Breaking down ND/OU

[Irish#1]

My apologies. I was trying to interject some objectivity and intelligent analysis to this thread. Please...carry on.

It's been pointed out more than once that the ND front seven have three legitimate NFL caliber players surrounded by a pretty talented group. Say what you want to about the media and talking heads, but when it comes to the best defenses in the country everything I have heard from them is always about Bama and ND, then LSU and Florida. No one mentions K-State.

K-State may have a good defense, but I'm convinced ND's defense is much better. I may be proven wrong come Saturday, but I'm wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I personally hope the game never happens, and this online slug-fest continues until the end of the world 12/21/2012.

For example: is Riddick's girlfriend's rack better than Landry's mom's a$$? I don't know...Could go either way. Perk versus girth. That's why you play the games.

 

[GoldenBoy3]

I recently watched watched a chunk of the OU/KSU game and I agree I do think our defense is better than theres. But watching it Landry "Lawn Chair" Jones is terrible with pressure. And sometimes it takes a little longer than we hope, but every single game we have played the QB gets rushed. But as Wooly has said many times TOP and our rushing offense/defense is going to be the most crucial thing heading into Saturday. If they get 10 possesions theyll be lucky to score on close to half of those, and even that is highly unlikely. So even if they score on 4 of their 10 possesions your realistically looking at 20 points. And again thats almost a worst case scenario

 

[koonja]

One intangible that we have going for us is that we've played a tough schedule so far which has resulted in many close games. We've obviously won those games and should have a ton of confidence if it's close in the 4th quarter. Oklahoma has had one close game, and they lost that at home. If it's a 3/7-point game in the 4th, our guys will not be rattled.

 

[HoosierSooner]

Well, I'm certainly not going to belabor the point. I have already conceded the point that your d line is better. (Hell, i'm the one that brought it up in my original post) I just don't think the disparity between K STATE's D and ND's D is as great as you all say. I think you're collective regard for K STATE is far too small. But maybe that's because I've seen more of K STATE. It's certainly possible that Landry will be rattled into throwing up all over himself the way he did in that game. That wasn't the first game he has done that, it just happens to be the most prominent and spectacular example. However, I've seen some old swagger coming back to this team in the past three weeks that I haven't seen in a couple of years. I think they are markedly improving each week and might just be more to handle than you think. It does suck though that we don't have the NFL prospects on the line (either side) we've had in the past. I'm putting a fair amount of faith in Mike Stoops that he'll be able to come up with something effective.

 

[OUMallen]

I recently watched watched a chunk of the OU/KSU game and I agree I do think our defense is better than theres. But watching it Landry "Lawn Chair" Jones is terrible with pressure. And sometimes it takes a little longer than we hope, but every single game we have played the QB gets rushed. But as Wooly has said many times TOP and our rushing offense/defense is going to be the most crucial thing heading into Saturday. If they get 10 possesions theyll be lucky to score on close to half of those, and even that is highly unlikely. So even if they score on 4 of their 10 possesions your realistically looking at 20 points. And again thats almost a worst case scenario

If LJ goes into a shell, you'll notice it. You're FEEL it. It's just like...when you know a relationship is going down the tubes. You kind of halfway hold on, thinking perhaps she'll come around and you can find that magic again, or maybe LJ will get this next first down. But in your heart of hearts, you know a breakup/interception is coming. It's palpable. Except from your perspective, it'll be like a reaaaaally long putt start to snake back and forth and you know it's going to somehow go in even when it's still 15 ft out.

LJ is also fun when we're killing folks. The Big Red Machine can be demolishing a team, and then he'll throw a ball directly at a defensive back. Usually they drop it, but it's enough to make you roll your eyes.

Being a Sooner fan with LJ at the helm is nothing if not...well, exciting.

 

[TheSunIsRising]

More of that legendary ND hospitality and class.

They were talking about offensive players both sides didn't know about. So I posted football videos of Millard. Because, you know, football is fun to watch and we're all trying to learn something here.

This is going to be a LOT easier if we don't have to explain things to you. Keep up.

You're questioning the class you are being shown on IE???

You obviously have spent so much time over here that you haven't seen the OU boards and their 'wonderful' sense of humor on the topics of:

-Catholic Priests
-A video assistant who tragically passed away
-Jerry Sandusky

Granted the offensive posts were eventually removed/edited (a day later - your mods obviously don't have as much time on the internet as the regular posters), but not one of your posters called foul on these posts being overboard. If you generally look around here, you will see people being called out for stuff that really is offensive. Your buddy olevet, who started one of the threads, has come over to explain it was all in good humor - so we don't need to worry about it.

