George Zimmerman Trial

[irishpat183]

I knew what your response was going to be a month ago...I literally almost said for not to read it LOL...

I think the author did a good/decent job of noting that what he provided may not necessarily tell the whole story, but I think it's meant to get people thinking, and by people I mean rational people...If y'all couldn't tell I'm black...My best friend is a white, LAPD officer. His brother in-law is a sheriff for LA county whose family has no problem displaying their racial bias, even if in front of me...To them, I don't fit what they see as "black". I mean, to a certain degree it is kinda true that we all have been racially biased (or still are). Doesn't necessarily mean we are bad people. Whether it be based on an experience first-hand or to someone you knowt the way you were raised or jus, we've all felt that way. Now, I've never been a race baiter...but I feel that it isn't necessarily a bad thing to question or bring up the topic of racial bias. I'm in no way saying the jurors in this case certainly are...but why can't the question be asked, "Why were jurors so able to accept GZ's story as the "truth" with TM being the aggressor?" Why is GZ's actions seen as being (paraphrasing) "over the top, but good-hearted in nature?" I feel as though race can/should be discussed in a proper way. But the moment race is brought up, those on one side seem to take the opposite side as "race baiters"...There needs to be this dialouge without both sides getting up in arms and I feel that we are all capable of doing that here...Questioning isn't the same as accusing.

There was a more interesting article on just how random "justifiable homicide" rulings are to show that the law is interpreted different ways in different cases...Also, that the number of self-defense claims since the law has been on the books has drastically increased. As for the media, this is the same media that on your local nightly news is more likely to highlight the crime done by minorities with greater frequency than those that aren't...Couldn't one then, unaware to themselves, be susceptible to developing racial bias based on watching the news??? Rant over

The thing that makes me shake my head on this, isn't really the data (as it has it's uses)..but this SYG crap. I get revisiting the SYG law, and if someone disagrees with it...fine. But it really has nothing to do with GZ and TM.

That is my problem with it. It's a very interesting article, but the author really needs to do her homework, or seperate from TM and GZ entirely on this issue.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Dude, you're like 9 million posts too late. We've had plenty of arguments...LOL

Read what lead up to that, otherwise, move along..show's over. Rhode made it very clear his stance and I'm pointing out that because of the absence of FACTS, and the media's f**k-job on GZ with shotty reporting...there is just no other way that someone could have that view and not be tainted by the likes of MSNBC and the rest of the MSM.

I wasn't attacking him because I have anything against him personally, just his view on this particular issue.

I've been in this thread and watched your **** the whole time. Read all that lead up to it. There still is no excuse to repeatedly attack posters because of their beliefs on this topic because they differ from yours. Its pathetic. Same as the 'move along' comment, its all along the same lines.

I never claimed you attacked him based on anything personally, quite a few of your posts attack the post you quote within it because it isn't along you line of belief.

 

[irishpat183]

That sounds suspiciously like something Adolf Hitler might say.

You're just begging the question here...

 

[irishog77]

I knew what your response was going to be a month ago...I literally almost said for not to read it LOL...

I think the author did a good/decent job of noting that what he provided may not necessarily tell the whole story, but I think it's meant to get people thinking, and by people I mean rational people...If y'all couldn't tell I'm black...My best friend is a white, LAPD officer. His brother in-law is a sheriff for LA county whose family has no problem displaying their racial bias, even if in front of me...To them, I don't fit what they see as "black". I mean, to a certain degree it is kinda true that we all have been racially biased (or still are). Doesn't necessarily mean we are bad people. Whether it be based on an experience first-hand or to someone you knowt the way you were raised or jus, we've all felt that way. Now, I've never been a race baiter...but I feel that it isn't necessarily a bad thing to question or bring up the topic of racial bias. I'm in no way saying the jurors in this case certainly are...but why can't the question be asked, "Why were jurors so able to accept GZ's story as the "truth" with TM being the aggressor?" Why is GZ's actions seen as being (paraphrasing) "over the top, but good-hearted in nature?" I feel as though race can/should be discussed in a proper way. But the moment race is brought up, those on one side seem to take the opposite side as "race baiters"...There needs to be this dialouge without both sides getting up in arms and I feel that we are all capable of doing that here...Questioning isn't the same as accusing.

