BK stays at ND

[NDohio]

Even though Azalone said that it WAS the reason? He's the guy who would know best. There are litterally dozens of decommits every year in college football recruiting, but this guy is the biggest flake of all? Why? Because he left ND? What about all the guys on our rouster who were commiitted elsewhere but came here instead? Why are they not flakes? Because they came to ND? That's how this argument presents itself in my mind and the easiest way for me to come to grips with it is to acknowledge that mistakes were made and accept that.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why does it have to be that either AA is a flake or how the entire interviewing for the Eagles scenario played out was a mistake? How about this. AA did what was best for him and we should wish him well AND BK and Swarbrick handled the situation the best that this kind of situation can be handled and BK stayed at ND and we should be happy with that.

Why does there always have to be blame/negativity?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why does it have to be that either AA is a flake or how the entire interviewing for the Eagles scenario played out was a mistake? How about this. AA did what was best for him and we should wish him well AND BK and Swarbrick handled the situation the best that this kind of situation can be handled and BK stayed at ND and we should be happy with that.

Why does there always have to be blame/negativity?

Because many are trying to change the narative of the story to change the conversation to take the focus off of the blatant cowdungus that has been spread. (Takes a while for the stink to go away.)

 

[ThePiombino]

Even though Azalone said that it WAS the reason? He's the guy who would know best. There are litterally dozens of decommits every year in college football recruiting, but this guy is the biggest flake of all? Why? Because he left ND? What about all the guys on our rouster who were commiitted elsewhere but came here instead? Why are they not flakes? Because they came to ND? That's how this argument presents itself in my mind and the easiest way for me to come to grips with it is to acknowledge that mistakes were made and accept that.

He also said he was solid to ND and shutting down his recruitment. How does one do that and wind up enrolling elsewhere? He has said multiple times that he was SOLID, yet he flipped twice and almost flipped earlier. I'm saying that given this body of evidence that I am not quick to believe him on this one.

I don't care that it's ND that he left. I'm not basing this on his jilting ND. I'm basing this on him jilting OSU then not committing else until he was "100% certain", committing to ND, almost flipping to UF during the LSU game visit, then re-affirming his commitment to ND, then bouncing the moment the BK news broke. And it's not even like BK was reported to take the job at the moment. This was well before ESPN got antsy with the story and started reporting anything and everything. Every single other recruit who went public declared their loyalty to the school, regardless of the BK outcome. 5 were even willing to EE regardless of an outcome. You can't tell me that AA is not unique here. Given that, I DON'T TRUST HIM FOR HIS WORD.

I don't doubt for a second that this BK situation was probably not handled the best way possible, but if this kid skips town at the first sign of adverse conditions, then maybe this isn't the best place for him to play. I'm not saying we don't need his talent, but sure as hell don't need his drama.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Happy coach and well paid staff vs. Azalone don't have to be mutually exclusive. I think it is possible that ND could have had both if this situation was handled better (read, less publically). Was he wavering ... sure, probably. Lots of kids do this time of year. Although I acknowledge that there were some contention with Azalone when he first waivered in his commitment and looked at Fla., I think most on IE were pretty stoked that he "decided" to stick it out with ND. Observing our fans go on these roller coaster rides where they change their views on people and behaviors based on whatever they want to think about ND strikes me as comical. Was Kiel a flake when he left left Indiana for LSU and LSU for ND? Was Golson a flake when he left NC for ND? How 'bout Carlysle when he went to USC and transfered after a year? I'll bet that is what the fans for those other schools were saying. My point is that we sound silly when we make excuses for mistakes. We would have more credibility as a fanbase if we were simply able to just admit that this wasn't handled well and leave it at that.

I don't know how to answer all of this, but I can tell you that I don't view Gunner and Alex all that differently. I've said as much several times in Alex's thread, that their situations are virtually identical. And you'll notice that Gunner ending up at ND didn't have anything to do with Les Miles interviewing for the NFL - he was just simply more comfortable at ND and couldn't pull the trigger on LSU. Same thing here, so I think blaming it on Kelly is oversimplifying it. The major difference between Gunner and Alex was that Gunner was very private about his recruitment throughout the whole process, and Alex was less so. To the extent there are different perceptions of them, that may have a lot to do with it.

Regardless, I'm happy to have Gunner at ND, and I wish we had Alex, too. I just don't think he is worth second-guessing Kelly and Jack and the administration over, because I think he was gone either way and even if he wasn't he is a small price to pay for overall stability. You might think he could have been persuaded to stay if the Kelly situation was handled differently, but there's no way to know. What we do know is everything worked out, and all of the other commits are still on board, so I'm not going to criticize the way it was handled because one kid who was flaky throughout the whole process flaked out.

