'14 TX LB Kolin Hill (Texas Tech Transfer)

[Emcee77]

I don't think the staff will fill the class up with depth guys like this though, not yet. We just want to get a couple more high-upside guys for depth purposes, and then we will focus on guys with star power to round out the class. It's not really feasible to do it the opposite way, since so many elite players don't make final decisions until late in the cycle or even on NSD, so by the time they decide we won't have time to scramble. I think the staff is just being prudent by getting the depth guys first, and then it will push for the stars. If things go as planned, then in December and January we can full-court-press guys like Nyles Morgan or other stars who we don't even know we have a shot at at this point in the cycle (a la Eddie Vanderdoes or Greg Bryant), without having to worry about depth.

I don't believe this. What star linebackers are we in it with?

See the bolded in my original post. I wasn't saying we are necessarily in it with any stars; just that I'm sure that, this early in the cycle, we will leave room for them. It was only at or after this time last year that we got involved with Bryant or Vanderdoes. This is not a desperation offer; it's a project offer. We may make desperation offers this cycle, but not this early.

On film he looks like a crafty pass rusher with really long arms who uses his hands well. I like the offer.

 

[dublinirish]

Good point. Especially important for LBs defeating blocks... something no one has been able to do consistently (not even Manti) for years.

Manti plays with T-Rex arms way too much, half the time he engages with his facecage first and then his arms. I would be excited if Hill were Irish, there is alot to work with there.

 

[Pachuco]

I wouldn't use the word whiffing though.

This^

Wooly, your perspective is always appreciated, but I'm going to have to agree that Kolin looks like a player coming into his own with major upswing. His film was fun to watch. Of the prospects recently offered, I think he's a good take now. If we lock him down early, does that mean we are down and out for any remaining elite ILB prospects on our board?

 

[woolybug25]

When have I said that I "don't like" Kolin? I have done no such thing. Shoot, I still haven't even watched his tape.

That isn't my point at all. My point was that I don't like the strategy of trying to fill "absolutely need" with 3 star depth while we are asleep at the wheel with every major recruit at the position. I mean for real, the only LB recruit we are even in on is Niles Morgan and that is a HUGE longshot. Meanwhile, this is a huge need for our team. Our current depth at the position is 3 star project type guys.

Maybe instead of waiting until the last bye to shoot out a billion 3 star offers, they should have offered more elite guys from the beginning. Then, if you aren't getting a lot of love, you can fill in with depth "project" guys. But this class, which seems to be the norm with BK, they are simply not offering anyone early and scrambling at the end. It's a bad strategy that leads to missing on good project guys like Hubbard, and having late defections (ala Greenberry, Darby, Vanderdoes, etc).

You don't just "put the full court press" on elite guys at the end and expect great results.

 

[ThePiombino]

I am not trying to be negative at all. However if the film was so impressive why are the FOOTBALL schools of Texas not noticing him. Or Oklahoma schools that's their back yard.

Texas didn't offer Jameis Winston so he must not be athletic either, huh?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

 

[irishff1014]

Texas didn't offer Jameis Winston so he must not be athletic either, huh?

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I would say his offer list speaks for itself.

 

[Luckylucci]

When have I said that I "don't like" Kolin? I have done no such thing. Shoot, I still haven't even watched his tape.

That isn't my point at all. My point was that I don't like the strategy of trying to fill "absolutely need" with 3 star depth while we are asleep at the wheel with every major recruit at the position. I mean for real, the only LB recruit we are even in on is Niles Morgan and that is a HUGE longshot. Meanwhile, this is a huge need for our team. Our current depth at the position is 3 star project type guys.

Maybe instead of waiting until the last bye to shoot out a billion 3 star offers, they should have offered more elite guys from the beginning. Then, if you aren't getting a lot of love, you can fill in with depth "project" guys. But this class, which seems to be the norm with BK, they are simply not offering anyone early and scrambling at the end. It's a bad strategy that leads to missing on good project guys like Hubbard, and having late defections (ala Greenberry, Darby, Vanderdoes, etc).

You don't just "put the full court press" on elite guys at the end and expect great results.

