War in afghanistan

DSully1995

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This fascinates me alot and id like the wide ranging views on the IE forum, so decided to start a thread, what does everybody think about the war, should NATO countries continue their efforts? (and most interesting to me, why are soldiers protecting opium fields...)
 

Corry

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As a person who has fought in that god awful place I can say with out reservation we need to bring the boys and girls home.
 

Bobias

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Was the point ever to even get Bin *****?

i dont even know why nato went in the first place

Power and money. Its always about those two things when it gets right down to it no matter how much propaganda they spew about terrorism, religous bias, and cultural differences.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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The Greeks couldn't hold it, the Indians couldn't hold it, the British couldn't hold it, and the Russians couldn't hold it.

I see this war as little more than the military-industrial complex making more and more enemies to guarantee business. There is simply no way in hell that the military can win the war when Pakistan is just harboring them, and when you'd need to change the culture and that isn't going to happen with us involved. One look at the Pashtuns and you'd realize that the place isn't worth saving.
 

pumpdog20

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Apparently, 9/11 was a long time ago for some. We went over there, because that's where the guys were who blew up the TT were.

The crap happened when we cleared it out, but also created a massive government vaccum, in a region used to being oppressed. The military chaning it's policy from war fighting to nation building is where this all went wrong.

Our government tried to convert our military into the U.N., which obviously failed, but it shouldn't have happened. We should have secured a deal with U.N., NATO, or whatever peacekeeping force is out there, to clean up our mess once we were done.

And, we should have never have gone to Iraq, which I got to spend 13 misrable months, including missing the birth of my first child.

(enough of my sob story)
 

notredomer23

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Afghanistan is just a complicated place. There has literally never, ever in this history of it been a stable government or regime that lasted for more than 100 years. It is a miserable place. Also, I feel like most the terrorists that mastermind the attacks worldwide probably aren't in Afghanistan anymore.

My solution to the problem:

113988.jpg


Joking aside, I think we should get out. It has been too long. I realize that a presence in the Middle East is essential, but we may have bigger fish to fry than Afghanis in the next decade.
 

mgriff

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Irish8248

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Remove troops use tomahawk missiles and precision guided bombs to take care of business
 

NDBoiler

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Remove troops use tomahawk missiles and precision guided bombs to take care of business

That was how early efforts in the 1990's to kill Bin ***** and disrupt AQ were unsuccessfully done after the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. Bottom line is, the use of state of the art technology alone does not ensure defeat of one's enemies. Boots on the ground are often necessary, it's just very unfortunate that our brave men and women in uniform are not always put into a position to be successful.
 

11cracker11

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If and when we ever go to war it is a disservice to a brave troops to expect them to follow ludicrous ROE's. Our boys are over there risking everything and in many instances they can't defend themselves unless directly fired upon first. That is unfortunate, you don't go to war and then tie one hand behind their backs. When the Seal Team Six chopper was shot down I heard one of the fathers say that the other chopper saw the AQ fighter with the RPG on the water tower but since there may have been a friendly in the tower they were not allowed to fire. I think 26 of our most highly trained and lethal fighters were killed and we didn't even return fire because we might and Afghani "friendly". Bring em home and dont ever send them anywhere to be nation builders or trainers of local forces...it never works out
 

Corry

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Apparently, 9/11 was a long time ago for some. We went over there, because that's where the guys were who blew up the TT were.

The crap happened when we cleared it out, but also created a massive government vaccum, in a region used to being oppressed. The military chaning it's policy from war fighting to nation building is where this all went wrong.

Our government tried to convert our military into the U.N., which obviously failed, but it shouldn't have happened. We should have secured a deal with U.N., NATO, or whatever peacekeeping force is out there, to clean up our mess once we were done.

And, we should have never have gone to Iraq, which I got to spend 13 misrable months, including missing the birth of my first child.

(enough of my sob story)

Thank you for service bro.
 

Old Man Mike

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There never was an Afghanistan, just like there never was an Iraq nor a Yugoslavia. These are/were made up countries by western powers trying to set up things to suit themselves. Since "tribal" cultures of long distrust and even hatred refuse to even give living together a try, the only "solution" is an iron brutal tyrant or having everyone try to kill one another until a mess of small culturally distinct nations arises.

We are paying for the crap vested upon us by our "revered ancestors" in the business and politics world. Unfortunately for our own selfish little person interests, we are overburdened economically and some of us even to death or family breakup by a nearly incredible bonehead decision to get us involved heavily in TWO such places where "wars" are unwinnable and interminable.

Our country's only chance for economic healing is to get at least these two elephants off our back, and use what economic wherewithall that we still have to try to dig out of our other serious problems. Get everybody out of there as fast as possible.

That Rare Earths thing will take care of itself. It will not be worth the risk to China to move in, as they already have "theirs". Russia MIGHT want to exploit the resource, but they're more unpopular than we are. Some mining/refining giant will move in with a sweetheart deal with whatever crooks are "in office" at the moment, bring a powerful company police force in for stability, and just kill all intruders like they do around the Zambian and Southern Zaire chromium and copper mining areas.

Then we Americans will be able to not notice any of this as our media looks at the next singing hit, computer game toy, or gossip scandal, instead of world affairs, and we can enjoy our next burger in peace.

This reminds me of the commercial where some fool is given some money to invest in something substantial or chicken wings.

My version: Hey, this guy just gave me this ticket that I can use to provide hundreds of people water and food for Christmas or buy barbequed wings.

I'm thinkin' wings!!!.




