ND MBB 2013-14 season

[PerthDomer]

I graduated in 2011. Every year I was at ND attendance got worse and the problem has continued. Now no one shows up for bracket buster type mid majors (NDSU, ISU) and last year the non marquee BE games weren't even getting student support. I don't know what's going on, but it's getting bad.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Alright, so Brey gets fired. What kind of upstart coach are you going to try and get

Not my job, that's Swarbrick's. Noticing that Brey isn't getting it done is a different issue than naming his successor.

to a school that barely gives basketball a pass? They share a practice facility with club teams and have dwindling support.

I cannot speak on this matter. It is surprising, if true, that Swarbrick wouldn't give Brey everything he needs. Sharing a basketball court doesn't seem like the craziest thing though.

I'm not giving Brey a pass, but just curious who you think could come in and do a comparable job at a football focused school?

Yeah...but is Ohio State a football-focused school? Is Michigan a football-focused school? Is Michigan State a basketball-focused school?

I don't like the idea that you can't do well at both. We know that Notre Dame will never be destination for the one-and-down NBA guys, but that's the only serious disadvantage that is excusable.

I look at the Top 25 rankings, and of course Notre Dame is not a Duke/North Carolina/Kansas/Kentucky/Michigan State/Louisville/Ohio State level school, but I cannot accept that Notre Dame can't have what Villanova, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Iowa State, etc have.

I'm more inclined to wait and see how he can do with a roster full of 4/5 star players over the next couple of years before jumping on that bandwagon.

This was the lineup against Ohio State, and the two players are Grant and Connaughton. There is sufficient talent to do better.

G: #17 PG #66 OVR
G: #29 SG #105 OVR
G: #9 PG #38 OVR
F: #29 SF #128 OVR
C: #10 C #75 OVR

F: #23 PF #97 OVR
F: #NR #NR

 

[LoveThee]

I was at the game against Ohio State... It may as well have been an OSU home game based on the fan support

 

[KPENN]

Yeah...but is Ohio State a football-focused school? Is Michigan a football-focused school? Is Michigan State a basketball-focused school?

R

To this point, Florida has won back to back titles, Texas has had a pretty good run of late. You can be good at both..

 

[Buster Bluth]

Next year's lineup should resemble:

G: #9 PG #38 OVR | Jackson
G: #29 SG #105 OVR | Grant?
G/F: ???
G/F: #29 PF #128 OVR | Connaughton
F: #23 PF #97 OVR | Auguste

With Beachem, Vasturia, and Biedscheid battling for the other spot. Another year of a pretty damn athletic lineup. That should be a top 15 team, just like this year and last year should have been.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I was at the game against Ohio State... It may as well have been an OSU home game based on the fan support

Yeah I was stunned at that. It was like 75% Ohio State fans.

 

[NDdomer2]

serious question because i don't know but do any of you think that the number of basketball players that nd could accept is lower than what's available for football. (obviously by % cuz of number on team/field etc)

 

[PerthDomer]

ND admissions are more stringent for bball than football (Football is the goose that lays the golden egg, plus lose 1 bball player and your APR tanks). It's difficult to recruit with our facilities that were antiquated when Brey got here, plus the lack of financial support for assistant coaches that can recruit.

The reason we lose come tourney time is generally our lack of future NBA guys who can create offense by themselves. Grant is the only guy we've had recently that can do that, Hansbrough a while back. Without those guys you need shooting to open up the lanes on offense when you face athletic teams come tourney time (we usually go cold). Next year asuming Grant comes back we have Jackson and Grant for that plus hopefully Connaughton(please no MLB), an improved Biedschied, and hopefully an Auguste who is functional on O.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The early tourney exits are a concern and I'm not giving Brey a pass, but just curious who you think could come in and do a comparable job at a football focused school?

Anyone I would think. There are mid-major coaches who do 1000 times more with less. Tommy Amaker has beat a top 11 seed with Harvard. That's something Mike Brey hasn't done since 2003. Mike Brey's best tournament win since 2003 was against a 12 seed George Mason. Then, in typical Brey fashion, ND went and got slaughtered by Washington State in the next round.

Mike Brey has routinely had no defense at all. 07-08 was the last time Notre Dame had a top 50 defense. Since then, only one team with a defense outside of the top 50 has made the Final Four. That was VCU in 2011, and their defense had a bad ranking because of its unorthodox style that couldn't be properly judged through efficiency stats. There is no way a team with a defense like that can win consistently in elimination games. When your defense is on the side of teams like UC Riverside, it doesn't matter how good your center is. You will eventually lose in the tournament.

