'11 CA DE/OT Troy Niklas (Signed Notre Dame LOI)

[Kak7304]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>It's not hard to push a practice sled over lol relax.... Just sayin</p>— Bennett Jackson Jr. (@B_Jax2) <a href="https://twitter.com/B_Jax2/statuses/363902219340353536">August 4, 2013</a></blockquote>
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BJAX saw it too.

BJAX is right. We flipped over a 5-man blocking sled in high school. All you have to do is have a moderate amount of strength, hit, and lift.

 

[BGIF]

From ITI. What was it exactly that had the staff move him to TE, a lack of depth there? I'm not second guessing the move, just curious. With his measurables, he'd make a helluva pass rushing DE wouldn't he? Bigger, stronger and likely faster than a certain Lynch character that donned the Blue and Gold for a year (not saying he had the inate pass rushing ability that Lynch had, just comparing physically). Thoughts?

Niklas could be next great Irish tight end | Inside the Irish

Aside from Eifert there were bodies at TE, Welch, Koyack, and Golic, but not performance - receiving or blocking. And with Eifert split out often, he wasn't in position to be the "Sixth OL" even if he had the capability.

Yes, Troy got beat in the Stanford game. Which ND TE on the Roster would have done better? None.

Golic was never going to be an impact player.

Welch now has 1 catch for 8 Yds in 3 seasons on campus. Yes, he was injured all of last year but aside from his HS clipping there has not been a sign that he was going to be a Go To Guy, catching or blocking. Wasn't Kelly brilliant, in retrospect, moving Troy before the injury?

Koyack now has 4 catches in 2 seasons for 44 Yds and no TDs. Yes, he still has potential BUT with his pedigree sophomore year is supposed to a plateau raiser. It didn't happen. Did Kelly or Martin, as the new O.C., foresee a slower development than everyone expected?

Niklas didn't burn up the field last year but his 5 catches for 75 Yds and 1 TD in his first season at TE EXCEEDS the performance of the CAREERS of Koyack, Welch, and Golic.

His blocking, while in need of improvement, was as good as his more experienced TE peers.


He was a plus in '12 at TE and wasn't missed on defense while creating PT for another talented athlete upgrading overall strength of the team. Prudent move short term.

Smart move long term as Niklas will be a more polished player as a Jr, as will Koyack. I expect the pair will meet or exceed Eifert's 50 catches.

Twin Towers in the Red Zone Passing Game or a 7 man OLine Front for the Rushing Game. Martin's got to like the flexibility and challenges they present to DCs.

 

[Zwidmanio]

Wasn't the Stanford game an aberration though? I thought he was a dominant blocker for most of the season and can remember Mayock singing his praises on several occasions, even as he continuously got beat by that All-American Thomas.

Personally, I wish he had stayed on D for the simple fact he'd be fun to watch. Outside of Clowney, there may not be a more impressive physical specimen in the country.

From my rough recollection, I think Niklas was an overall good (maybe not dominant) run blocker and would do well once engaged due to his superior athletic ability. That being said, I think he needed some improvement in his pass blocking - the Stanford game providing the most egregious examples of this.

All this being said, I think that once he gets his technique down he could be a dominant blocker (and overall TE) because his athletic ability and size is superior. He's practically the size of a lineman without the fat. Crazy.

As to you second thought, sure, it'd be great to watch him on defense, but as long as he continues developing as a TE and makes the contribution that he's capable of I'll be a happy man. ND has recently had a great string of TEs and I feel that he's next in line. We've got some pretty exciting physical specimens lining up on the other side of the ball too. Gotta spread them out a bit I suppose.

 

[jmurphy75]

From ITI. What was it exactly that had the staff move him to TE, a lack of depth there? I'm not second guessing the move, just curious. With his measurables, he'd make a helluva pass rushing DE wouldn't he? Bigger, stronger and likely faster than a certain Lynch character that donned the Blue and Gold for a year (not saying he had the inate pass rushing ability that Lynch had, just comparing physically). Thoughts?