There was a more interesting article on just how random "justifiable homicide" rulings are to show that the law is interpreted different ways in different cases...Also, that the number of self-defense claims since the law has been on the books has drastically increased. As for the media, this is the same media that on your local nightly news is more likely to highlight the crime done by minorities with greater frequency than those that aren't...Couldn't one then, unaware to themselves, be susceptible to developing racial bias based on watching the news??? Rant over

I quit reading after that.


I'm black too.

 

[Emcee77]

Don't get defensive, guys.

 

[GoIrish41]

I knew what your response was going to be a month ago...I literally almost said for not to read it LOL...

I think the author did a good/decent job of noting that what he provided may not necessarily tell the whole story, but I think it's meant to get people thinking, and by people I mean rational people...If y'all couldn't tell I'm black...My best friend is a white, LAPD officer. His brother in-law is a sheriff for LA county whose family has no problem displaying their racial bias, even if in front of me...To them, I don't fit what they see as "black". I mean, to a certain degree it is kinda true that we all have been racially biased (or still are). Doesn't necessarily mean we are bad people. Whether it be based on an experience first-hand or to someone you knowt the way you were raised or jus, we've all felt that way. Now, I've never been a race baiter...but I feel that it isn't necessarily a bad thing to question or bring up the topic of racial bias. I'm in no way saying the jurors in this case certainly are...but why can't the question be asked, "Why were jurors so able to accept GZ's story as the "truth" with TM being the aggressor?" Why is GZ's actions seen as being (paraphrasing) "over the top, but good-hearted in nature?" I feel as though race can/should be discussed in a proper way. But the moment race is brought up, those on one side seem to take the opposite side as "race baiters"...There needs to be this dialouge without both sides getting up in arms and I feel that we are all capable of doing that here...Questioning isn't the same as accusing.

There was a more interesting article on just how random "justifiable homicide" rulings are to show that the law is interpreted different ways in different cases...Also, that the number of self-defense claims since the law has been on the books has drastically increased. As for the media, this is the same media that on your local nightly news is more likely to highlight the crime done by minorities with greater frequency than those that aren't...Couldn't one then, unaware to themselves, be susceptible to developing racial bias based on watching the news??? Rant over

this is a great post. have to spread it around first, but I owe you some reps.

 

[irishpat183]

I've been in this thread and watched your **** the whole time. Read all that lead up to it. There still is no excuse to repeatedly attack posters because of their beliefs on this topic because they differ from yours. Its pathetic. Same as the 'move along' comment, its all along the same lines.

I never claimed you attacked him based on anything personally, quite a few of your posts attack the post you quote within it because it isn't along you line of belief.

but I'm not wearing a hoodie...

Get over it. I'm sure RhodeIrish is ok in defending himself.

And the point of an argument/discussion is to "attack" the post you disagree with. It's my style. Sue me.

Otherwise, join in on the fun!

 

[GoIrish41]

Don't get defensive, guys.

You better not be referring to me ...

 

[Irish Insanity]

but I'm not wearing a hoodie...

Get over it. I'm sure RhodeIrish is ok in defending himself.

And the point of an argument/discussion is to "attack" the post you disagree with. It's my style. Sue me.

Otherwise, join in on the fun!

Actually in your avatar you are.

 

[irishpat183]

Actually in your avatar you are.

Welll played good sir!

 

[GoIrish41]

Actually in your avatar you are.

Good point II. I'm keeping my eye on you Pat!!!

 

[SaltyND24]

I think what we all can agree on (especially Pat) that when it deals with race...the media plays it up on both sides of the issue depending on your outlet of choice...I will not doubt that much...

 

[SaltyND24]

I quit reading after that.


I'm black too.

I pointed that out for the narrative...also, to point out that I can talk about race without coming off as everyone is an overtly bigoted racist...but of course, you probably already knew, and there was no reason for me to say anything...my bad

 

[irishpat183]

I think what we all can agree on (especially Pat) that when it deals with race...the media plays it up on both sides of the issue depending on your outlet of choice...I will not doubt that much...