Saying that we haven't offered enough elite prospects early enough is flat out wrong. Sorry but no other way to put it. Take a look at the top 15 ILB's and we've offered a majority of those kids. We tried to get Kain Daub and Kenny young on campus this summer and they didn't want to. We recruited Clifton Garrett for over 1 year he doesn't want to. We've had the full court press on Nyles Morgan for as long as he'll listen and so far little traction. Ferns, Whitley, Mouhon were offered with the later coming to campus then shortly after choosing another school. Last cycle we spent a ton of resources on what the services thought was a 5 star ILB (alex anzalone), and he went to Florida. Your post is about lack of effort "asleep at the wheel" is just not reality. Could the result be better obviously but thats not because lack of effort.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

Is his offer "committable"?

I do not understand why this kid with his offer list do not make the commit immediatly.

 

[Luckylucci]

Is his offer "committable"?

I do not understand why this kid with his offer list do not make the commit immediatly.

I don't have an answer to your question but I can say that his brother may play a role in his decision. I found a local article about the two and how playing together was very important. I have tried to find more but it's pretty tough. It might play a bigger role than us being ND and the others being Colorado/Boise State, something at least to follow.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

@TomLoy247 25min
@KoLiNHill45 follow back real quick

ahaha

 

[woolybug25]

Saying that we haven't offered enough elite prospects early enough is flat out wrong. Sorry but no other way to put it. Take a look at the top 15 ILB's and we've offered a majority of those kids. We tried to get Kain Daub and Kenny young on campus this summer and they didn't want to. We recruited Clifton Garrett for over 1 year he doesn't want to. We've had the full court press on Nyles Morgan for as long as he'll listen and so far little traction. Ferns, Whitley, Mouhon were offered with the later coming to campus then shortly after choosing another school. Last cycle we spent a ton of resources on what the services thought was a 5 star ILB (alex anzalone), and he went to Florida. Your post is about lack of effort "asleep at the wheel" is just not reality. Could the result be better obviously but thats not because lack of effort.

We didn't offer all of those guys early in the cycle, we offered them, but not all of them out of the gate. Furthermore, you are proving my point that they aren't getting it done with LB recruiting. Guys like McMillan, Morgan, etc are all local kids that we aren't pulling (hopefully i'm wrong on Morgan).

Funny you mention Anzalone. Would you rather miss on a 5 star kid that you put a lot of effort into or a 3 star kid committed to Purdue that you put a lot of effort into?

You can come in late and get these types of guys and we are failing at LB recruiting. Those are two facts.

 

[Luckylucci]

Offering in the spring and summer before their senior ears is the right way to do it and if you don't agree ask Texas. Their recruiting problem is they lock up the best sophomores and juniors in Texas that don't end up being the best seniors. Fact it's ILB that's the problem not all LB's and your right the result isn't there but it's not because of lack of effort. If you actsully follow timelines and events you wouldn't try to say that. So if your upset about results what's your solution? Thats a better topic for discussion? Offer earlier? Earlier than right after their junior seasons?

 

[woolybug25]

Offering in the spring and summer before their senior ears is the right way to do it and if you don't agree ask Texas. Their recruiting problem is they lock up the best sophomores and juniors in Texas that don't end up being the best seniors. Fact it's ILB that's the problem not all LB's and your right the result isn't there but it's not because of lack of effort. If you actsully follow timelines and events you wouldn't try to say that. So if your upset about results what's your solution? Thats a better topic for discussion? Offer earlier? Earlier than right after their junior seasons?

Or just effing land them. If you can't land them by offering later, then try earlier. Vice versa. Whatever, I don't care as long as you land them.

Which, again… we are not.

 

[Irishbounty28]

We didn't offer all of those guys early in the cycle, we offered them, but not all of them out of the gate. Furthermore, you are proving my point that they aren't getting it done with LB recruiting. Guys like McMillan, Morgan, etc are all local kids that we aren't pulling (hopefully i'm wrong on Morgan).

Funny you mention Anzalone. Would you rather miss on a 5 star kid that you put a lot of effort into or a 3 star kid committed to Purdue that you put a lot of effort into?

