George Zimmerman Trial

[GoIrish41]

The thing that has been itching at my crawl is why this case? Why is this so special? Why did the media select this one? A man killed another man in the night...why not one of the 30 or so gang related murders (killings) the same month in Chicago? They were all "a man killing another man". It's tragic and horrible that TM lost his life that night...I hate that it happened. But it sickens me more that I hear about a killing a couple of times a week during my morning drive. Just 20 second blurbs on the radio. Where's the outrage? Where's the politicians saying "if I had a boy he could have looked like TM"? Where's CNN/FOX? We have a massive inner-city murder problem and we've selected THIS case to go nuts over...like there is some huge social problem.? Vigilantism gone wild! THAT is stupid. What purpose does focusing on this case serve and who benefits? When the riots start neighborhoods are going to be torn up and people will get hurt. When the looting (err...shopping) starts businesses will be destroyed. There is NO pandemic of white on black crime in this country so this serves no purpose. So why stir it up as though there is? If I were a data miner I say at this point that there have been ***X men/boys killed by gun-shot SINCE the TM shooting which speaks to a much bigger problem than an over-zealous 1/2 white man shooting a black man during a night watch in his neighborhood. I'm sure i'd feel much differently if it were my boy right? But I wouldn't feel any different if my boy got killed in a drive by shooting in the inner city and it just got 20 seconds on the news during the morning commute. I can't watch any of the coverage without wondering...Why this case?

I think the short answer is that there was no arrests made for 44 days even though there was no question that Zimmerman shot Martin

 

[Emcee77]

He wasn't a racial profiler...that has already been covered. If he knew that TM was black, he would've stated as much at the begining of the 911 call..."I think he's black". So the fact that he wasn't 100% sure, means there is no way he was specifically out looking for black guys. Sorry, you're just wrong on that one.

As far as sticking his snout where it doesn' belong? Debatable. Given what happened in that neighborhood, you could say that he was doing his job as neighborhood watch.


And again...who's to say TM wasn't planning on breaking in to a house? Are we supposed to just take your word for it because he's a "kid minding his own biz" according to you and some others on here?


See what I'm saying?

The entire prosecution case was based on a man making an incorrect assumption (one that ended up with a dead kid). But, you go ahead and make the same mistake he made.

by the way, "racially profiled" didn't come up a single time during the trial.

I was responding to Emcee's post....He mentioned that GZ was a "racial profiler".

I feel like my point got lost here. I didn't want to rehash whether Zimmerman was or was not reasonable in believing Martin was up to no good; we've covered that ad nauseam in this thread. Whether he was or was not racially profiling didn't come up at trial because it has little or nothing to do with whether he is guilty of a crime -- and that was my whole point.

Personally, I believe that Zimmerman was racially profiling. I know many of you think that a kid walking around in the rain is suspicious, but I disagree. Kids hang out outside and talk on the phone all the time. But it just doesn't matter where you come down on that ... it doesn't have much or anything to do with whether he is guilty of murder, except to the extent that it may shed light on who started the fight (and I don't think it sheds much). I wish more people could see that Zimmerman could have wronged Martin in some sense without having committed any crime. Some people seem to think that if they admit that Zimmerman should be found not guilty, it's tantamount to admitting that he did nothing wrong. I don't see it that way.

 

[Booslum31]

Personally, I believe that Zimmerman was racially profiling. I know many of you think that a kid walking around in the rain is suspicious, but I disagree. Kids hang out outside and talk on the phone all the time.

I haven't heard that he failed to follow some white or Hispanic kids that same night or nights past.

 

[Emcee77]

I feel like my point got lost here. I didn't want to rehash whether Zimmerman was or was not reasonable in believing Martin was up to no good; we've covered that ad nauseam in this thread. Whether he was or was not racially profiling didn't come up at trial because it has little or nothing to do with whether he is guilty of a crime -- and that was my whole point.

But it just doesn't matter where you come down on [whether Zimmerman was racially profiling] ... it doesn't have much or anything to do with whether he is guilty of murder, except to the extent that it may shed light on who started the fight (and I don't think it sheds much). I wish more people could see that Zimmerman could have wronged Martin in some sense without having committed any crime. Some people seem to think that if they admit that Zimmerman should be found not guilty, it's tantamount to admitting that he did nothing wrong. I don't see it that way.

