Upshot for the Rest of the Class (2014 Edition)

[irishfan]

- I'm not saying that this isn't a good class, because it is. It just could have been so much better.

No, I completely agree. There are so many "what if's" in this class, obviously on offense with Hood and Starks we could have added two more difference makers. I just think its a solid class considering the year we had and the terrible, terrible offseason we were coming off of. If we can keep Hill, add either Cage or Sawyers, get TA, and add IM/Quick then I'll be pretty ecstatic with this class overall.

Personally, I think we lose Hill, add IM, Alexander, and one of the DTs and we end up with around the #10 recruiting class. Not terrible, and could end up being a better class than anticipated with some of the under-the-radar 3-stars.

 

[stlnd01]

It's true this class lacks star power.
Unless we land JuJu or somehow Malik McDowell or Solomon Thomas or Damien Mama pops out of nowhere, we won't have a 247 Composite 5-Star or even Top 50 recruit (Morgan is 53rd, Quick 56th, Nelson 62nd). Don't know when the last time that happened would have been, but it's been awhile.
That said, there's a lot of talented depth in this bunch, and it fills some big needs in our program. And if we don't lose a bunch (a la the Class of '12) and if some of the high-three/low-four types pan out, it could be quite a good class two or three years down the road, which is when it matters. I'll take it.

 

[CraigKrenzel]

Yes and no. There is no doubt that higher rated prospects from HS are more likely to get drafted in the 1st round of the NFL draft. Star Power: How recruiting rankings hold up at the top of the NFL Draft - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

So for rough calculations for the period of 2007 - 2011 using the provided link.
5* 13% were drafter in the first round
4* 3.8% were drafted in the first round
3* .8%
2* .3%

So I would say that while it is hard to know exactly which recruits will pan out, there is no denying that the higher rated a prospect is the greater their chance of becoming a first round pick. So in theory the more higher rated prospects you sign the better their chance of being better. Obviously you can never fully know how good as class is till 3-4 years later but that doesn't change the fact that the higher ranked your recruits are (which will raise your team's ranking) the better chance of the turning out to be great players.

Now to the assumptions I made in this post. First I understand that being in the first round is not a guarantee of a great college career and likewise many very good college football players do not get drafted in the first round.
2nd. The article used for both recruiting and drafting the time period of 2007-211 which doesn't make a whole lot of sense since the players drafted in 2007 don't overlap with the recruiting class shown, but it was the best I had to work with.

I'm only really arguing that if you're in the top 10 of a service's class rankings, you've done good work - at least according to Rivals, 247, etc. Right now we're ranked 10, 8, 6, and 11 depending on which service you subscribe to.

I won't say you can't criticize a class or the staff's job until 3-4 years down the road, because where's the fun in that. (And certainly there are times where it's abundantly clear the ball was dropped.) But rating is such an inexact science that to really worry over the positioning of the top 10 outside of say, Alabama... seems a bit off, no?

In any case, there are still 10 days till NSD. Things can get much worse or much better

 

[Irish YJ]

Purely my opinion, but this is not one of BK and Alford's best jobs. Heistand did a wonderful job, the rest so-so.....

"I'll take it" from a kid perspective. Lots of good prospects, that seem like fantastic young men.

"I'll leave it" from a recruiting perspective. Not going to debate the details, but there was a lot to be questioned from a "timing" perspective (offers).

I do believe success will improve our recruiting this year, but I do think BK/Alford need to step up their game, and perhaps make some strategy and methodology changes.

I also believe that BVG will kill it,,,,,, and drastically improve both our front 7 recruiting in general, and also our ability to pull the southern studs away from the SEC.

 

[stlnd01]

I also believe that BVG will kill it,,,,,, and drastically improve both our front 7 recruiting in general, and also our ability to pull the southern studs away from the SEC.

We'll see. Pulling stud front seven guys out of the South is hard. Getting them to stick is even harder. Stephon Tuitt and Louis Nix don't grow on trees (they'd break the branches, for one thing). I don't know what we do about it, because the South's where the best d linemen get made. But it's always a tough pull for us for a variety of reasons, and lack of trying isn't really one of them.

I agree though that something didn't quite go right this cycle. We pulled Morgan out of nowhere. Lost Hood through no fault of our own. But in all it's like we overcorrected from the problems that led to all those defections in 2012, and without the great season we had last year to pull in some top kids late (like Bryant, Folston, Redfield). Still, with the right coaching, there's plenty of good ballplayers in this class.

