'13 TX RB Jamel James (Texas State Verbal)

Domina Nostra

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Small, possibly insignificant point: I applied to five colleges. Notre Dame was number four on my preferred list. ND was the first to accept my application. I was happy to accept their acceptance.

Had any of my top three subsequently invited me to enroll, I'd have flipped in a second. Good, bad or indifferent that didn't happen.

I wasn't a premier football prospect, just a middling swimmer. My point is simply this: I would have been remiss had I not entertained later visits or scholarship enticements. While my goals were overwhelmingly educational, there is a parallel.

College recruiting, be it for athletics or academics (or a combination of the two) is a two way street. Cut the kids and their families some slack.

It almost seems like you are are arguing "I would do what James is doing; therefore, what James is doing is fine." I think the exact opposite: I know that I am capable of doing selfish things, so I am not shocked when a recruit does something selfish.

You don't have to draw any conclusions about the kid's soul to think that his argument that he should be able to hold onto his spot in a class while he makes up his mind--effectively treating ND as a insurance policy rather than a commitment--is BS.

If he comes, great! We should fight to keep him in the fold. But if you are taking visits you should lose your spot until you are done.

What if a kid tore his ACL and was projected to lose his Tier 1 talent the week before taking a few visits to rival schools... Do you give him a four year scholarship? Why?
 
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IrishLax

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It almost seems like you are are arguing "I would do what James is doing; therefore, what James is doing is fine." I think the exact opposite: I know that I am capable of doing selfish things, so I am not shocked when a recruit does something selfish.

You don't have to draw any conclusions about the kid's soul to think that his argument that he should be able to hold onto his spot in a class while he makes up his mind--effectively treating ND as a insurance policy rather than a commitment--is BS.

If he comes, great! We should fight to keep him in the fold. But if you are taking visits you should lose your spot until you are done.

What if a kid tore his ACL and was projected to lose his Tier 1 talent the week before taking a few visits to rival schools... Do you give him a four year scholarship? Why?

This. If this is how James intended to operate, he should have said so up front instead of call up the coaches and begging to "commit" without even visiting. Coaches either would've said "that's cool" or "let us know when you're ready to shut things down and we'll take your commitment."

Simply put, if James had been up front he wouldn't be a part of this class. Corey Clement would. So I don't understand people going out of their way to defend "it's his right to do XYZ"... of course it's his "right"... that doesn't make it an OK decision taking the perspective of ND. In fact, it shows a total disregard for anyone but himself. It is, at best, a selfish move... and that can be tolerated in some cases. At worst, he's been completely disingenuous from the moment he realized he didn't have commitable scholarships to Arkansas and Florida State and scrambled to find the next top tier school that would take him. You should not be able to make a "reservation" in case you blow your knee out. That's effectively what he did. This doesn't come up at schools like USC or Alabama because they'll just say "sorry" in early February and not let you sign. Because we don't operate that way, we can't afford to let kids operate the way James is right now. Which is why the staff has adopted the "looking if you're looking" approach and continues to recruit kids even when positions are filled.
 

tadman95

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This. If this is how James intended to operate, he should have said so up front instead of call up the coaches and begging to "commit" without even visiting. Coaches either would've said "that's cool" or "let us know when you're ready to shut things down and we'll take your commitment."

Simply put, if James had been up front he wouldn't be a part of this class. Corey Clement would. So I don't understand people going out of their way to defend "it's his right to do XYZ"... of course it's his "right"... that doesn't make it an OK decision taking the perspective of ND. In fact, it shows a total disregard for anyone but himself. It is, at best, a selfish move... and that can be tolerated in some cases. At worst, he's been completely disingenuous from the moment he realized he didn't have commitable scholarships to Arkansas and Florida State and scrambled to find the next top tier school that would take him. You should not be able to make a "reservation" in case you blow your knee out. That's effectively what he did. This doesn't come up at schools like USC or Alabama because they'll just say "sorry" in early February and not let you sign. Because we don't operate that way, we can't afford to let kids operate the way James is right now. Which is why the staff has adopted the "looking if you're looking" approach and continues to recruit kids even when positions are filled.

I agree. Although we really don't know for sure what is going on behind the scenes, I agree to that point. I also agree with Wooly that we shouldn't be attacking recruits here because we don't know all of the facts and well, I just think we're better than that. I have full faith that Kelly and Co. will do the right thing for Notre Dame and the recruits.
 

dad4aa

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I know I am a noob at posting (although I have been following posters for about a year) and the whole point of these types of sites are to "discuss" and "share" points of view, but how long do we continue to go back an forth on "should we keep him or let him go"? Everyone has valid points to explain their feeling. The only unacceptable position as Wooly and a few others pointed out is telling him to "gtfo".

That being said, no one is going to come up with such a prophetic statement as to bring everyone together in agreement to one side of this debate. The last 95 posts have all been about where everyone stands inregards to pursuing him, bailing on him, etc. with no new insight.