I suggest that you not generalize the responses you get here to the overall fan base; we've already heard that we can't let a few incidents or individuals distort the general welcoming nature of OU fans.

You and some others have been fair/objective about the discussions, but don't pretend that you are getting a ****** ride here, but ND is treated with respect across the board by your own fans.

 

[HoosierSooner]

If LJ goes into a shell, you'll notice it. You're FEEL it. It's just like...when you know a relationship is going down the tubes. You kind of halfway hold on, thinking perhaps she'll come around and you can find that magic again, or maybe LJ will get this next first down. But in your heart of hearts, you know a breakup/interception is coming. It's palpable.

LJ is also fun when we're killing folks. The Big Red Machine can be demolishing a team, and then he'll throw a ball directly at a defensive back. Usually they drop it, but it's enough to make you roll your eyes.

Being a Sooner fan with LJ at the helm is nothing if not...well, exciting.

Well said sir. Well said.

 

[OUMallen]

Well, I'm certainly not going to belabor the point. I have already conceded the point that your d line is better. (Hell, i'm the one that brought it up in my original post) I just don't think the disparity between K STATE's D and ND's D is as great as you all say. I think you're collective regard for K STATE is far too small. But maybe that's because I've seen more of K STATE. It's certainly possible that Landry will be rattled into throwing up all over himself the way he did in that game. That wasn't the first game he has done that, it just happens to be the most prominent and spectacular example. However, I've seen some old swagger coming back to this team in the past three weeks that I haven't seen in a couple of years. I think they are markedly improving each week and might just be more to handle than you think. It does suck though that we don't have the NFL prospects on the line (either side) we've had in the past. I'm putting a fair amount of faith in Mike Stoops that he'll be able to come up with something effective.

Dude, unless we prove otherwise, ND DEF >>> KSU DEF.

 

[HoosierSooner]

Dude, unless we prove otherwise, ND DEF >>> KSU DEF.

Yes, not arguing that really. I have been taking issue with the LEVEL of disparity between the two. There were quite a few posts in the earlier parts of this thread that would give the impression that ND is the Baltimore Ravens and that K STATE is a Juco team. That seems to have toned down a bit in the last day or so. At least a couple have posted they are watching the KSU/OU game. I give props for that.

 

[TheSunIsRising]

Well, I'm certainly not going to belabor the point. I have already conceded the point that your d line is better. (Hell, i'm the one that brought it up in my original post) I just don't think the disparity between K STATE's D and ND's D is as great as you all say. I think you're collective regard for K STATE is far too small. But maybe that's because I've seen more of K STATE. It's certainly possible that Landry will be rattled into throwing up all over himself the way he did in that game. That wasn't the first game he has done that, it just happens to be the most prominent and spectacular example. However, I've seen some old swagger coming back to this team in the past three weeks that I haven't seen in a couple of years. I think they are markedly improving each week and might just be more to handle than you think. It does suck though that we don't have the NFL prospects on the line (either side) we've had in the past. I'm putting a fair amount of faith in Mike Stoops that he'll be able to come up with something effective.

Obviously we're hoping for the Landry Jones who has thrown 44 picks in his career, while you guys want the one who has thrown over 100 TDs. In all honesty, I would have liked this game a little later in the season, give our DB's a chance to grow a bit more. Then again, if nothing else it will let us know where we stand in the secondary with some time to prepare for USC (obviously a bigger rivalry game for us). Other than USC in game 12, no team will challenge us in the air as much as OU. Miami was hyped coming in, but nothing like OU or USC in terms of passing offense.

As others have said, if we can get our front 3, with help from a LB or two, closing the pocket quickly, I really like ND's chances. If your OL holds up and gives Jones time to survey the field, this game will be very tough. I do like the fact that our red-zone defense is extremely stout, so I am even okay with some big passing plays as long as we don't let you score on them; we then can make you try to score inside the smaller space - which ND defends much better.

 

[NDdomer2]

My apologies. I was trying to interject some objectivity and intelligent analysis to this thread. Please...carry on.

If you are trying to bring intelligent analysis to a thread please do so without stating opinion "ND dline is a little better than Kstates" as fact. The great world of sports is full of statistics to support or negate opinion and allow objectivity and intelligent analysis.

