'13 FL CB MacKensie Alexander (Clemson Verbal)

[Emcee77]

To me it boils down to who gives us a better chance of winning the national championship next year. Just like a baseball team chasing a World Series ring gives up a 5 star prospect in return for that player, that may not be an all-star, but could be the missing piece. I'm not saying Carlo or Fox are the missing piece, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. If we win the national championship next year after our great season this year, we would have 5 stars beating down our door.

Yes. Kelly wants to win every game. He won't leave us undermanned at ILB next year because he wants Mack in 2015, not when there will likely be other guys ready to play at CB for us by then. If he decides he needs Carlo, Carlo stays. Now we don't know whether he needs Carlo or not because we don't know how good Grace and Moore are. But that's what will determine how many spots are left for freshmen.

 

[beryirish]

Yes. Kelly wants to win every game. He won't leave us undermanned at ILB next year because he wants Mack in 2015, not when there will likely be other guys ready to play at CB for us by then. If he decides he needs Carlo, Carlo stays. Now we don't know whether he needs Carlo or not because we don't know how good Grace and Moore are. But that's what will determine how many spots are left for freshmen.

Moore and Stockton seem to be the Van Wilder's of the team....they seem to have been on the team for yyyeeeaaaarrrssss

No value added to the conversation it just popped in my head.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

It's not even close how much more value there is in having Alexander/Redfield for FOUR years over Calabrese for ONE. It's not even debatable. Could these 4/5 star guys be a flop? I seriously doubt it. Have you seen their video????? While we're speculating 'what-if's', what if Carlo gets into another off-the field incident? What if he gets injured? It's not even a question.

You're very loyal to the players that are already here and I get that. But guess what? The violinists were loyal to the Titanic. They died. Loyalty has its limits.

lol thats great. I cant wait to use that

 

[Emcee77]

Your comparison to qbs is way off. You only ever play one qb at a time (next ND will likely have 5 next year) but you play 4 DBs at once and sometimes up to six depending on the team. That means that you need atleast 4 starting calibre DBs on your roster but its usually a luxury to have two good starting calibre QBs.

The comparison has nothing to do with the numbers of players at the position on the field at a time. It has to do with whether you are full at the position or not. I was pointing out that if the staff decides we are full at CB, then we won't need any more in this class, just as we are now full at QB. We will likely be full if we get one more (say, Luke). That will give us: Jackson, Russell, Atkinson, Brown, Lo Wood, Shumate, Butler, Kinlaw, (the incoming player). That's 9. Even if Shumate moves back to safety, WE ARE FULL AT CB. So the staff may or may not decide to take a star like Mack as a "best available" but in that situation we won't need another CB so it is a much more complex decision than people are making it out to be. People are acting like it's between Mack and Carlo but it's more like between Mack and another CB in 2014, after Jackson graduates.

 

[TheSunIsRising]

It's not even close how much more value there is in having Alexander/Redfield for FOUR years over Calabrese for ONE. It's not even debatable. Could these 4/5 star guys be a flop? I seriously doubt it. Have you seen their video????? While we're speculating 'what-if's', what if Carlo gets into another off-the field incident? What if he gets injured? It's not even a question.

You're very loyal to the players that are already here and I get that. But guess what? The violinists were loyal to the Titanic. They died. Loyalty has its limits.

#1: Did you read the entire post (or at least the first few lines)? Not nearly as simple as Mack for 4yrs vs. Carlo for 1yr.

#2: I'm not being loyal to anyone. I'm just saying that Kelly has to balance more than just a 2013 recruit vs 5th year senior in some made-up vaccuum world where people act that if Kelly keeps Calabrese that he can't fill that scholarship for 2014-2016.

If Kelly thinks that the recruiting momentum dies after 2013 and that he will be struggling to find recruits for a small 2014 class, or that Mack is a Manti-type program changer, then yeah it is a no-brainer. Otherwise, whichever 2013 'have-to-take this guy' prospects get accepted will make the 2014 decisions even more difficult.

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

The comparison has nothing to do with the numbers of players at the position on the field at a time. It has to do with whether you are full at the position or not. I was pointing out that if the staff decides we are full at CB, then we won't need any more in this class, just as we are now full at QB. We will likely be full if we get one more. That will give us: Jackson, Russell, Atkinson, Brown, Lo Wood, Shumate, Butler, Kinlaw, (the incoming player). That's 9. Even if Shumate moves back to safety, WE ARE FULL AT CB. So the staff may or may not decide to take a star like Mack as a "best available" but we don't need another CB so it is a much more complex decision than people are making it out to be. People are acting like it's between Mack and Carlo but it's more like between Mack and another CB in 2014.