Maybe we can all agree to disagree and get back to updating his status, upcoming visits, where BK stands on his recruitment, etc. Not meaning to direspect anyone for sharing their opinion, but I keep coming back to read new posts hoping to get an update like we had with Anzalone where he reaffirmed his commitment and it is the same thing over and over.

Again, as a noob, I hope I am not offending or disrespecting anyone and I apologize if I did.
 

rocket66

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The question I have is why is James dropping like a rock in recruiting rankings?
 

greyhammer90

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Yeah fine, I'm sure you had all your marbles lined up when you were 18. A little self awareness goes a long way.

Off topic but I hate this excuse for "kids" more than anything. I remember pretty well what I was like at 18 considering that it wasn't that long ago. At 18 you know what's right, and you know what's wrong and you know that your actions affect others and that there are consequences for everything that you do.

Off topic from Jamel, but I've hated this excuse since I started following recruiting at 18. If a kid acts like a *** throughout the process, it might not be that he's 18. It might just be that he's a ***.
 

dublinirish

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The question I have is why is James dropping like a rock in recruiting rankings?

kid had stud underclassman seasons but a poor by his standards Junior year and his Senior Year has been just ok. Hence the drops in his ranking as time has gone on.
 

Irish#1

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I know I am a noob at posting (although I have been following posters for about a year) and the whole point of these types of sites are to "discuss" and "share" points of view, but how long do we continue to go back an forth on "should we keep him or let him go"? Everyone has valid points to explain their feeling. The only unacceptable position as Wooly and a few others pointed out is telling him to "gtfo".

That being said, no one is going to come up with such a prophetic statement as to bring everyone together in agreement to one side of this debate. The last 95 posts have all been about where everyone stands inregards to pursuing him, bailing on him, etc. with no new insight.

Maybe we can all agree to disagree and get back to updating his status, upcoming visits, where BK stands on his recruitment, etc. Not meaning to direspect anyone for sharing their opinion, but I keep coming back to read new posts hoping to get an update like we had with Anzalone where he reaffirmed his commitment and it is the same thing over and over.

Again, as a noob, I hope I am not offending or disrespecting anyone and I apologize if I did.

I don't think having a million posts on a board makes someones point more valid than someone who is just starting to post. It's the content of the posts and you've made some valid points.

The vast majority of us agree that this is an 18 year old kid who isn't sure what to do and that the door swings both ways. It's only a few that want to kick him to the curb. I'm 60 and I still don't have all the worlds problems solved although at 18 I thought I knew everything.
 

Emcee77

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This. If this is how James intended to operate, he should have said so up front instead of call up the coaches and begging to "commit" without even visiting. Coaches either would've said "that's cool" or "let us know when you're ready to shut things down and we'll take your commitment."

Simply put, if James had been up front he wouldn't be a part of this class. Corey Clement would. So I don't understand people going out of their way to defend "it's his right to do XYZ"... of course it's his "right"... that doesn't make it an OK decision taking the perspective of ND. In fact, it shows a total disregard for anyone but himself. It is, at best, a selfish move... and that can be tolerated in some cases. At worst, he's been completely disingenuous from the moment he realized he didn't have commitable scholarships to Arkansas and Florida State and scrambled to find the next top tier school that would take him. You should not be able to make a "reservation" in case you blow your knee out. That's effectively what he did. This doesn't come up at schools like USC or Alabama because they'll just say "sorry" in early February and not let you sign. Because we don't operate that way, we can't afford to let kids operate the way James is right now. Which is why the staff has adopted the "looking if you're looking" approach and continues to recruit kids even when positions are filled.

Off topic but I hate this excuse for "kids" more than anything. I remember pretty well what I was like at 18 considering that it wasn't that long ago. At 18 you know what's right, and you know what's wrong and you know that your actions affect others and that there are consequences for everything that you do.

Off topic from Jamel, but I've hated this excuse since I started following recruiting at 18. If a kid acts like a *** throughout the process, it might not be that he's 18. It might just be that he's a ***.

I see what you guys are saying, and I tend to agree, looking at it in a vacuum, that Jamel shouldn't have committed if he wasn't ready to commit, but every year kids are going to do that because they are kids and don't have the maturity to think long term, etc. That doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean all kids don't have that kind of maturity; like Greyhammer is saying, many of us probably were at least mature enough to understand how our actions affect other people when we were 18. James has failed to do that if he thinks its unfair that we won't let him take visits without jeopardizing his spot.

But I also tend to agree with Wooly that it makes no sense to get angry about it -- though maybe I have a different rationale. As I think Fbolt said, this is going to happen EVERY YEAR. It is a GIVEN with kids that age. There will always be some who don't have the maturity to determine what they really want in a college once and for all, as they are still growing, changing, maturing people, so they'll change their mind, want to revisit the decision, etc. So I don't see any point in wasting energy getting huffy about it, and I wish people wouldn't.

(By the way, go back and look at some of Jamel James's quotes from when he committed if you think that he wasn't all ND at the time. He said he was completely done with the process, he's thrilled to have found a second home, etc. Unless you think he is a bald-faced liar, I think you have to accept that he wasn't playing us from the start; he really thought ND was the place for him when he committed, even if he is having second thoughts now.)

