Student-Athlete Majors

[irishpat183]

you're telling me philosophy, history, political science, sociology, and anthropology are on the same playing field as kinesiology?

i didn't go to ND, but that wasn't the case where i went to school.

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

Philosophy, History, sociolgy? really? Hell, the kines major has a better chance at a job than those degrees.


Again, it's ND guys so everyone on here is defending. I don't really care what a kid majors in. But for us to slam other schools for a Kines major....then walk out guys that are in the "college of fine arts", is hypocritical.

 

[Jason Pham]

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

Philosophy, History, sociolgy? really? Hell, the kines major has a better chance at a job than those degrees.


Again, it's ND guys so everyone on here is defending. I don't really care what a kid majors in. But for us to slam other schools for a Kines major....then walk out guys that are in the "college of fine arts", is hypocritical.

Except none of my friends who graduated from the College of Arts and Letters are doing too terribly for themselves. From political to economic institutions to consulting firms in just about every field, firms value the sort of critical thinking that comes out of a liberal arts major done well and it's not stretch to think Notre Dame, where the College of Arts and Letters is both the oldest and largest of the schools, is doing liberal arts correctly. I get where you are coming from and you're unlikely to find a philosophy graduate from even a flagship state school at Ernst & Young or Goldman Sachs, but that's exactly where Arts and Letters grads are landing straight out of their time at Notre Dame and I'm not sure they're working alongside kinesiology grads.

 

[MNIrishman]

Pat, ND doesn't have a 'Mass Comm' program, so that comparison is immaterial. Further, the diversity of major choices is just as significant as what specific majors are chosen, since that indicates that there's no well-known 'easy' major like kines into which we funnel our athletes. Finally, I'd like to make a point about the quality of peer group that our students have in any major at the university. Students learn from each other while studying as much as from sitting in class, and our students are just generally smarter than you would find at UM (exceptions noted, with conclusion made on a statistical and not absolute basis).

 

[ClausentoTate]

I'm going to assume you guys never took any philosophy classes at ND... that stuff is SERIOUSLY challenging. It's not a "let's talk about our feelings" major, it's a legit study your *** off major. My medieval philosophy class was probably the most reading I've done for a class while at ND. After college is another story but it's not like Ishaq is taking the easy way out.

 

[Rack Em]

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

Philosophy, History, sociolgy? really? Hell, the kines major has a better chance at a job than those degrees.

A better chance at a job? Debatable.

A better chance at a great job? Absolutely not. JPham said it well.

 

[Rack Em]

I'm going to assume you guys never took any philosophy classes at ND... that stuff is SERIOUSLY challenging. It's not a "let's talk about our feelings" major, it's a legit study your *** off major. My medieval philosophy class was probably the most reading I've done for a class while at ND. After college is another story but it's not like Ishaq is taking the easy way out.

I took my 2nd Philo credit while I was abroad in London, hoping it would be easier. Kinda, but not by very much. I seriously worked my arse off to get an A in that class. I spent a lot of time researching and developing my papers. Like a lot of time. It wasn't a joke.

 

[irishog77]

Except none of my friends who graduated from the College of Arts and Letters are doing too terribly for themselves. From political to economic institutions to consulting firms in just about every field, firms value the sort of critical thinking that comes out of a liberal arts major done well and it's not stretch to think Notre Dame, where the College of Arts and Letters is both the oldest and largest of the schools, is doing liberal arts correctly. I get where you are coming from and you're unlikely to find a philosophy graduate from even a flagship state school at Ernst & Young or Goldman Sachs, but that's exactly where Arts and Letters grads are landing straight out of their time at Notre Dame and I'm not sure they're working alongside kinesiology grads.

Agreed. I know tons of people who do very well with Liberal Arts degrees. Of course, that's to be expected somewhat, when one attends a Liberal Arts school.

And to add to JPham's post, Catholic and Western education is based on Liberal Arts. Educate the entire mind...and a job (in any discipline) will follow. The current practice of "getting an education for a job" is a recent phenomenon-- mainly grown and perpetuated by the arms race that exists in "higher education" for grant money (from public and private sources) and donations.

