Concerns About the Stanford Game?

[Cogs]

I don't want to throw the jinx on us, but I don't see this game being close....

ND 35
Stanford 10

I would give you rep points if I knew how. I said 28-3.

 

[NDinFL]

I would give you rep points if I knew how. I said 28-3.

Great minds, my friend, great minds

I think the Irish are up 35-3 going into the 4th and Stanford's offense puts a garbage time touchdown on ND's 2nd team D

 

[Cogs]

Great minds, my friend, great minds

I think the Irish are up 35-3 going into the 4th and Stanford's offense puts a garbage time touchdown on ND's 2nd team D

Yup, great minds! Stanford is overrated in my book. They're offense has looked pretty bad this whole year, Nunes is a turnover machine, and Stanford's Defense isn't as good as everyone says. 48 points to Arizona? Oregon shut them out!

 

[irishtrain]

One of the things that makes any forum great is healthy debate, with people bringing up different points of view. Amid the euphoria of this great Notre Dame win/season, I'm reading almost all positive comments on different ND boards about our team (I can't begin to tell you how awesome it is to work somewhere where there are tons of hardcore ND fans, especially after an ***-kicking like Saturday night).

But what about the concerns? To avoid one big circle jerk about how great ND is (and really, how fun is this???), does anybody have any concerns about the team, but more specifically, the Stanford game? The cynic in me definitely has some concerns, so I'll go first:

1. College Gameday is here. I keep reading and hearing about what a circus it is. I'm concerned about our boys' ability to stay focused at the task at hand. These are very young men, with healthy egos. So far so good, but with every big win the hype machine gets bigger, with more and more people telling them how great they are. BK gotta keep 'em focused.

(And I'll counter your counterargument with that it's easier said than done. EVERY coach tries to keep their teams focused, and then North Carolina State happens, or a Georgia/South Carolina game happens. It's tough!)

2. The running game and the offense as a whole. Our only good games were against really bad defenses. Can Everett keep his confidence riding high against a really good front 7? Can CW maintain his stellar play from last week (in other words, will they give him the damn ball?) And can the o-line dominate or at least nuetralize a good d-line? That concerns me.

3. Man, I was shocked how well Miami did against our front 3/4 for it seemed like most of the first half. It didn't seem like we could even sniff the Miami QB. But I haven't watched the game again yet, so I don't know. Am I wrong? Is it a concern?

We gave up 3 friggin points (shoulda been 13, fg missed and 2 dropped TDs on the opening drive, but still), so I'm thinking it shouldn't be a concern.

4. Punting. C'mon Turk!!!! We're not always going to play lights out (nobody does), and we'll need field position with our stifling defense.

5. Golson and fumbling. He had major fumbling issues per almost everyone that was at practice last year, and he had a hard time with the snaps in the B&G game. And this year, not playing in every quarter of the 5 games, he has at least 2 if not 3 fumbles (only one lost). Every time he scrambles, I get scared cause he holds the ball so far from his body at times. Tuck it young Everett!

Like I said, wonderful season so far. I can't even believe how much fun I'm having watching these guys play. But that doesn't mean we can't talk about all that ails the team, because no team is perfect (well, friggin Bama looks almost perfect). Personally, although many have us undefeated at the end of the year (at least from what I've seen on Irish boards today, I still have us losing 2 games but making a BCS game. Oklahoma and USC on the road. Hope to God that I'm wrong, and USC is looking really vulnerable, but both those teams pass the ball really well and they do scare me.

What say you guys? (And again, if I'm off say so!!!)

Lets keep my illustrious record in tact at 0-6. Stanford will show just where this team is. I think Stanford wins and of course hope I look like a jack@#$ next week again. Man you gotta love this bunch of Irishmen-they keep getting better- and they have been bringing it. No Doubt Stanford will have to convinced Notre Dame is for real. They want to play bully Ball so buckle up. They have speed on the outside but the real weapons are the tight ends and run game. Manti will be busy..........

 

[Cogs]

Lets keep my illustrious record in tact at 0-6. Stanford will show just where this team is. I think Stanford wins and of course hope I look like a jack@#$ next week again. Man you gotta love this bunch of Irishmen-they keep getting better- and they have been bringing it. No Doubt Stanford will have to convinced Notre Dame is for real. They want to play bully Ball so buckle up. They have speed on the outside but the real weapons are the tight ends and run game. Manti will be busy..........

You must be the happiest man on Earth right now. Didn't you say a 5-7 or 6-6 pre season prediction?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Not concerned. Stanford, like virtually every team we play, could beat us if we come out flat. That said, Vegas didn't set the line at ND -9 for nothing. The following stats come from Bill Connelly's S&P model, which doesn't include data from last week's games yet.

