Players Skipping Alma Mater

[irishpat183]

So, to catch up, fans are pissed about a team not singing a song after losing a big game?

My point was, forget the song, is that Kelly isn't on the same page as his team.

 

[returnofthemack]

So, to catch up, fans are pissed about a team not singing a song after losing a big game?

It's been outlined numerous times on this thread why it's not just about singing a song or "swaying like nuns". So either you a.) automatically dismissed a valid complaint by people who actually went to ND b.) are fishing for reps from one of the other manly men who don't see the point in athletes embracing their community or c.) are just being a jacka$$. ND students who aren't freshmen have seen a lot of losses - as have the football players. But after all of those losses, the alma mater was sung, to show that the University is greater than the game. Apparently Brian doesn't think his team is tough enough to stand up to that "exposure" unless they have won the game. So yeah, buddy, fans are pissed about a team not singing a song after losing a big game. I'm done with this thread, it's ridiculous how dismissive some people are about something that's clearly important to the current students and alumni.

 

[Grahambo]

It's been outlined numerous times on this thread why it's not just about singing a song or "swaying like nuns". So either you a.) automatically dismissed a valid complaint by people who actually went to ND b.) are fishing for reps from one of the other manly men who don't see the point in athletes embracing their community or c.) are just being a jacka$$. ND students who aren't freshmen have seen a lot of losses - as have the football players. But after all of those losses, the alma mater was sung, to show that the University is greater than the game. Apparently Brian doesn't think his team is tough enough to stand up to that "exposure" unless they have won the game. So yeah, buddy, fans are pissed about a team not singing a song after losing a big game. I'm done with this thread, it's ridiculous how dismissive some people are about something that's clearly important to the current students and alumni.

Thanks the clarification Mack.

 

[IrishLax]

It's been outlined numerous times on this thread why it's not just about singing a song or "swaying like nuns". So either you a.) automatically dismissed a valid complaint by people who actually went to ND b.) are fishing for reps from one of the other manly men who don't see the point in athletes embracing their community or c.) are just being a jacka$$. ND students who aren't freshmen have seen a lot of losses - as have the football players. But after all of those losses, the alma mater was sung, to show that the University is greater than the game. Apparently Brian doesn't think his team is tough enough to stand up to that "exposure" unless they have won the game. So yeah, buddy, fans are pissed about a team not singing a song after losing a big game. I'm done with this thread, it's ridiculous how dismissive some people are about something that's clearly important to the current students and alumni.

/golfclap

The bigger issue here has nothing to do with "singing the song"... it has to do with a coach who is dumb enough to make a "policy" that is equivocal to giving the finger to the students. Regardless of how much other fans of many different feathers might flake on the team, the one group that is always there to the end is the students. How dumb does Brian Kelly have to be to do this? I mean that seriously... how f*cking short-sighted and stupid do you have to be to go "Hey, you know what would be a good idea? Let me try to **** off the one group of people that is supporting this team unequivocally right now for literally no rationale reason." This is a Weisian move. Maybe even a Kiffian move. This is how you start punching your ticket out of town.

Kelly has always been lauded as a good politician... as someone who "gets it" and all that jazz... I don't know what changed, but starting with the NFL flirtation he is all over the map now. The sheer level of BS he spews in press conferences has been bad since Week 1 and just continues to snow ball from there. Every media person I know... hell every remotely informed person I know... can point out a half dozen factually incorrect or ridiculously contradictory statements he makes each week. Now he's saying that he put in a "policy" that no one was aware of for player safety... err, wait... exposure? to get them under his guidance?... yeah OK.

Ironically, the only thing he has accomplished is destroying the message that we're in this together and should stick around through the highs and lows. The new message is "if things are going south, eff it." SMH.

Not only does Kelly have a record comparable to Kiffin, apparently he's also starting to mimic his brilliant PR approach.

 

[irishfan]

/golfclap

The bigger issue here has nothing to do with "singing the song"... it has to do with a coach who is dumb enough to make a "policy" that is equivocal to giving the finger to the students. Regardless of how much other fans of many different feathers might flake on the team, the one group that is always there to the end is the students. How dumb does Brian Kelly have to be to do this? I mean that seriously... how f*cking short-sighted and stupid do you have to be to go "Hey, you know what would be a good idea? Let me try to **** off the one group of people that is supporting this team unequivocally right now for literally no rationale reason." This is a Weisian move. Maybe even a Kiffian move. This is how you start punching your ticket out of town.

Kelly has always been lauded as a good politician... as someone who "gets it" and all that jazz... I don't know what changed, but starting with the NFL flirtation he is all over the map now. The sheer level of BS he spews in press conferences has been bad since Week 1 and just continues to snow ball from there. Every media person I know... hell every remotely informed person I know... can point out a half dozen factually incorrect or ridiculously contradictory statements he makes each week. Now he's saying that he put in a "policy" that no one was aware of for player safety... err, wait... exposure? to get them under his guidance?... yeah OK.