 

[GoIrish41]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why does it have to be that either AA is a flake or how the entire interviewing for the Eagles scenario played out was a mistake? How about this. AA did what was best for him and we should wish him well AND BK and Swarbrick handled the situation the best that this kind of situation can be handled and BK stayed at ND and we should be happy with that.

Why does there always have to be blame/negativity?

I couldn't agree more. I would not have voiced my objection if this kid wasn't being attacked. I didn't call him a weasel or a flake and didn't question his honesty or integrity. I'm taking him at his word. He did indeed say the interview is the reason he went to Fla., so why can't we just accept that?

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't know how to answer all of this, but I can tell you that I don't view Gunner and Alex all that differently. I've said as much several times in Alex's thread, that their situations are virtually identical. And you'll notice that Gunner ending up at ND didn't have anything to do with Les Miles interviewing for the NFL - he was just simply more comfortable at ND and couldn't pull the trigger on LSU. Same thing here, so I think blaming it on Kelly is oversimplifying it. The major difference between Gunner and Alex was that Gunner was very private about his recruitment throughout the whole process, and Alex was less so. To the extent there are different perceptions of them, that may have a lot to do with it.

Regardless, I'm happy to have Gunner at ND, and I wish we had Alex, too. I just don't think he is worth second-guessing Kelly and Jack and the administration over, because I think he was gone either way and even if he wasn't he is a small price to pay for overall stability. You might think he could have been persuaded to stay if the Kelly situation was handled differently, but there's no way to know. What we do know is everything worked out, and all of the other commits are still on board, so I'm not going to criticize the way it was handled because one kid who was flaky throughout the whole process flaked out.

+1 I could have pretty much summed up my previous post with this statement right here lol

 

[dublinirish]

very true its not like Steven Elmer or Malik Zaire decommitted, guys who were 100% rock solid all the way through.
Will be very interested to see how AA goes at UF though he could either be great or a great failure.

 

[ThePiombino]

I couldn't agree more. I would not have voiced my objection if this kid wasn't being attacked. I didn't call him a weasel or a flake and didn't question his honesty or integrity. I'm taking him at his word. He did indeed say the interview is the reason he went to Fla., so why can't we just accept that?

What has he done in this recruiting process to earn such faith from you? My consternation here is based on his actions, not my prejudices.

 

[NDohio]

Because many are trying to change the narative of the story to change the conversation to take the focus off of the blatant cowdungus that has been spread. (Takes a while for the stink to go away.)

Yeah, probably until 8/31/13 ......

 

[Grahambo]

Its just an excuse for the public to save face.

 

[woolybug25]

I couldn't agree more. I would not have voiced my objection if this kid wasn't being attacked. I didn't call him a weasel or a flake and didn't question his honesty or integrity. I'm taking him at his word. He did indeed say the interview is the reason he went to Fla., so why can't we just accept that?

I don't see it as Rhode not accepting that he stated that BK was the reason, but if you are asking why he cant accept it as truth, then I disagree. AA hasn't earned the right to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his recruitment. He hasn't been truthful during the whole process, so I have no idea why anyone thinks that his word should be taken on face value.

The reason people don't trust what he says is because he has lied several times.

As Rhode mentioned, don't take this as an insult to AA. I hope he has a fine career, gets a good education and has a great life. No skin off of our backs as fans. But I will not say that he handled his recruitment well or that his word can be trusted, because his actions have proven that to be incorrect.

 

[NDohio]

I couldn't agree more. I would not have voiced my objection if this kid wasn't being attacked. I didn't call him a weasel or a flake and didn't question his honesty or integrity. I'm taking him at his word. He did indeed say the interview is the reason he went to Fla., so why can't we just accept that?

Fair enough.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not worried about 5 years down the road. That would be 8 years into BK's tenure at ND. I don't expect him to be around for 20 years. If Kelly can keep recruiting top classes I think in about 2 years we should really be on the level to compete every season with any program in the country. If Kelly jumps to the NFL eventually I think the program will be very stable and as long as we don't make really poor coaching hires after that we should be ok.

And that gentlemen is the reason why ND football labored in mediocrity for so long after Holtz. One poor coaching hire after another.

 

[palinurus]

I think there is enough evidence (particularly in AA's public comments of support for ND, being finished with recruiting, goosebumps before the NT game), let alone his Hamlet routine, to differentiate this from Kiel and conclude he's at least a little flaky, even by 18 year old standards. One can also conclude that the Kelly dalliance wasn't handled in the best way, relevant to the recruiting class, but on that score, there is too much I/we don't know re what the asst coaches knew and when and what they told the recruits.

At this point, it's really not "blame" that matters, but assessing actions (kind of like looking at the NT game), so we can improve in the future. You're going to lose recruits, but you want to avoid losing ones you can keep, and keep happy long term.