 

[Grahambo]

We'll see. Pulling stud front seven guys out of the South is hard. Getting them to stick is even harder. Stephon Tuitt and Louis Nix don't grow on trees (they'd break the branches, for one thing). I don't know what we do about it, because the South's where the best d linemen get made. But it's always a tough pull for us for a variety of reasons, and lack of trying isn't really one of them.

I agree though that something didn't quite go right this cycle. We pulled Morgan out of nowhere. Lost Hood through no fault of our own. But in all it's like we overcorrected from the problems that led to all those defections in 2012, and without the great season we had last year to pull in some top kids late (like Bryant, Folston, Redfield). Still, with the right coaching, there's plenty of good ballplayers in this class.

Maybe this is WAY too obvious but consistent winning will cure most ailments. It's been stated many times that the kids that we are/will be going after are kids that don't know the ND like most of us do. Consistent winning has been a problem the past 2 decades and that's all the football they know.

BK and JS have this program heading in the right direction; full steam ahead. It's gone slowly because rebuilding is a slow process, ESPECIALLY in college. Between the BCS title game, UA deal, stadium upgrades and winning, things are looking bright. Just gotta keep the course and as a fan, just stay patient and trust BK, JS and company.

 

[Irishman77]

Maybe this is WAY too obvious but consistent winning will cure most ailments. It's been stated many times that the kids that we are/will be going after are kids that don't know the ND like most of us do. Consistent winning has been a problem the past 2 decades and that's all the football they know.

BK and JS have this program heading in the right direction; full steam ahead. It's gone slowly because rebuilding is a slow process, ESPECIALLY in college. Between the BCS title game, UA deal, stadium upgrades and winning, things are looking bright. Just gotta keep the course and as a fan, just stay patient and trust BK, JS and company.

Progress was phenomenal until the qb situation got derailed. 15 class will be our best class ever!

Schedule next year looks brutal when looking at it through a Rees lens. Golson will dominate!

 

[jcun]

If Notre Dame was for everyone then it wouldn't be Notre Dame.

 

[Goldedommer44]

I just can't believe people are upset about this class. We have another top 10 class and people are saying BK isn't doing his job? Come on guys seriously? You could look at every class in the country and see top notch kids they missed out on or came late to the party to offer or talk too. Every school has kids that decommit . Please stop thinking this is a ND problem. They are 17/18 year old kids who change there mind s every day.

 

[irishff1014]

I just can't believe people are upset about this class. We have another top 10 class and people are saying BK isn't doing his job? Come on guys seriously? You could look at every class in the country and see top notch kids they missed out on or came late to the party to offer or talk too. Every school has kids that decommit . Please stop thinking this is a ND problem. They are 17/18 year old kids who change there mind s every day.

I am happy with this class. We have a few players in this class that can be really solid players. It isn't what i thought it would look like but oh well i can't change that. Should be intresting to see how things fall the rest of the way.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Maybe this is WAY too obvious but consistent winning will cure most ailments. It's been stated many times that the kids that we are/will be going after are kids that don't know the ND like most of us do. Consistent winning has been a problem the past 2 decades and that's all the football they know.

BK and JS have this program heading in the right direction; full steam ahead. It's gone slowly because rebuilding is a slow process, ESPECIALLY in college. Between the BCS title game, UA deal, stadium upgrades and winning, things are looking bright. Just gotta keep the course and as a fan, just stay patient and trust BK, JS and company.

Here's my problem. Most schools are like this. It's hard to consistently win. You want to tell me Tennessee has been consistently winning year in and year out? How about UCLA? The last two years, the Bruins have gone 19-8. Good, but nothing to write home about. Before that, they were mediocre at best under Neuheisel and Dorrell. Something just doesn't seem right. Recruits are very fickle nowadays. They want the easy way to the league, and don't think about the consequences of choosing the easy way. Sure, there are plenty that are willing to put in the work to become a more well rounded individual. Pretty much all of ND's commits are in that mold. Problem is that there are a lot of these recruits that simply want the fastest route to a payday that may or may not come. "We ain't come here to play school".

 

[Crazy Balki]

I just can't believe people are upset about this class. We have another top 10 class and people are saying BK isn't doing his job? Come on guys seriously? You could look at every class in the country and see top notch kids they missed out on or came late to the party to offer or talk too. Every school has kids that decommit . Please stop thinking this is a ND problem. They are 17/18 year old kids who change there mind s every day.