Oh my God you guys are infuriating. There, fixed. Racial profiling was never the freaking point.

Like Houstonian said, talking past each other is really the hallmark of any message board convo.

 

[Golden_Domer]

I think the short answer is that there was no arrests made for 44 days even though there was no question that Zimmerman shot Martin

Yea, a lot of misinformed people thought there should've been an arrest due to their misunderstanding of the law. It's unfortunate that people don't have a basic understanding of our legal system.

In any event, the outcries were almost immediate; the New Black Panther Party was holding protests within a week or so of the incident and reaching out to state and national civil-rights groups (and put up a $10,000 bounty on GZ shortly thereafter )

 

[Bluto]

Apologies if this has been asked but didn't Treyvon Martin have the right to "stand his ground" as well?

 

[goldandblue]

Apologies if this has been asked but didn't Treyvon Martin have the right to "stand his ground" as well?

Apology accepted, move on.

 

[Golden_Domer]

Apologies if this has been asked but didn't Treyvon Martin have the right to "stand his ground" as well?

"Stand your ground" could apply to anyone under the right circumstances. But under the facts of this case, TM had no legal right to "stand his ground."


Text of Florida's "stand your ground" law Fla. Stat. § 776.013(3):
"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

 

[GoIrish41]

It is silly, and that's what makes the prosecution such a farce. The Prosecution's entire case is a bunch of "who's to say".

So what if GZ was punched in the face -- who's to say he didn't start the fight?

So what if GZ thought Martin was on drugs -- who's to say he's not just a racist psychopath?

So what if Martin was shot while on top of GZ -- who's to say that he wasn't trying get off GZ at the time?

So what if GZ has claimed self-defense the entire time -- who's to say he isn't just saying that because of what he learned in school?

So what if Martin is dead -- who's to say that he wouldn't have a completely different story?

So what if Martin's dad said it wasn't Martin screaming on the 911 call -- who's to say he wasn't just saying "no" in a trance of disbelief?

What's comical is not only is this there whole case, but at closing they strung together all these hypotheticals with constant "common sense" reminders -- as if closing your eyes and saying it 1,000 times will magically make it so.

I think the central argument was a bit deeper than you are suggesting. It was less about the what ifs and more about poking holes in the story that Zimmerman told -- inconsistencies in his own story and asking why he would tell the lies that he told.

 

[GoIrish41]

"Stand your ground" could apply to anyone under the right circumstances. But under the facts of this case, TM had no legal right to "stand his ground."


Text of Florida's "stand your ground" law Fla. Stat. § 776.013(3):
"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

That is assuming that Zimmerman didn't attack Martin, which is certainly not out of the rhelm of the impossible.

 

[Wild Bill]

The entire prosecution case was based on a man making an incorrect assumption (one that ended up with a dead kid). But, you go ahead and make the same mistake he made.

by the way, "racially profiled" didn't come up a single time during the trial.

Yes it did. Remember, TM profiled Martin as a crazy-a$$ cracka.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Ummm no. GZ didn't get fat until after all this started. He was pretty lean when this all happened (around 180 I think).

And still, Martin is much taller than GZ...GZ is only 5'6-5'7.

So if those cut outs are off...it's not by much.

I love you man. The one that represents TM, leaning in a hulking manner is taller and BROADER than the other one.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

But that goes against what liberal thinking people do. They preach tolerance on all things clear up until your opinion, thoughts, and beliefs doesn't match up with theirs. At that point, their "tolerance" for you and your opinion, thoughts, and beliefs get thrown out the window.

Mine doesn't Tommy. But I don't call myself a liberal. I am a possiblist. That is why I am not anyone's stereotype that many call a liberal. And I am intelligent, and that coupled with the fact that I am a possiblist, precludes you from calling me the other stereotype, a conservative.

Back to two questions I would really like to see someone answer. Is this case all about getting a dumb@*** idiot off of murder charges to preclude the anti-gun crowd shutting down a significant numeric potential customer, dumb@sses that want to carry guns? And if anyone saw my video of what the media, the Nazi's, the anti-Nazi's, Mayor Carty Finkbeiner, and the Bloods and Crips; do they think anything is less at work in Sanford?

