'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)

[Emcee77]

I think Reuland had a brother at Stanford and Stanford was one of his top locations anyway. If Weis believed that and that is true..... well no wonder he no longer coaches at ND.

I should emphasize that what I heard was just a rumor. For all I know, maybe Reuland begged to be able to go to school with his brother and Weis gave his blessing.

 

[irishff1014]

I just wish he would say where he is going and be done with this crap.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think it's just SOP that you don't let a guy transfer to a team on your schedule. Regardless of how good Kiel gets, he's been in the QB meetings for a year, he knows a lot about our program and it's not a good idea to let a guy like that play for a rival. Transfers between opponents do happen sometimes, for instance Amir Carlisle, but I think we are all still wondering exactly why Kiffin agreed to that.

I recall that Weis let a couple of our guys transfer to Stanford, too; Konrad Reuland, the FB/TE, and a kicker. I heard at the time that Reuland double-crossed Weis ... Weis said he'd grant the release if Reuland promised not to transfer to a team on our schedule, Reuland said he wouldn't, and then he did anyway. Not sure if that's true though. And the kicker may have been a walk on, don't know about him. Anyway, it does happen, but I don't think it's good practice. There are plenty of places Gunner can play without having to play for a team we play against.

This is the only reason I can get on board w/ blocking a transfer to a team on the schedule. Other than that, I'm not concerned.

 

[IrishLax]

I wasn't surprised to hear Tenn pop up but was surprised not to hear more Vandy buzz. At first blush I really thought that would be his destination.

0% chance ND grants release for him to go to Purdue or MSU. That's standard operating procedure as Emcee said.

Word on the street for the Carlisle thing was that there was a lot more going on in the background than your standard "I'm on the bench so I want to transfer" or "I'm homesick so I want to transfer"... for starters, Amir Carlisle was basically a co-starter at RB as a true frosh, so the transfer seemed odd to begin with. Then there's the fact that he got the 'hardship' waiver... which is kinda miffing in its own right, although it had no impact with him being hurt this whole season... I just don't know if I've ever heard a good explanation for it... your dad (who originally lived hundreds of miles away from the USC campus) taking a new job further away is typically not an acceptable reason for the same rationale "homesick" isn't an acceptable reason for a kid like Lynch.

So we don't know why exactly he opted to transfer OR why he got a hardship OR why Kiffin let him come to ND... and I've heard all kinds of rumors (that seem BS to me, but who knows) about Amir having some kind of leverage (knowledge of violations? knowledge of bogus academics? all kinds of crazy stuff) that allowed him to get the release to ND.

Long story short? Amir Carlisle's situation is an anomaly not the norm and 99/100 you don't let some transfer to a future opponent.

 

[irishpat183]

Ok so you're assuming Kiel will be good and our defense will not be as good? Where's the logic in that? I could just as easily say Kiel won't be good and our defense will be top 5. What do we know? Kiel hasn't played at all. We do know our defense is legit and the level of play should not go down based on recruiting, player development, and coaching.

No, no...I'm just saying that you never know. You're the one assuming that our D will be as good down the line when Kiel takes the field.


I agree with you, who knows?

Which is why I woudln't let him transfer to a rival.

 

[koonja]

This is the only reason I can get on board w/ blocking a transfer to a team on the schedule. Other than that, I'm not concerned.

You should be. This guy was BK's #1 want last year, and for a reason. He personally worked his butt off to recruit Keil. BK knows better than us how good Keil will be. Of course Keil isn't proven yet, but he has everything it takes to be a star. You really wanna hand Purdue/MSU that dice to roll with nothing in return? I'm glad BK knows better than that.

 

[TheSunIsRising]

I think it's just SOP that you don't let a guy transfer to a team on your schedule. Regardless of how good Kiel gets, he's been in the QB meetings for a year, he knows a lot about our program and it's not a good idea to let a guy like that play for a rival. Transfers between opponents do happen sometimes, for instance Amir Carlisle, but I think we are all still wondering exactly why Kiffin agreed to that.