I don't think this is a Notre Dame problem. In fact, this is an "every other school minus ND, Stanford, NW, Vandy, etc." problem. Schools like Alabama, Florida State, Georgia, USC and many others are what's wrong with college football today. Heck, give Texas credit, at least Charlie Strong is trying to enforce standards on his players (though if he follows through with it remains to be seen). They lower the academic bar so low, just so they can get high-level recruits to come as a stepping stone to the league. The SEC, for the most part, is comprised of nothing but overglorified semi-pro teams. Obviously, for each school, there are exceptions, but for the most part, it's just 5-star athletes getting by with less than acceptable marks and less than acceptable behavior just because they are winning games. It's great that Notre Dame doesn't stoop to their level, and that there are still players out there that strive for excellence on AND OFF the field. I really hope that somebody finally cracks down on the academic lethargy going on in most of the BCS powerhouses of today. These STUDENT-athletes need to realize that going to class and investing in your education isn't an option, you are OBLIGATED TO DO IT!

 

[pkt77242]

I just can't believe people are upset about this class. We have another top 10 class and people are saying BK isn't doing his job? Come on guys seriously? You could look at every class in the country and see top notch kids they missed out on or came late to the party to offer or talk too. Every school has kids that decommit . Please stop thinking this is a ND problem. They are 17/18 year old kids who change there mind s every day.

I don't think that people are upset with this class, but some of us are disappointed with this class, based on what could have been. There are the fish that got away (Hood, Dickerson, Yeargin and possibly Hill), there are the too late offers (Hubbard, and possibly Cage), and then there are the we were in it early and it might have looked good for a while but we ultimately lost out (Juju, and possibly Quick and/or IM). Now you have a couple of those each class but this class is slightly disappointing at this point. That could change though with a strong finish of Cage, Alexander, Quick and Juju and we would all fall back madly in love with this class (non-homo), or even that finish minus Juju would make a lot of people happy.

 

[GBdomer]

It's a good class don't get me wrong but it could have been great.It's not as good as I thought it would be in a nutshell

 

[dublinirish]

not enough Aaron Lynch or Gunenr Kiel types in this class. Do not Want

 

[rocket66]

Jesus, more doom and gloom. The class isn't complete yet! Let's wait until NSD to cry in your Cheerios.

 

[connect the dots]

I don't think this is a Notre Dame problem. In fact, this is an "every other school minus ND, Stanford, NW, Vandy, etc." problem. Schools like Alabama, Florida State, Georgia, USC and many others are what's wrong with college football today. Heck, give Texas credit, at least Charlie Strong is trying to enforce standards on his players (though if he follows through with it remains to be seen). They lower the academic bar so low, just so they can get high-level recruits to come as a stepping stone to the league. The SEC, for the most part, is comprised of nothing but overglorified semi-pro teams. Obviously, for each school, there are exceptions, but for the most part, it's just 5-star athletes getting by with less than acceptable marks and less than acceptable behavior just because they are winning games. It's great that Notre Dame doesn't stoop to their level, and that there are still players out there that strive for excellence on AND OFF the field. I really hope that somebody finally cracks down on the academic lethargy going on in most of the BCS powerhouses of today. These STUDENT-athletes need to realize that going to class and investing in your education isn't an option, you are OBLIGATED TO DO IT!

Perfect paradigm of preaching to the choir! You can head back to the sacristy and take off your vestments. Your congregation is filing out the doors, leaving a nave echoing of flat sounding words. The platitudes of your sermon are about to be erased by a world where experience is the best teacher.

 

[BeauBenken]

- Hill, by his own previous comments, is gone if he visits UT. That's just my opinion.
- I'm not sold that loading up on project DT's is a huge plus.
- Go read JuJu's thread. If we landed him, it would be the biggest surprise I ever saw in recruiting. Every single sign points to USC. It's one of those situations where I would love to say, "crazier things have happened". But in regards to positive surprises, they haven't.
- I'm not saying that this isn't a good class, because it is. It just could have been so much better.

I think you underestimate some of these guys abilities. Or you overestimate the importance of their abilities.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I don't think this is a Notre Dame problem. In fact, this is an "every other school minus ND, Stanford, NW, Vandy, etc." problem. Schools like Alabama, Florida State, Georgia, USC and many others are what's wrong with college football today. Heck, give Texas credit, at least Charlie Strong is trying to enforce standards on his players (though if he follows through with it remains to be seen). They lower the academic bar so low, just so they can get high-level recruits to come as a stepping stone to the league. The SEC, for the most part, is comprised of nothing but overglorified semi-pro teams. Obviously, for each school, there are exceptions, but for the most part, it's just 5-star athletes getting by with less than acceptable marks and less than acceptable behavior just because they are winning games. It's great that Notre Dame doesn't stoop to their level, and that there are still players out there that strive for excellence on AND OFF the field. I really hope that somebody finally cracks down on the academic lethargy going on in most of the BCS powerhouses of today. These STUDENT-athletes need to realize that going to class and investing in your education isn't an option, you are OBLIGATED TO DO IT!

