Notre Dame begins accepting illegals

kmoose

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Not sure I like this, as it seems to be "enabling" illegal immigration. If there are no consequences to illegal immigration, then what is the point of having immigration laws? When an illegal immigrant can attend one of the best universities in the country, and get hefty financial aid from that university, then there's not much of a deterrent. But, being a Catholic university, I suppose that this follows the Catholic teachings of treating even "sinners" with compassion and non-bias. Tough choice to make, for the school. I hope it works out well for them.
 

Bluto

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For all the free market types heres a question. If corporations, capital and business entities can move unimpeded through free trade zones shouldn't labor be able to do the same?

Anyhow, good for Notre Dame. This is going to do way more good then harm in my opinion.
 
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GowerND11

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Not sure I like this, as it seems to be "enabling" illegal immigration. If there are no consequences to illegal immigration, then what is the point of having immigration laws? When an illegal immigrant can attend one of the best universities in the country, and get hefty financial aid from that university, then there's not much of a deterrent. But, being a Catholic university, I suppose that this follows the Catholic teachings of treating even "sinners" with compassion and non-bias. Tough choice to make, for the school. I hope it works out well for them.

I feel this is how a lot of people feel. As a Catholic, it makes sense to do this. As one who worries about our immigration laws, I am torn. I just hope this works out in a positive way.
 
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Buster Bluth

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For all the free market types heres a question. If corporations, capital and business entities can move unimpeded through free trade zones shouldn't labor labor be able to do the same?

Except that the labor will receive tens of thousands in benefits for simply living here, so its not quite the same...at all.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Who cares where they're from? Education shouldn't have boundaries.

It's not about admitting Mexicans, or even foreigners, it's about admitting....wait for it....criminals.
 

kmoose

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Who cares where they're from? Education shouldn't have boundaries.


So you think that ND should admit every freshman who applies, and can afford the tuition? Education doesn't have boundaries.......... there are colleges in Mexico, Canada, El Salvador, and just about every single other country in the world. But a NOTRE DAME education does have boundaries, regardless of what country you are from.
 

BobD

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It's not about admitting Mexicans, or even foreigners, it's about admitting....wait for it....criminals.

So you think that ND should admit every freshman who applies, and can afford the tuition? Education doesn't have boundaries.......... there are colleges in Mexico, Canada, El Salvador, and just about every single other country in the world. But a NOTRE DAME education does have boundaries, regardless of what country you are from.

I think Notre Dame should admit whomever they choose, from wherever they choose.
 

Rack Em

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It's not about admitting Mexicans, or even foreigners, it's about admitting....wait for it....criminals.

Winner winner chicken dinner. There are 2 differences between an illegal immigrant being accepted to ND and a convicted felon being accepted to ND:

1) A conviction in a court of law
2) Alumni/fan outrage

Come on guys. If you honestly think that ND is doing this altruistically, I've got ocean front property in Kansas to sell you.

"Hello US New and World Report Rankings, may we move up now?

Sincerely,
Fr. Jenkins"
 

IrishLax

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The comments are high quality.

Holy crap... I wish I hadn't looked below the article. The Washington Times is the conservative alternative to the more renowned, and generally more liberal, Washington Post. So you expect some ridiculous "DEY TUK R JARBS!!"... but some of those comments make me want to vomit.

It's not about admitting Mexicans, or even foreigners, it's about admitting....wait for it....criminals.

Serious question, do you actually consider a young child dragged here by their parents a "criminal"?

Border security/illegal immigration policy and lacrosse are probably my two areas of expertise in life. My first job out of school was working on the $2B Secure Border Initiative... and boy was that eye opening/completely changed many misconceived notions about "illegals."
 

Anchorman

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Few thoughts:

1. Why should ND deny kids whose parents brought them across at no fault of their own?
2. I find the 'criminal' thing laughable. Plenty of people here want to admit Starks, were fine with Floyd, etc. for offenses far more damaging to society than "being five when I crossed the border with my parents" or even "when I was 17 to try to find a better life."
3. Good for ND. Let the most qualified applicants attend. Broadening the pool can only help that. It's also not as if international students aren't already attending, so I don't see a big problem here.
 

Emcee77

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Criminals? I think there may be some confusion here. Some "illegal" immigrants are criminals ... the ones who commit crimes. But merely being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime. You cannot be "convicted" of being an illegal immigrant. It violates no criminal statute I know of. True, the government has the power to remove such people by initiating civil proceedings against them, but that doesn't make them criminals. They could not be charged with violating any criminal statute by a prosecutor or grand jury, and they could not be prosecuted for committing any offense punishable by fine or prison sentence, merely because they are in this country.

I think that's an important distinction, because many "illegal" immigrants have done nothing wrong except be born to parents who brought them from Mexico (or another country) to the U.S. without proper documentation. If ND believes that there are kids in that category who are likely to be successful and worth investing the university's resources in teaching and training, why not let them in?

I've noticed a lot of people on this board treat admission to ND like a reward for good moral conduct. I could be wrong but I don't think that's how ND's admissions people look at it. I think most admissions professionals look at a student as an investment opportunity ... is this person likely to be successful and someone that we will be proud to call a ND graduate someday? That your parents may have done something that you are politically opposed to really doesn't have much bearing on that question.

Suppose you have a kid like that ... brought to the U.S. at the age of 5, worked hard in school, proved to be an exceptional student, crushed his ACT, stayed out of trouble, earned a scholarship to college. This kid's done nothing wrong. If ND thinks he is likely to be a successful person, why shouldn't it admit him?
 