Stanford Offense:
Overall- 67
Rushing- 63
Passing- 40
Standard Downs- 74
Passing Downs- 46

Notre Dame Defense:
Overall- 8
Rushing- 14
Passing- 12
Standard Downs- 7
Passing Downs- 13

Notre Dame Offense:
Overall- 28
Rushing- 15
Passing- 35
Standard Downs- 18
Passing Downs- 14

Stanford Defense:
Overall- 5
Rushing- 21
Passing- 5
Standard Downs- 10
Passing Downs- 12

Stanford runs a traditional pro-style offense. Take away their ground game, and they're going to struggle. I have little doubt we'll able to do that. I also have little doubt that our DL will get to Nunes; he's not nearly as mobile as some of the QBs we've faced thus far.

As for our offense, we should be able to run the ball on them better than many here seem to be expecting. Other run defenses we've faced this year already: MSU (3rd) and Michigan (16th). With the breakout performance Wood and our OL had against Miami, and the long-awaited inclusion of Zone Read plays by Golson, we should be able to stay ahead of the chains.

I predict another smothering defensive effort. We cruise into the half up 20-6, and run it down their throats for most of the 2nd half like we did against Miami. Here's hoping we keep the No TDs streak alive.

 

[Irish YJ]

Whiskey I like.

 

[NDHoosier101]

Notre Dame has kept opponents on average 19.7 points under their season average and scores 28.8 points a game. Stanford scores 31.6 points a game. 31.6-19.7=11.9

That means the final score will be:
Notre Dame- 28.8
Stanford- 11.9

That's math. You can't argue with math, so stop trying.

 

[ndfi78]

Turk and Kyle Brenza (not sure how to spell his last name) concern me. Turk was a rockstar in the Purdue game, one of the reasons we were able to pull that game out. But he's back to ole' 30 yard punt Turk we've all gotten used to the past couple seasons, I don't know what's up with that. Also Brenza has been great on kickoffs since he has been back, but he wasn't getting his kicks into the endzone against Miami and that was scaring me. With a tough defense we have to make teams earn their points, instead of letting them return a kickoff. Even though our kickoff coverage has been good enough so far, I still hold my breath everytime he doesn't at least kick it a yard or two deep into the endzone.

Brindza was having issues with footing, it was all over twitter. The grounds crew was even out spreading sand to improve the footing.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Originally Posted by NDinL.A.

5. Golson and fumbling. He had major fumbling issues per almost everyone that was at practice last year, and he had a hard time with the snaps in the B&G game. And this year, not playing in every quarter of the 5 games, he has at least 2 if not 3 fumbles (only one lost). Every time he scrambles, I get scared cause he holds the ball so far from his body at times. Tuck it young Everett!

Originally Posted by NDinL.A. View Post
Hate to say it, but I have absolutely no idea why you brought that up, considering it was LAST YEAR...

Hmmm.....

Nice try chief. If you read just a wee bit closer, I also pointed out examples from THIS YEAR. On your original post, you brought up last year's team in order to throw a wet blanket over the win immediately following the game. And it was irrelevant to this year's team. Golson's fumbles in practice last year and the B&G game this year and the fumbles in the games this year (he had one that luckily rolled out of bounds against Miami) are all pertinent to this year's team. But hopefully, he figures it out and it doesn't come back to bite him at the wrong time (i.e. the Purdue game).

Other than that post though, great posts all around on this thread; great discussion!

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Keith's "The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" article from Miami seems relevant to this thread.

The good, the bad, the ugly: Notre Dame vs. Miami | Inside the Irish

My main concerns:

1) Our rushing offense vs Stanford's rushing defense. ND seems to only break the long runs against weak defenses. Maybe the stats don't back up what I'm saying, but I've felt like we've had trouble moving the ball w/ consistency against Purdue, MSU, and UM. Stanford will be even tougher.

2) Our disconnect and lack of targets to Eifert, Brown, Daniels. When the run game is clicking, this point is moot. But when we're struggling to run, it's paramount to be able to move the ball in the air to get the defense to back off a little. I'm not necessarily talking about the deep ball either. It seems we're close, but personally I'd like to see us spread Stanford out this week. BK's/Martin's offensive game plan is very critical this week, imo.

