Hugo Chavez Dies

[irishpat183]

How about rendition then?

(By the way, my family and I are not over English genocide of Ireland, and that was (partly) in the 1800's, too.)

But I suppose that I'd ask what is the point of "not getting over it"?

I mean, of course we all remember what happened, but when arguing about current events, why use that (and the trail of tears, slavery) as a comparasion to people that had nothing to do with those events?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Democratic Congressman Jose Serrano, Oliver Stone, and Sean Penn have all voiced their sincere sorrow in the passing of Chavez.

 

[irishpat183]

Get over it? Your attitude is the same attitude that Americans in 1800s had. You don't get it. American arrogance will be the downfall of this country. It's not about getting over it , it's about learning from the past. Some people need to be reminded. We are not the pinnacle of civilization and we could learn a lot from other people but our arrogance blinds us. Your last few posts confirm this attitude is alive and well. BTW. My great grandmothers family was able to escape the Cherokee purge of the eastern band in the 1840s. We still have an oral tradition that was luckyily written down about them escaping into the mountains and hiding for years. On the other hand my great great great grandfather received 40 acres for every month he served in the Alabama militia fighting the Creeks during the Creek war as bounty land.

I refuse to be dragged down by things that happened nearly 200 years ago. My bad.

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't share stories of sacrifice or anythign like that as tools to help people learn not to make the same mistakes......but when I'm in an argument about Chavez and current events, is a reminder of the Trail of Tears really necessary?

 

[Cackalacky]

Pics or it didn't happen

If you would like them I could send them to you.

 

[irishpat183]

Democratic Congressman Jose Serrano, Oliver Stone, and Sean Penn have all voiced their sincere sorrow in the passing of Chavez.

Oliver Stone will be cashing in..

 

[Cackalacky]

I refuse to be dragged down by things that happened nearly 200 years ago. My bad.

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't share stories of sacrifice or anythign like that as tools to help people learn not to make the same mistakes......but when I'm in an argument about Chavez and current events, is a reminder of the Trail of Tears really necessary?

Yes because what we do today across the world is exactly what we have done in our own backyard for the past 200years. Very applicable and pertinent.

 

[irishpat183]

Yes because what we do today across the world is exactly what we have done in our own backyard for the past 200years. Very applicable and pertinent.

When was the last trail of tears or mass genocide on American soil?

And for the record, I'm agasint what we're doing in other countries. But that doesn't make me think that we still doing live in the best country in the world. And I refuse to feel guility about saying that.

If were up to me? We'd have every troop home and be concentrating on US rather than trying to play world police.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

I have plenty of self-awareness...I'm awesome.


American arrogance? By belieive that the country I live in is the greatest in the world and that i have it pretty damn good? I can live with that.

Cackalacky (still an awesome name)....Key to that? IT WAS THE 1800's!!! I wish some people would get over that kinda sh*t already. Yes, we've done some terrible things...but those that committed those acts are LONG gone and nobody that you or I am related too can possibly have anything to do with it.

If you or others feel that bad....start cutting checks to some native americans and put your money where your guilt is.

Yes, when you said we are better than everyone else that is certainly arrogant. I do not understand the obsession with people always saying we are the greatest country in the world. There are many great things about America (Bill of Rights, national parks and wilderness, Civil Rights movement, diversity, etc.) there are also deplorable things about America (War on Drugs, War on Terror, incarceration rate, history of foreign policy in Latin America, etc.) Instead of people mindlessly stating America is the greatest nation in the world how about celebrating what we do well and trying to correct where we come up short. Also why say we are better than everyone else, why not try and learn from what other nations do better than us and be an example to other nations of that at which we are successful.

 

[phork]

But we're American. Are we supposed to bash ourselves?

Sorry, I don't subscribe to "self-hating".

We're not perfect. Just better than everyone else.

Legends in your own minds.

 

[Mr. Larson]

Isn't IrishPat the same guy that wants his home state of Texas to secede? He's coming off like Kenny Powers in this thread:

Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

 

[connor_in]

First of all, let's all agree that pretty much every country has a certain degree of evil done in their name and blood in the ledger. Remember, more people have died in the name and cause of God and religion than for any other reason, and this despite many religions professing peace.

Next, for those that say that our country and media constantly denounced HC and did its best to tear him down. To this I can only say, that is partially true. There are some outlets that did do this, but there were many mainstream outlets that also praised him no matter what he did.

