Detroit Files for Bankruptcy

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Buster Bluth

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Race relations is a way better way to put it. The white people that left the city over the years, did so because they could afford to. The same applies to the Black people (for the most part). The black people didn't leave the city, are the ones that either can't afford to move out to the suburbs. Smart people (both black, white and hispanic) don't live in the city because there are virtually no services and other things people need to live (grocery stores, power is spotty, garbage pickup is iffy and good schools are non-existent).

Like I said, race relations is a better way to put it than racism but the problem is goes much deeper.

Agreed. I think it's also important to point out that wanting to move out of the city and wanting to move out of the neighborhood are two different things. But Detroit didn't take action to annex, and Detroiters didn't have an option of any good neighborhoods to move to. People in other cities did, and it kept a portion of the taxes in those cities.

To add to that, in the 1970s when the gentrification started happening in cities (when we began to realize that sprawl was destroying our country...but that's a convo for a different time), Detroit had no policies to facilitate it and race relations inhibited progress on that front too. Poot minorities often don't see gentrification as progress, so it's easy to see why it didn't happen.
 
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Cackalacky

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Read further. Most inner cities are indeed black, that's not the issue per se. It's an issue when the wealth moves out of the city, which is why most of our biggest cities struggle financially.

Detroit is worse in terms of it's geographical and political segregation. Cleveland is 53% black, Chicago is 32% black, Columbus is 28% black, Toledo is 27% black. Detroit is 83% black. That's more than unusual.

Again, Detroit is what happens when you do nothing to mitigate the effects of sprawl. ALL of the wealth moved out of the city and it crumbled underneath its own weight. Race relations and the lack of cooperation and trust only exacerbate their problems, which is why it's a tertiary issue.
I did not intend to infer it was "the issue", I just was amazed to see the pockets of division in all the major cities.

On a different track, downtown Charleston peninsula is undergoing a demo shift where the whites are now flooding into the rundown neighborhoods, demolishing the freedman's house (post Reconstruction era) and building mixed use areas. Black people are literally being moved out because of rezoning, insurance premiums for flooding, and choosing to take a small payday on their lots.

Exaxmple of an old freedman neighborhood
1308239_17.jpg


to this
1122258_0.jpg
 
C

Cackalacky

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TIL Detroit's mayor has been a Democrat every year since 1962. Just a interesting statistic.

Not taking a shot at you but this is the type of post that just makes my blood boil. None of this is as simple as that, as Buster has illuminated, effectively I might add. Its not even a statistic.

If you are being glib, I apologize.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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I did not intend to infer it was "the issue", I just was amazed to see the pockets of division in all the major cities.

On a different track, downtown Charleston peninsula is undergoing a demo shift where the whites are now flooding into the rundown neighborhoods, demolishing the freedman's house (post Reconstruction era) and building mixed use areas. Black people are literally being moved out because of rezoning, insurance premiums for flooding, and choosing to take a small payday on their lots.

Exaxmple of an old freedman neighborhood
1308239_17.jpg


to this
1122258_0.jpg

My ex-girlfriend just moved to Charleston, so that place can burn to the ground. ;)

But that is certainly the downside of gentrification. More on that later, I'm busy at work haha
 

Irish Houstonian

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Right, when white people leave a city it's called "white flight".

When white people move into a city, it's called "gentrification".

The lesson being, of course, that if you're white you should never move anywhere. Just stay in your homes and enjoy your weekend trips to The Gap and Bed Bath and Beyond.
 
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Cackalacky

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Right, when white people leave a city it's called "white flight".

When white people move into a city, it's called "gentrification".

The lesson being, of course, that if you're white you should never move anywhere. Just stay in your homes and enjoy your weekend trips to The Gap and Bed Bath and Beyond.

Frank the Tank agrees with you. There was also the Great Migration where blacks left the south for northern industrial cities. Does that make you feel better?

You understand that whites left because of a housing shortage in the cities from the influx of other races into the cities after WWII. They had money, jobs, and cars and were therefore able to sprawl and flew into the suburbs. So yes, one could accurately call that a white flight.
 
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Cackalacky

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My ex-girlfriend just moved to Charleston, so that place can burn to the ground. ;)

But that is certainly the downside of gentrification. More on that later, I'm busy at work haha

With your education and what is going on here I think you would be in heaven. Sorry about your girl, don't hate the game hate the playa.
 