There are plenty of scholar athletes every year coming out of high school. Plenty enough to fill a recruiting class with solid 3,4, and 5 star players. So you can only beat that horse for a while. The problem with the Irish IMO is not a lack of having enough players to recruit... it is more of an image problem. It is hard for ND to come to the South and pluck players away. Players that have grown up cheering for their favorite school, live and breathe on every play in the big games, and have generations of family that have been fans. The network colleges have built with the high schools in the South is tremendous. And it is hard to break that wall down. ND has had some success in Florida, but moving into all the different states in the South will be difficult at best.

Now, every year there are plenty of players that only want to go to college in order to showcase their talent and eventually play in the NFL. And the schools in the SEC, ACC, Big 12, and Pac 12 etc have their fair share. But, ND has also seen an increase in players leaving early for the draft so they are not exempt from the conversation either. BK has recruited, and continues to recruit, players that may be somewhat suspect on the academic side. McKenzie this year is a prime example. And for every Irish fan that detests this type of recruiting, there is another Irish fan that says BK should do it more.

 

[aubeirish]

I don't understand what the beef with this class is? It is very strong. There is talent across the board. It is very blue-collar and they seem to have a great bond between each others. It also fills a lot of needs. I don't know guys, maybe my pink glasses are clouding my vision.

 

[Irish YJ]

I don't understand what the beef with this class is? It is very strong. There is talent across the board. It is very blue-collar and they seem to have a great bond between each others. It also fills a lot of needs. I don't know guys, maybe my pink glasses are clouding my vision.

I would describe this class as solid. From an ND perspective, it is good and fills several needs. From a BCS (now playoffs) perspective, it's blue collar, and lacks top talent in playmaking areas. The O-line is terrific, however O-line is not sexy.

As I said earlier, not BK and Alford's best job. HH killed it though.

If Golson returns and kills it, sexy will follow. This year's schedule is a beast. If we can win 10 with a few good upset wins, I think a buzz will again be created. I also envision the D playing with a new nastier attitude which could help increase the sexy.

 

[aubeirish]

I would describe this class as solid. From an ND perspective, it is good and fills several needs. From a BCS (now playoffs) perspective, it's blue collar, and lacks top talent in playmaking areas. The O-line is terrific, however O-line is not sexy.

Front seven recruiting == Strong. (Lots of bodies and potential with some elite guys)
O-line recruiting == The best

Trenches == Mission complete if you ask me.

Solid QB ... checked

Great receivers / playmakers ... Checked, class is not over with.

No RB. Hood would have been nice, but not needed.

Strong kicker. Check

Secondary, elite corner. Alexander would be very welcome.

TE ... Check.

This class is a great compliment to last year's class.

 

[NDohio]

Front seven recruiting == Strong. (Lots of bodies and potential with some elite guys)
O-line recruiting == The best

Trenches == Mission complete if you ask me.

Solid QB ... checked

Great receivers / playmakers ... Checked, class is not over with.

No RB. Hood would have been nice, but not needed per say.

Strong kicker. Check

Secondary, elite corner. Alexander would be very welcome.

TE ... Check.

This class is a great compliment to last year's class.

I was working on something similar and kept getting interrupted. I agree, I know that there hasn't been that absolute WOW guy commit this year(Hood would have been that guy) but this year's class is very, very solid.

Think back a month and a half ago and remember the stress we all had about the lack of LBs in this class - now that is a strength.

IMO with Brent already here and McKenzie on the threshold this could really be a strong class that compliments last year's haul in a great way.

And remember, Greg Bryant is essentially a part of this class.

I am really excited about this class.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't understand what the beef with this class is? It is very strong. There is talent across the board. It is very blue-collar and they seem to have a great bond between each others. It also fills a lot of needs. I don't know guys, maybe my pink glasses are clouding my vision.

This class is amazing in my book when coupled with '13 as long as we pick up a return man, hold on to Hill, and add another DT. Everything else is gravy. You're talking about almost an NFL roster worth of prospects the vast majority of which are industry composite 4 guys. For the most part, hits all needs with high talent, right mindset type players. Can't ask for much more than that.