However, here are a couple items I have seen in the news to pass along to see another side to some of the other articles posted above:

Venezuela’s Hugo Chávez and his legacy of plunder - Editorials - MiamiHerald.com

In an energy-rich country that once knew no blackouts, electrical shortages are frequent, the result of Mr. Chávez’s plundering of the country’s public oil company. In a country that once enjoyed a thriving free market, prices are controlled and food items often scarce.
In recent weeks, while Mr. Chávez was hospitalized, Venezuela was once again forced to devalue its currency, this time by one-third. This was the inevitable outcome of a series of disastrous economic decisions that included nationalizing the telephone company and other utilities, which scared off foreign investors and spurred capital flight.
For Venezuelans, the worst aspect of the Chávez years was the soaring crime rate. Venezuela has become one of the most violent countries in the world, with nearly 20,000 murders recorded in 2011 and a homicide rate that some experts say is four times greater than in the last year before Mr. Chávez took power.

Maria Conchita Alonso, on the Steve Malzburg Show:

Appearing on NewsMaxTV’s Steve Malzberg Show Tuesday, Maria Conchita Alonso said, “I’m very happy”.
“I am so happy,” the Cuban-born actress who moved to Venezuela when she was five said. “I know that they say, ‘Oh my God, that’s insulting. You can’t be happy [unintelligible] the death of someone. You don’t respect him.’ I’m like, ‘What? How many people did he kill? How did he destroy the country? Who did he respect? Who did he not abuse?’”

“Of course I’m happy,” she continued. “God can forgive him, but I am not God. I’m very far away from being a Saint. So, I won’t forgive him. I’m very happy.”

Minutes later, Malzberg asked his guest to comment about what Chavez admirer Sean Penn must be thinking.

“Sean Penn, oh my God,” Alonso replied. “Oh, I’m so sorry. You must be feeling so sad. Well, but such is life…I’m happy.”

There are those that will praise him and those that wil villify him. The people I know with connections to Venezuela disliked him A LOT (to say the least). Since they were the ones who had family and friends living under his rule, I side with them. If you want to praise him, go ahead. We are a free society and that is your right...and mine is not to join you in that.

I wish long life to each and every one of my IE friends.

 

[Walter White]

I have plenty of self-awareness...I'm awesome.


American arrogance? By belieive that the country I live in is the greatest in the world and that i have it pretty damn good? I can live with that.

Be careful about having too much nationalism.

There are plenty of impeding on human rights and despicable acts that have happened post-1800's by our government. Some so fresh we still have black eyes from them: the war on Iraq, killing innocents by drone, fear mongering by both parties, and general misinformation to the public.

Don't hold so dear to a "country". They will always let you down, especially one as big as the U.S. Criticism is important and needed. Yes, we are blessed to live in one of the freest places on earth with a pretty decent chance to improve our own condition.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

When was the last trail of tears or mass genocide on American soil?

And for the record, I'm agasint what we're doing in other countries. But that doesn't make me think that we still doing live in the best country in the world. And I refuse to feel guility about saying that.

If were up to me? We'd have every troop home and be concentrating on US rather than trying to play world police.

Listed in the prologue to a book titled "Flyboys", about the Japanese eating downed American fliers on an island near Iwo Jima, the author went into a detailed description of how "anti-Injun" shows took place in conjunction with Christian revival services and bushel baskets of Native American genitals, male and female were dumped on stages in cities like Denver, Colorado over a thirty year period from the late 1860's; from before the Little Bighorn, to after Wounded Knee. Oh, you still hear about the hundred and some troopers who were slaughtered and their corpses desecrated, but you don't hear about the tens of thousands of women raped, and millions murdered in the years leading up to that.

I knew a man, and I just found proof of his existence as an original settler last week, who knew of all these stories, knew how the Native Americans were butchered and even knew stories of "Liver-eatin'" Johnson, the historical figure behind Jeremiah Johnson. He would eat the liver of Crow's fallen in battle to keep them from going to heaven. Psychological warfare, don't you know. It happened. It was gruesome. It was your ancestors. And anyone with that attitude condones and perpetuates it.

 

[connor_in]

Yes, when you said we are better than everyone else that is certainly arrogant. I do not understand the obsession with people always saying we are the greatest country in the world. There are many great things about America (Bill of Rights, national parks and wilderness, Civil Rights movement, diversity, etc.) there are also deplorable things about America (War on Drugs, War on Terror, incarceration rate, history of foreign policy in Latin America, etc.) Instead of people mindlessly stating America is the greatest nation in the world how about celebrating what we do well and trying to correct where we come up short. Also why say we are better than everyone else, why not try and learn from what other nations do better than us and be an example to other nations of that at which we are successful.

Quick question (and not meant to start a fight, just curious)

Cannot someone believe the US is the greatest country in the world currently on balance due to their feeling that the good things you listed out weigh the bad you you listed...and at the same time while that person holds that belief, cannot they also believe that there are a multitude of things that we can improve upon? Just because someone believes their country is best, that does not mean they are doing it mindlessly and it does not mean they believe said country is perfect. This can be true of any country and not just the US.