So who would be a good head coach? Jim Crews for SLU has one of the best defenses in the country. He's from the Midwest and has coached at both Indiana and Evansville. ND could definitely pay him more than SLU. Derek Kellogg from UMass might be a tough pull away from his alma mater, but it would definitely be a step up. Michael White at Louisiana Tech is a name to look out for. No tourney success yet, but he's rebuilt a once-solid program. Chris Mooney at Richmond has had success in the past. Marvin Menzies at New Mexico State will be a big name.

Why just look at head coaches? It is rare, but top assistants can have success places as well. LaVall Jordan for Michigan is long overdue for a good coaching job. Jeff Capel had success at Oklahoma before a tumultuous ending, but more time under Coach K will definitely help. Travis Steele for Xavier is young but a future star head coach and recruiter. It would be risky hiring an outside assistant, but these guys can recruit and have been a part of winning teams recently, which is more than Brey can say.

Basically, there are so many better options than someone who has failed time after time after time like Brey.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

"Lack of future NBA guys"

Wichita State made the Final Four last year with Cleanthony Early as their best player. Not projected to be drafted this year.

Marquette made the Elite 8 last year. Their top players were Vander Blue (playing in Israel), Davante Gardner (not projected to be drafted), and Jamil Wilson (not projected to be drafted).

2011: Butler makes the national championship game. Shelvin Mack, their second best player, is the only one in the NBA. He was a 2nd round pick and a backup PG. VCU makes it to the Final Four. Jamie Skeen is in Italy and Bradford Burgess is in Belgium.

2010: West Virginia makes the Final Four. Only Devin Ebanks ever played in the NBA, and he had a short career before falling to the D-League. Duke won the national championship that year. Nolan Smith was their most used player, and he's in Croatia. Kyle Singler made the NBA after two years in Europe. Jon Scheyer isn't even playing pro basketball. The Plumlees were big men who didn't do much offensively that year.

It does not take lottery picks to win in the tournament. It takes good defense, not turning the ball over, and being a good rebounding team.

 

[NDPhilly]

Anyone know when spring practice starts?

 

[Irish#1]

"Lack of future NBA guys"

Wichita State made the Final Four last year with Cleanthony Early as their best player. Not projected to be drafted this year.

Marquette made the Elite 8 last year. Their top players were Vander Blue (playing in Israel), Davante Gardner (not projected to be drafted), and Jamil Wilson (not projected to be drafted).

2011: Butler makes the national championship game. Shelvin Mack, their second best player, is the only one in the NBA. He was a 2nd round pick and a backup PG. VCU makes it to the Final Four. Jamie Skeen is in Italy and Bradford Burgess is in Belgium.

2010: West Virginia makes the Final Four. Only Devin Ebanks ever played in the NBA, and he had a short career before falling to the D-League. Duke won the national championship that year. Nolan Smith was their most used player, and he's in Croatia. Kyle Singler made the NBA after two years in Europe. Jon Scheyer isn't even playing pro basketball. The Plumlees were big men who didn't do much offensively that year.

It does not take lottery picks to win in the tournament. It takes good defense, not turning the ball over, and being a good rebounding team.

How could you forget Gordan Hayward? His half court shot damn near beat Duke. However, in support of your statement, neither Hayward or Mack were recruited by the big schools and weren't highly rated coming out of HS. Butler has a great program in place that goes back a long ways. They always hire from within and each of these coaches (Collier, Matta, Lickliter & Stevens) has had enough success at Butler to get hired away. Each of those coaches knew how to develop talent that the top schools wanted. It looks like Miller is doing the same now that he has replaced Stevens.

If there is lack of support and poor facilities, I think you need a young coach who has the energy to fight these battles. If Brey wanted to work a little harder, I think he could get any needed upgrades and recruit better. I just think he's too comfortable in his position.

 

[TK22867]

How could you forget Gordan Hayward? His half court shot damn near beat Duke.

That was 2010. He referenced 2011. Hayward was not on that team.

 

[connor_in]

Heck...who's the next 23 yr old coach out of Butler?
What about Mike Lightfoot at tiny Bethel College just down the road in Mishawaka...he is alway competing for NAIA championships

Under Lightfoot’s watch, the Pilots have won three NAIA and four NCCAA national championships, 17 Crossroads League regular season and tournament titles, have made ten NAIA and nine NCCAA national championship tournament appearances and have won nearly 700 games.

