ND Oversold on Kelly?

[enrico514]

I agree that there should be an expectation of success, but I think that most people have lost sight of the fact that 9-3, 8-4, IS success, considering the situation(s): losing starting QB for the season, having 13 of the 22 on the defensive 2 deep miss time, trying to replace both starting tailbacks from last year, trying to replace an All-American Middle Linebacker, etc. We're becoming an all or nothing society. There can be only one winner, and that's the person holding the trophy. Well, that's bvllshit! There are winners all around us, if we bother to pull our heads out of our a$$es long enough to look.

Great post!

 

[enrico514]

I expect 10+ every year with the occasional 9 win season. Anything below that is a disappointment to me.

That's unrealistic (Irish insanity actually!) and just sets you up for disappointment!

 

[Buster Bluth]

Don't make him sit out...just give him more help and let him do what he came to ND to do: Play football.

Urban has a seat for you in Ohio Stadium.

 

[irishfan]

Urban has a seat for you in Ohio Stadium.

Eh, I'll take a 21 game win steak if it means having that mentality.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Eh, I'll take a 21 game win steak if it means having that mentality.

I wouldn't.

 

[ACamp1900]

I have honestly never been so torn... I'm closer than ever to saying throw in the academic towel, honestly 99% of the country doesn't give two shits... Program, coaches, players and fans... ND is basically doing it for themselves and has been for some time... Not saying that enough to just give in... Just typing my thoughts as they come...

 

[Buster Bluth]

The single worst thing about being a Notre Dame fan is how, after a loss mostly caused by three turnovers, fans think they need to completely reevaluate the program.

Brian Kelly the last eight years...

Starting Dayne Crist/Tommy Rees: 24-13 (65%)
Starting anyone else: 54-11 (83%)

 

[Irish Insanity]

That's unrealistic (Irish insanity actually!) and just sets you up for disappointment!

I would much rather be disappointed if we win less than 10 than happy if we win 8. If we aren't a mediocre program then we shouldn't be happy with mediocre results. To me 8-5 / 9-4 is mediocre.

 

[palinurus]

An occasional 9-3, 8-4 season is okay. If that is the norm, it isn't Notre Dame football; it's Wisconsin or Kansas State. That's second tier stuff.

 

[IrishLion]

The single worst thing about being a Notre Dame fan is how, after a loss mostly caused by three turnovers, fans think they need to completely reevaluate the program.

Brian Kelly the last eight years...

Starting Dayne Crist/Tommy Rees: 24-13 (65%)
Starting anyone else: 54-11 (83%)

It's all about the QB with BK. Once one of his guys finally sticks, it'll be dandy.
Hopefully Golson --> Zaire --> Kizer/?? --> ?? will begin a train of successful, dependable QB play.

However, I also think BK was very fortunate in years past as well. He's certainly got a good track record with QBs, but it helps when one of them was superstud Dan LeFevour, and the others were Mauk, Grutza, Pike and Collaros at UC, all bringing more to the table physically than Tommy Rees. The expectations were at an unfair height when he came to ND maybe.

 

[Pachuco]

I have honestly never been so torn... I'm closer than ever to saying throw in the academic towel, honestly 99% of the country doesn't give two shits... Program, coaches, players and fans... ND is basically doing it for themselves and has been for some time... Not saying that enough to just give in... Just typing my thoughts as they come...

Honestly, it's a big part of what keeps me a fan. It's also something that I respect in other programs that approach the sport with some level of integrity. If I wanted to cheer for pro athletes with no school affiliation or academic responsibilities, there's the NFL. I remember the challenges I faced in college, the friends I made who played sports, and it's part of why I respect the college game. It's tough, but it's about team, it's about school. There are multifaceted aspects of nobility that make the college game worth supporting, but these facets have long been fading. It's disappointing.

 

[enrico514]

An occasional 9-3, 8-4 season is okay. If that is the norm, it isn't Notre Dame football; it's Wisconsin or Kansas State. That's second tier stuff.

Holtz had 6 (out of 11) such seasons...