I recall that Weis let a couple of our guys transfer to Stanford, too; Konrad Reuland, the FB/TE, and a kicker. I heard at the time that Reuland double-crossed Weis ... Weis said he'd grant the release if Reuland promised not to transfer to a team on our schedule, Reuland said he wouldn't, and then he did anyway. Not sure if that's true though. And the kicker may have been a walk on, don't know about him. Anyway, it does happen, but I don't think it's good practice. There are plenty of places Gunner can play without having to play for a team we play against.

Konrad Reuland went down a level initially (some 'horse-themed' college: I can't remember the exact name off hand - and it isn't important enough for me to look-up), so that allowed him to go to Stanford without restrictions.

 

[Emcee77]

Konrad Reuland went down a level initially (some 'horse-themed' college: I can't remember the exact name off hand - and it isn't important enough for me to look-up), so that allowed him to go to Stanford without restrictions.

Ah, that could explain it. Thanks.

 

[Cackalacky]

You should be. This guy was BK's #1 want last year, and for a reason. He personally worked his butt off to recruit Keil. BK knows better than us how good Keil will be. Of course Keil isn't proven yet, but he has everything it takes to be a star. You really wanna hand Purdue/MSU that dice to roll with nothing in return? I'm glad BK knows better than that.

Just an honest question. Why did we not see Kiel last year if he was so high on BKs "want" list? Could he not beat out Hendrix? Nor Rees? We already knew early on MZ was coming in to and he showed himself to be a leader in 14' class. Why is BK sticking with EG and not grooming Kiel?

 

[koonja]

Just an honest question. Why did we not see Kiel last year if he was so high on BKs "want" list? Could he not beat out Hendrix? Nor Rees? We already knew early on MZ was coming in to and he showed himself to be a leader in 14' class. Why is BK sticking with EG and not grooming Kiel?

He was a FRESHMAN. Since when is playing QBs in their first year normal for BCS level football when you have experienced QBs ahead of them? Rees had 12 wins at that point, and he was 2nd string. Why waste Keil's RS?

No, no. See above.

Where did you learn that BK is not grooming Keil? He knew what he had in EG, but he still busted *** to recruit Keil harder than anyone.

 

[koonja]

If you remove emotions and treat it as a business decision, which it is, there's no way you let a kid with this much talent and this much eligibility walk over to a team who we schedule for nothing in return. Is he proven at the college level? No. Could he be a bust no matter where he goes? Yes. But by all accounts, this kid has it all. Size, arm strength, intelligence, and he's fast. Not someone I want our defense to have to worry about. Make it as tough as you can for him to go to a scheduled team/rivalry, because he could be a serious thorn in ND's *** for 3/4 years. Keil could be a 1st round draft pick one day.

 

[gkIrish]

It's surprising to me that schools are allowed to block transfers from going to certain schools. IMO if you sit out a year you should be allowed to go wherever you want

 

[koonja]

It's surprising to me that schools are allowed to block transfers from going to certain schools. IMO if you sit out a year you should be allowed to go wherever you want

I don't understand the rule. I thought by 'blocking' ND would enforce the one-year-out on Keil, whereas not blocking would allow him to play for Purdue next year? You can't completely prevent a player from going to play for a school, right?

 

[SoIll]

people are ignorant.... smh

 

[Cackalacky]

He was a FRESHMAN. Since when is playing QBs in their first year normal for BCS level football when you have experienced QBs ahead of them? Rees had 12 wins at that point, and he was 2nd string. Why waste Keil's RS?

No, no. See above.

Where did you learn that BK is not grooming Keil? He knew what he had in EG, but he still busted *** to recruit Keil harder than anyone.

