Who is Likely Next (2013)

[Old Man Mike]

This is a wonderful recruiting class, and is once again a tribute to the excellence of Coach Kelly and our great staff.

But... to say as was noted above that we have filled ALL our needs is just not true. Coach and the staff have filled ALMOST all our needs [especially if Anzalone stays or the Big Hawaiian comes along by a surprise], but there is one glaring problem.

It is NOT a problem for next year. But just meditate on two seasons from now without Big Lou and Stephon-the-destroyer. Notre Dame makes it VERY difficult to defeat because we have two All-American quality [REALLY elite, therefore] D-Linemen of the Jumbo variety. None of our current 2013 recruits look even marginally like either of them. The D-Linemen on our oral commitment list look VERY good; none looks like Nix or Tuitt.

Unless Day becomes "Nix", and Jones becomes "Tuitt", we will line up in 2014 without the sort of elite Jumbos that we're reveling in now... And with no one even looking like Day or Jones behind them. Good players yes; Great jumbos, no.

Even if the oft-repeated fantasy of "oh, no sweat, we'll get them all next year" would be true, those "next year guys" would be freshmen in 2014. Nix wasn't "our Nix" as a freshman. Even Tuitt wasn't "our Tuitt".

I believe that the staff did the best that they could. But we didn't get "everything". 2013 will be fine; great even, with the two great jumbos back and wreaking havoc up front. Diaco will have to make do in 2014 --- Okwara/ Day/ Jones will be pretty good across the front, and Rochell/ Matuska/ Springmann/ Hounshell will be respectable subs [Rochell at least hopefully superb]. But there won't be the Earth-thundering presence of the two big men there.

We'll get by. But teams like Alabama and LSU, probably the OSUs, USCs, and OKs/FLs etc will not have to search far to find their jumbos littering their rosters. Diaco will find a way as he always does, but to say we got everything we needed just ain't so.

 

[aubeirish]

I Kelly has weaknesses like every human being, but he is the best coach in the country at developing talent.QUOTE]

Ouch. I dont know about that one there cowboy. Much as I hate to say it, that dirtbag in Tuscaloosa has the belt on that one.

But with any luck, the new NCAA academic requirements starting 2016 will fix him.

However, Kelly has done a great job no doubt.

That is easy when you can recruit 35 guys every year. That said, Saban is a great coach.
I just think that Kelly has done incredible things at much tougher places to win and recruit.

 

[Irishman77]

2014 is about as far as you can predict out, but I see this as the two deep scenario

Jones. Day. Tuitt

Rochell. Springman. Hounshell/okwara

Getting Malik McDowell and jay Hayes next year will let you sleep like a baby til at least 2017

 

[Ndaccountant]

This is a wonderful recruiting class, and is once again a tribute to the excellence of Coach Kelly and our great staff.

But... to say as was noted above that we have filled ALL our needs is just not true. Coach and the staff have filled ALMOST all our needs [especially if Anzalone stays or the Big Hawaiian comes along by a surprise], but there is one glaring problem.

It is NOT a problem for next year. But just meditate on two seasons from now without Big Lou and Stephon-the-destroyer. Notre Dame makes it VERY difficult to defeat because we have two All-American quality [REALLY elite, therefore] D-Linemen of the Jumbo variety. None of our current 2013 recruits look even marginally like either of them. The D-Linemen on our oral commitment list look VERY good; none looks like Nix or Tuitt.

Unless Day becomes "Nix", and Jones becomes "Tuitt", we will line up in 2014 without the sort of elite Jumbos that we're reveling in now... And with no one even looking like Day or Jones behind them. Good players yes; Great jumbos, no.

Even if the oft-repeated fantasy of "oh, no sweat, we'll get them all next year" would be true, those "next year guys" would be freshmen in 2014. Nix wasn't "our Nix" as a freshman. Even Tuitt wasn't "our Tuitt".

I believe that the staff did the best that they could. But we didn't get "everything". 2013 will be fine; great even, with the two great jumbos back and wreaking havoc up front. Diaco will have to make do in 2014 --- Okwara/ Day/ Jones will be pretty good across the front, and Rochell/ Matuska/ Springmann/ Hounshell will be respectable subs [Rochell at least hopefully superb]. But there won't be the Earth-thundering presence of the two big men there.