You can come in late and get these types of guys and we are failing at LB recruiting. Those are two facts.

It doesn't really matter if you miss on the 5 star or the 3 in your scenario because you still have to go back on the trail and put work in for other kids. On one hand you are battling Florida, and the other Purdue. Which would seem like the easier pull? It's still about projecting an individuals ability, and what their potential is. Either way if you miss on either of the candidates, you will still have a zero in the commit column.

Also, if you come in late on some prospects and miss it really isn't different than recruiting them from the beginning and missing. You still lose the prospect and have to get back on the trail. It is extremely hard to come in late for most kids and get them to listen to what you are saying, no matter if they are 3 or 5 stars. By that time they have already built relationships with other coaching staffs, and you have to break down the walls to get them to listen.

They have had literally no bites from most of the elite linebackers in this class, and have therefore branched out to target other prospects. This is recruiting 101, which entails a staff utilizes their resources for the most likely to commit. It would be ridiculous for them to recruit an elite guy that has no interest just for the sake of recruiting a top prospect.

 

[woolybug25]

It doesn't really matter if you miss on the 5 star or the 3 in your scenario because you still have to go back on the trail and put work in for other kids. On one hand you are battling Florida, and the other Purdue. Which would seem like the easier pull? It's still about projecting an individuals ability, and what their potential is. Either way if you miss on either of the candidates, you will still have a zero in the commit column.

Also, if you come in late on some prospects and miss it really isn't different than recruiting them from the beginning and missing. You still lose the prospect and have to get back on the trail. It is extremely hard to come in late for most kids and get them to listen to what you are saying, no matter if they are 3 or 5 stars. By that time they have already built relationships with other coaching staffs, and you have to break down the walls to get them to listen.

They have had literally no bites from most of the elite linebackers in this class, and have therefore branched out to target other prospects. This is recruiting 101, which entails a staff utilizes their resources for the most likely to commit. It would be ridiculous for them to recruit an elite guy that has no interest just for the sake of recruiting a top prospect.

You guys keep rationalizing missing on top LB's consistently and i'll keep telling you that its unacceptable. You are simply fighting a losing battle if you think that i'm (or anyone in my camp for that matter) is going to suddenly say, "the good LB's don't want to be here, so I am going to gush over project players and project them to be the next Keuchly".

That's stupid… so the top LB's don't have interest… who's fault is that?

 

[Irishbounty28]

You guys keep rationalizing missing on top LB's consistently and i'll keep telling you that its unacceptable. You are simply fighting a losing battle if you think that i'm (or anyone in my camp for that matter) is going to suddenly say, "the good LB's don't want to be here, so I am going to gush over project players and project them to be the next Keuchly".

That's stupid… so the top LB's don't have interest… who's fault is that?

I understand what you are saying wooly, but it doesn't change the fact that we aren't getting the guys so therefore we have to recruit the other guys. If you miss you still need linebackers, and therefore may have to take some flyers.

Recruiting is more than just the coaches getting out and talking to players, because if it wasn't than there wouldn't be much of a difference between Alabama, and UNLV. It is about tradition, success on the gridiron, weather, academics, and the list could go on. If those things don't fit into what the kids want than there is no use recruiting them.

The linebacker position has so far been an outlier in the Brian Kelly era, and not the norm for all positions. Is that because they recruit linebackers differently than the rest of the prospects? Why do they seem to have success at some of the other positions such as the offensive line and not linebacker? Do you think they are doing things differently in that regard?

Edit: Also I am not one to gush over many prospects before they step onto the football field in real DI action, it isn't worth it. There is really no telling who will be great and who won't. This kid Kolin Hill has just as much of a chance to be the next Ray Lewis as anyone else in this class for all we know.

 

[Luckylucci]

You guys keep rationalizing missing on top LB's consistently and i'll keep telling you that its unacceptable. You are simply fighting a losing battle if you think that i'm (or anyone in my camp for that matter) is going to suddenly say, "the good LB's don't want to be here, so I am going to gush over project players and project them to be the next Keuchly".

That's stupid… so the top LB's don't have interest… who's fault is that?