Niklas could be next great Irish tight end | Inside the Irish

If I'm not mistaken it also had something to do with a couple of head injuries as well that happened with him on D.

 

[irishog77]

Aside from Eifert there were bodies at TE, Welch, Koyack, and Golic, but not performance - receiving or blocking. And with Eifert split out often, he wasn't in position to be the "Sixth OL" even if he had the capability.

Yes, Troy got beat in the Stanford game. Which ND TE on the Roster would have done better? None.

Golic was never going to be an impact player.

Welch now has 1 catch for 8 Yds in 3 seasons on campus. Yes, he was injured all of last year but aside from his HS clipping there has not been a sign that he was going to be a Go To Guy, catching or blocking. Wasn't Kelly brilliant, in retrospect, moving Troy before the injury?

Koyack now has 4 catches in 2 seasons for 44 Yds and no TDs. Yes, he still has potential BUT with his pedigree sophomore year is supposed to a plateau raiser. It didn't happen. Did Kelly or Martin, as the new O.C., foresee a slower development than everyone expected?

Niklas didn't burn up the field last year but his 5 catches for 75 Yds and 1 TD in his first season at TE EXCEEDS the performance of the CAREERS of Koyack, Welch, and Golic.

His blocking, while in need of improvement, was as good as his more experienced TE peers.


He was a plus in '12 at TE and wasn't missed on defense while creating PT for another talented athlete upgrading overall strength of the team. Prudent move short term.

Smart move long term as Niklas will be a more polished player as a Jr, as will Koyack. I expect the pair will meet or exceed Eifert's 50 catches.

Twin Towers in the Red Zone Passing Game or a 7 man OLine Front for the Rushing Game. Martin's got to like the flexibility and challenges they present to DCs.

Wow-- that's crazy. Definitely gives some perspective.

 

[NDWorld247]

From my rough recollection, I think Niklas was an overall good (maybe not dominant) run blocker and would do well once engaged due to his superior athletic ability. That being said, I think he needed some improvement in his pass blocking - the Stanford game providing the most egregious examples of this.

All this being said, I think that once he gets his technique down he could be a dominant blocker (and overall TE) because his athletic ability and size is superior. He's practically the size of a lineman without the fat. Crazy.

Dominant was probably too strong of a word choice on my part. It's tough to really judge blocking performance unless you're really looking for it during a broadcast, but I just remember Mayock raving about him almost every game. He may have been raving about his potential moreso than what he was doing in 2012. His pass blocking was definitely exposed by Stanford's All-American OLB. I share your optimism on his potential though. I think we'll see a much improved all around TE in 2013.

As to you second thought, sure, it'd be great to watch him on defense, but as long as he continues developing as a TE and makes the contribution that he's capable of I'll be a happy man. ND has recently had a great string of TEs and I feel that he's next in line. We've got some pretty exciting physical specimens lining up on the other side of the ball too. Gotta spread them out a bit I suppose.

Agreed. As fun as it would be to see him wreak havoc on defense, it will be just as fun to watch him on offense if Tommy can get him involved more in the passing game. He has Gronkowski-esqe potential, and as a New England fan, Gronk is definitely fun to watch.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I agree with everything on this page except two things. I don't think Niklas's problem was as concussion oriented as originally reported, after he was diagnosed with severe migraine headaches. Turns out that was the source of his problem so the head shots were over-reported.

Welch is a matter of timing. I don't know about Koyack. But Welch with Rudolph and Eifert, had three major injuries in two years. I am not mitigating BGIF's point at all. No one could figure him to come back after that. Instead I am going to say that he did, and build on BGIF's point.

Not only did Kelly show genius in moving Niklas like BGIF said; but, with one or two of Koyack, and Welch working out, Kelly has two of the top ten college TE's (based upon what we all hope is their production level this year). This is exactly where he wanted to end up three years ago, so he visualized his goal and designed a plan with bold moves to get there. And he has Heuerman, and Smythe ready to step in down the line.