 

[DCirishfan]

The single worst thing about being a Notre Dame fan is how, after a loss mostly caused by three turnovers, fans think they need to completely reevaluate the program.

Brian Kelly the last eight years...

Starting Dayne Crist/Tommy Rees: 24-13 (65%)
Starting anyone else: 54-11 (83%)

Why is he starting Rees? Oh yeah, because he did not plan with his recruiting. And GK leaving is no excuse IMO.

 

[DCirishfan]

Honestly, it's a big part of what keeps me a fan. It's also something that I respect in other programs that approach the sport with some level of integrity. If I wanted to cheer for pro athletes with no school affiliation or academic responsibilities, there's the NFL. I remember the challenges I faced in college, the friends I made who played sports, and it's part of why I respect the college game. It's tough, but it's about team, it's about school. There are multifaceted aspects of nobility that make the college game worth supporting, but these facets have long been fading. It's disappointing.

I think there has to be some give on the academic front. Eventually it will become that or fade into an afterthought. Just reality. Why would you come here as a top tier coach when you know you can't compete year after year?

 

[NDohio]

Why is he starting Rees? Oh yeah, because he did not plan with his recruiting. And GK leaving is no excuse IMO.

Seriously?

Starter - Golson
B/U - Rees
3rd - Hendrix

I am good with that since GK couldn't handle the competition.

Lose EG and rely on your back-up and still win 8-10 games.

 

[rocket66]

The single worst thing about being a Notre Dame fan is how, after a loss mostly caused by three turnovers, fans think they need to completely reevaluate the program.

Brian Kelly the last eight years...

Starting Dayne Crist/Tommy Rees: 24-13 (65%)
Starting anyone else: 54-11 (83%)

Yup.

 

[phork]

The single worst thing about being a Notre Dame fan is how, after a loss mostly caused by three turnovers, fans think they need to completely reevaluate the program.

Brian Kelly the last eight years...

Starting Dayne Crist/Tommy Rees: 24-13 (65%)
Starting anyone else: 54-11 (83%)

Man Kelly has been at ND for 8 years already...

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Seriously?

Starter - Golson
B/U - Rees
3rd - Hendrix

I am good with that since GK couldn't handle the competition.

Lose EG and rely on your back-up and still win 8-10 games.

EXACTLY. You hit the nail on the head!!! How many teams in college football could lose their starter and be 7-3 with the schedule ND has played? It would be safe to say not many. I have a piece going up on my site today that kinda gets into the state of the team, but essentially like we all know Rees is a game manager, he isnt going to be a game breaker. He is going to make TO's like EVERY qb, but he just doesnt have the ability to make up for those TO's as a Golson/Winston/Miller/Mariota. Its the timing of the TOs that is bad over the fact its a turnover. I mean look at UGA, they got hit with the injury bug and dropped games this year they probably should have won, but still didnt lose their starting qb. Ohio St may be the only team in the country where if their starting QB went down they would be fine. Kenny Guition is a damn good qb but he doesnt have that game breaking ability that Braxton has. Better arm, better decisions, more heart? Probably. But he cant take a sack into a 45 yard TD in a blink of an eye. Put Rees on Texas AM they are a .500 team, hell put their backup in and they are a .500 team. Rees was efficient in the role he played last yr, but there are going to be games where he has to be perfect and if hes not then you get games like ND's 3 losses. You can say all you want about him being a senior, but if you would have given me his stat line through 10 games back in August, i would have taken it.

The coaches are putting the players in position to win games. Sure can stuff be better? Absolutely. It all comes down to execution and inexperience in Michigan game hurt, Oklahoma the first 3mins hurt, and Saturday ND just didnt catch breaks. Its frustrating, and staff has to be perfect as well, but its not something Im overly concerned with. They got to a National Title game last year with a game breaker at QB, next year that QB will be back (99% sure) and thats where you can judge the staff. Things happen out of their hands and they got to roll with it.

 

[Irishnuke]

I'm no expert but here's what I know. The one season BK had a QB that fit his offense, ND played for the NC. Now I realize the defense got us there more than EG, but ND was there. I also know the D has taken a step back and has a ton of injuries, but two of the three losses (OU, Pitt) were mostly due to turnovers. Protect the ball and ND wins those games. I can't and won't judge BK on this season because he's trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Injuries and turnovers have killed this team, not BK.