We'll get by. But teams like Alabama and LSU, probably the OSUs, USCs, and OKs/FLs etc will not have to search far to find their jumbos littering their rosters. Diaco will find a way as he always does, but to say we got everything we needed just ain't so.

I think those are all very valide points. But, I do want to remember one thing. The LB class should be improved from where we are today, in total. All of the LB's this year play well together and guys like Spond/Fox/Carlo have really stepped up their game. But, when you look at Jaylon, Randoplh, AA (I am hopeful he stays), AM/Mattingly, Deeb, etc I think there is a good chance that the LB core in total exceeds where we are today. I also think we are underestimating how big of a boy jones is. If he can play low, we will demand a double team each snap just like Big Lou does today.

In total, I think they need a very strong class along the DL next year, but with the combination of DL and LB in this class, I am not too concerned.

 

[NDdomer2]

Sometimes you have to play the class coming out too. Was this years class full of quality DT's with interest. Not really, but it was full of linebackers and db/athletes. Next year looks to have more big uglies with interest than other positions.

 

[Green Mountains]

In response to OMM - I think he is under valuing Isaac Rochell. I just looked at his and Stephon's recruiting profiles. They are very similar with similar rankings (although Tuitt was 5 start by one service). Big Isaac is ranking #5, #7 and 12 DE by the services. Stephon was ranked #2,9 and 9. There size is very similar. I don't think Rochell red shirt in 2013 and he will fill the Tuitt void in 2014.

With that said, will Isaac be an All American as a sophomore and a potential top 10 draft pick? Well, that's a lot to ask for. But I do think he is going to be a dominate DE in our scheme. I think the real need is replacing Irish Chocolate.

Realistically, we will see a transition from dominate D-Line to more dominate LB's. I think this class has set us up to transition from unbelievable front three/four to a LB core that simply flies all over the field. It's hard to believe I think LB will improve with Manti graduating, but the athletes we will put on the field are stunning. This starts next year with Grace and Council who we haven't seen much.. And it continues with the 2013 group.

I'm bullish on our defense going forward. It just might be a little different at which positions we dominate.

 

[nsisk157]

If slaughter gets his sixth, it could impact wood IMHO.

1.martin
2. Watt
3. Fox
4. Slaughter/wood

Leaves 2 spots for AQM and redfield.

I just can't see (maybe don't want to believe) that we would potentially let Slaughter or Wood go for Danny Fox. I know he is leaps and bounds better than last year but it doesn't sit with me.

I know the lot of you boys have much better insight on the reasoning for which guys stay and in which order, but a more versatile player in Slaughter (if healthy, which is a risk) or a dynamic RB in Cierre...

I do not know. Unless I missed the boat and we are speaking of Lo Wood, but he is only a junior...?

Just my two pennies

 

[koonja]

In response to OMM - I think he is under valuing Isaac Rochelle. I just looked at his and Stephon's recruiting profiles. They are very similar with similar rankings (although Tuitt was 5 start by one service). Big Isaac is ranking #5, #7 and 12 DE by the services. Stephon was ranked #2,9 and 9. There size is very similar. I don't think Rochelle red shirt in 2013 and he will fill the Tuitt void in 2014.

With that said, will Isaac be an All American as a sophomore and a potential top 10 draft pick? Well, that's a lot to ask for. But I do think he is going to be a dominate DE in our scheme. I think the real need is replacing Irish Chocolate.

Realistically, we will see a transition from dominate D-Line to more dominate LB's. I think this class has set us up to transition from unbelievable front three/four to a LB coremthat simply flies all over the field. It's hard to believe I think LB will improve with Manti graduating, but the athletes we will put on the field are stunning. This starts next year with Grace and Council who we haven't seen much ofmyet. And it continues with the 2013 group.

I'm bullish on our defense going forward. It just might be a little different at which positions we dominate.

If I'm understanding correctly, OMM is saying we need DT-like players. In which case, I completely agree with him. Rochell is by all accounts a stud, but 260lbs isn't 326lbs, and Okwara's not going to turn into a Tuitt. Tuitt and Nix, when lined up in the middle together, are terrors. If there's a hole in this class it's definately smack dab in the middle, and that's not a good spot to be on the short-end.