 

[Woneone]

The one thing Brey has been able to do is rally the troops after something like this (Abro/'Gody).

Give him this year and next. IF Grant comes back next year, and Pat decides to keep with Basketball (although, probably a hard sell without Grant), we should have no excuse. He fails then, send him packing.

But I have a feeling the loss of Grant basically buys him at least another year.

 

[NDdomer2]

Heck...who's the next 23 yr old coach out of Butler?
What about Mike Lightfoot at tiny Bethel College just down the road in Mishawaka...he is alway competing for NAIA championships

i know all about naia, bethel, etc.that jump wont happen. now i think lightfoot should be a d1 coach but maybe a mid major first.

 

[gkIrish]

Can anyone name ONE single major conference school that has had the same coach for the last 10 years or more that only made the sweet sixteen ONCE.

I'll wait.


If you do find ONE, then find me another (with the same coach) that has won only TWO tournament games in the last 10 years.

 

[NDdomer2]

Can anyone name ONE single major conference school that has had the same coach for the last 10 years or more that only made the sweet sixteen ONCE.

I'll wait.


If you do find ONE, then find me another that has won only TWO tournament games in the last 10 years.

we are not every major conference school. you seem to grasp that for football but not bball. i know you hate brey, we had an argument over him last year too iirc. my stance has shifted since then but not to the vitriol you carry.

change is now welcome in my book but it will come with it's lumps imo.

 

[gkIrish]

we are not every major conference school. you seem to grasp that for football but not bball. i know you hate brey, we had an argument over him last year too iirc. my stance has shifted since then but not to the vitriol you carry.

change is now welcome in my book but it will come with it's lumps imo.

I don't have the same expectations for basketball as I do football. Much more of a leash in basketball. But enough is enough.

The University owes it to its fans to TRY and do better. They might hire someone who does a poor job. But they could also hire someone who will do better. All I'm asking is that they recognize that Brey will never take us to another sweet sixteen and certainly not an elite eight. And since that's the case, they should try and hire someone with potential.

 

[PerthDomer]

I've found ndnation is much better for bball than Irishenvy. THis is tacked on the bball board there and is worth a read. https://docs.google.com/document/d/...dZeEWJzoJpM/edit?hl=en&authkey=COilzsAF&pli=1

 

[gkIrish]

Notre Dame player rips Doug Gottlieb for making fun of his beard | For The Win

Good for Sherman

 

[Rack Em]

The sport of basketball would be better off if Mike Brey was banned for life from coaching. Whatever happens is worth it if it gets Brey out of coaching.

 

[STLDomer]

It's official that Biedscheid is transferring.

 

[gkIrish]

It's official that Biedscheid is transferring.

lol

 

[NDPhilly]

Was he like failing out?

 

[NDGOLDEN]

This just went from bad to worse quickly

 

[FearTheBeard]

Wow haha thats icing on the cake

 

[NDPhilly]

Kid looked freaking anorexic

 

[gkIrish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Source at <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NotreDame&src=hash">#NotreDame</a> - Cameron is not on board with transfer. Buckle up folks.</p>— Tom Noie (@tnoieNDInsider) <a href="https://twitter.com/tnoieNDInsider/statuses/415234957296926720">December 23, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And this is getting weird

 

[Ignats]

Yes, basketball support has been dwindling. My freshman year was the year that we got up to #4 in the nation with Ben Hansbrough. The JACC did fill up that year and students would come out to pretty much all Big East games and when a big opponent would come in (Gonzaga). By this year, my senior year, I have see a clear decline in attendance over the years. The trend of student attendance is pretty much the same, but I can say that the student body's support of basketball has definitely dwindled. There's a marked lack of interest and many tickets are purchased by underclassmen rather than upperclassmen.

The demographics of people who show up to the games are interesting as well. From working security I can say that nearly 60-70% of the crowd consists of older, retired individuals who can afford tickets. The rest are middle aged families with kids, with little to no support from younger people in the South Bend area. General ticket prices are pretty ridiculous if you ask me and I've seen the general crowds for non-conference become smaller over the years.

Finally, to address the point of other schools being non-basketball schools... That's true, but the schools you mentioned are also large state schools. There are basically no academic requirements to battle for recruiting and in general. I liked the post that mentioned specific coaches who could recruit and do well with talent and maybe you're right that it's time for someone else with a different vision to take over. I just wanted to see if anyone had any alternatives other than simply saying "FIRE BREY NOW"