Exactly. I think many of our problems and outrage comes from irresponsble reporting. It's no longer about journalism...but about ratings.

 

[BGIF]

President Surprise P.C. On Trayvon Martin During White House Briefing

President Surprise P.C. On Trayvon Martin During White House Briefing

Complimented Trayvon's parents.
Complimented Judge for well run trial and jury charging, prosecutors, defense and jury as well. Jury rendered verdict according to the charges. That's how Our System works. Time to move on.

He condemned violent protest.

Where do we go from here:
1. DOJ working with LEOs.

2. Exam state and local laws ito see if they encourage confrontation rather than defuse. Discussed Stand Your Ground pointing out that he is aware that SYG was not part of the Zimmerman Trial. Would Trayon have been able to SYG if he had a gun and shot Zimmerman because he was followed in a car and felt threatened?

3. How to get young AA men/boys more encouragement that their country cares about them.

Things ARE getting better. Each generation does better. Changing attitudes. Our children, mentioned his by name, do better than we did, and we did more than our parents or grandparents. We still have a way to go on our journey.

Commented on AA boys have experienced distrust, as did he as a boy. Cited examples being followed in department stores, of car doors being locked as boys walk by, of women clutching their purses when AA boy steps on an elevator, etc.




I was critical of his first comments as polarizing. His second comments were better. These were better. "We". He also noted we still aren't a perfect union but we can work on becoming a more perfect union. He initiated a basis for dialogue rather than confrontation.

 

[ACamp1900]

Better late than never I guess...

 

[irishpat183]

Complimented Trayvon's parents.
Complimented Judge for well run trial and jury charging, prosecutors, defense and jury as well. Jury rendered verdict according to the charges. Our System worked. Time to move on.


Where do we go from here:
1. DOJ working with LEOs.

2. Exam state and local laws ito see if they encourage confrontation rather than defuse. Discussed Stand Your Ground pointing out that he is aware that SYG was not part of the Zimmerman Trial. Would Trayon have been able to SYG if he had a gun? 35 years ago that could have been me.

3. How to get young AA men/boys more encouragement that their country cares about them.

Things ARE getting better. Each generation does better. Changing attitudes. Our children, mentioned his by name, do better than we did, and we did more than our parents or grandparents. We still have a way to go on our journey.

Commented on AA boys have experienced distrust, as did he as a boy. Cited examples being followed in department stores, of car doors being locked as boys walk by, of women clutching their purses when AA boy steps on an eve actor, etc.



I was critical of his first comments as be polarizing. His second comments were better. These were better. "We". He also noted we still aren't a perfect union burpt we ca work on becoming a more perfect union. He initiated a basis for dialogue rather than confrontation.

Have you seen what's going on in Houston and LA right now? Sorry, but some of that has been earned. Not all, but if I'm in LA right now? You're damn right I'm a little skiddish around black youth....

But yes, this shoudl've been his approach from the start. Much better this time.

 

[ACamp1900]

Most of my close friends (one Korean and one white guy, other than that ALL of my friends) are black and I have black family members... I also live just outside of and frequent L.A.

Some of my mentioned friends and family dress and look the stereotype... none of them actually are I can assure you... well, at least not anymore.. lol

let's not play into that Pat, you are better than that... if anything a lot of crime and such tends to be a 'poor' thing and not a 'race' thing and some aren't willing to see beyond that and just point to race.

 

[tussin]

Some of Obama's general comments on race were spot on and they were certainly well-intentioned; but, in the context of everything that has happened, they were completely inappropriate.

This case itself had nothing to do with race. If GZ shot me in the exact same circumstances he would have still be acquitted under the exact same rationale. The evidence was weak, there was a physical altercation, and he used his weapon.

Obama didn't give support to the verdict and only divided America more by justifying why his racial group is so outraged. Just adds more fuel to the fire.

 

[adsnorri]

Have you seen what's going on in Houston and LA right now? Sorry, but some of that has been earned. Not all, but if I'm in LA right now? You're damn right I'm a little skiddish around black youth....

But yes, this shoudl've been his approach from the start. Much better this time.