 

[rtrn2glory]

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

Philosophy, History, sociolgy? really? Hell, the kines major has a better chance at a job than those degrees.


Again, it's ND guys so everyone on here is defending. I don't really care what a kid majors in. But for us to slam other schools for a Kines major....then walk out guys that are in the "college of fine arts", is hypocritical.

you know how much those guys have to read to major in those majors.

think you're drastically undervaluing how difficult it is to major in those majors, you realize some of the smartest men to ever walk the planet were philosophers correct?

 

[UmphreakDomer]

i majored in film and minored in philo---

I make movies.

Come at me Bro!

lol!

 

[wizards8507]

you know how much those guys have to read to major in those majors.

I was an accounting major (which I see that none of the players decided to tackle) at ND but took something like 6-10 philosophy courses, including a few at Saint Mary's. The philosophy courses were far less difficult, but they took up much more of my time. It's easy to write a B+ philosophy paper, but it still takes time and effort to churn out the pages of writing necessary to be successful. Accounting courses were significantly more challenging, but not nearly as time consuming.

I think Pat's point was more that "Philosophy is a royal failure when it comes to career opportunities," not necessarily that the classes themselves are cake.

It's also important to note that the philosophy courses designed for philosophy majors are significantly more difficult than the electives that non-philosophy majors take to fulfill their University requirements.

think you're drastically undervaluing how difficult it is to major in those majors, you realize some of the smartest men to ever walk the planet were philosophers correct?

Those guys weren't undergraduate philosophy majors though. They did philosophy.

 

[GowerND11]

Also I wouldn't doubt if a lot of those guys majoring in History, Philosophy, Sociology, etc aren't planning on just a BA in those fields. Probably looking into law school or some other graduate degree which will inherently inflate their ability to land a great job. Plus let us not underestimate the value of the Notre Dame Alumni Network.

 

[Emcee77]

Except none of my friends who graduated from the College of Arts and Letters are doing too terribly for themselves. From political to economic institutions to consulting firms in just about every field, firms value the sort of critical thinking that comes out of a liberal arts major done well and it's not stretch to think Notre Dame, where the College of Arts and Letters is both the oldest and largest of the schools, is doing liberal arts correctly. I get where you are coming from and you're unlikely to find a philosophy graduate from even a flagship state school at Ernst & Young or Goldman Sachs, but that's exactly where Arts and Letters grads are landing straight out of their time at Notre Dame and I'm not sure they're working alongside kinesiology grads.

Also I wouldn't doubt if a lot of those guys majoring in History, Philosophy, Sociology, etc aren't planning on just a BA in those fields. Probably looking into law school or some other graduate degree which will inherently inflate their ability to land a great job. Plus let us not underestimate the value of the Notre Dame Alumni Network.

Right and right. Like Phammer, I too had friends from ND in liberal arts majors land jobs right out of college as consultants at Big Four firms and as investment bankers (Goldman Sachs really seems to like hiring ND grads, or at least did when I was coming out). I'm not saying everyone I knew is in the 1% or anything, but none of them are working as cashiers or anything like that.

 

[irishpat183]

You can spin your wheels all you want. You know I'm right.

Most of these guys ain't going to law school. Most of these guys ain't going pro.

Connect the dots.


And please pass this article along to the boys:

The 10 Worst College Majors - Forbes

So I guess Ishaq Williams must have a deep love for Philosophy. Or Schewke and Tuitt are Anthropolgy enthusists?? LOL

 

[irishpat183]

Right and right. Like Phammer, I too had friends from ND in liberal arts majors land jobs right out of college as consultants at Big Four firms and as investment bankers (Goldman Sachs really seems to like hiring ND grads, or at least did when I was coming out). I'm not saying everyone I knew is in the 1% or anything, but none of them are working as cashiers or anything like that.