EDIT: I think both Koyack and Welch will pan out this year because A) They have top talent; B) Kelly develops talent, that is just what he does; C) Kelly put them in a system with Niklas who will blossom this year, where they were in a strong position to succeed.

 

[Old Man Mike]

BGIF is correct {as usual} about Niklas. Whether Diaco wanted to keep him or not, everyone [particularly on IE] was having doubts as to whether he "fit" anywhere on defense at all. Kelly {also as usual} made the brilliant shift to get an elite athlete on the field in game-significant reps immediately. Plus, this is probably the best shift for ensuring the big man a long glorious NFL career ultimately.

 

[irishog77]

I agree with everything on this page except two things. I don't think Niklas's problem was as concussion oriented as originally reported, after he was diagnosed with severe migraine headaches. Turns out that was the source of his problem so the head shots were over-reported.

Welch is a matter of timing. I don't know about Koyack. But Welch with Rudolph and Eifert, had three major injuries in two years. I am not mitigating BGIF's point at all. No one could figure him to come back after that. Instead I am going to say that he did, and build on BGIF's point.

Not only did Kelly show genius in moving Niklas like BGIF said; but, with one or two of Koyack, and Welch working out, Kelly has two of the top ten college TE's. This is exactly where he wanted to end up three years ago. And he has Heuerman, and Smythe ready to step in down the line.

Not sure about that. I like all the TE's on the roster, but I'm skeptical to proclaim any of them Top 10...let alone 2 of them...before they produce a little more on the field.

If what you're saying is that if Niklas and/or Welch and/or Koyak play like we HOPE they will...then yeah-- could be very good things for the offense and team overall.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Not sure about that. I like all the TE's on the roster, but I'm skeptical to proclaim any of them Top 10...let alone 2 of them...before they produce a little more on the field.

If what you're saying is that if Niklas and/or Welch and/or Koyak play like we HOPE they will...then yeah-- could be very good things for the offense and team overall.

Wait, you don't think we should project that a guy with 4 career catches will be a top 10 TE this year? Or that a guy with ONE career catch will be a top 10 TE this year?

Imagine if a Michigan fan said that about their TE's if they only had 10 catches between the 3 of them? We'd be laughing our arses off at them. But because a certain poster posts hyperbolic statements like that all the time, nobody bats an eyelash. Then again, this is the same guy who trolls this site by admittedly saying stupid, over-the-top things on purpose because "no one pays attention to him and there are so few consequences" lol.

Bottom line...if Troy is a top 10 TE this year, coming off a 5 reception year, that will be AWESOME for the program. He has the talent to do it. So does Koyack, but he has yet to put it together. And Welch is coming off a major injury. I'd bet my life that ND doesn't have TWO top 10 TE's next year. I'd be more than happy to settle for one...

 

[NDdomer2]

Wait, you don't think we should project that a guy with 4 career catches will be a top 10 TE this year? Or that a guy with ONE career catch will be a top 10 TE this year?

Bottom line...if Troy is a top 10 TE this year, coming off a 5 reception year, that will be AWESOME for the program. He has the talent to do it. So does Koyack, but he has yet to put it together. And Welch is coming off a major injury. I'd bet my life that ND doesn't have TWO top 10 TE's next year. I'd be more than happy to settle for one...

I am not counting on any top 10 TE coming out this year but I think our TE's collectively give us some good weapons.

I think it is similar to the RB situation where BK said something about them having to "accept their role." What those roles are going to be are yet to be seen. However, I would imagine Troy to be in on running downs. Is he going to be our redzone guy? That may be for someone else.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Imagine if a Michigan fan said that about their TE's if they only had 10 catches between the 3 of them? We'd be laughing our arses off at them. But because a certain poster posts hyperbolic like all the time, nobody bats an eyelash. Then again, this is the same guy who trolls this site by admittedly saying stupid, over-the-top things on purpose because no one listens to him lol.

Well, we do have (1) a history of excellent TE production, (2) which attracts great TE talent, (3) which means that otherwise excellent TEs have to take a backseat to guys like Tyler Eifert. That's a big factor.