The result is on the staff, I agree thats the way it is but your initial post said my point is we are asleep at the wheel with major LB recruits and that couldn't be further from the truth. We are trying our butts off and they aren't coming.

 

[woolybug25]

The result is on the staff, I agree thats the way it is but your initial post said my point is we are asleep at the wheel with major LB recruits and that couldn't be further from the truth. We are trying our butts off and they aren't coming.

We've been in the mix with guys like Tranquill from the start, while we are not getting interest from a variety of top prospects. If you want to believe that the staff has been "trying their butt off" with all of the top linebackers, then I assume that you think that they are doing a terrible job at recruiting LB's this cycle, right?

You can't have it both ways. The result is that we are missing on all of the elite LB's, despite offering immediate playing time. So we are either bad at recruiting them or putting in the wrong efforts. It's simple math.

 

[GoIrish41]

I understand what you are saying wooly, but it doesn't change the fact that we aren't getting the guys so therefore we have to recruit the other guys. If you miss you still need linebackers, and therefore may have to take some flyers.

Recruiting is more than just the coaches getting out and talking to players, because if it wasn't than there wouldn't be much of a difference between Alabama, and UNLV. It is about tradition, success on the gridiron, weather, academics, and the list could go on. If those things don't fit into what the kids want than there is no use recruiting them.

The linebacker position has so far been an outlier in the Brian Kelly era, and not the norm for all positions. Is that because they recruit linebackers differently than the rest of the prospects? Why do they seem to have success at some of the other positions such as the offensive line and not linebacker? Do you think they are doing things differently in that regard?

Edit: Also I am not one to gush over many prospects before they step onto the football field in real DI action, it isn't worth it. There is really no telling who will be great and who won't. This kid Kolin Hill has just as much of a chance to be the next Ray Lewis as anyone else in this class for all we know.

Highly unlikely that they recruit LB any differently. Perhaps the LB prospects don't like what they see on the field at ND. Maybe they don't want to play in the 3-4. Maybe they haven't been impressed with how Kelly/Diaco deploy LBs. I know many fans haven't been so that seems pretty possible.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Highly unlikely that they recruit LB any differently. Perhaps the LB prospects don't like what they see on the field at ND. Maybe they don't want to play in the 3-4. Maybe they haven't been impressed with how Kelly/Diaco deploy LBs. I know many fans haven't been so that seems pretty possible.

I feel the same way was just wondering what others thought.

 

[woolybug25]

Here are the facts:

- We had a Heisman candidate LB graduate last year.
- We offer immediate playing time.
- There are top LB's at schools we typically do well at.
- There are top LB's within 200 miles of our campus.
- We offer the ability to play next to Jaylon Smith.

I could go on, but I think you could make a pretty good recruiting pitch out of that.

 

[Ironman8]

Here are the facts:

- We had a Heisman candidate LB graduate last year.
- We offer immediate playing time.
- There are top LB's at schools we typically do well at.
- There are top LB's within 200 miles of our campus.
- We offer the ability to play next to Jaylon Smith.

I could go on, but I think you could make a pretty good recruiting pitch out of that.

And a school like Ole Miss can offer:

- Immediate playing time
- Great weather
- No worry on class work
- Gorgeous girls
- SEC competition
- "The chance to be the next Patrick Willis"
- $$$$$

Some guys simply want different things. If you are trying to tell me BK and ND isn't recruiting the hell out of a guy like Nyles Morgan, I think you are flat out wrong. They even have the parents on their side. Some kids simply want different things out of their college choice. That doesn't mean they aren't recruiting well, it just means the kid wants something different, which is fully his choice and I get it. You can't make a kid choose your school simply because you recruit him hard and you are ND.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Here are the facts:

- We had a Heisman candidate LB graduate last year.
- We offer immediate playing time.
- There are top LB's at schools we typically do well at.
- There are top LB's within 200 miles of our campus.
- We offer the ability to play next to Jaylon Smith.

I could go on, but I think you could make a pretty good recruiting pitch out of that.

Yep and if they are elite they are hearing from lets say Alabama...