 

[Irish#1]

There is no sign of high character greater than insisting on telling yourself the truth! Right WaveDommer, OMM, dShans, etc, etc? *

(* there are so many of you in private messages and posts that it surprises and pleases me to no end!)

Then, there is no stronger and quicker way to make the world a better place than insisting on telling the truth to others.



The truth. Please don't change the narative by throwing stones at peoples heads. Besides, Alex is not who you Should be throwing A stone at, Luigi!

Dang Bogs, you're turning into a regular Plato, Socrates or Freud! I like!

 

[NDohio]

And that gentlemen is the reason why ND football labored in mediocrity for so long after Holtz. One poor coaching hore after another.

Whore or hire? LOL

I agree. My hope is that Jack is still around when BK does eventually move on. I do have confidence in Jack's abilities to make good decisions.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think there is enough evidence (particularly in AA's public comments of support for ND, being finished with recruiting, goosebumps before the NT game), let alone his Hamlet routine, to differentiate this from Kiel and conclude he's at least a little flaky, even by 18 year old standards. One can also conclude that the Kelly dalliance wasn't handled in the best way, relevant to the recruiting class, but on that score, there is too much I/we don't know re what the asst coaches knew and when and what they told the recruits.

At this point, it's really not "blame" that matters, but assessing actions (kind of like looking at the NT game), so we can improve in the future. You're going to lose recruits, but you want to avoid losing ones you can keep, and keep happy long term.

I am telling you, the (biggest) difference is the dad's.

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't see it as Rhode not accepting that he stated that BK was the reason, but if you are asking why he cant accept it as truth, then I disagree. AA hasn't earned the right to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his recruitment. He hasn't been truthful during the whole process, so I have no idea why anyone thinks that his word should be taken on face value.

The reason people don't trust what he says is because he has lied several times.

As Rhode mentioned, don't take this as an insult to AA. I hope he has a fine career, gets a good education and has a great life. No skin off of our backs as fans. But I will not say that he handled his recruitment well or that his word can be trusted, because his actions have proven that to be incorrect.

I'm not sure he "lied." Being the father of a couple kids right around AA's age, I can tell you that what they say today is not always the truth tomorrow. Not intentional in the way the term "lie" would lead one to believe. Today my daughter's best friend is Jane, tomorrow her best friend is Sue. I don't think I'd call her a liar.

I get it, he does not have a history of dependability with the ND fanbase sufficient for many to give him the benefit of the doubt when he says what the reason was. Most of us here are adults who should know better than to assign our own reasons because we don't have faith in his. I don't doubt that he was honest at any time he made a public statement. He's just a kid.

 

[connor_in]

Here is my thing with the AA/BK thing...the first notice of BK interviewing with Philly was Wed night after 8:30pm...the first notice of AA switch was Thursday afternoon around 4:15. Therefore, what you are looking at is someone who didn't even wait for any explanation and pulled a 180 in less than 20 hours. We were all still in WTF mode, but the full on meltdown hadn't really begun yet and it was already "he gone" time for AA.

So, did it play a part...maybe, but only as the proverbial straw on the camel's back. Yes he said it was the cause, but at the same point he had recently repeated his all irish staements as well. I wish him the best and think he would have been very good for us...but oh well...NEXT MAN IN

 

[Irish#1]

I don't see it as Rhode not accepting that he stated that BK was the reason, but if you are asking why he cant accept it as truth, then I disagree. AA hasn't earned the right to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his recruitment. He hasn't been truthful during the whole process, so I have no idea why anyone thinks that his word should be taken on face value.

The reason people don't trust what he says is because he has lied several times.

As Rhode mentioned, don't take this as an insult to AA. I hope he has a fine career, gets a good education and has a great life. No skin off of our backs as fans. But I will not say that he handled his recruitment well or that his word can be trusted, because his actions have proven that to be incorrect.

Spot on.

He left telltale signs throughout that his recruitment was iffy at best. I think as ND fans, some chose to conveniently ignore the signs once he said he was Irish. I have no ill feelings towards him and he's a top talent that will be missed, but given the talent of this class it won't have the impact that it might have had in recent years.

 

[Irish#1]

Whore or hire? LOL

I agree. My hope is that Jack is still around when BK does eventually move on. I do have confidence in Jack's abilities to make good decisions.

I fixed it, but talk about a Freudian slip! lol

 

[irishpat183]

Well, proved me wrong. Good for us.


But I'm still sour on the whole thing. BK lost some points with me, at least. (I'm sure, like Harrison Smith, he gives a crap) I wish I could neg rep him for this whole thing.