3) Our safeties getting beat deep. It's no surprise Miami has speed and took a shot at our weak secondary. When it was Farley, I chalked it up to inexperience. But when it was Motta, it bothered me. That can't continue to happen. (Btw, did I miss something or did Shumate not play against Miami? That kid is a ball hawk, and regardless of being a true freshman, he's a player. I feel comfortable with him on the field and hope to see him more often)

4) Last but not least, I'm STILL waiting to see what Davonte Neal can do for us. I feel like we're wasting a year on him just sitting back there doing what Goodman did last year. For the life of me, I can't understand why we can't get some decent blocking up front to give this kid a chance to make a play. If he's not going to get into the offense, why waste him back there on fair catches? I don't get it. Either get your playmakers more involved, or save them. (That goes for GAIII too. He needs more touches. Kid is unreal)

 

[WaveDomer]

4) Last but not least, I'm STILL waiting to see what Davonte Neal can do for us. I feel like we're wasting a year on him just sitting back there doing what Goodman did last year. For the life of me, I can't understand why we can't get some decent blocking up front to give this kid a chance to make a play. If he's not going to get into the offense, why waste him back there on fair catches? I don't get it. Either get your playmakers more involved, or save them. (That goes for GAIII too. He needs more touches. Kid is unreal)

In regards to Neal, I think BK is doing it okay. Remember GAIII was a special teams guy last year and now has moved into playing time on offense. There's a lot to it and maybe Neal isn't ready for everything else that goes on between the lines. There is obviously something purposeful about ND's punt return game. It's been the same for what? 2 and a half years now? I think BK is cool protecting against the fake and just getting possession. If a kick outkicks coverage and Neal can get room, that's great, but it looks like he just wants possession. IMHO.

As for GAIII, well he carried 10 times against Miami. Wood carried, what? 18 or 20? Wood is the workhorse. Riddick can be a workhorse too and get tough yards. I can't complain about GAIII not getting enough touches when he gets double digits. It's the workhorses and O Line that wear down the D so that he can break one.

 

[koonja]

My concerns about Stanford:

1) They're very balanced. Statistically speaking, you could say Purdue is more balanced (run/pass), but Stanford is better, imo.

2) They've shown they can play in and win close games. See, Arizona, USC, and San Jose State. If we get up, let's put the foot on their throat and make them a passing team.

3) Tackling their big WR/TE in space. Our safeties can tackle, not worried about them. But Russell and Jackson better be ready to take down some big bodies or there's going to be a lot of YAC. Not that they haven't tackled well to this point, but Stanford will be dangerous in this regard.

4) Golson starting slow and BK pulling him for Rees. This is the type of front 7 that will bring us the Rees we all know. Really hope Kelly keeps faith in Golson.

Side note A) This game is coming at a perfect timing. It will be our toughest test, imo, but it's not like it's USC/Oklahoma. We can/should beat these guys. Before MSU/UM, we said 'we'll know how good we are after these games'. Well they didn't pan out to be very good, but Stanford is. Great time for a solid, solid test.

Side note B) This Stanford defense reminds me of ours during the Weis years. They are a sound group, but speed scares them to death. If we can get Neal/Brown on the field, along with Golson's mobility and our speed at RB, they should be very worried. I'd be surprised if we didn't have a couple 35+ yard plays.

Side note C) any injury updates on Stanford? Their corner (#6), and RB (#33) were both out.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

In regards to Neal, I think BK is doing it okay. Remember GAIII was a special teams guy last year and now has moved into playing time on offense. There's a lot to it and maybe Neal isn't ready for everything else that goes on between the lines. There is obviously something purposeful about ND's punt return game. It's been the same for what? 2 and a half years now? I think BK is cool protecting against the fake and just getting possession. If a kick outkicks coverage and Neal can get room, that's great, but it looks like he just wants possession. IMHO.

As for GAIII, well he carried 10 times against Miami. Wood carried, what? 18 or 20? Wood is the workhorse. Riddick can be a workhorse too and get tough yards. I can't complain about GAIII not getting enough touches when he gets double digits. It's the workhorses and O Line that wear down the D so that he can break one.

You made my point regarding Neal. If BK just wants to ensure possession, why not put a guy back there who isn't a true fresh? Why waste a year on Neal if he's not involved in the offense yet and he's just fair catching balls on PR? GAIII was different last year in that kick return and punt return are not the same animal.

Riddick hasn't shown much with his carries. George does....to the tune of 9.3 ypc versus Riddick's 3.9 ypc. They have almost the same total yardage this season and Riddick has almost 40 more carries, 40!. I realize the staff can do more with Riddick on the field. He has better hands and can run that hybrid position well. But Riddick isn't showing me much to warrant his amount of carries per game.

 

[koonja]

You're right about Theo's production on rushes, but Theo is the team's leading receiver. He's underrated as a RB, especially by those who think "Cierre's a way better RB and it isn't close". Cierre is better, but it is close. Theo has 17 catches to Cierre's 2. And Theo's quietly been pass blocking well. I'm a little bias towards Theo because I think that type of versatility is very underrated, but I think his blocking and what he brings to the receiving game is a big part of this offense's success.

 

[ND NYC]

Kelly didnt do much wrong against SC. He put the team positions to win, but didnt execute. I'm sure he didn't draw the plays in the dirt during the huddle and cross his fingers that his team would execute. They probably ran those plays 700 times correctly, but just **** the bed during the game.