Irish Houstonian

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Frank the Tank agrees with you. There was also the Great Migration where blacks left the south for northern industrial cities. Does that make you feel better?

You understand that whites left because of a housing shortage in the cities from the influx of other races into the cities after WWII. They had money, jobs, and cars and were therefore able to sprawl and flew into the suburbs. So yes, one could accurately call that a white flight.

??? My point is that people should be able to move as they please, even if they are White. Your response seems a bit drug-induced.
 
C

Cackalacky

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??? My point is that people should be able to move as they please, even if they are White. Your response seems a bit drug-induced.
frank-the-tank_thumb.jpg
"Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot. Yeah, buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath, & Beyond, I don't know, I don't know if we'll have enough time."

wiki - "In the 1970s, attempts to achieve effective desegregation by means of forced busing in some areas led to more families' moving out of former areas.[10][11] Migration of middle-class white populations was observed during the 1950s and 1960s out of cities such as Detroit and Cleveland, although racial segregation of public schools had ended there long before the U.S. Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education. More generally, some historians suggest that white flight occurred in response to population pressures, both from the large migration of blacks from the rural South to northern cities in the Great Migration and the waves of new immigrants from southern and eastern Europe.[12] "

"Between 1910 and 1930, the African-American population increased by about forty percent in Northern states as a result of the migration, mostly in the major cities. Cities including Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and New York City had some of the biggest increases in the early part of the 20th century. Blacks were recruited for industrial jobs, such as positions with the expansion of the Pennsylvania Railroad. Because changes were concentrated in cities, which had also attracted millions of new or recent European immigrants, tensions rose as the people competed for jobs and housing. Tensions were often most severe between ethnic Irish, defending their recently gained positions and territory, and recent immigrants and blacks.
African-Americans moved as individuals or small family groups. There was no government assistance, but often northern industries, such as the railroads, meatpacking, and stockyards recruited people. The primary push factors for migration were segregation, the widespread violence of lynching, and lack of opportunities in the South. Nearly 3,500 African-Americans were lynched between 1882 and 1968.[8] In the North, they could find better schools and adult men could vote (joined by women after 1920). Burgeoning industries created job opportunities."

Nothing is stopping white people from doing anything. They flew away with the cars and highways to suburbia.....
post_war_economic_boom.jpg
 
B

Buster Bluth

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??? My point is that people should be able to move as they please, even if they are White. Your response seems a bit drug-induced.

Agreed, but let's not ignore the problems we've created. And furthermore, let's not pretend that the federal government's policies aren't heavily slanted towards aiding developers and facilitating sprawl. We can't continue to pretend that expressways and new malls create wealth, they don't.

If a suburb wants to grow and needs an expressway to facilitate it, the suburb(s) should be paying for it, not the federal government. It's hypocritical to fund the very thing that will destroy major cities and them complain when we need funding as the city collapses and/or rebuilds.

Mostly, we can't pretend like the highway construction of the 50s and 60s, and the Urban Renewal strategy that followed aren't the biggest wastes of wherewithal in the history of the world. We destroyed more than a trillion dollars worth of real estate, so Americans could get their ball and chain--errr, excuse me, mortgage, and attempt to isolate themselves from society.
 

Wild Bill

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Buster Bluth;1064465]Agreed, but let's not ignore the problems we've created. And furthermore, let's not pretend that the federal government's policies aren't heavily slanted towards aiding developers and facilitating sprawl. We can't continue to pretend that expressways and new malls create wealth, they don't.

Whites?
 

Irish Houstonian

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Fair enough, but every policy has winners as well as losers. More highways mean a lot of people have more and cheaper housing options, so they're winners and they're all for it. A lot of merchants get goods delivered cheaper, so they're winners too. But the downtown areas, residents, landowners, tax bases, etc. are all losers and they're all against it. I guess that's why they play the games.

And I have no problem with a suburb paying for a necessary road, as long as their residents are the only ones who get to use it...Obviously, that's not how Interstates work. I don't even think that would be possible.
 

irishog77

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Agreed, but let's not ignore the problems we've created. And furthermore, let's not pretend that the federal government's policies aren't heavily slanted towards aiding developers and facilitating sprawl. We can't continue to pretend that expressways and new malls create wealth, they don't.