All you can do is do what BK is doing: educate the kid, explain to him that we've been counting him in, other people want his spot and have moved on because we've told them that he is coming to ND, and if he isn't sure he's coming to ND then we may decide to offer his spot to someone else. There is no reason for moral outrage ... like so much of what BK and the staff do, it's an opportunity to teach a kid a lesson and help him grow up.

So to the extent that all Wooly is saying is that the moral outrage is misplaced, I totally agree. Save that stuff for the politics threads. It's not that anyone is wrong that James is wrong; it's that getting worked up about it is like getting worked up about turf toe. With young athletes, it's just going to happen sometimes.
 
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irishog77

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How many posts claimed, "GTFO?" Was it one post?

But yet we've heard about it ad nauseam like the vast majority of the board was shouting it over and over to Jamel.

As dad4aa said above-- let's move on to some real, actual news about this recruit.
 

Irishnuke

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I'm to the point now where I don't care either way if he and Mattingly stay or go. If they stay, great. If not, someone will take their spot. Not concerned at all. Our class is elite with or without those two.
 

NDFANnSouthWest

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99% grad rate, #1 in the Land, Tier 1 school...if a person does not want to commit to those numbers there is not much more we can do.
 

tadman95

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I don't think having a million posts on a board makes someones point more valid than someone who is just starting to post. It's the content of the posts and you've made some valid points.

The vast majority of us agree that this is an 18 year old kid who isn't sure what to do and that the door swings both ways. It's only a few that want to kick him to the curb. I'm 60 and I still don't have all the worlds problems solved although at 18 I thought I knew everything.

We did. Nobody listened.
 

ryno 24

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Guys he is still committed. Dont freak out. I want James and I think he is still coming to ND but Dont freak out or bash the kid
 

IrishFrog

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Didn't the kid have a knee injury earlier in the year? Maybe the staff told him he still had a scholarship at this point but wanted to see if the injury had any long term effects. Could just be covering his own rear. I know that Katy area is ridiculously talented in football in the state of TX. The fact that the kid chose ND over TX school offers without visiting says alot.
 

Rocky2820

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I know it's been speculated that if James starts looking then ND will likewise start looking. ISD is saying that, per a source close to James, ND has made it clear if James takes other visits, he’ll no longer be considered an Irish pledge.

Sorry for posting if this is known knowledge. I hadn't seen it stated quite that explicitly.
 

mkg77

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Guys he is still committed. Dont freak out. I want James and I think he is still coming to ND but Dont freak out or bash the kid

I agree. I think some of us are a little too quick to write off James. I completely get that he should not have committed if he wasn't sure, and that as the #1 team we're in a position of strength as to wavering recruits. That said, he brings a unique skill set in this class -- that of a powerful north-south runner. Other than (maybe) Mahone, we don't really have that talent on the roster after this season. Even if we get Folston (as I hope we do), he's a completely different kind of back -- more of a slasher, APB type than a north-south runner. Bryant may be more of a power guy, but I want to see more evidence of serious interest on his part before I'm willing to say goodbye to the one power guy we already have committed. So, in sum, I agree that the coaches should take a hard line with him about visits, but my hope is that, at the end of the day, he remains a member of our recruiting class.
 

irishff1014

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Did he have much to say about the us winning and advancing to the NC title game.
 

Domina Nostra

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I think James would win this year's "Romeo Okwara" award for ridiculously undervalued physical specimen. James is exactly what I like in RBs: sub 6', over 215 lbs, and fast (See Jonas Gray, Trent Richardson, etc.). We need to take a hybrid and bowling ball every year from here on out. Personally, I would skip on speedsters unless they are in the 4.3 range or are willing to play mostly slot.

I hope James sticks, but I am glad we are developing options. I know everyone is talking about the NC birth, but in SEC land Texas A&M is the up-and-comer. I am sure it is tempting to play in the SEC so close to home in Texas.
 

GoldenIsThyFame

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Per TV the issue for Jamel is grades. It is going to be very close in regards to if he can get in which is why he wants to set other visits in case that doesn't happen. He still wants to go to ND though.
 

Emcee77

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Man, that really sucks for Jamel. Tough, tough spot to be in.
 

Luckylucci

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It is a tough spot to be in but completely controllable on his end.
 

Emcee77

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I just wonder when he's going to get the word from admissions. What if he passes up opportunities to visit other schools to retain his spot in our class, then gets rejected by admissions, then find out that the other schools he was in contact with are full? Quite the dilemma.

From TV it sounds like he won't risk getting left out in the cold and will go ahead and take visits to other schools. "Good chance" he doesn't end up Irish.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Man, that really sucks for Jamel. Tough, tough spot to be in.

Tough spot for us as well. When a committed recruit starts taking visits, the staff no longer guarantees his spot in the class because they can't afford to get left holding the bag (like last year).

This situation is similar. Grades and visits are both entirely within the control of the recruit (though grades are cumulative, so they may be difficult to change at this point). Once it becomes clear that a commit might not get past admissions, what should the staff do?
 
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