The amount of players on the field at once is directly reflective of whether you are full at a position. Maybe once they lose Manti they want to switch to a 3-3-5, we don't know so I just hate how people say we won't take a player because we are full at the position. Most people don't know exactly what is going on in the program.

You contradict yourself pretty hard in this when you say the staff determines when a position is full and then you go onto say "WE ARE FULL AT CB" Which seems to be your own determination an not the staff's. What's to say that if we get these linebackers currently committed and one of AQM or Hollins then we aren't full at LB? Does the staff tell everyone exactly how many players for which position they are targeting and then never deviate from that. What's to say that they feel like there isn't any good CBs in next years recruiting class so they want to grab another one this year because in 2014 they feel good about the LBs? No one knows so stop saying we won't take anymore for sure.

What I don't understand is how people can say that ND will get another chance at a good CB the next year if Alexander is for some reason refused? Recruiting doesn't always work out that way.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

This 4 years of a 4 or 5 star versus 1 year of a 5th year like Carlo or Fox is past ridiculous.

It is:

4 years of an unproven but highly rated 4/5 star (who may or may not live up to his billing, and may or may not have character issues - not saying Mack does, but Lynch was a 'gotta take' prospect who turned into a locker-room 'distraction)

vs.

1 year of a proven, if not spectacular 5th year (who by all accounts is positive with his teammates) PLUS the first 3 years of an unknown 2014 recruit's career. Based on the way the recruiting momentum is going, that 2014 player could be as good as or even better than the 2013 4/5 star.

If Kelly does not take Alexander (or some other top prospect in 2013) and retains a 5th year player, it isn't like Kelly can't use that scholarship in the 2014 recruiting class. Now, he may not know specifically who that 'extra' player is in 2014, and it is entirely possible that the recruiting momentum dies after this year, but 2014 is already slated to be a low numbers class, and coaches like to get balance across the various years so that they can stay away from classes that are 13-15 players max.

If Kelly and Alford believe that the recruiting horizon is brightening for ND, they may well decide that it is the right thing to do to keep some of the defensive chemistry in 2013, and balance the class across the years. Both Te'o and KLM are gone after this year, as is Motta: the 3 guys most noted for 'leading' the defense. Kelly may decide he doesn't want to sacrifice some of the leadership/intangibles for pure talent, if he believes that he will be turning players away for 2014.

Classic 'bird in the hand' issue, but over multiple years, that Kelly is paid to balance

There is a set # of players we can take. If we reach that # and a player like Mack wants to come on signing day then one of the 5th years not coming back is a possible scenario.

I honestly don't see how this applies to Carlo. If you can point out plays where he does do great I would gladly change my mind.

2014 will be led by the D line no doubt. Fox is a Sr at one of the ILB and BJax in the secondary. Grace and Moore are upperclassman they should be ready to go.

Lastly "bird in hand" is exactly what Mack would be if he wanted to come... Passing on top 5 CB for maybe a 2014 player his caliber just doesn't seem like a smart move. Besides they can play the 2 best 2013 freshman corners on special teams and RS the other(s) and voila you have their years spaced out.

 

[Emcee77]

The amount of players on the field at once is directly reflective of whether you are full at a position. Maybe once they lose Manti they want to switch to a 3-3-5, we don't know so I just hate how people say we won't take a player because we are full at the position. Most people don't know exactly what is going on in the program.

You contradict yourself pretty hard in this when you say the staff determines when a position is full and then you go onto say "WE ARE FULL AT CB" Which seems to be your own determination an not the staff's. What's to say that if we get these linebackers currently committed and one of AQM or Hollins then we aren't full at LB? Does the staff tell everyone exactly how many players for which position they are targeting and then never deviate from that. What's to say that they feel like there isn't any good CBs in next years recruiting class so they want to grab another one this year because in 2014 they feel good about the LBs? No one knows so stop saying we won't take anymore for sure.

What I don't understand is how people can say that ND will get another chance at a good CB the next year if Alexander is for some reason refused? Recruiting doesn't always work out that way.

Whoa, I never said that. My whole point is that we don't know for sure. By typing "WE ARE FULL AT CB" I was only emphasizing--and I thought this was clear but maybe not--that if we get one more CB commit we will have 8 CBs on the 2013 roster (perhaps 9, depending on Shumate) which is ideal depth. That's going four deep at each CB spot. 22 starting spots on the team times four is 88 ... there are 85 scholarships so we can't go four deep at every position so even 8 at CB may be a lot, depending on safety depth. If someone commits before Mack and takes that 8th spot, the staff may decide to take Mack as a ninth ... my point is that that decision requires a complex determination of what the needs are at the other positions. It is NOT as simple as "Mack for 4 years is better than Carlo for 1." That kind of reasoning oversimplifies the decision.

