Why does ND always choke in the Tournament?

[Irish Fam]

Same chance Coach K leaves Duke.

This seems like a stretch to say the very least.

I don't mean to imply that he will come when we call, but to compare him sticking at Butler with Coach K staying at Duke is a little far fetched. And by a little I mean quite a bit.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

This seems like a stretch to say the very least.

I don't mean to imply that he will come when we call, but to compare him sticking at Butler with Coach K staying at Duke is a little far fetched. And by a little I mean quite a bit.

Stevens will be at Butler as long as Coach K is at Duke at least. That's the most likely place for him to take a job, but with Butler's success coupled with a move to a big conference, he really has no reason to go to anything that isn't THE job in college basketball. His salary will go up next year with the extra $4.6 million coming from TV money, and this is where he's from. He's from the Indianapolis area and so is his family.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Stevens will leave Butler for only four jobs: Indiana, Duke, North Carolina and Kansas. Even Kentucky is too dirty for him, and UCLA is too 70s for him. He isn't coming to Notre Dame.

By the way, why does Notre Dame always choke in the tournament? I'm not totally sure; I don't really follow ND sports outside of football. But this year I would blame it on the terrible uniforms/shoes. I wouldn't be able to play wearing that nonsense. The whole time I would be in my own head thinking about how utterly ridiculous and obnoxious I looked to everyone watching.

 

[dshans]

... I would blame it on the terrible uniforms/shoes. I wouldn't be able to play wearing that nonsense. The whole time I would be in my own head thinking about how utterly ridiculous and obnoxious I looked to everyone watching.

I agree.

At 5'7" (a number of years back – I'm now 5'6") I could actually touch the rim. I was never a Spud Webb b-baller. That was clear at The Rock and the ACC in my day. "In my own head" was (and is) always a dark and dangerous place ...

 

[anarin]

Because all american high school kids would come to ND if Brey wasn't coaching.

I guess you forgot its the talent you have and not the coaching that actually matters in basketball.

 

[gkIrish]

Because all american high school kids would come to ND if Brey wasn't coaching.

I guess you forgot its the talent you have and not the coaching that actually matters in basketball.

Completely disagree. We had one of the most talented teams in the country two years ago and got blown out in the second round as a 2 seed. All these mid majors without talent seem to do just fine. With few exceptIons, Brey just can't out coach someone on a neutral court that he doesn't play every year. It's a fact. Some people are content making the tournament every year. I'm not.

 

[clashmore_mike]

You don't think, if Brey was fired after last year, that John Groce would have considered ND? He's a way better coach than Brey.

lol, no

 

[gkIrish]

It's not just Brey to be fair. Jaime Dixon and JTIII are horrible tournament coaches too.

 

[anarin]

Completely disagree. We had one of the most talented teams in the country two years ago and got blown out in the second round as a 2 seed. All these mid majors without talent seem to do just fine. With few exceptIons, Brey just can't out coach someone on a neutral court that he doesn't play every year. It's a fact. Some people are content making the tournament every year. I'm not.

I assume you are talking about the team with Hansbrough that lost 7 games. The same team that had Cooley as a sophomore, Atkins as a freshman, Nash as a offensive liability, Martin as his typical hit or miss self and Scott as the offensive decent offensive player that couldnt grasp rebounding or defense. Oh I forgot Abromaitis that was Scott but streakier.

This is your team that was the most talented teams in the country? The team that won the tournament that year was led by a talented guard that could take any game over by himself. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

 

[anarin]

It's not just Brey to be fair. Jaime Dixon and JTIII are horrible tournament coaches too.

I guess you're one of those guys that think Jordan wouldn't have won NBA championships without Phil Jackson either....

The players miss or make the shots, get the rebounds, hit the free throws and play the defense. The coaches can only run the plays and substitute.

 

[gkIrish]

I assume you are talking about the team with Hansbrough that lost 7 games. The same team that had Cooley as a sophomore, Atkins as a freshman, Nash as a offensive liability, Martin as his typical hit or miss self and Scott as the offensive decent offensive player that couldnt grasp rebounding or defense. Oh I forgot Abromaitis that was Scott but streakier.