I'm just nervous when we REALLY get this machine running, he's out the door.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Here is my thing with the AA/BK thing...the first notice of BK interviewing with Philly was Wed night after 8:30pm...the first notice of AA switch was Thursday afternoon around 4:15. Therefore, what you are looking at is someone who didn't even wait for any explanation and pulled a 180 in less than 20 hours. We were all still in WTF mode, but the full on meltdown hadn't really begun yet and it was already "he gone" time for AA.

So, did it play a part...maybe, but only as the proverbial straw on the camel's back. Yes he said it was the cause, but at the same point he had recently repeated his all irish staements as well. I wish him the best and think he would have been very good for us...but oh well...NEXT MAN IN

This thread had some "sky is falling" posts around 4:15 Thursday afternoon.

 

[ThePiombino]

Well, proved me wrong. Good for us.


But I'm still sour on the whole thing. BK lost some points with me, at least. (I'm sure, like Harrison Smith, he gives a crap) I wish I could neg rep him for this whole thing.


I'm just nervous when we REALLY get this machine running, he's out the door.

If the machine is truly running, his departure won't hurt as much. Let's hope we get to that point first. Here's hoping to at least a couple more years with BK.

 

[ThePiombino]

This thread had some "sky is falling" posts around 4:15 Thursday afternoon.

Definitely true, but the sentiment of the post is accurate IMO. I think the overall sentiment at that time was more "Whoa! Where did this come from??" than "He gone". Point is AA bolted before anyone truly "knew" anything, even though it turns out no one really knew anything at all, at least no one from the major media outlets.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

Well, proved me wrong. Good for us.


But I'm still sour on the whole thing. BK lost some points with me, at least. (I'm sure, like Harrison Smith, he gives a crap) I wish I could neg rep him for this whole thing.


I'm just nervous when we REALLY get this machine running, he's out the door.

I agree, it looks like he will be out the door a lot sooner than we all hope, but is BK really the answer? I'm not saying he is, not saying he isn't, but I really want a guy that is here to stay and is all about ND, I thought that was Kelly, but with the recent rif-raf I'm not getting that feeling anymore. I did when he first came here, and maybe that was all part of his game, was to get the fan base to love him right before he jumped ship. Either way, Kelly has made being the HC at ND a lot more prettier than it use to. If and when Kelly leaves and he continues having the success that he's had so far with winning and recruiting (The only two aspects I care about with a coach halfway out the door), we may not have to go down to our 3rd or 4th options, we may actually be able to say; "Hey I think Jon Gruden would be a great fit at ND Jack, go get him" and we offer him an obsene amoutn of money, and boom, he's here coaching". Gruden was just an example, but it would be IMO, an ideal situation to have Gruden as our future HC, what a motivator that guy can be!

GO IRISH, GO BK!

 

[Emcee77]

Re AA, think of it this way: When Arik Armstead wasn't sure if his brother could get cleared by ND, he delayed reporting to campus. For several days, even after classes started, he waited, and only decided not to come to ND a week or more after the other EE's reported. So why couldn't AA have waited at least through the weekend to see whether BK was going to stay or not? It's quite clear to me that he was looking for any excuse to bolt ND for UF. It's just where his heart was all along. And as others have said, Lynch showed what happens when a guy comes to ND even though his heart is somewhere else.

HUGE bummer, because linebackers like AA who are great in space are exactly what a defense like ours needs to succeed. He was a great prospect for us, so the whole thing sucks, but there's nothing you can do when a kid's heart is somewhere else. Best of luck to him, I guess.

 

[GoIrish41]

Definitely true, but the sentiment of the post is accurate IMO. I think the overall sentiment at that time was more "Whoa! Where did this come from??" than "He gone". Point is AA bolted before anyone truly "knew" anything, even though it turns out no one really knew anything at all, at least no one from the major media outlets.

Maybe it told him all he needed to know. Maybe it said Kelly might not be there this year, maybe next or the year after. Maybe it told him that Kelly didn't want to be at ND or that he was willing to turn his back on his team. Maybe it told him that the coach wasn't "all in" or suggested that he was willing to talk to the highest bidder -- none of which looks good if you a recruit getting ready to sign in a few days. Let's not forget there was a time crunch for this kid if he wanted to EE. None of this was going to be sorted out in time for him to make a measured decision so maybe he chose the school that he was sure was going to have an in tact staff.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Potential IE Motto?:

"Bring me into the company of those who seek the Truth, but deliver me from those who have found it".



{Attributed to everybody from Goethe, Andrew Gide, to Albert Einstein}.

 

[WaveDomer]

When arguing that AA was flaky because of his actions, you must also recognize that CBK has also done similar job switches in the past. Just ask Mardy Gilyard from Cincinnati. So IMHO, all ND fans who "freaked" get a lot of leeway here. CBK made his bed, so to speak in terms of this type of thing.

But I'm very happy he is staying because he is building something great and him leaving would have set ND back for sure. Plus, I think he is running the program in the right way.