If a suburb wants to grow and needs an expressway to facilitate it, the suburb(s) should be paying for it, not the federal government. It's hypocritical to fund the very thing that will destroy major cities and them complain when we need funding as the city collapses and/or rebuilds.

Mostly, we can't pretend like the highway construction of the 50s and 60s, and the Urban Renewal strategy that followed aren't the biggest wastes of wherewithal in the history of the world. We destroyed more than a trillion dollars worth of real estate, so Americans could get their ball and chain--errr, excuse me, mortgage, and attempt to isolate themselves from society.

Are you talking about Ike's Interstate system? If so, this may be the 1st reference (other than from some certifiably loony tree-hugger) that I've heard to the U.S.' interstate system being one of the biggest wastes of wherewithal in the history of the world.
 

Bluto

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I lived there for like a year as a kid and it was one of the worst experiences of my childhood. I remember back in the 90's people were trying to talk about it like it was going to be the "next Seattle". Oh well. Maybe the Juggalo nation can have the next Gathering as a benefit for the City?
 

NDTampa

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Detroit is a corrupt city which hasn't had a solid reputation of electing smart and honest politicians.

See Kwame Kilpatrick and Monica Conyers. Both are/were in Jail and yet if I had to bet the people of Detroit would most likely re-elect them both if given the chance.
 

magogian

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I'll call it now. The Obama administration will use the bankruptcy to plant a big fat wet one on the unions.

The government will force a priority scheme that gives the unions priority over the secured creditors and other bond holders, as it did in the GM bankruptcy.

Nothing better than using "rule of law" and by that I mean improperly altering longstanding bankruptcy claim priorities to pay off your political supporters.
 

irishff1014

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If you get a chance watch to watch Burn. It is a movie about Detroit Fire dept and some of the problems they have due to the money issues.
 

dublinirish

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Detroit is a corrupt city which hasn't had a solid reputation of electing smart and honest politicians.

See Kwame Kilpatrick and Monica Conyers. Both are/were in Jail and yet if I had to bet the people of Detroit would most likely re-elect them both if given the chance.

Kwame was like something out of a TV show man, unreal
 

BGIF

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U.S. judge halts challenges to Detroit's bankruptcy bid | Reuters

By Bernie Woodall and Joseph Lichterman

DETROIT | Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:59pm EDT



A U.S. bankruptcy court judge on Wednesday suspended lawsuits challenging Detroit's historic bankruptcy filing while he reviews the city's petition for protection from creditors.

Following the first hearing in the case earlier on Wednesday, Judge Steven Rhodes issued a stay on all litigation related to the bankruptcy.

Rhodes also extended that stay to lawsuits filed against Michigan's governor, state treasurer and Kevyn Orr, Detroit's state-appointed emergency manager who filed the biggest Chapter 9 municipal bankruptcy petition in U.S. history for the city on July 18. Rhodes also declared that Orr is a valid officer for the city.

The rulings clear the way for the judge to decide on procedural matters on August 2 and in later proceedings determine whether Detroit is eligible to remain in federal bankruptcy court.

...
 

BGIF

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I can't/won't speak for the accuracy of these figures; but it sure does boggle the mind, if they are true.

25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your Head – Secrets of the Fed



Point #5 must be false as I read here that it was Eisenhower's Evil Interstate Highway System, the bane of civilization, that sucked all the manufacturing jobs to the suburbs.


Now I learn 'twasn't Ike. The Germans, Japanese, and South Koreans took the auto manufacturing (cars, trucks, and parts) to THEIR suburbs:


From December 2000 to December 2010, 22 states lost a third or more of their manufacturing jobs. Massachusetts, New York and Ohio lost 38 percent of their manufacturing jobs, New Jersey 39 percent, North Carolina 42 percent, Rhode Island 44 percent, Michigan 48 percent

...

Trade in autos, trucks and parts, an industry in which America was dominant in the lifetime of many of us, tells the story.

Last year, the United States ran a trade deficit in autos, trucks and parts of $110 billion. The deficits with Germany, Japan, South Korea and Mexico account for that entire total.

Consider South Korea. Though she has an economy one-fifteenth the size of ours, she exported to us 12 times the dollar volume of trucks, cars and parts that we exported to her.

...
Read more at Manufacturing’s dismal decade
 
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