This is your team that was the most talented teams in the country? The team that won the tournament that year was led by a talented guard that could take any game over by himself. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about.

We beat Uconn twice that year. Ben Hansbrough is in the NBA. Scott was on the Nets D League team. Abro and Nash play overseas professionally. They were all outstanding college players. Martin was a great glue guy that year. Many experts had us winning it all. At some point "playing teams we match up poorly against" can't be an excuse.

 

[gkIrish]

I guess you're one of those guys that think Jordan wouldn't have won NBA championships without Phil Jackson either....

The players miss or make the shots, get the rebounds, hit the free throws and play the defense. The coaches can only run the plays and substitute.

I guarantee you he would not have won as many as he did. Phil Jackson won with the Lakers too.

Brey is horrible at using timeouts, sticks with a gameplan that isn't working for too long, and underutilizes his bench. He's an average play caller on offense and slightly above average on defense.

Bottom line is that players change every 3 or 4 years. Brey has been here for a lot more than that. He's elevated the program to a new level but won't ever get us to the next level. So it's time for a change.

 

[anarin]

We beat Uconn twice that year.

And guess who took over during crunch time? Not the coach.

Ben Hansbrough is in the NBA.

He averages 6 minutes a game.

Scott was on the Nets D League team.

Really? Thats what you have for him?

Abro and Nash play overseas professionally.

Alot of players play overseas, I played ball with a few myself.

Martin was a great glue guy that year.

You really made me LOL on that one. Sorry...

Many experts had us winning it all.

Those same experts probably didnt have butler against uconn in what alot call the worst national championship game in history.

At some point "playing teams we match up poorly against" can't be an excuse.

It can be an excuse yes. But to blame a coach is ridiculous. The players MAKE basketball. Look at the teams in the National Championship and compare to the players that play in the NBA.

 

[anarin]

I guarantee you he would not have won as many as he did. Phil Jackson won with the Lakers too.

Brey is horrible at using timeouts, sticks with a gameplan that isn't working for too long, and underutilizes his bench. He's an average play caller on offense and slightly above average on defense.

Bottom line is that players change every 3 or 4 years. Brey has been here for a lot more than that. He's elevated the program to a new level but won't ever get us to the next level. So it's time for a change.

He had Shaq and Kobe in their prime. Are you being serious right now?

 

[gkIrish]

And guess who took over during crunch time? Not the coach.



He averages 6 minutes a game.

...so he isn't talented? He was a 1st team all-American if I remember correctly.

Really? Thats what you have for him?

I don't think you realize how difficult it is to be an NBA player. Only 60 or so get drafted every year and 25 of those are from Europe or underclassman with potential

Alot of players play overseas, I played ball with a few myself.

not all that many college teams can say they had 4 starters play professionally

you really made me LOL on that one. Sorry...

Okay, so you don't like Scott Martin. Good insight.

If you don't think coaches matter I really can't have a productive discussion with you. It's an unsupportable theory. If you're right then they should just fire Brey and hire someone who makes a lot less money! Doesn't matter either way according to you

 

[irishff1014]

Its everyone's fault they lost tonight. Bad coaching is part of it. Players making bad mistakes, no heart to be out there on the court. And i understand we can't get top talent he but you aren't going to go deep with the average players we have.

 

[tko]

The real reason ND lost is because of those embarrassing uniforms. The school destroyed any karma by succumbing to corporate pressure.

 

[NDOM]

Seriously people........WHY ARE ALL OF YOU SURPRISED?

When ND gets a tourney bid in the future the committee should just give whoever they play an automatic first round bye!!!

One and done just like every year.

Win 20-23 games next year and it will be the same thing. Get used to it.

 

[FrankMA]

I dont agree with this at all. Notre Dame played in a defense-driven league in which Notre Dame passing made them a contender annually. They just ran into a team that was a horrible match.up for them. It happens.

Yes, but why do they run into a team who is a horrible matchup for them every year in the first round or so of the tournament?

 

[phork]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Is there a safer annual NCAA tournament pick than whoever's facing Mike Brey?</p>— Stewart Mandel (@slmandel) <a href="https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/315310093736488960">March 23, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Says it all I guess. Haha.