I don't buy this argument. HS QBs these days can pick up a simplified playbook and get going. Rees is a TO machine, Hendirx has wheels and that is about it. Why make a 5-star ride the pine behind EG. 2 years ago I saw BK blasting Rees every game. This year I saw him coaching EG. IF EG is a stop gap measure, BK gave every indication from this year is that BK likes what EG has and MZ is a clone. IDK, maybe I am just biased because of how his recruitment went down. Not a fan of Keil.

 

[PANDFAN]

I don't understand the rule. I thought by 'blocking' ND would enforce the one-year-out on Keil, whereas not blocking would allow him to play for Purdue next year? You can't completely prevent a player from going to play for a school, right?

Typically, athletes aren't allowed to transfer within the same conference or to a school that is a regular nonconference opponent because it could put the school he's leaving at a competitive disadvantage.

"I don't even like those kinds of restrictions," Jackson said, "but at least there is some rational basis to them."

Once a release is granted, a transferring student in football, basketball, men's ice hockey and baseball must sit out one year before becoming eligible at a new school. There is no one-year waiting period in other sports.

If a player is barred from transferring to a particular school, he can still go there without a scholarship. That's not practical, or possible, for many players. An athlete whose release is denied can appeal to a committee at his school that is outside the athletic department and to the NCAA itself.

 

[Emcee77]

It's surprising to me that schools are allowed to block transfers from going to certain schools. IMO if you sit out a year you should be allowed to go wherever you want

I don't understand the rule. I thought by 'blocking' ND would enforce the one-year-out on Keil, whereas not blocking would allow him to play for Purdue next year? You can't completely prevent a player from going to play for a school, right?

No, the one-year penalty and the release from the scholarship are separate issues that are often conflated.

1)
EVERY player who transfers from one FBS school to another (unless he is a graduated senior with a 5th year of eligibility enrolling in a graduate program his prior school does not offer) must sit out a year. Sitting out a year is an NCAA-mandated penalty for breaking the contract you make when you sign your LOI. Neither your old school nor your new school has anything to say about it. Unless the NCAA agrees to waive the one-year penalty due to some sort of hardship, as it did for Amir Carlisle, you must sit out, end of story.

2)
Players sign a letter of intent to play football for a particular school in exchange for a scholarship. They are BOUND to that school by signing the LOI, and may not accept a scholarship to play for any other school unless the school with which they originally signed releases them from the scholarship agreement. Usually, if a player is unhappy, the school will grant the release; it would take a special kind of prick-coach to prevent a kid from accepting a scholarship to play football for any other school just because he is unhappy playing for you, but he has the power to do so. If we wanted to, we could tell Gunner we won't agree to let him transfer, and if we do that, he can't accept a scholarship to any other school unless he appeals to Faculty Board of Athletics or the NCAA and wins. But usually the school grants the release ON THE CONDITION that the kid not attend schools in the same conference, traditional rivals, etc.

 

[Emcee77]

Typically, athletes aren't allowed to transfer within the same conference or to a school that is a regular nonconference opponent because it could put the school he's leaving at a competitive disadvantage.

"I don't even like those kinds of restrictions," Jackson said, "but at least there is some rational basis to them."

Once a release is granted, a transferring student in football, basketball, men's ice hockey and baseball must sit out one year before becoming eligible at a new school. There is no one-year waiting period in other sports.

If a player is barred from transferring to a particular school, he can still go there without a scholarship. That's not practical, or possible, for many players. An athlete whose release is denied can appeal to a committee at his school that is outside the athletic department and to the NCAA itself.

nice find, Panda.

Here's the full article:

NCAA transfer restrictions won't be easily lifted - ESPN

 

[Anchorman]

He could go to a JUCO for 2013 and then transfer anywhere and play immediately w/ 3 years of eligibility, correct?

 

[PANDFAN]

He could go to a JUCO for 2013 and then transfer anywhere and play immediately w/ 3 years of eligibility, correct?

yes....but it would have to be to a school BK allowed

 

[Bogtrotter07]

"I feel that I am the only one in the stands that understands, clearly, that I have no real idea what's going on out there.”