It kind of sounds like we agree more than we disagree.

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

Whoa, I never said that. My whole point is that we don't know for sure. By typing "WE ARE FULL AT CB" I was only emphasizing--and I thought this was clear but maybe not--that if we get one more CB commit we will have 8 CBs on the 2013 roster (perhaps 9, depending on Shumate) which is ideal depth. That's going four deep at each CB spot. 22 starting spots on the team times four is 88 ... there are 85 scholarships so we can't go four deep at every position so even 8 at CB may be a lot, depending on safety depth. If someone commits before Mack and takes that 8th spot, the staff may decide to take Mack as a ninth ... my point is that that decision requires a complex determination of what the needs are at the other positions. It is NOT as simple as "Mack for 4 years is better than Carlo for 1." That kind of reasoning oversimplifies the decision.

It kind of sounds like we agree more than we disagree.

Yeah I didn't mean that directly at you but it seems to have come out that way so sorry. It seems that we do agree that there is an arbitrary number that must be filled for each position.

Also I don't believe ND ends up getting Alexander anyway, but it is nice that he considers ND his leader. Wouldn't hurt to the leader on signing day though.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

if thats how you think then cut Heggie, Luke Massa etc right now and save on their scholly's for 2 years!

ND gives them 4 year scholarships. Players like Jake Golic and soon Bruce Heggie and Luke Massa will have had their 4 years and will be free to play elsewhere or take their great education and put it into action. I don't want to cut players, but I want to not get too attached to backups that we pass over 5 stars.

 

[jerboski]

Carlo will be brought back as well as Fox, both of them have a ton of snaps under their belt and have game experience which is what Kelly talks about all the time. We have to realize Manti is leaving and somebody has to be able to line the front seven up and do it effectively, that man will most likely be Carlo. Granted, he is nowhere close to a Manti but he has the most experience and is a starter for a reason

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Carlo will be brought back as well as Fox, both of them have a ton of snaps under their belt and have game experience which is what Kelly talks about all the time. We have to realize Manti is leaving and somebody has to be able to line the front seven up and do it effectively, that man will most likely be Carlo. Granted, he is nowhere close to a Manti but he has the most experience and is a starter for a reason

This is assuming Carlo knows these things.

Kelly has also showed he is willing to play young players; see Golson and Kei.

From ISD Dec 2011

JARRETT GRACE, ILB

Notre Dame defensive coordinator Bob Diaco is prone to keeping things close to the vest. The Irish coach often prefers to speak in generalities and broad philosophical terms, desiring to prevent opponents from gleaning any nuggets from what he might have to say to the media.

Diaco is also not prone to heap much praise on his position players, especially the young ones. That’s what makes his attitude towards freshman linebacker Jarrett Grace a bit surprising. When asked about the former Cincinnati Colerain star, Diaco cannot hide his excitement.

“He’s going to be awesome, he really is,” Diaco said, gushing with praise for his freshman linebacker. “He’s a werewolf, he really is. He’s got it all. Smart, big, tough, aggressive, fast, demonstrative, communicator, he’s going to be a beast.”

Diaco continued to heap praise on Grace without any prodding.

“It’s because he’s got the whole package,” continued the Notre Dame linebackers coach. “He’s aggressive, nasty, loves football, loves this place (Notre Dame), demonstrative communicator, runs fast, large body, hard worker.”

Despite being an inexperienced freshman Grace has already emerged as a vocal football player, an essential quality in a Notre Dame Mike linebacker.

“He’s got a drive, he’s got three objectives to get done,” Diaco explained. “Number one is to get the defense called and lined up and adjusted. To do that you have to know it, and you have to be able to communicate it, and be willing to communicate it.”

 

[McGlovin]

This is assuming Carlo knows these things.

Kelly has also showed he is willing to play young players; see Golson and Kei.

From ISD Dec 2011

JARRETT GRACE, ILB

Notre Dame defensive coordinator Bob Diaco is prone to keeping things close to the vest. The Irish coach often prefers to speak in generalities and broad philosophical terms, desiring to prevent opponents from gleaning any nuggets from what he might have to say to the media.

Diaco is also not prone to heap much praise on his position players, especially the young ones. That’s what makes his attitude towards freshman linebacker Jarrett Grace a bit surprising. When asked about the former Cincinnati Colerain star, Diaco cannot hide his excitement.