PerthDomer

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Do they get need blind admissions? Foreign applicants don't get need blind admissions. If illegals do, then ND is going to reduce the amount of $$$ spent on everyone else for financial aid. (ND meets "full need" but what that is depends on what ND decides need is.)
 

stlnd01

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Few thoughts:

1. Why should ND deny kids whose parents brought them across at no fault of their own?
2. I find the 'criminal' thing laughable. Plenty of people here want to admit Starks, were fine with Floyd, etc. for offenses far more damaging to society than "being five when I crossed the border with my parents" or even "when I was 17 to try to find a better life."
3. Good for ND. Let the most qualified applicants attend. Broadening the pool can only help that. It's also not as if international students aren't already attending, so I don't see a big problem here.

This.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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Why do I already feel a headache coming on knowing that Pat is about to read this thread?
 
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Buster Bluth

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Serious question, do you actually consider a young child dragged here by their parents a "criminal"?

Not at all, nor do I consider their parents criminals. Just human beings trying to have a better life.

I was merely clarifying the concern here, not issuing my position on the matter. This isn't about admitting Mexicans, it's about admitting people who aren't supposed to be in this country legally in the first place. On one hand, it is the Catholic thing to do, on the other it's aiding lawbreakers, no?

I'm all for it, but I'm even more all for giving a quick path to citizenship for all of them already here.
 

Bluto

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Except that the labor will receive tens of thousands in benefits for simply living here, so its not quite the same...at all.

It is the same actually. Said corporations and capital receive billions in the form of a cheap and easily exploited labor pool along with little to no environmental regulation. Labor is part of the market economy. If you are going to create a "free market" that freedom should apply to labor as well. If people are uncomfortable with that they should be pushing for policies that create consistent and enforceable labor and environmental regulations across the board in that free trade zone or eliminate said regulations completely.
 

Domina Nostra

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Higher education, like business, is for the elite and whoever they want to condescend to invite to the table. Liberal elites love immigration because they vote democrat and keep them in power. They appeal to the base's humanitarian Instincts to support the cause, despite its not always obvious benefits for core groups like unions and unskilled American workers. Conservative elite love the cheap labor that keep them profitable. They don't bother to make a case to their base, they just purposefully thwart opposition to the liberals.

The rich and connected will continue to get into ND. The group that is not popular with the liberal or conservative elite right now is middle class America. That is who this will hurt, at least marginally.

It's pretty simple, American policy and American institutions should favor Americans. ND should not leapfrog over legal citizens, especially tjose from humble backgrounds, to educate the children of foreigners who have thwarted our laws. The fact that this is controversial is pretty discouraging.
 

Anchorman

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Higher education, like business, is for the elite and whoever they want to condescend to invite to the table. Liberal elites love immigration because they vote democrat and keep them in power. They appeal to the base's humanitarian Instincts to support the cause, despite its not always obvious benefits for core groups like unions and unskilled American workers. Conservative elite love the cheap labor that keep them profitable. They don't bother to make a case to their base, they just purposefully thwart opposition to the liberals.

The rich and connected will continue to get into ND. The group that is not popular with the liberal or conservative elite right now is middle class America. That is who this will hurt, at least marginally.

It's pretty simple, American policy and American institutions should favor Americans. ND should not leapfrog over legal citizens, especially those from humble backgrounds, to educate the children of foreigners who have thwarted our laws. The fact that this is controversial is pretty discouraging.

As a middle class, relatively independent, non-"elite", I can wholeheartedly endorse this post as a pile of ****.

Notre Dame, much like the Catholic Church, isn't a solely 'American' institution. We have students from everywhere. Moreover, why should the children of foreigners who have 'thwarted our laws' be treated worse than I? What have they done wrong? Legally or not, this is the country that is their home.

And as Buster said, a quicker path to citizenship would solve a lot of these problems. You're not going to be able to deport millions (not that that would be the right move), and you can't just have a second-class group of people who you offer no opportunity nor recourse to.
 
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ACamp1900

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It's the right of a private entity to do as they please... My issue would come from granting A1 status to them over " qualified" American students in terms of aid and admittance... I'd have issue with THAT... Aside from that,.....

Yawn
 

T Town Tommy

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A private entity in the US still does not supercede federal law. Illegal immigrants are just that... illegal. I don't really agree with ND's stance here. All for helping any person with getting an education at ND or any other school but it should be done without breaking any federal statutes.
 
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Does anyone have info on the time span of the illegal immigration to US from Mexico post Reagan?

I know Reagan allowed a couple million a chance at citizenship in the 80's.

Edit: I worded that weird. I'm looking for info on the numbers of immigrants per year Post-Reagan.
 
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ACamp1900

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A private entity in the US still does not supercede federal law. Illegal immigrants are just that... illegal. I don't really agree with ND's stance here. All for helping any person with getting an education at ND or any other school but it should be done without breaking any federal statutes.

Yes, but we all know where that leads in this day and age...
 

IrishLax

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A private entity in the US still does not supercede federal law. Illegal immigrants are just that... illegal. I don't really agree with ND's stance here. All for helping any person with getting an education at ND or any other school but it should be done without breaking any federal statutes.

Yeah except they aren't "illegal"... they're just a citizen of Mexico, and why would you have a policy against admitting Mexican citizens? There is no law being broken by allowing an "illegal" to study at a school... they'd just do it on a student visa if they had to.

The only illegal act would be when their parents dragged them across the border as a child... if you want to get up in arms about that, fine... but what the prospective student did "wrong" doesn't even amount to a parking ticket.
 
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