 

[Green Mountains]

I agree. But 260 pounds as a high school senior is not the weight that Rochell will play at ND. Look what happened to Tuitt's body. Give Longo a year and I think Rochell is 290 plus. It's eery how similar Tuitt and Rochell seem to be (from the region of the country, to their size, to their rankings). If Isaac is 80% of the player, we should be thrilled.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

2014 is about as far as you can predict out, but I see this as the two deep scenario

Jones. Day. Tuitt

Rochell. Springman. Hounshell/okwara

Getting Malik McDowell and jay Hayes next year will let you sleep like a baby til at least 2017

Don't bank on having Tuitt after 2013. He will be a top 5 pick and it is very difficult to pass up that money.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Also, one poster above assumes that Tuitt will still be here in 2014. That COULD be true, but even we are losing guys occasionally to the NFL early, and to go forward on the hope that the big guy will turn them down after three seasons and a possible first round draft is risk-taking. No rational roster manager would simply make that assumption.

The point of the post was that the assertion that ALL needs were filled isn't true. The big powers who play for NCs or are at least pretenders to do so, do not go blank in any year on the Bigs on either side of the line. MAYBE you can win an NC without dominant bigs both sides [and just do it with linebackers etc] by I have serious doubts.

 

[Emcee77]

What five stars are still in play for us? Are any sneaking into the light with our push to #3 in the nation? Inquiring minds want to know.

It kind of depends on where you look site wise. IMO, technically it'd only be Treadwell that is still in play but thats a long shot at this point. And I believe he's the only 5 star thats on the board. obvioulsy Mack, AQM, Redfield, and Robinson are great players but not 5 stars at this time

Mack is a 5 star on the 247 composite rankings. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

Mack and Treadwell are the only two though.

 

[connor_in]

Anyone have a combined listing of the breakdown of the All-Star games all of our 2013 recruits are headed to this post-HS season? I know that it has been noted deep in their respective threads, but didn't know if someone has or could find them and break them out to its own post.

I would, but I am not even supposed to be on here now...at work...

 

[CanadalovesND]

Anyone have a combined listing of the breakdown of the All-Star games all of our 2013 recruits are headed to this post-HS season? I know that it has been noted deep in their respective threads, but didn't know if someone has or could find them and break them out to its own post.

I would, but I am not even supposed to be on here now...at work...

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/not.../76736-notre-dame-commits-all-star-games.html

 

[Irishman77]

Also, one poster above assumes that Tuitt will still be here in 2014. That COULD be true, but even we are losing guys occasionally to the NFL early, and to go forward on the hope that the big guy will turn them down after three seasons and a possible first round draft is risk-taking. No rational roster manager would simply make that assumption.

The point of the post was that the assertion that ALL needs were filled isn't true. The big powers who play for NCs or are at least pretenders to do so, do not go blank in any year on the Bigs on either side of the line. MAYBE you can win an NC without dominant bigs both sides [and just do it with linebackers etc] by I have serious doubts.

I agree omm. We will have to see about Tuitt. I just didn't ASSUME he would be gone . I don't think the staff "blanked" on the "bigs". If tuitt and jones are bigs, then Rochell is a big. Lastly I think this class finally fixes the major depth issues Weiss caused. We won't be forced to take 5 ol or 5 lb in a class going forward and will have a more well rounded ,address all the needs type of class. Go Irish!

 

[Old Man Mike]

My view of our near future is that if:
a]. we can replace leadership on the defense [note that it is not just Manti, but Zeke and Kap who are gone];and
b]. "keep" Zach and Chris on offense, then we will be a monster team next year.

Then, in 2014, with all the offensive skill position needs filled with dazzlers, and with either Everett or Gunner operating at dangerously elite levels, and the O-Line stacked with a few great oldsters [ex. Hegarty, Stanley, Lombard too I think] and the Mighty Five rising up behind them, the offense will be near the best in the nation, and with a base for the foreseeable future.

Defensively in 2014, the D-Backfield will be one of the country's finest, and if Diaco can get the "fits" right, so will the linebackers. That leaves only the D-line that I have any qualms about at all. And there I have no qualms about edge rushers, just run-stuffers.

Maybe I shouldn't want the best units in the country at EVERY unit, but forgive me if I do.