“He’s going to be awesome, he really is,” Diaco said, gushing with praise for his freshman linebacker. “He’s a werewolf, he really is. He’s got it all. Smart, big, tough, aggressive, fast, demonstrative, communicator, he’s going to be a beast.”

Diaco continued to heap praise on Grace without any prodding.

“It’s because he’s got the whole package,” continued the Notre Dame linebackers coach. “He’s aggressive, nasty, loves football, loves this place (Notre Dame), demonstrative communicator, runs fast, large body, hard worker.”

Despite being an inexperienced freshman Grace has already emerged as a vocal football player, an essential quality in a Notre Dame Mike linebacker.

“He’s got a drive, he’s got three objectives to get done,” Diaco explained. “Number one is to get the defense called and lined up and adjusted. To do that you have to know it, and you have to be able to communicate it, and be willing to communicate it.”

That's awesome man, some heavy praise from an otherwise reserved guy.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Carlo will be brought back as well as Fox, both of them have a ton of snaps under their belt and have game experience which is what Kelly talks about all the time. We have to realize Manti is leaving and somebody has to be able to line the front seven up and do it effectively, that man will most likely be Carlo. Granted, he is nowhere close to a Manti but he has the most experience and is a starter for a reason

How do you know he can do that? Grace or Moore could easily be better at it and we don't know. Calabrese plays off of his emotions with is great at times but it doesn't give me confidence that he can be the leader of a D.

 

[Luckylucci]

Not a mod and do enjoy this discussion but maybe we should try and keep this to Mr. Alexander and change over to calabrese's thread.

 

[jerboski]

How do you know he can do that? Grace or Moore could easily be better at it and we don't know. Calabrese plays off of his emotions with is great at times but it doesn't give me confidence that he can be the leader of a D.

I dont know for sure he can do that but I do know he is a starter for the number 2 ranked defense in the country right now and that should mean something. My point is Diaco is not going to allow two of his startes to leave for incoming freshman, who look great with their star ratings but we have no clue how they will actually do and how far away they are from being able to contribute. I am hopeful just like you guys that Grace and Moore become studs but the truth is they rarely play right now and there is a reason for that because the coaching staff is more comfortable and confident with Carlo and Fox that they give us the best chance to win. Sorry to derail the thread and not being argumentive just expressing a view

 

[jerboski]

That's awesome man, some heavy praise from an otherwise reserved guy.

Thats a great article and I hope he can come in and do all those things but right now Carlo is starting for the 2nd ranked defense in the nation so that should say something about the coaching staffs view point of him.

 

[Emcee77]

After getting Cole Luke, we are moving on from Mack's recruitment. Per BGI

 

[peoriairish]

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I think(no inside info) the class is pretty much set just waiting for recruits to announce publicly.

 

[GBdomer]

No disrespect to Jason sapp but if Mack called up Alford and said I want in they wouldn't say no

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

No disrespect to Jason sapp but if Mack called up Alford and said I want in they wouldn't say no

+1


But it is not happening.

 

[NDdomer2]

No disrespect to Jason sapp but if Mack called up Alford and said I want in they wouldn't say no

I tend to agree but I am wondering if the issue is more not wanting to deal with the on again off again. If he called today and committed would you really buy it until signing day?

 

[Luckylucci]

I would agree that he's a must take(difference maker). I think more than not taking him we just aren't putting significant resources and time into recruiting him anymore.

 

[Emcee77]

No disrespect to Jason sapp but if Mack called up Alford and said I want in they wouldn't say no

I don't doubt that at all. Just to be clear, Sapp didn't say otherwise. He just said that we aren't recruiting Mack any more because we would rather get a safety/CB combo like Redfield or Moore. I took that to mean that we aren't going to go out of our way for him like we did with Brian Poole or Rios leading up to signing day last year. I don't think it means that we wouldn't take him.

+1


But it is not happening.

Well, yeah.

Interesting note from a while back: Sapp ascribed Mack's bizarre behavior to the fact that he has no parental oversight. Apparently his parents are Haitian and don't get any of this stuff at all, so they just stay out of it.

 

[ShakeDown]

No disrespect to Jason sapp but if Mack called up Alford and said I want in they wouldn't say no

+1


But it is not happening.

I wonder where he ends up though? Skake-ups in Clemson's class make me wonder.

 

[GBdomer]

That kid could find his way to Wyoming and I wouldn't even ask how.

 

[ShakeDown]

That kid could find his way to Wyoming and I wouldn't even ask how.

Lol Colorado would be set for at least 2 years.

 

[peoriairish]

I wonder where he ends up though? Skake-ups in Clemson's class make me wonder.

O$U

 

[Walter White]

Miami maybe.