 

[kmoose]

You don't think, if Brey was fired after last year, that John Groce would have considered ND? He's a way better coach than Brey.

And Gus, my t-ball coach. He's better than you, too.

 

[Patulski]

Every year is a bad tourney match up.

Last night was typical: The team was playing horrific basketball and the refereeing was terrible. Brey should have gotten off the bench and gone on a tirade to both his team and the referees. He should have inserted his will into the game. Instead, he sat on the sideline like a kid watching a train wreck.

Then after not doing anything to fire up his team, with 12 minutes left he took out Cooley and replaced him with Austin Burgett. What was he doing, using the bench as motivation? Or raising the white flag?

We schedule 15 buy games each year against the likes of Kennesaw Mountain State and then crow about 20 win seasons? Please.

This program is headed nowhere, and Brey has 9 years left on his contract. Overall, a terribly managed situation. Get used to it.

 

[FLDomer]

Same old same old....at least I now have two correct picks in my bracket for the West. The "poor match up" is such a BS excuse....****ing man up and play, I have always liked Brey and am greatful for what he has done at ND bringing the program back but its clear he has plained out. Can Notre Dame pull a big name coach? Doubt it but lets take a shot at someone, change can be painful but it could be great too, we know what we got with Brey now.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Same old same old....at least I now have two correct picks in my bracket for the West. The "poor match up" is such a BS excuse....****ing man up and play, I have always liked Brey and am greatful for what he has done at ND bringing the program back but its clear he has plained out. Can Notre Dame pull a big name coach? Doubt it but lets take a shot at someone, change can be painful but it could be great too, we know what we got with Brey now.

Exactly. No excuses. You beat the Iowa States of the world, or you STFU and sit at a kiddie table.

 

[koonja]

I know nothing about ND basketball, but I've followed this year more than others. How do they typically recruit? That #22 looks like he has a decent shot and is very athletic. Other than that, there's not an athlete on the team. Not sure if it's Brey's fault or not, it has to be tough to recruit against the Hoosiers, and it's only going to get tougher because they're rolling.

 

[gkIrish]

I know nothing about ND basketball, but I've followed this year more than others. How do they typically recruit? That #22 looks like he has a decent shot and is very athletic. Other than that, there's not an athlete on the team. Not sure if it's Brey's fault or not, it has to be tough to recruit against the Hoosiers, and it's only going to get tougher because they're rolling.

Our classes are getting better ever year. The incoming class is really good.

 

[Rack Em]

His teams compete during the regular season, during the BE tournament, and he's getting better recruits. But something about his style/preparation for the Big Dance that is absolutely pathetic. He's great during the season, but really needs to reevaluate how he preps for the tourney.

In all honesty, he's probably the best coach ND could have. Very few coaches would come here knowing they'll NEVER GET A 1 AND DONE.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

His teams compete during the regular season, during the BE tournament, and he's getting better recruits. But something about his style/preparation for the Big Dance that is absolutely pathetic. He's great during the season, but really needs to reevaluate how he preps for the tourney.

In all honesty, he's probably the best coach ND could have. Very few coaches would come here knowing they'll NEVER GET A 1 AND DONE.

How many schools really get 1 and dones regularly? The great programs do and maybe some smaller big conference schools get one every decade, but for the most part the one and dones are restricted to 10 programs. Plenty of teams are successful without relying on one year players. Brey can't use recruiting as an excuse when he has Beachem and Jackson coming in a year after getting Biedscheid and Auguste.

 

[Irishnuke]

I guess "terrible matchup" = "team that shows up to play." ND is a decent regular season team that just absolutely lays down and takes it every year in the tournament. At some point you actually have to beat the teams that are favored over you. I don't understand why Brey is still the coach or why people still defend him.

 

[FrankMA]

I guess "terrible matchup" = "team that shows up to play." ND is a decent regular season team that just absolutely lays down and takes it every year in the tournament. At some point you actually have to beat the teams that are favored over you. I don't understand why Brey is still the coach or why people still defend him.

I think most teams tend to step up and play at a higher level in the tournament. For some reason ND never steps up to that higher level. They always come out and play the tournament games like they are playing Holy Cross in an exhibition game or something. Since it happens every year it has to be on the coach and not the players.