If someone at Alabama told me that Eddie Lacey--or whoever the previous third-string RB was--was going to be a Top 10 RB some year, I wouldn't laugh my arse off. Playing behind Richardson and Ingram makes it hard to get the ball. They have a good system.

Now two in the same year is a horse of a different color...

 

[STLDomer]

No way this year we have two of the Top 10 TEs. Next year? Maybe

 

[Bogtrotter07]

As I started all of this with my comments, I obviously meant this as a Kelly goal, not an imminent prediction. As usual, someone had to stir things up.

DN, has the key point. Anyone from me to STL, or ND2-3-or-4, who guesses just doesn't know for sure. I think the Lacey situation is a perfect analogy. Any one that is a decrier of ND's position, stating that Eifert is gone is short of the mark. And no one can say positively for certitude, that is why we play the game.

But I think it is Kelly's intermediate goal for ND to dominate the Tight End position, with the direction of his offensive schemes. You can kill good defenses with two good TEs. (That is why in my original post on this topic I mentioned Heuerman and Smythe.)

Thinking about the criticism of over promoting ND's Tight ends, the better question is, "If there is any team who has no proven Tight End who has more potential to dominate teams with their current depth charts as they stand, with multiple tight end formations, who it is?"

 

[NDinL.A.]

Well, we do have (1) a history of excellent TE production, (2) which attracts great TE talent, (3) which means that otherwise excellent TEs have to take a backseat to guys like Tyler Eifert. That's a big factor.

If someone at Alabama told me that Eddie Lacey--or whoever the previous third-string RB was--was going to be a Top 10 RB some year, I wouldn't laugh my arse off. Playing behind Richardson and Ingram makes it hard to get the ball. They have a good system.

Now two in the same year is a horse of a different color...

That's exactly what I'm saying. I was talking to a USC buddy of mine and telling him how I think Troy will be an elite TE this year. But two?

That's making a HUGE leap, asking 2 guys who have never caught more than 5 balls in a single season to BOTH jump to about 50 catches each.

Just last year, the top 10 TE's as far as receptions had the following amount of receptions:

69, 69, 57, 57, 53, 50, 50, 47, 46, 45.

If we threw the out TE's THAT many times, to get to 100 receptions between them, what happens to TJ Jones and Davaris Daniels? And CJ Procise and Amir Carlisle? And the RBs coming out of the backfield? And any other breakout freshman? And don't forget that we want to run the ball a lot this year, if possible.

It's just too big a leap to go from a few catches to 45-50 in one season for two players, especially considering the other weapons we have around them.

Edit: No one is 'stirring things up', other than one person, who "says things for effect", and well, this is the effect. It's a message board, deal with it. You said yet another over-the-top thing, and people have responded. I wasn't the only one, nor was I the first.

 

[NDdomer2]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I was talking to a USC buddy of mine and telling him how I think Troy will be an elite TE this year. But two?

That's making a HUGE leap, asking 2 guys who have never caught more than 5 balls in a single season to BOTH jump to about 50 catches each.

Just last year, the top 10 TE's as far as receptions had the following amount of receptions:

69, 69, 57, 57, 53, 50, 50, 47, 46, 45.

If we threw the out TE's THAT many times, to get to 100 receptions between them, what happens to TJ Jones and Davaris Daniels? And CJ Procise and Amir Carlisle? And the RBs coming out of the backfield? And any other breakout freshman? And don't forget that we want to run the ball a lot this year, if possible.

It's just too big a leap to go from a few catches to 45-50 in one season for two players, especially considering the other weapons we have around them.

It is a very large leap. I would be pumped if Niklas had 25-30 with around 3/4 tds and another TE/or combo had 20-25 catches with a couple tds

That would put the position around 45-55 catches with 5/7 tds.

Eifert had 50/685/4 last year. Niklas/Koyack were 8/98/1. A combined 58/783/5.

I think the biggest thing we will lose is that down the field stretch we had in Eifert. Can Niklas/Koyack/Welch stretch the field the same way?