Now, if we're talking a school's degree vs another? That's a different story.


I'm talking about the actual field of study. You're getting hired becuase you went to ND, not because you were a great Anthropolgist.

And those guys will likely be hired because the PLAYED FOOTBALL AT ND.


The major is worthless in this scenerio. Ex football star from ND??!!! You're hired!

 

[irishpat183]

For the record...I don't care what Tuitt majors in as long as he's sacking the QB.

Just win, baby.

 

[NDBoiler]

You can spin your wheels all you want. You know I'm right.

Most of these guys ain't going to law school. Most of these guys ain't going pro.

Connect the dots.


And please pass this article along to the boys:

The 10 Worst College Majors - Forbes

So I guess Ishaq Williams must have a deep love for Philosophy. Or Schewke and Tuitt are Anthropolgy enthusists?? LOL

Pat -

The flaw in your argument is that you are not taking into consideration the value of the ND degree/network. It carries a lot more weight in the corporate world than most other schools, hence the basis of the "40 year decision" argument. Sure, you are probably right when looking at most state schools, but the statistics behind the 40 year decision clearly prove the value of the ND degree in general and refute your position. I can also attest to this from personal observation as well, as I am a state school graduate and my dad and sister are both ND alums. We all have been fortunate to be successful in our careers, but I can definitely see the value of the ND degree and the special opportunities it has given them (my sister was a psychology major and my dad was finance).

EDIT - I KNOW my sister studied WAY harder then I ever did in her liberal arts major than I did in my technical/management major too LOL.

 

[IrishLax]

College of Arts & Letters

Film Television and Theatre - 18.6%
(George Atkinson III, Josh Atkinson, Farley, Jackson, T.J. Jones, Moore, Big Lou and Lo Wood)

Undeclared - 9.3%
(Daniels, Hardy, Rabasa, and Schembo)

Design - 7%
(Brindza, Calabrese, Councell)

Anthropology - 7%
(Schwenke, Tuitt, Utupo)

Sociology - 4.7%
(Jalen Brown and Tausch)

History - 2.3%
(Springmann)

Political Science - 2.3%
(Spond)

Psychology - 2.3%
(McDaniel)

Philosophy - 2.3%
(Ishaq Williams)



These are no better than Kines majors. Lets get off our high horse.

Yeah.... they are.............

 

[rtrn2glory]

Yeah.... they are.............

i'd venture to say that education is one of the easiest majors to take...but it tramples the idea of kinesiology and african american studies and at the same time is dwarfed by poltical science, anthropology, and philosophy.

i just don't see how this could possibly be an argument.

must be navy week.

 

[GowerND11]

i'd venture to say that education is one of the easiest majors to take...but it tramples the idea of kinesiology and african american studies and at the same time is dwarfed by poltical science, anthropology, and philosophy.

i just don't see how this could possibly be an argument.

must be navy week.

As someone with an education degree I'd tend to agree. Most education classes are time consuming. A lot of reading, writing, and projects, but the difficulty is not too hard. This is especially true for elementary education. I will say that those of us in secondary education would be a notch up from el ed due to the necessity to take classes in our major field (Math-calc, trig, calc 2 etc. Science- upper level Bio classes like BioChem and so on. Even some of my upper level History and Government classes due to research projects).

 

[Kak7304]

College of Arts & Letters

Film Television and Theatre - 18.6%
(George Atkinson III, Josh Atkinson, Farley, Jackson, T.J. Jones, Moore, Big Lou and Lo Wood)

Undeclared - 9.3%
(Daniels, Hardy, Rabasa, and Schembo)

Design - 7%
(Brindza, Calabrese, Councell)

Anthropology - 7%
(Schwenke, Tuitt, Utupo)

Sociology - 4.7%
(Jalen Brown and Tausch)

History - 2.3%
(Springmann)

Political Science - 2.3%
(Spond)

Psychology - 2.3%
(McDaniel)

Philosophy - 2.3%
(Ishaq Williams)



These are no better than Kines majors. Lets get off our high horse.