 

[rocket66]

I'm no expert but here's what I know. The one season BK had a QB that fit his offense, ND played for the NC. Now I realize the defense got us there more than EG, but ND was there. I also know the D has taken a step back and has a ton of injuries, but two of the three losses (OU, Pitt) were mostly due to turnovers. Protect the ball and ND wins those games. I can't and won't judge BK on this season because he's trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Injuries and turnovers have killed this team, not BK.

Agreed on all points. The defense was a big part of the NC appearance, however Golson played a MAJOR roll in the wins vs. MSU, OU, Stanford, and USC, which were probably the four biggest games. He made plays that Rees could only dream of in those huge games.

 

[BGIF]

I'm no expert but here's what I know. The one season BK had a QB that fit his offense, ND played for the NC. Now I realize the defense got us there more than EG, but ND was there. I also know the D has taken a step back and has a ton of injuries, but two of the three losses (OU, Pitt) were mostly due to turnovers. Protect the ball and ND wins those games. I can't and won't judge BK on this season because he's trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Injuries and turnovers have killed this team, not BK.

Agreed on all points. The defense was a big part of the NC appearance, however Golson played a MAJOR roll in the wins vs. MSU, OU, Stanford, and USC, which were probably the four biggest games. He made plays that Rees could only dream of in those huge games.

Great points but regardless of who was at QB the Red Zone numbers were poor last year and still are. Golson is a viable theat to run in the Red Zone and scored half a dozen times but in reality The TEAM was no more successful in the Red Zone. In '11 ND sputtered in the Red Zone. In 4 years I don't believe it has ever been a strength.

Red Zone TD% Conversions
'13 59%
'12 48%
'11 66%
'10 56%

 

[JeremyND07]

I have read over and over about ND injuries on defense on this board. The problem is without any injuries this year we still have below average athletes at LB and Safety. With or without Golson our defense is below average everywhere except the DL. We have been blessed with amazing hard hitting and nose for the ball type safeties for what seems like forever. We do not have that this year! Our linebackers are 250 pounds and just slow. It is so hard to watch especially after last year. Can we do what every other top tier college program does and pack on 20 pounds of muscle on our safeties and move them to MLB?

 

[dublinirish]

I have read over and over about ND injuries on defense on this board. The problem is without any injuries this year we still have below average athletes at LB and Safety. With or without Golson our defense is below average everywhere except the DL. We have been blessed with amazing hard hitting and nose for the ball type safeties for what seems like forever. We do not have that this year! Our linebackers are 250 pounds and just slow. It is so hard to watch especially after last year. Can we do what every other top tier college program does and pack on 20 pounds of muscle on our safeties and move them to MLB?

you really want Farley and Collinsworth in a position where they are required to make more tackles? :/

 

[NDohio]

Great points but regardless of who was at QB the Red Zone numbers were poor last year and still are. Golson is a viable theat to run in the Red Zone and scored half a dozen times but in reality The TEAM was no more successful in the Red Zone. In '11 ND sputtered in the Red Zone. In 4 years I don't believe it has ever been a strength.

Red Zone TD% Conversions
'13 58%
'12 48%
'11
'10

I agree. My biggest issue with the offense is what happens in the RZ. Outsie of the RZ, some of the plays that are absolute failures are often on the players and not the play call, but it seems like once the O gets into the RZ they all go brain dead(coaches and players).

One of my most frustrating moments in the last two years was the final drive against USC last year. It epitomizes our RZ deficiencies. We were gashing them with the run game and Theo was killing it. We got to the RZ, called a timeout, emptied out the backfield, and stopped running the ball. FG.