 

[Old Man Mike]

Niklas COULD be a dominant redzone weapon, but he, or anyone else, has to learn at least one of Eifert's two supranormal talents:

a]. out-jump and highpoint the ball over anyone else on the field [almost always as a corner route]; and/or

b]. do what was for me the most astonishing body-awareness and hidden-strength cleverness I've ever seen consistently in football: shield defenders from the flight of the ball, sometimes to the utter embarrassment of even good players.

I was simply boggled by how effective Eifert was at "basketball rebound screening techniques" walling off defenders. THIS more than his high-in-the-air skills was the reason that he HAD to be double-teamed.

My point on Niklas, or Koyack, or Welch, is that it was not Eifert's size nor even jumping ability which made him the greatest TE in the nation. Those three guys must develop his "tricks".

 

[NDBoiler]

It is a very large leap. I would be pumped if Niklas had 25-30 with around 3/4 tds and another TE had 20-25 catches with a couple tds

That would put the position around 45-55 catches with 5/7 tds.

Eifert had 50/685/4 last year. Niklas/Koyack were 8/98/1. A combined 58/783/5.

I think the biggest thing we will lose is that down the field stretch we had in Eifert. Can Niklas/Koyack/Welch stretch the field the same way?

I re-watched the BYU game from last year over the weekend and the same thing that struck me was the 1 on 1 jump balls to Eifert, and if Troy/Koyack were capable of doing the same with their size. TR also did a great job in that game of recognizing the coverage on Eifert and the opportunity to do that, but we haven't really seen if any of the current TE's have that ability consistently, which would then also impact TR's decision making too if they don't have the same athleticism in that area.

 

[BGIF]

Both Niklas and Koyack are on the Mackey Watch List, 2 guys in a list of 37.

Both will not finish in the Top 10.

I doubt either gets enough passes thrown to him to move up among the leaders.

http://www.johnmackeyaward.com/images/340_2013_John_Mackey_Watch_List_in_Image_Form_FINAL.jpg


I'm inclined to agree with Whiskey on a base 12 but the slot's PT will increase as the season moves on.

The TE's will not get Eifert's pass allocation as he was frequently split out and actually could function as a WR.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Niklas COULD be a dominant redzone weapon, but he, or anyone else, has to learn at least one of Eifert's two supranormal talents:

a]. out-jump and highpoint the ball over anyone else on the field [almost always as a corner route]; and/or

b]. do what was for me the most astonishing body-awareness and hidden-strength cleverness I've ever seen consistently in football: shield defenders from the flight of the ball, sometimes to the utter embarrassment of even good players.

I was simply boggled by how effective Eifert was at "basketball rebound screening techniques" walling off defenders. THIS more than his high-in-the-air skills was the reason that he HAD to be double-teamed.

My point on Niklas, or Koyack, or Welch, is that it was not Eifert's size nor even jumping ability which made him the greatest TE in the nation. Those three guys must develop his "tricks".

Good point Mike. On top of that Niklas has something a tight end at ND hasn't had since who? Anthony Fasano? We have a Tight End who has the potential to tuck away the ball and run over people. Not just people in the third level, people in the second leve.

I don't know how splashy the tight ends at ND are going to be this year, but Niklas and Koyack have the potential to skewer small linebackers. The next step after shielding the ball with their bodies, which Corey Robinson and James Onwualu among others have, also.

 

[NDBoiler]

Both Niklas and Koyack are on the Mackey Watch List, 2 guys in a list of 37.

Both will not finish in the Top 10.

I doubt either gets enough passes thrown to him to move up among the leaders.

http://www.johnmackeyaward.com/images/340_2013_John_Mackey_Watch_List_in_Image_Form_FINAL.jpg


I'm inclined to agree with Whiskey on a base 12 but the slot's PT will increase as the season moves on.

The TE's will not get Eifert's pass allocation as he was frequently split out and actually could function as a WR.