Ironically, the only thing he has accomplished is destroying the message that we're in this together and should stick around through the highs and lows. The new message is "if things are going south, eff it." SMH.

Not only does Kelly have a record comparable to Kiffin, apparently he's also starting to mimic his brilliant PR approach.

I agree with a lot of this unfortunately, as it has been really hard to be sold that Kelly is "the guy" for the job. He's made so many shaky decisions, and through 3.5 years, he's only really fielded a top 20 team for one season. Having said that, I think for now we owe Kelly the benefit of the doubt. Kiffin would let this season spiral out of control and finish 6-6. If Kelly can salvage this thing and we go 8-4 and win a bowl game, its about the year that most of expected with Rees.

 

[IrishLax]

I'll amend my rant to say I was just told Kelly isn't the one who spearheaded the change. Which reinforces the idea of him spewing BS recently, but goes against the idea that he's turning directly into Kiffin.

 

[ThePiombino]

I'll amend my rant to say I was just told Kelly isn't the one who spearheaded the change. Which reinforces the idea of him spewing BS recently, but goes against the idea that he's turning directly into Kiffin.

Come on, man. You are typically a VERY solid poster. But what's with the hyperbole? Kiffin? Really? Step back and ask yourself if you really think BK is anything like that waste of space. Granted, the recent news you're sharing does argue against it. But still0 BK has done more good for ND than Kiffin has done in his life for all programs combined.

 

[NDohio]

I'll amend my rant to say I was just told Kelly isn't the one who spearheaded the change. Which reinforces the idea of him spewing BS recently, but goes against the idea that he's turning directly into Kiffin.

Sometimes a good soldier takes the brunt of the criticism that should be thrown in another direction. Not sure how this is BK's fault at all.

 

[ThePiombino]

Sometimes a good soldier takes the brunt of the criticism that should be thrown in another direction. Not sure how this is BK's fault at all.

It's not. What it is is a bunch of pent-up frustration and deflection of said frustration. Things will get back on course. The team will get better. Ws will come and all will be forgotten. Til then...

 

[Grahambo]

So BK isn't the one who spearheaded the change and yet he still gets the hate?

Damned if you do and damned if you don't is what it seems like.

Look, some of you take great pride in ND singing the song after a game. I won't argue against it. Its your opinion. Respect. Personally, I think a big deal is being made out of something that's not important.

If anybody knows about tradition, it'd be me so we ain't going down that road either.

 

[IrishLax]

Come on, man. You are typically a VERY solid poster. But what's with the hyperbole? Kiffin? Really? Step back and ask yourself if you really think BK is anything like that waste of space. Granted, the recent news you're sharing does argue against it. But still0 BK has done more good for ND than Kiffin has done in his life for all programs combined.

Kelly has the resume to back up that he is a good coach and a program builder. I'm just saying that this recent move seemed borderline Kiffian. The difference is that Kiffin makes a move like this once a week, Kelly this is the first time ever. And now it seems like he's just handling the policy change in the best way possible, and there was actually something to precipitate the move. So like I said... this goes away from the idea of him going Kiffin, but supports the idea that he is talking out of both sides of his mouth with regularity this season. You can't expect coaches to be honest, but I'd rather he go Bellichickian and say next to nothing than make up flimsy excuses.

Their records at USC vs. ND are just about identical on the field though. No arguing that sadly.

 

[RDU Irish]

Without reading this whole thread, I will add that in the mid 90s we always stayed and swayed. I can't remember if the football team was there b/c my friend Jack had me a bit inebriated due to all the Coke diluting he tended to do on game days.

It kept you there until the end. If you don't like it leave like a wine and cheese blue hair who yells at people for standing up during the game.

There is only one logical approach for the team, all or nothing. Only doing it for wins is incredibly shallow. Also note that making that connection on away games is something pretty cool. Shows how no matter where you go, ND is there.

 

[FearTheBeard]

I agree with LAX. Im a colts fan and i hate Bellicheck, and sometimesi think its kinda stupid the way Bellicheck handles questions and press conferences. But i respect him as a great coach, and id much rather have my coach deal with it like Bellicheck and just not say anything than completely talk out of his ***. (Which i feel like Kelly has been doing alot of) I dont care if Bryant plays but what is with him saying some crap about him being in rotation when he clearly isnt. Just win games and keep your mouth shut whether you win or lose would be a much better option in my opinion.

 

[NDohio]

Kelly has the resume to back up that he is a good coach and a program builder. I'm just saying that this recent move seemed borderline Kiffian. The difference is that Kiffin makes a move like this once a week, Kelly this is the first time ever. And now it seems like he's just handling the policy change in the best way possible, and there was actually something to precipitate the move. So like I said... this goes away from the idea of him going Kiffin, but supports the idea that he is talking out of both sides of his mouth with regularity this season. You can't expect coaches to be honest, but I'd rather he go Bellichickian and say next to nothing than make up flimsy excuses.

Their records at USC vs. ND are just about identical on the field though. No arguing that sadly.