For instance:

K State Rushing Defense is ranked 11th. With 222 attempts against for 695 yards (3.13 average) allowing 5 touchdowns and 99.29 yards per game.

ND Rushing Defense is ranked 15th. With 219 attempts against for 747 yards (3.41 average) allowing 0 touchdowns and 106.71 yards per game.

But since not all things are created equal we will look at each teams opponents Rushing Offense Rank.

K State: Missouri St- not even a FBS school but if it were would be 100 Miami-92 North Texas-44 OU-34 Kansas-49 Iowa St-86 West Virginia-78 for an average Opponent Rushing Rank of 69.

ND: Navy-13 scUM-18 Stanford-59 BYU-65 PU-69 MSU-84 Miami-92 for an average Opponent Rushing Rank of 57.14

K-State has a better ranked rushing defense than ND but has played an inferior schedule and rushing attack TO DATE.

Now we will examine the d line ability to make plays behind the LOS with sacks, opponents sacks allowed (found out this is not an official state kept by the NCAA), tfl, and tfl allowed.

K State Sacks: Tied for 31st with 18 sacks for a total loss of 119 yards (2.57 average)
ND sacks: Tied for 21st with 19 sacks for a total loss of 130 (2.71 average)

K State Opponent Sacks Allowed: Missouri State-10 Miami-13 North Texas-3 OU-10 Kansas -19 Iowa State-10 West Virginia-12 Average opponent has allowed 11 sacks for loss of 83.571 yards and an average loss of 7.59 yards

ND Opoonent Sacks Allowed: Navy-15 PU-15 MSU-11 UM-5 Miami-13 Stanford-7 BYU-22 Average Opponent has allowed 12.57 sacks for loss of 88.43 yards and an average loss of 7.03 yards.

K State TFL: Tied for 42nd with 44 combined tfl, total loss of yardage 172 yards and an average tackle for loss per game of 6.29.
ND: 101st with 33 combined tfl, total loss of yardage 164 yards and an average tackle for loss per game of 4.71

K State Opponent TFL Allowed Averages: 40.28 combined tfl, with a loss average per of 5.65 yards.
ND Opponent TFL Allowed Averages: 36.85 combined tfl, with a loss average per of 4.96 yards

K State does have 11 more combined tfl than ND but ND's opponents average 5 tfl's less. K State does average more loss per tfl than their opponents average but takes a significant dip on loss per sack compared to their opponents average. Sacks were generally even, though ND's opponents do significantly allow fewer sacks than K States opponents.

I would say ND's dline is better than K States as you mentioned. By how much is hard to say and depends on what you want out of your dline.

 

[HoosierSooner]

Interesting that you finished all those stats and then concluded the way you did:

"I would say ND's dline is better than K States as you mentioned. By how much is hard to say and depends on what you want out of your dline."

That was my point exactly. But we shall see. We shall see.

 

[NDdomer2]

Interesting that you finished all those stats and then concluded the way you did:

"I would say ND's dline is better than K States as you mentioned. By how much is hard to say and depends on what you want out of your dline."

That was my point exactly. But we shall see. We shall see.

The conclusion is based of fact. Bringing intelligent analysis to the conversation. What you said you were doing but were not. The conclusions can be the same but at least I have shown why.

 

[NickZepp]

K-State passed the ball effectively against OU. Something like 160 yards on just 13 completions.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[goldandblue]

Dude, unless we prove otherwise, ND DEF >>> KSU DEF.

I would say so....

Total Defensive Rank
ND 6
KS 23

Red Zone Defense
ND 2
KS 16

Rushing Defense
KS 11
ND 15

Passing Defense
ND 14
KS 62

Sacks
ND 21
KS 31

By the way... To hell with statistics! Let's play the game already!! Go Irish beat the Sooners. You Sooner guys have been fun though.

 

[OUMallen]

K-State passed the ball effectively against OU. Something like 160 yards on just 13 completions.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[HoosierSooner]

The conclusion is based of fact. Bringing intelligent analysis to the conversation. What you said you were doing but were not. The conclusions can be the same but at least I have shown why.

Excellent! Then we are in agreement that most of your posters are overestimating your d line in relationship to our toughest opponent to date. Thank you for the lucid, concise, reinforcement.

 

[goldandblue]

Our D-line is a beast. You will find out soon enough..

 

[NDdomer2]

Excellent! Then we are in agreement that most of your posters are overestimating your d line in relationship to our toughest opponent to date. Thank you for the lucid, concise, reinforcement.