 

[pumpdog20]

Ozzie Guillen wouldn't even go back home while Chavez was there. That's all you need to know.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Quick question (and not meant to start a fight, just curious)

Cannot someone believe the US is the greatest country in the world currently on balance due to their feeling that the good things you listed out weigh the bad you you listed...and at the same time while that person holds that belief, cannot they also believe that there are a multitude of things that we can improve upon? Just because someone believes their country is best, that does not mean they are doing it mindlessly and it does not mean they believe said country is perfect. This can be true of any country and not just the US.

I would agree that this is true and possible. However, most people do not seem to make such a thorough analysis. I just generally do not understand why anyone from U.S. or France or Japan or Venezuela or anywhere else feels the need to proclaim themselves "the best". I just don't get it, uphold accomplishments, try to fix what is wrong, but why the need to feel superior to others?

 

[connor_in]

I would agree that this is true and possible. However, most people do not seem to make such a thorough analysis. I just generally do not understand why anyone from U.S. or France or Japan or Venezuela or anywhere else feels the need to proclaim themselves "the best". I just don't get it, uphold accomplishments, try to fix what is wrong, but why the need to feel superior to others?

One word from my old social studies classes...
ethnocentrism

 

[ShawneeIrish]

One word from my old social studies classes...
ethnocentrism

And ethnocentrism and nationalism have produced such great things for the world

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

"We don't always get it all right, but there's no place else I'd rather build my life." --- Rodney Atkins

I will never apologize for being a patriotic American, admitting to our past wrongs and current problems, but if someone feels the urge to burn our flag they should wrap themselvesin it first.

 

[connor_in]

And ethnocentrism and nationalism have produced such great things for the world

IMHO, it has led to both good and bad throughout history...

There was a line in the Tom Clancy Jack Ryan thriller "Clear and Present Danger" (the movie...don't recall it in the book but I could be wrong). Jack Ryan is acting DDI at CIA and his counterpart, the DDO, yells at him that he is such a boy scout..."The world is not back and white...it's gray, Jack...GRAY!" He is the bad guy in the movie, but I believe his observation is correct.

 

[phork]

Ozzie Guillen wouldn't even go back home while Chavez was there. That's all you need to know.

Haha. Discussion over.

 

[irishpat183]

"We don't always get it all right, but there's no place else I'd rather build my life." --- Rodney Atkins

I will never apologize for being a patriotic American, admitting to our past wrongs and current problems, but if someone feels the urge to burn our flag they should wrap themselvesin it first.

Thata boy!


As crazy and arrogant as some on here label me for thinking this...I think they're crazy and debbie-downers for constantly bringing down people like myself with their constant 200 year old crap.


Listen, is there anywhere else in the world that we could all be having this kinda convo? Or anywhere in the world where you can make this kinda money? Or have this standard of living (40k a year is considered "poor")?

 

[phork]

Thata boy!


As crazy and arrogant as some on here label me for thinking this...I think they're crazy and debbie-downers for constantly bringing down people like myself with their constant 200 year old crap.


Listen, is there anywhere else in the world that we could all be having this kinda convo? Or anywhere in the world where you can make this kinda money? Or have this standard of living (40k a year is considered "poor")?

Canada?

 

[FLDomer]

Canada?

Aye?

 

[connor_in]

Canada?

Nahhhh...too nice to have THIS conversation

 

[irishpat183]

Canada?

Sorry, I wasn't done.

...that has warm weather, doesn't play football on funny fields, and who's main export isn't hockey players?

 

[phork]

Nahhhh...too nice to have THIS conversation

I'm an *******, so lets have it.

Sorry, I wasn't done.

...that has warm weather, doesn't play football on funny fields, and who's main export isn't hockey players?

You mean main export is oil, which you so lovingly slurp. Also we like your warm weather as well. We pay you like rented whores to use your facilities, **** all over the place and leave.

 

[connor_in]

I'm an *******, so lets have it.

Ahhh c'mon phork...I know you are jes' playin....everyone loves you...u r soooo NICE

 

[greyhammer90]

Sorry, I wasn't done.

...that has warm weather, doesn't play football on funny fields, and who's main export isn't hockey players?

No but seriously there are tons of places that are just as objectively nice as the USA. I'm ok with patriotism when there are differing opinions of ideologies, because that's human nature, but don't act as though the rest of the world is some barbarian horde.

 

[irishpat183]

No but seriously there are tons of places that are just as objectively nice as the USA. I'm ok with patriotism when there are differing opinions of ideologies, because that's human nature, but don't act as though the rest of the world is some barbarian horde.

I didn't say that. I just said we're the best.

It's my belief. Arrogant or whatever. I can live with that. I've been called worse, by much worse people than my IE friends. LOL


I suppose when you've lived in a place your entire life, and you've watched some of the stuff that other people from other countries have gone through.....I'd say it kinda conditions you to think that way. No?