That's a good point BGIF. I don't know if it has been discussed much anywhere, but should we expect Troy to be split out like that very much, or is he going to be starting off inline mostly?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Let's be honest - if Niklas gets 50 targets this year we've got problems.

TJ/Daniels/[Slot] need to be getting some of these.

 

[BGIF]

Niklas COULD be a dominant redzone weapon, but he, or anyone else, has to learn at least one of Eifert's two supranormal talents:

a]. out-jump and highpoint the ball over anyone else on the field [almost always as a corner route]; and/or

b]. do what was for me the most astonishing body-awareness and hidden-strength cleverness I've ever seen consistently in football: shield defenders from the flight of the ball, sometimes to the utter embarrassment of even good players.

I was simply boggled by how effective Eifert was at "basketball rebound screening techniques" walling off defenders. THIS more than his high-in-the-air skills was the reason that he HAD to be double-teamed.

My point on Niklas, or Koyack, or Welch, is that it was not Eifert's size nor even jumping ability which made him the greatest TE in the nation. Those three guys must develop his "tricks".

ND has had a consistent HT advantage in the Red Zone under Kelly but hasn't capitalized on it. Hopefully Martin will work with his receivers and QBs to make it happen.

The deficient TD scoring in the Red Zone is a bigger problem than the much discussed punt return team. It has a far bigger impact and is readily fixable.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Isn't the biggest advantages of two tight ends a chance to defeat the strength of a 4-3 defense, and the ability to negate a nickel and other change package?

Doesn't it help a QB like Tommy, (with perceived shortcomings?)

Wouldn't the split role best be served by the tall WR's we have Smith, Robinson, etc?

Isn't Koyack the one of the Tight Ends that has been split the most?

 

[Wild Bill]

If niklas can pin a defensive end without help from a tackle and set the edge in the run game, block middle linebackers consistently, and reels in 8 TDs this year, he'll be my All-American.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Niklas COULD be a dominant redzone weapon, but he, or anyone else, has to learn at least one of Eifert's two supranormal talents:

a]. out-jump and highpoint the ball over anyone else on the field [almost always as a corner route]; and/or

b]. do what was for me the most astonishing body-awareness and hidden-strength cleverness I've ever seen consistently in football: shield defenders from the flight of the ball, sometimes to the utter embarrassment of even good players.

I was simply boggled by how effective Eifert was at "basketball rebound screening techniques" walling off defenders. THIS more than his high-in-the-air skills was the reason that he HAD to be double-teamed.

My point on Niklas, or Koyack, or Welch, is that it was not Eifert's size nor even jumping ability which made him the greatest TE in the nation. Those three guys must develop his "tricks".

Truth. Even in the Championship game, I thought Eifert had the better of Dee Milner (top 10 draft pick) IMO because Eifert had the height advantage as well as the body control to maximize it. Niklas played decently well last year, he needs to learn to use his body in the receiving game and pass block effectively against polished pass rushers.

 

[Domina Nostra]

My prediction on Niklas: I am not sure exactly what his season will look like, but it will look darn good.

The kid is a physical freak, a true-blue gym rat, has soft hands, and loves contact. He got on the field before he was probably ready because he is such a freak and such an effort player, but that shouldn't be a knock against him. Long story short, most college defenses just can't cope with that kind of player one-on-one, so he should be disproportionately invovled in the offense. While he brings a different look than Eifert, he will be similarly dominant.

 

[NDdomer2]

Let's be honest - if Niklas gets 50 targets this year we've got problems.

TJ/Daniels/[Slot] need to be getting some of these.

If Niklas comes out playing like Gronk and is just a beast blocking and receiving I hope he gets 50 targets. But I understand what you were saying.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

For me personally, blocking in line, blocking down field, shielding db's from the ball, and crushing db's and backers down field is it for Niklas and Koyack. Every touchdown is icing on the cake!

 

[yankeeND]

If Niklas comes out playing like Gronk and is just a beast blocking and receiving I hope he gets 50 targets. But I understand what you were saying.

Would be great to see him amass 50 targets... as long as they are in the redzone