Dave Casper

The Bogs did however look up the transfer rules before he made a post.

 

[irishpat183]

If you remove emotions and treat it as a business decision, which it is, there's no way you let a kid with this much talent and this much eligibility walk over to a team who we schedule for nothing in return. Is he proven at the college level? No. Could he be a bust no matter where he goes? Yes. But by all accounts, this kid has it all. Size, arm strength, intelligence, and he's fast. Not someone I want our defense to have to worry about. Make it as tough as you can for him to go to a scheduled team/rivalry, because he could be a serious thorn in ND's *** for 3/4 years. Keil could be a 1st round draft pick one day.

Thank you

 

[IrishSteelhead]

yes....but it would have to be to a school BK allowed

Haven't read this thread lately, but is there any real interest from any of ND's opponents? No offense to GK, but I was under the impression most programs are shying away.

 

[Emcee77]

Haven't read this thread lately, but is there any real interest from any of ND's opponents? No offense to GK, but I was under the impression most programs are shying away.

Not that i know of. There's a lot of debate going on about a question that is strictly hypothetical, since 1) we aren't going to release Gunner to a team we play, and 2) no teams that we play regularly are expressing interest in him, as far as we know. The question's not worth the ink spilled on it at this point.

 

[stlnd01]

Has anything officially happened yet? I mean, are we sure he's leaving?
I know there's no particular need to rush a formal announcement, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around why he'd quit before spring ball - unless he was immediately enrolling somewhere else to somehow make spring practice there. It just kind of makes him look like a loser.

 

[Irishman77]

I predicted somewhere a hundred pages or so this thread would be the only to ever get a million views. I just didn't think it would happen before he ever took a snap.

 

[Emcee77]

Jason's still hearing only MAC-level schools mentioned as possible destinations for Gunner.

 

[Cackalacky]

Wasn't last years freshmen QB class pretty stacked? If that is the case, he may have a hard time finding a place at top flight football schools. I am sure he could go to Kansas though.

 

[Emcee77]

The more I think about this the more I think that Kelly must be pissed. He personally invested all this time in recruiting Gunner. I recall that when asked why Gunner traveled with the team even though there was virtually no chance that he would play, Kelly said something about how he wants Gunner to get used to the preparation necessary for road games. Does this sound like a guy who thinks Golson, not Gunner, will inevitably be the QB for the next 3 years?

I just don't know why you give up a decent chance to be a starter for a top program like ND to play QB for a MAC school. Right now lots of things could still happen and you have a real chance of becoming the starter at ND in the next year or two ... yeah, there's not a completely clear path in front of you, maybe it takes an injury to Golson or something, but you've got a real shot. Why wouldn't you wait till that chance becomes a virtual impossibility before you drop down in competition in order to get playing time? Just don't get it, unless there's more to the story.

 

[Cackalacky]

The more I think about this the more I think that Kelly must be pissed. He personally invested all this time in recruiting Gunner. I recall that when asked why Gunner traveled with the team even though there was virtually no chance that he would play, Kelly said something about how he wants Gunner to get used to the preparation necessary for road games. Does this sound like a guy who thinks Golson, not Gunner, will inevitably be the QB for the next 3 years?

I just don't know why you give up a decent chance to be a starter for a top program like ND to play QB for a MAC school. Right now lots of things could still happen and you have a real chance of becoming the starter at ND in the next year or two ... yeah, there's not a completely clear path in front of you, maybe it takes an injury to Golson or something, but you've got a real shot. Why wouldn't you wait till that chance becomes a virtual impossibility before you drop down in competition in order to get playing time? Just don't get it, unless there's more to the story.

Imagine how Les Miles feels, or Indiana's coach.....

Has anyone considered that Coach Kelly is also having to "grow" into his position as head coach at ND? Recruiting nationally. tough academics, 4-year scholarships... Maybe he has made mistakes along the way? Maybe he has learned from those mistakes.

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