 

[BGIF]

I have read over and over about ND injuries on defense on this board. The problem is without any injuries this year we still have below average athletes at LB and Safety. With or without Golson our defense is below average everywhere except the DL. We have been blessed with amazing hard hitting and nose for the ball type safeties for what seems like forever. We do not have that this year! Our linebackers are 250 pounds and just slow. It is so hard to watch especially after last year. Can we do what every other top tier college program does and pack on 20 pounds of muscle on our safeties and move them to MLB?

you really want Farley and Collinsworth in a position where they are required to make more tackles? :/

Collinsworth was 178. He added 27 lbs. Farley was 94 and added 10 lbs. They would both have to add another 30 pounds at a minimum.

Jeremy you may have read about the injuriese but you apparently don't grasp the significance. The Front Four were picked preseason as the #1DLine ... They've played only 18 snaps TOGETHER. That's less than one quarter of play in 40 quarters!

That means the Sacks, TFLs, and QBHs aren't there. It also means changing the scheme putting the weaker secondary in man because others are blitzing trying to make up for the missing DLs.

The lack of bodies mean less rest for the less talented. But injuries aren't at DL. Grace moved ahead of Carlo/Fox till he was lost for the season. I don't know if Randolph would have helped but we didn't get to find out as he went down preseason. Jaylon might have been a help at ILB but it wasn't an option when everyone went down at his OLB slot. He IS the depth chart and he's a true freshman. Baratti has Zibby speed and was supposed to challenge for a starting role - LOST PRESEASON.

Tuitt was bothered by his hernia surgery. Nix is playing with a knee problem. A lot of those playing are nicked.

Last year ND was fortunate with injuries this year it seems to be the exception to be healthy.

 

[irishpat183]

I expect 10+ every year with the occasional 9 win season. Anything below that is a disappointment to me.

Eh, I'll take a 21 game win steak if it means having that mentality.

Thank you. I'll take a couple "ringers" as well.


Like I said...Nobody cares about grades on Saturday.

 

[JeremyND07]

you really want Farley and Collinsworth in a position where they are required to make more tackles? :/

My point exactly Farley and Collinsworth are our best options at safety? Yikes! We could have the front 4 healthy every game. The problem is our slow and non-athletic LBs would still not be filling the holes and/or missing there assignments. Tuitt and Nix are a MLB dream eating up blocks and keeping OT busy. I just do not think our LBs have the ability or athleticism to take advantage of this gift. The last 3-4 games I went back and watched. Our MLB are consistently roaming in open space lost and looking clueless.

 

[Wild Bill]

I have read over and over about ND injuries on defense on this board. The problem is without any injuries this year we still have below average athletes at LB and Safety. With or without Golson our defense is below average everywhere except the DL. We have been blessed with amazing hard hitting and nose for the ball type safeties for what seems like forever. We do not have that this year! Our linebackers are 250 pounds and just slow. It is so hard to watch especially after last year. Can we do what every other top tier college program does and pack on 20 pounds of muscle on our safeties and move them to MLB?

I disagree.

I guess we'll never know, but IMO, if Spond was not hurt I think he would have been moved to will and the linebackers would have been Shembo at cat, Grace at mike, Spond at will and Jaylon at dog. That's an above average group of backers. Councell, Fox, Carlo and Ishaq aren't bad second teamers either.

Not making excuses, but injuries depleted an otherwise talented linebacking corp.

 

[CarrollVermin]

Injuries are a part of the game. The part that has hurt is the attrition. It has been noted on here before. That issue needs to be examined, addressed, and corrected (I know...sounds obvious). There appears, from the outside, to be an endemic issue. I don't blame anyone for it as I am not on the inside, but to ignore it would be foolish. If Kelly wants to survive at ND, that is one the largest issues he must address.

 

[wizards8507]

Injuries are a part of the game. The part that has hurt is the attrition. It has been noted on here before. That issue needs to be examined, addressed, and corrected (I know...sounds obvious). There appears, from the outside, to be an endemic issue. I don't blame anyone for it as I am not on the inside, but to ignore it would be foolish. If Kelly wants to survive at ND, that is one the largest issues he must address.

This. People cite attrition as an excuse on BK's behalf as if he has nothing to with the attrition himself. "Recruiting" includes "retaining" and we've been pretty good at the former but mediocre to poor at the latter. You can't say "BK is great... except for poor depth and poor retainage of talent," because those things are part of what would be necessary to MAKE him great.