 

[Luckylucci]

This class is amazing in my book when coupled with '13 as long as we pick up a return man, hold on to Hill, and add another DT. Everything else is gravy. You're talking about almost an NFL roster worth of prospects the vast majority of which are industry composite 4 guys. For the most part, hits all needs with high talent, right mindset type players. Can't ask for much more than that.

Yep, 100% with this. Obviously some work to be done but there is a lot to like. I think some maybe undervaluing the fact that we are signing the Nyles Morgan. C'mon fellas this could be our star ILB for the next 3-4 years ala Jaylon Smith for the middle.

 

[aubeirish]

I was working on something similar and kept getting interrupted. I agree, I know that there hasn't been that absolute WOW guy commit this year(Hood would have been that guy) but this year's class is very, very solid.

Think back a month and a half ago and remember the stress we all had about the lack of LBs in this class - now that is a strength.

IMO with Brent already here and McKenzie on the threshold this could really be a strong class that compliments last year's haul in a great way.

And remember, Greg Bryant is essentially a part of this class.

I am really excited about this class.

Haha, wished I had time to make a better list. Just a busy morning right now. Justin Brent is one of the best receiver in the nation. He dominated the camps. He is tall and physically looks like a college senior. Corey Holmes is a copy cat of TJ(I take that any day). MacKenzie would add another dimension. Trumbetti is one of the finest DE out there. He proved it at the UA game. Morgan is awesome. I could go on and on. Lots of guys to love in that class.

 

[IrishLax]

Yep, 100% with this. Obviously some work to be done but there is a lot to like. I think some maybe undervaluing the fact that we are signing the Nyles Morgan. C'mon fellas this could be our star ILB for the next 3-4 years ala Jaylon Smith for the middle.

19/23 players in 2013 were composite 4 guys or better. Those that weren't were Robinson, Kinlaw, Deeb, Matuska. A lot to like in all of those guys.

15/21 players in 2012 are composite 4 guys. Obviously, lacks the star power of Jaylon Smith, Max Redfield, etc. but the core is very strong. The 3 players are Hill, Bonner, Sykes, Martini, Williams, Mokwuah. A lot to like in all of those guys as well.

Combined, you're looking at 34/44 players being 4 caliber with a couple gem 5 types from 2013. That's awesome.

 

[aubeirish]

19/23 players in 2013 were composite 4 guys or better. Those that weren't were Robinson, Kinlaw, Deeb, Matuska. A lot to like in all of those guys.

15/21 players in 2012 are composite 4 guys. Obviously, lacks the star power of Jaylon Smith, Max Redfield, etc. but the core is very strong. The 3 players are Hill, Bonner, Sykes, Martini, Williams, Mokwuah. A lot to like in all of those guys as well.

Combined, you're looking at 34/44 players being 4 caliber with a couple gem 5 types from 2013. That's awesome.

Stars don't lie, haha.

I agree though. This is awesome.

 

[woolybug25]

Front seven recruiting == Strong. (Lots of bodies and potential with some elite guys)
O-line recruiting == The best

Trenches == Mission complete if you ask me.

Solid QB ... checked

Great receivers / playmakers ... Checked, class is not over with.

No RB. Hood would have been nice, but not needed per say.

Strong kicker. Check

Secondary, elite corner. Alexander would be very welcome.

TE ... Check.

This class is a great compliment to last year's class.

I wouldn't call Alexander "elite". He is a very good prospect, but I wouldn't put him in the same "elite" class as say... Adoree Jackson.

We don't have an "elite" prospect in this class in my opinion. Niles Morgan is probably the closest, but he probaly is just under the "elite" level. There is no Stephon Tuitt in this class, which is ok, We cant really expect that every year. That being said, those elite prospects are what take a class from good or very good.... to great.

In many of our opinions... this class is a good class. It's not great. It compliments our team well and is deep. There's nothing wrong with that.
_________________________________________________________________

For those that think this will be a top ten class by NSD, you may be mistaken. If we lose Hill and don't land at least one of IM, Quick or Alexander (it's quite possible we miss on all of them), then this class will probably not be a consensus top 10 class. Not with the remaining guys left on the board and the schools that are favorites for them. Teams like Ole Miss (11), Georgia (12) and Florida (13) all have as many or more recruits looking their way. In fact, I would argue that all three have potential to pass us right now.

For instance, USC is #30 on 247. USC leads for JuJu, Mama and possibly Adoree. They are only 222 points behind us (including Hill). If they added all of the above, then even they have room to pass us. That's how much things can change on NSD.

We have a good class though. Who cares if its 15 and not 10. But just wanted to clarify that.

 

[aubeirish]

I was actually talking about Watkins. I love his game.