Not in the mood for debating or arguing but have you seen what happens all over the country? African American youth are definitely harassed more than other races. I am white and can not tell you how many parties/get togethers I have been to and had to hear the N-word being used until I said something. If you are black, you are a target, perceived to be up to no good. ..at least from where i am from. South Bend, where there is a diverse population, so I can only imagine this where there are far fewer black people. Perception is reality for many people unfortunately but if you get a chance to walk in other's shoes...it is eye opening, trust me on this one. BTW, Hispanics probably have more problems in LA than Blacks do now. They are racially profiled by both races.

 

[adsnorri]

Some of Obama's general comments on race were spot on and they were certainly well-intentioned; but, in the context of everything that has happened, they were completely inappropriate.

This case itself had nothing to do with race. If GZ shot me in the exact same circumstances he would have still be acquitted under the exact same rationale. The evidence was weak, there was a physical altercation, and he used his weapon.

Obama didn't give support to the verdict and only divided America more by justifying why his racial group is so outraged. Just adds more fuel to the fire.

When he says from his mouth that these types always get away...what do you think he is talking about? These types as in kid's that where hoodies and walk to the store? "these types" is a profile derived from only his vision at that point and the vision did not warrant an approach. Motive from history did and the fact that this kid was black was the only reason he fit the Suspicious profile. So yea, it had something to do with it.

On a separate note, I haven't kept up with this thread because of the ridiculousness in the beginning but does the witness that says on the phone that the guy on top of the fight is wearing a white shirt not mean anything?

 

[ACamp1900]

When he says from his mouth that these types always get away...what do you think he is talking about? These types as in kid's that where hoodies and walk to the store? "these types" is a profile derived from only his vision at that point and the vision did not warrant an approach. Motive from history did and the fact that this kid was black was the only reason he fit the Suspicious profile. So yea, it had something to do with it.

On a separate note, I haven't kept up with this thread because of the ridiculousness in the beginning but does the witness that says on the phone that the guy on top of the fight is wearing a white shirt not mean anything?

Actually it is my understanding that GZ called FAR TOO MUCH, on just about every race in his area... correct? DOn't they have like dozens of other calls from him leading up to this? I think it may be unfair to instantly jump to race as 'these types'... he may have simply been referring to all the others he had called on that nothing happened to. Not saying his thoughts were correct, but that could have easily been were he was going with that.

 

[adsnorri]

Actually it is my understanding that GZ called FAR TOO MUCH, on just about every race in his area... correct? DOn't they have like dozens of other calls from him leading up to this? I think it may be unfair to instantly jump to race as 'these types'... he may have simply been referring to all the others he had called on that nothing happened to. Not saying his thoughts were correct, but that could have easily been were he was going with that.

He did call way too much and I understand there is room for grey area. Him calling that much however shouldn't have any bearing on his shooting of TM. It may actually hurt his case imo. Overzealous, borderline profiling. I would assume there were other people in the neighborhood that walked, why didn't he call the cops on them? How was he to decide who to call on? This sentiment didn't help in court this time(Not sure if it was even brought up) but may help the next court case to build a case on his decision making and whether it was a civil rights issue of profiling, etc.

It's safe to say, the plaintiffs attorneys were horrid in comparison. Maybe all those donations GZ received really did pay off. lol I would love to find out who donated to his defense fund. I feel bad for any black families in that area now. Although GZ wont be there, they still will be a target, especially the youth.

 

[BGIF]

What if Trayvon had a gun?

What if Trayvon had a gun?

Today the President asked that rhetorically IF Trayvon had been of AGE and carrying a gun. Talking heads have simply asked IF Trayvon had had a gun.

The hypothetical doesn't work if you think about as there are too many significant changes.

In the President's example, "of age", there would be two adults in that situation. With two adults there would have been no discussion of adult versus children, nor pictures of 10 and 12 year olds. In the event there were contradictory eye and ear witnesses as was the case here and had Martin sustained similar injuries as did Zimmerman, I would expect the jury to come to the same verdict. Actually, I would expect no trial nor arrest and there would have been no demonstrations to force an arrest, nor a DOJ investigation.



But Trayvon wasn't 21, which is a substantial difference.