None of the above diminishes my affection for you guys [and gals] who served loyally in these affairs. You did your duty as true soldiers and God Bless you for shouldering such an awful task.
 
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ChiRish

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There never was an Afghanistan, just like there never was an Iraq nor a Yugoslavia. These are/were made up countries by western powers trying to set up things to suit themselves. Since "tribal" cultures of long distrust and even hatred refuse to even give living together a try, the only "solution" is an iron brutal tyrant or having everyone try to kill one another until a mess of small culturally distinct nations arises.

We are paying for the crap vested upon us by our "revered ancestors" in the business and politics world. Unfortunately for our own selfish little person interests, we are overburdened economically and some of us even to death or family breakup by a nearly incredible bonehead decision to get us involved heavily in TWO such places where "wars" are unwinnable and interminable.

Our country's only chance for economic healing is to get at least these two elephants off our back, and use what economic wherewithall that we still have to try to dig out of our other serious problems. Get everybody out of there as fast as possible.

That Rare Earths thing will take care of itself. It will not be worth the risk to China to move in, as they already have "theirs". Russia MIGHT want to exploit the resource, but they're more unpopular than we are. Some mining/refining giant will move in with a sweetheart deal with whatever crooks are "in office" at the moment, bring a powerful company police force in for stability, and just kill all intruders like they do around the Zambian and Southern Zaire chromium and copper mining areas.

Then we Americans will be able to not notice any of this as our media looks at the next singing hit, computer game toy, or gossip scandal, instead of world affairs, and we can enjoy our next burger in peace.

This reminds me of the commercial where some fool is given some money to invest in something substantial or chicken wings.

My version: Hey, this guy just gave me this ticket that I can use to provide hundreds of people water and food for Christmas or buy barbequed wings.

I'm thinkin' wings!!!.




None of the above diminishes my affection for you guys [and gals] who served loyally in these affairs. You did your duty as true soldiers and God Bless you for shouldering such an awful task.

Pretty much everything he said. Well thought out, eloquent, and intelligent. Just like the mess in Africa that was created by the race to colonize the continent by European powers in the 1800s, the Middle East is a messed up arrangement of imaginary lines that never existed before the powers that be in world politics put them there.

OMM, spot on.
 

tadman95

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I was ok with going to Afghanistan, we needed to get payback. Pulling resources from there to go into Iraq was a major mis-step and delayed getting out of Afghanistan.

Hopefully we'll be out soon, leave it to the Black Ops and drones to keep things tidy.

We do have to have confidence in getting the rare earth minerals. I think China currently controls 90% if I remember correctly. They (minerals) could also be a major force in building Afghanistan up.

To those who have served, Thank You!
 

scUM Hater

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This fascinates me alot and id like the wide ranging views on the IE forum, so decided to start a thread, what does everybody think about the war, should NATO countries continue their efforts? (and most interesting to me, why are soldiers protecting opium fields...)

Guy who started this thread lives in Canada. Wish USA could be like Canada sometimes and just care about ourselves and stay out of the middle east crap.
 

DSully1995

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Guy who started this thread lives in Canada. Wish USA could be like Canada sometimes and just care about ourselves and stay out of the middle east crap.

Unfortunately Canadian troops were in afghanistan, just got out (mostly, still doing training i think) in 2011
 

Downinthebend

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Afghan Children Legitimate Targets, Says U.S. Lt. Col., As They Might Have "Hostile Intent" - Hit & Run : Reason.com

"When the war gets to this level--whether or not we believe the Army's assertions that the kids it's killing in Afghanistan deserved it--it's time to rethink whether you are winning hearts and minds, nation rebuilding, or just involved in an endless insane game of blowing **** up and making people so mad they give you what you think is a legitimate excuse to keep blowing **** up."
 

irish1958

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They asked George H Bush why he didn't "finish the job."
He said I know how to get in, but I have no idea how to get out.
Unfortunately, his son didn't know either; he just left the mess for Mr. Obama to clean up. To make the job a bit of a challenge, he wrecked the economy before he retired to the great state of Texas.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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They asked George H Bush why he didn't "finish the job."
He said I know how to get in, but I have no idea how to get out.
Unfortunately, his son didn't know either; he just left the mess for Mr. Obama to clean up. To make the job a bit of a challenge, he wrecked the economy before he retired to the great state of Texas.

This is pure malarkey. Guys like Petraus cleaned it up, and the solution happened under Bush's watch....Obama is on tape initially being against "the surge."

To blame the economic on Bush is beyond ignorant. Ill leave it at that.
 

irish1958

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I am glad that I am beyond ignorant. At least I am smarter than that moron GWB.
(Sorry morons, I mean no disrespect; I am just trying to be honest.)
 

IrishinSyria

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Fascinating reading this thread from Afghanistan. Can't really give my two cents, but I will say that the only people who are unambiguously wrong about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are the ones with the simple statements about the wars and America's rightful place in them. "It's all about power" or "blood for oil" or "we're there because of 9/11" etc... are all wrong. There might be an element of truth in each of those statements but the full story is far more complex.

What I will say about Afghanistan is that it is a beautiful country that has seen far too much blood shed over the centuries. The Afghan people have a mindset that is almost incomprehensible to us, but they are also incredibly tough and persevering. I've watched an old afghan man, hobbled by age and injury, work for hours on his farm with nothing but a shovel to aid him. These people are remarkable in their own way, and it would be to the world's benefit if the ISAF mission here succeeds and wins the country a modicum of peace.
 
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