In Toledo, everyone stirred up the people. It couldn't have been handled worse. But as soon as it exploded, everyone (nonresidential instigators) took off. What is different here?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Apologies if this has been asked but didn't Treyvon Martin have the right to "stand his ground" as well?

Yes.

 

[GoIrish41]

I hope if Zimmerman is found guilty that all the white people in Florida don't riot.

 

[Rhode Irish]

But that goes against what liberal thinking people do. They preach tolerance on all things clear up until your opinion, thoughts, and beliefs doesn't match up with theirs. At that point, their "tolerance" for you and your opinion, thoughts, and beliefs get thrown out the window.

This is obvious nonsense. The best analogy I can think of is if you are against bullying, so you see some big a-hole beating on a helpless person, and you say to yourself: "self, I cannot interfere with this because then I would be bullying the bully and bullying is wrong." All of these things require value judgments, and no good definition of tolerant would require someone to excuse bigoted behavior in the name of tolerance. You and I may have different values, but that doesn't mean my values don't exist. This is the kind of anti-intellectual nonsense that generally damages the discourse.

 

[Golden_Domer]

Yes.

*Yes, it was asked, no he did not have that right.

 

[Golden_Domer]

That is assuming that Zimmerman didn't attack Martin, which is certainly not out of the rhelm of the impossible.

You sound like one of Zimmerman's prosecutors. Yes it is impossible because "stand your ground" is a defense, so TM would have to have been charged with something.

 

[Redbar]

I hope if Zimmerman is found guilty that all the white people in Florida don't riot.

I'm praying they don't , but looking at history, I am sure there will be retribution. I am worried for my minority friends in Florida.

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm praying they don't , but looking at history, I am sure there will be retribution. I am worried for my minority friends in Florida.

Keep your head down. I hear there are a lot of creepy a** crackers in those parts.

 

[Bishop13]

Nothing screams "justice for trayvon" or "looking into the heart of a child" like riots and attacking innocent people.

So how long have you been afraid of Black People?

 

[GoIrish41]

So how long have you been afraid of Black People?

best ... first ... post ... ever

 

[ShawneeIrish]

I hope if Zimmerman is found guilty that all the white people in Florida don't riot.

What a stupid comment

 

[Redbar]

So how long have you been afraid of Black People?

It does sorta jump right out at ya huh?

 

[GoIrish41]

What a stupid comment

Could not agree more ... insert any ethnicity and it sounds just as stupid.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Could not agree more ... insert any ethnicity and it sounds just as stupid.

I very much agree. I think I misinterpreted your comment and I apologize. I thought the sarcasm font was meant to say that white people would not riot, contrasting that to likelihood of black people rioting if there is a not guilty verdict. Hence why I said it was stupid. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

 

[Booslum31]

best ... first ... post ... ever

What makes it so good...just wondering?

 

[GoIrish41]

What makes it so good...just wondering?

Because on post number one he is pointing out that Pat is being a bit of a jackass. Kinda makes me giggle because it is so obvious to someone who dosn't have my experience with Pat. Pat and I have a pretty decent stretch of friendly disagreements, so it was great to have someone new to the fold recognized what I have come to learn over time is funny ... to me at least.

 

[Redbar]

I'm glad you keyboard assclowns want to make a joke out of the situation down here. I'm sure it's great fun from your house 1000 miles away, how about taking a rational look at the way things happen in the real world....there will be and already have been innocent people that will be drawn into this fake *** "race trial". Try crawling out from your mommies dress and live thru what could possibly happen, then joke about it. Oh I'm sorry you'd have to pull your heads out of your asses first. I hope nothing happens, but there is a real possibility that it does.

Is someone offended now??? What could have been said that someone might find offensive?

 

[Booslum31]

Because on post number one he is pointing out that Pat is being a bit of a jackass. Kinda makes me giggle because it is so obvious to someone who dosn't have my experience with Pat. Pat and I have a pretty decent stretch of friendly disagreements, so it was great to have someone new to the fold recognized what I have come to learn over time is funny ... to me at least.

Ok...makes sense.