 

[beryirish]

Don't bank on having Tuitt after 2013. He will be a top 5 pick and it is very difficult to pass up that money.

I was one of the guys who said that Te'o would stay for his senior year and I'm going to say that Tuitt is going to stay for his senior year.

 

[johnnykillz]

I was one of the guys who said that Te'o would stay for his senior year and I'm going to say that Tuitt is going to stay for his senior year.

Gosh I hope you're right but I don't think so...

 

[Emcee77]

Jason Sapp says there's room for at least two more frosh in this class. So he thinks we take no more than four fifth-years.

Not sure if he knows that or if it's his guess though.

 

[NDdomer2]

Jason Sapp says there's room for at least two more frosh in this class. So he thinks we take no more than four fifth-years.

Not sure if he knows that or if it's his guess though.

Didn't he say yesterday we were finished?

 

[Luckylucci]

No we are very actively still recruiting some select players.

 

[DomeLover3]

Wasn't Tuitt's mom very big on him getting his degree? I think he stays all four years.

Also, whose to say that the staff would bring Cierre Wood back? I would love to have him, I think hes our best back. But we have seen him get less carries and it would seem Theo has passed him on the depth chart. Maybe Cierre is in the staff's doghouse and they wouldn't invite him back. Perhaps they would opt for Fox or Slaughter or a new recruit

 

[DomeLover3]

Also... what if the staff decides that we absolutely need

Martin
Watt
Fox
Wood

... and it comes down to Jamoris v Redfield

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Wasn't Tuitt's mom very big on him getting his degree? I think he stays all four years.

Also, whose to say that the staff would bring Cierre Wood back? I would love to have him, I think hes our best back. But we have seen him get less carries and it would seem Theo has passed him on the depth chart. Maybe Cierre is in the staff's doghouse and they wouldn't invite him back. Perhaps they would opt for Fox or Slaughter or a new recruit

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's already been said that Slaughter won't get a 6th year. Cierre is without a doubt our best back and if he wants to stick around, the staff will let him. I don't think he's in the "doghouse" at all. I think the majority of the flexibility comes from whether or not to bring back Fox/Carlo and if certain guys like Wood/Martin leave for the NFL.

 

[woolybug25]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's already been said that Slaughter won't get a 6th year. Cierre is without a doubt our best back and if he wants to stick around, the staff will let him. I don't think he's in the "doghouse" at all. I think the majority of the flexibility comes from whether or not to bring back Fox/Carlo and if certain guys like Wood/Martin leave for the NFL.

See Slaughter's thread.

 

[DomeLover3]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's already been said that Slaughter won't get a 6th year. Cierre is without a doubt our best back and if he wants to stick around, the staff will let him. I don't think he's in the "doghouse" at all. I think the majority of the flexibility comes from whether or not to bring back Fox/Carlo and if certain guys like Wood/Martin leave for the NFL.

True the staff probably wouldn't let the doghouse affect the decision to bring him back.

But it is being discussed at length in Slaughter's thread that the staff is working to get him his 6th year.

 

[NDdomer2]

No we are very actively still recruiting some select players.

Being a member of this site I am obviously aware we are actively recuiting still. I just thought I read a post yesterday where Sapp said he thought we were wrapped up.

 

[woolybug25]

Also... what if the staff decides that we absolutely need

Martin
Watt
Fox
Wood

... and it comes down to Jamoris v Redfield

Redfield seems like an awesome recruit. But if Slaughter gets another year, then I would rather have Slaughter than Redfield. This will be a young defense next year and we will get a lot out of Slaughter's leadership. There will be a stud safety in the next class too.

 

[woolybug25]

Being a member of this site I am obviously aware we are actively recuiting still. I just thought I read a post yesterday where Sapp said he thought we were wrapped up.

I think that quote was him saying that, in his opinion, we don't need anyone else and should wrap it up.

 

[NDdomer2]

I think that quote was him saying that, in his opinion, we don't need anyone else and should wrap it up.

Found what I read. It was Wiltfong and I forgot there was an exception to his comment

fwiw, Wiltfong thinks we have met all of our needs for the 2013 class and should just look for the best available player the rest of the way.

He didn't say we were done just that needs have been met. I should slow down when I read some of these posts.