-We win Championships at the rapid rate, and will continue in the future.
-You will play next to 10 Jaylon Smith's for the foreseeable future.
-You will receive some kind of financial compensations for coming here.
-You will not have to take any courses that require actual effort.
-We have multiple defensive players drafted every year.


Just saying...

Every school has a pitch, and the ones getting the elite prospects seem to have a better pitch then us at the moment.

 

[rikkitikki08]

People get way to wrapped up into the rating system for recruits, including my self. This kid has nice hands and plays violent, could be a gem

 

[drake29]

I really like the offer as well. Like his build and his motor. Just seems like a kid that's just scratching the surface of his potential.

 

[Luckylucci]

We've been in the mix with guys like Tranquill from the start, while we are not getting interest from a variety of top prospects. If you want to believe that the staff has been "trying their butt off" with all of the top linebackers, then I assume that you think that they are doing a terrible job at recruiting LB's this cycle, right?

You can't have it both ways. The result is that we are missing on all of the elite LB's, despite offering immediate playing time. So we are either bad at recruiting them or putting in the wrong efforts. It's simple math.

We offered Garrett, Morgan, Raekwon, Ferns, etc. well before we offered Tranquill. We went and visited all of those guys the first chance we got last spring. We sent booker to Raekwon's school a number of times even when he wasn't seriously considering us. Garrett was sporting Irish gear all over twitter last year. Reality set in that he would have to do work in the classroom and he was out. There are more examples of us trying and the kid not responding than there is of us just being "asleep at the wheel". Obviously the result has not been what we would like. Poor results don't automatically mean its because of lack of effort. There is a myriad of different circumstances that play roles in these decisions. So, again it makes more sense for discussion purposes to come up with solutions than just complaining about it not happening.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Either this kid plays with 12 year olds or he is much bigger than his listed size

 

[woolybug25]

Every school has a pitch, and the ones getting the elite prospects seem to have a better pitch then us at the moment.

I don't believe that. Are you telling me schools like Tennessee, Cal, ASU, Miami, South Carolina and Michigan all have better pitches right now?

Because they all have top 25 LB's committed.

We were in the freaking title game last year, for crying out loud. Led by a Heisman candidate LB.

 

[PANDFAN]

We offered Garrett, Morgan, Raekwon, Ferns, etc. well before we offered Tranquill. We went and visited all of those guys the first chance we got last spring. We sent booker to Raekwon's school a number of times even when he wasn't seriously considering us. Garrett was sporting Irish gear all over twitter last year. Reality set in that he would have to do work in the classroom and he was out. There are more examples of us trying and the kid not responding than there is of us just being "asleep at the wheel". Obviously the result has not been what we would like. Poor results don't automatically mean its because of lack of effort. There is a myriad of different circumstances that play roles in these decisions. So, again it makes more sense for discussion purposes to come up with solutions than just complaining about it not happening.

from an insider Q AND A with Raekwon
11. You are a small town guy in a place that is not easy to get to. With that in mind, was there a coach or school that when they showed up at Liberty County High it was a real attention grabber for you and others?

When I was considering Notre Dame, Brian Kelly pulled up to the front of the school and everybody noticed him. They had the national championship game in like two weeks when he came by, and I was like “Wow, this is serious.”

 

[woolybug25]

We offered Garrett, Morgan, Raekwon, Ferns, etc. well before we offered Tranquill. We went and visited all of those guys the first chance we got last spring. We sent booker to Raekwon's school a number of times even when he wasn't seriously considering us. Garrett was sporting Irish gear all over twitter last year. Reality set in that he would have to do work in the classroom and he was out. There are more examples of us trying and the kid not responding than there is of us just being "asleep at the wheel". Obviously the result has not been what we would like. Poor results don't automatically mean its because of lack of effort. There is a myriad of different circumstances that play roles in these decisions. So, again it makes more sense for discussion purposes to come up with solutions than just complaining about it not happening.

What about all of the other LB's offered after Tranquill? Just naming the few that got in before doesn't prove anything. But how does simply accepting filling up our LB corps with project players count as "coming up with solutions"?

Where is the accountability?