Zimmerman had a legally owned gun and a permit to carry it. As a 17 year old, Martin could not legally purchase a gun in FL nor legally obtain a carry permit. His text messages indicated he was trying to obtain a gun and would be admissible.

As a minor, Martin would have been guilty of illegal fireman charges. The prosecutor would have stressed the illegal weapon used in the shooting and the defense would not be able to justify firing an illegal weapon out in the street, SYG regardless. In that case a jury of reasonable people might well return a guilty verdict to the Second Degree Murder. A 17 year old using a Dad's gun in the house to resist an intruder would be understood by a jury but not outside the house.

 

[irishpat183]

Most of my close friends (one Korean and one white guy, other than that ALL of my friends) are black and I have black family members... I also live just outside of and frequent L.A.

Some of my mentioned friends and family dress and look the stereotype... none of them actually are I can assure you... well, at least not anymore.. lol

let's not play into that Pat, you are better than that... if anything a lot of crime and such tends to be a 'poor' thing and not a 'race' thing and some aren't willing to see beyond that and just point to race.

Who is more likely to be in poverty? I was just about to say that I'm more scared of POOR. Like I said...Bad part of town.

Middle class black youth are not doing this...it's those growing up in the ghettos or from poor homes


And let's not get it twisted...if you're young and you dress like a moron (black, white, whatever) you're a target. Let's not pretend that young black kids are the only ones targeted.

And I guarantee, adsnorri, if you took a walk through a ghetto, you'd be targeted.

 

[irishpat183]

He did call way too much and I understand there is room for grey area. Him calling that much however shouldn't have any bearing on his shooting of TM. It may actually hurt his case imo. Overzealous, borderline profiling. I would assume there were other people in the neighborhood that walked, why didn't he call the cops on them? How was he to decide who to call on? This sentiment didn't help in court this time(Not sure if it was even brought up) but may help the next court case to build a case on his decision making and whether it was a civil rights issue of profiling, etc.

It's safe to say, the plaintiffs attorneys were horrid in comparison. Maybe all those donations GZ received really did pay off. lol I would love to find out who donated to his defense fund. I feel bad for any black families in that area now. Although GZ wont be there, they still will be a target, especially the youth.

Come on.....You're just ignoring the fact that those that had committed recent robberies in the area, where wearing dark hoodies.

But lets make it about race...

 

[BGIF]

He did call way too much ...

Did he?

Over an 8 year period in NeighborhoodWatch he made about 50 calls to non-emergency AND 911 police numbers. Do the math.

In the first 2 years most of the calls were to 911. Then he learned to differentiate between 911 and non-emergency calls. The vast majority of his calls were for open garage doors, ringing alarms and the like.

There were 8 calls over the years where race, Black, Hispanic, and White were recorded. One was Hispanics and white, one was White, and about 6 were Blacks only, AS NOTED BY THE OPERATOR.

Too many? The local police advised his Neighborhood Watch group to call in suspicious activity.

 

[irishpat183]

Did he?

Over an 8 year period in NeighborhoodWatch he made about 50 calls to non-emergency AND 911 police numbers. Do the math.

In the first 2 years most of the calls were to 911. Then he learned to differentiate between 911 and non-emergency calls. The vast majority of his calls were for open garage doors, ringing alarms and the like.

There were 8 calls over the years where race, Black, Hispanic, and White were recorded. One was Hispanics and white, one was White, and about 6 were Blacks only, AS NOTED BY THE OPERATOR.

Too many? The local police advised his Neighborhood Watch group to call in suspicious activity.

But...but.....


Great post. There is just no reason this should be about race.

 

[jmurphy75]

But...but.....


Great post. There is just no reason this should be about race.

Pat you're absolutely correct, GZ had a proven past with "black" people. 2 years prior a kid who happened to be the son of a police officer in Sanford Police officer beat a black homeless man to death. It was GZ that went to city council meetings protesting that the man deserved better. GZ actually made and distributed flyers on the man's behalf demanding justice....but you won't hear about it in the media. Anyone can look it up, it's fully documented online dating back way before the TM fiasco.

 

[ACamp1900]

...If y'all couldn't tell I'm black..

I quit reading after that.


I'm black too.

Isn't there some kind of background check for this site??? Someone think of the white women