Your objective on this site is becoming more clear.

 

[woolybug25]

I vote to ban all Sooners except for OUMullen.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I vote to ban all Sooners except for OUMullen.

Andrew Jackson should banish them to one uninhabited thread

 

[PraetorianND]

Your objective on this site is becoming more clear.

Let's just all get down on our knees and worship OU because it is better than ND in every way. Why is College Gameday even at this game? It's going to be a huge blowout anyway.

All of these OU fans are right and I'm so happy they stopped by to let us know how inferior we are. If not for them we may have thought we had a chance to beat them on Saturday. It would have been been terrible to go through the rest of the week thinking that our team was good enough to share the same field as OU.

 

[HoosierSooner]

I vote to ban all Sooners except for OUMullen.

I feel ya. If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em. It's just a difference of opinon dude. I think you guys have a very talented D Line. Certainly one of the best ones in the country. I just think you're underestimating OU's schedule/opponents to date and putting a little too much faith in one element of your team. But i'm not surprised you would suggest the ban, having read your posts.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I feel ya. If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em...But i'm not surprised you would suggest the ban, having read your posts.

I think he was being facetious.

 

[IrishLion]

Well, I'm certainly not going to belabor the point. I have already conceded the point that your d line is better. (Hell, i'm the one that brought it up in my original post) I just don't think the disparity between K STATE's D and ND's D is as great as you all say. I think you're collective regard for K STATE is far too small. But maybe that's because I've seen more of K STATE. It's certainly possible that Landry will be rattled into throwing up all over himself the way he did in that game. That wasn't the first game he has done that, it just happens to be the most prominent and spectacular example. However, I've seen some old swagger coming back to this team in the past three weeks that I haven't seen in a couple of years. I think they are markedly improving each week and might just be more to handle than you think. It does suck though that we don't have the NFL prospects on the line (either side) we've had in the past. I'm putting a fair amount of faith in Mike Stoops that he'll be able to come up with something effective.

So we are not holding KState in high enough regard, and yet you follow that with a built-in excuse of Landry Jones blowing the game. So do you think KState won the game, or OU lost it? You can't have it both ways.

 

[BGIF]

I don't know how many DLines can dance on the head of a pin but I sure you both do and will argue it ad nauseum.

Football Outsiders Ranks the 124 Div 1 Teams Weekly on Offense and Defense. They eliminate useless half ending drives (a couple of knees do not mean the other side has a stalwart DLine) they also eliminate garbage time. The methodology is described at their site:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2012 OVERALL COLLEGE FOOTBALL RATINGS

According to their numbers for games through 10/20/12, OU is the higher ranked of the two overall, OU #2, ND #6, while ND has a slight edge in Offense (surprises me), #3 v #5, OU has the higher ranked D, #2 v #10, and OU gets a BIG edge in Special Teams, #17 v #90 as in NINETY). When you look at their numbers keep in mind they only credit OU with 6 games to date as they don't evaluate Div 1 aa opponents like FAMU. Sagarin lists as the 193 team in Div 1 + Div 1 aa.

F/+ Rk	Team	Record	F/+	Prev	Change	Off F/+	Rk	Def F/+	Rk	ST F/+	Rk	S&P+	Rk	FEI	Rk
1	ALA	7-0	54.40%	1	0	10.20%	24	40.20%	1	4.10%	14	338	1	0.271	3
2	OU	5-1	45.60%	2	0	16.60%	5	25.60%	2	3.40%	17	272.2	3	0.281	2
3	ORE	6-0	41.20%	3	0	13.60%	10	25.30%	3	2.30%	25	290.3	2	0.266	4
4	UF	7-0	38.20%	7	3	11.60%	17	19.30%	8	7.40%	1	263.6	4	0.259	5
5	KSU	6-0	35.80%	4	-1	17.70%	4	12.90%	16	5.20%	9	235.5	17	0.288	1
6	ND	7-0	34.00%	6	0	18.40%	3	17.60%	10	-1.90%	90	254.7	5	0.247	6

 

[irishfanjho15]

No.
Our 6'2" fullback is better than your 6'6" All-American TE.

^This is dumb and dumber.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm getting a headache!

 

[PraetorianND]

Really? Does that normally work? Play the victim card if you want. I've just stated my opinion. I've also stated, several times, that I may be wrong. Landry and the offense may puke it up. We will see.

The italics indicate sarcasm.

I'm tired of reading your drivel.