Big difference. Kiffin's success (however brief) was in the very beginning of his USC career. BK's success was last year, with a very good Freshman class this year. Their trajectories were polar opposite.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The best way to make this not matter is to stop losing at home.

 

[NDinFL]

Ridiculous

 

[tko]

I would love for that Pakistani reporter to ask Kelly about this on Tuesday.

 

[IrishLax]

Big difference. Kiffin's success (however brief) was in the very beginning of his USC career. BK's success was last year, with a very good Freshman class this year. Their trajectories were polar opposite.

Not really though. Kiffin won with Pete's players. Kelly won largely with Weis' players. Kiffin won 1 year before Kelly, but both did it with the rosters they inherited.

The only players Kelly used last year that were really his guys were Tuitt, Golson, Daniels (in spot duty), Farley (in spot duty due to injury), Russell (injury). I'd argue that IF Notre Dame is bad next year that Kelly will have a very similar trajectory to Kiffin. But he has awhile before it's time to worry about that.

 

[irishfan]

Not really though. Kiffin won with Pete's players. Kelly won largely with Weis' players. Kiffin won 1 year before Kelly, but both did it with the rosters they inherited.

The only players Kelly used last year that were really his guys were Tuitt, Golson, Daniels (in spot duty), Farley (in spot duty due to injury), Russell (injury). I'd argue that IF Notre Dame is bad next year that Kelly will have a very similar trajectory to Kiffin. But he has awhile before it's time to worry about that.

This. Kiffin obviously inherited much more talent, but also was hamstrung by sanctions. I think Kelly is the better coach and can still be the guy to win a NC here, but we've been making fun of SC/Kiffin here for 3.5 years and the records are barely different.

Kiffin (28-15)
-2010: 8-5
-2011: 10-2
-2012: 7-6
-2013: 3-2

Kelly (31-13)
-2010: 8-5
-2011: 8-5
-2012: 12-1
-2013: 3-2

 

[wizards8507]

I'll amend my rant to say I was just told Kelly isn't the one who spearheaded the change. Which reinforces the idea of him spewing BS recently, but goes against the idea that he's turning directly into Kiffin.

What's worse though? Spearheading change or losing control of your program so that change happens without your say-so?

 

[Grahambo]

What's worse though? Spearheading change or losing control of your program so that change happens without your say-so?

Who has more say so, BK or Swarbrick? BK only has so much power especially against a guy like Swarbrick.

 

[IrishLax]

What's worse though? Spearheading change or losing control of your program so that change happens without your say-so?

Kelly has a boss, like 99.9% of us in this world. So I think "losing control" is a pretty big overstatement. And he obviously signed off on it.

 

[wizards8507]

Who has more say so, BK or Swarbrick? BK only has so much power especially against a guy like Swarbrick.

Kelly has a boss, like 99.9% of us in this world. So I think "losing control" is a pretty big overstatement. And he obviously signed off on it.

Oh we're talking about Swarbrick? I assumed when you said it wasn't BK that it was the captains or something. In that case I have two concerns.

1. What's Swarbrick's point? What is he trying to do?
2. Isn't that some petty bulls**t for the athletic director to be worrying about?

 

[palinurus]

Point of order: can we clarify how long this practice has been going on? I seem to remember the alma mater always being played after games ("always" meaning a lot longer ago than beginning in 2006). Was it 2006 when the team officially began joining the student body? Did the team join the student body on occasion before then? Do we agree on the timeline?

 

[wizards8507]

The Observer wars have begun.

Viewpoint - The Observer - University of Notre Dame and Saint Mary's College

 

[RDU Irish]

The Observer wars have begun.

Viewpoint - The Observer - University of Notre Dame and Saint Mary's College

War requires opposition, no? Those editorials are pretty one sided.

 

[Rack Em]

War requires opposition, no? Those editorials are pretty one sided.

It's one-sided aggression right now. The responses to these one-sided editorials will surface tomorrow and Wednesday.

 

[RDU Irish]

Which should show in comments right now, and really doesn't. If you want to tank the "tradition", send the kids to the locker room for ALL games, not just losses. Makes you look like a pu$$y.

I think a poll would show something like 70% upset, 20% apathy and 10% think the tradition is beyond dumb.

 

[NDohio]

Not really though. Kiffin won with Pete's players. Kelly won largely with Weis' players. Kiffin won 1 year before Kelly, but both did it with the rosters they inherited.

The only players Kelly used last year that were really his guys were Tuitt, Golson, Daniels (in spot duty), Farley (in spot duty due to injury), Russell (injury). I'd argue that IF Notre Dame is bad next year that Kelly will have a very similar trajectory to Kiffin. But he has awhile before it's time to worry about that.

I can agree with that. I just really don't see next year being a dumpster fire like USC has been the last season and a half. If it goes that direction then ......

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Ive talked to a few current students and they see both sides. Some were pissed some werent. Overall consensus is that its for the students not the "fans" and that they will still support the team and continue to have that bond most school do not have with the football team. Fwiw!

Go Irish!