It's not the Kinesthesiology major itself that is the problem. It's the fact that so many football players are funneled into it that makes it suspicious.

 

[Rack Em]

For the record...I don't care what Tuitt majors in as long as he's sacking the QB.

Just win, baby.

You're clearly alone in this argument, Al Davis.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Wow I didn't think Pat could fail any harder than he does in the Politics thread, but this was just great. Terrific blend of ridiculously broad assumptions and nonsensical opinions about them. Beautiful read.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The stupid is leaking from the Politics thread.

 

[koonja]

In my experience, friends who majored in psychology, philosophy, history, sociology, etc, had NO job market after finishing their undergrad. The only shot they had in the real world was to get a Masters or PHD in those fields, while I majored in Information Systems and had half a dozen offers before I started my final semester.

When in doubt, go business. These majors are soft IMO, but I imagine even these majors open some doors when they have the ND brand behind the diploma.

But I couldn't care less what our football players are majoring in. We need more guys with their eyes on the NFL, with a degree being a fall back option, and a great one at that. The HS-ers who truly get this are the ones who realize what ND offers.

We should get a kins major. That's very attractive to athletes.

 

[Grahambo]

I worked on my International Relations degree while serving in the Marines and then working full time for the government and there is a heck of a lot of reading and is much more difficult/time consuming then some may think.

Now, my degree is from an online school and doesn't belong in the same stratosphere as an ND degree but that's only if I tried going into the business world. My MOS in the Marines is my 'ND degree' and the ticket to the promise land with the degree literally just fulfilling the 'have a degree' requirement. That's only because my job and future job are federal government/private defense sector orientated.

It really depends on which sector you're trying to get into.

 

[irishpat183]

In my experience, friends who majored in psychology, philosophy, history, sociology, etc, had NO job market after finishing their undergrad. The only shot they had in the real world was to get a Masters or PHD in those fields, while I majored in Information Systems and had half a dozen offers before I started my final semester.

When in doubt, go business. These majors are soft IMO, but I imagine even these majors open some doors when they have the ND brand behind the diploma.

But I couldn't care less what our football players are majoring in. We need more guys with their eyes on the NFL, with a degree being a fall back option, and a great one at that. The HS-ers who truly get this are the ones who realize what ND offers.

We should get a kins major. That's very attractive to athletes.

Yep. Why the hell not? It's just as attractive as a psych degree. Especially at ND.

It doesn't matter what the hell you graduate with at ND...it's an ND degree. Basket weaving. Kines. Womens studies. Who cares!??

But lets not slam another school for offering ****** degrees...when we got a team full of psych majors.


Just be a 4.0 on the field. That's all I care about on Saturdays. Yes, I'm aware that's a very unpopular opinion. But it's my own. You dont have to share it.

 

[Classic Irish]

you're telling me philosophy, history, political science, sociology, and anthropology are on the same playing field as kinesiology?

As someone with graduate degrees in the liberal arts and medicine, I can unequivocally say that only a narrow-minded, ignorant, materialistic simpleton would think that. Some people really need to get out more and broaden their horizons.

 

[irishpat183]

As someone with graduate degrees in the liberal arts and medicine, I can unequivocally say that only a narrow-minded, ignorant, materialistic simpleton would think that. Some people really need to get out more and broaden their horizons.

For the record, I think he was questioning my view.

I said that they were no better than Kines.

I don't consider a psych degree any better than a kines degree.

 

[Grahambo]

Yep. Why the hell not? It's just as attractive as a psych degree. Especially at ND.

It doesn't matter what the hell you graduate with at ND...it's an ND degree. Basket weaving. Kines. Womens studies. Who cares!??

But lets not slam another school for offering ****** degrees...when we got a team full of psych majors.


Just be a 4.0 on the field. That's all I care about on Saturdays. Yes, I'm aware that's a very unpopular opinion. But it's my own. You dont have to share it.

 

[irishfanjho15]

My god. It never ends.