I've have been very impressed with Kelly's playcalling and coaching this season. He looks in the zone on the sidelines during the game.

tommy rees running the option...3 qbs in one drive, and 2 of them switched 2 times in the red the zone, but i digress.

this stanford team will mistake free, disciplined and tough. 3 qualities all of our opponenets so far have lacked on d.

it all comes down to: how will our offense play. its bks baby.

go irish

 

[BleedBlueGold]

You're right about Theo's production on rushes, but Theo is the team's leading receiver. He's underrated as a RB, especially by those who think "Cierre's a way better RB and it isn't close". Cierre is better, but it is close. Theo has 17 catches to Cierre's 2. And Theo's quietly been pass blocking well when in there. Maybe I'm bias towards Theo because he runs hard and IMO, is one of the unsung hero's of the offense (if you will), but I think his blocking and what he brings to the receiving game is a big part of this offense's success.

I understand Theo brings the total package with the hybrid role, but if a run play gets called, Wood and George need to be the ones running. It just seems to me that BK is handicapping this offense by not getting a true playmaker involved more often. Every time GA is in the game, he's capable of breaking one. People have said that about Theo for the last four years and we're still waiting. Meanwhile GA is gouging defenses with his limited opportunities. I get the staff wants a more hybrid RB who can catch passes and GA has brick hands...but c'mon. You have to make some exceptions if you have a guy who's performed this well time and time again.

 

[WaveDomer]

You made my point regarding Neal. If BK just wants to ensure possession, why not put a guy back there who isn't a true fresh? Why waste a year on Neal if he's not involved in the offense yet and he's just fair catching balls on PR? GAIII was different last year in that kick return and punt return are not the same animal.

Riddick hasn't shown much with his carries. George does....to the tune of 9.3 ypc versus Riddick's 3.9 ypc. They have almost the same total yardage this season and Riddick has almost 40 more carries, 40!. I realize the staff can do more with Riddick on the field. He has better hands and can run that hybrid position well. But Riddick isn't showing me much to warrant his amount of carries per game.

I don't think BK is worrying about saving years etc. If you show you can play, you play. So Neal is getting his feet wet in competition, which is fine with me. I would also bet that he is used more in the second half of the season. Agreed that kickoff return is different than punt return, but I think BK looks at it positively to get guys involved, regardless of year. He's done that with other players as well.

Riddick is a different back than GAIII. Does he have the same breakaway speed? Of course not, nobody on the field does. But could GAIII grind out 9 needed yards to put the game away like Riddick has done this year? Can he block like Riddick? GAIII is getting his carries. There are 3 legitimate but different backs and Kelly is using all of them.

 

[koonja]

I understand Theo brings the total package with the hybrid role, but if a run play gets called, Wood and George need to be the ones running. It just seems to me that BK is handicapping this offense by not getting a true playmaker involved more often. Every time GA is in the game, he's capable of breaking one. People have said that about Theo for the last four years and we're still waiting. Meanwhile GA is gouging defenses with his limited opportunities. I get the staff wants a more hybrid RB who can catch passes and GA has brick hands...but c'mon. You have to make some exceptions if you have a guy who's performed this well time and time again.

If you do that, then the offensive plays become predictable. And Theo's good enough that he should still get carries (not as many as Cierre, I agree).

I'd like to see a fresh GA getting more carries late in the game when the defense is tired/vulnerable to taking a play off. If one player misses an assignment, we all know he can take it the distance.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

If you do that, then the offensive plays become predictable. And Theo's good enough that he should still get carries (not as many as Cierre, I agree).

I'd like to see a fresh GA getting more carries late in the game when the defense is tired/vulnerable to taking a play off. If one player misses an assignment, we all know he can take it the distance.

That's true. I can get on board with that.

 

[Old Man Mike]

A random thought: Stanford is REAL proud of its outside linebackers. BUT... the Niklas Streetsweeping Machine has arrived in South Bend. I am going to be watching to see if Niklas can block the OLB on his side. If he can, then I think Coach will call a lot of such plays, we will run effectively, and it will be game-over. If not, then we have to find another way --- which I still believe that we will [the Kelly playbook is large and full of difficulties for the defense].

On the issue of punt returns: I believe that the staff has picked a very good player as the returner. Although it is true that Kelly values the security of the ball above all things [appropriately], the difference between Neal and Johnny-Be-Good is that Neal can catch it just as well, Plus he has BIG confidence in his ability to Shake and Break. Davonte will escape jail several times before the year is out.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

A random thought: Stanford is REAL proud of its outside linebackers. BUT... the Niklas Streetsweeping Machine has arrived in South Bend. I am going to be watching to see if Niklas can block the OLB on his side. If he can, then I think Coach will call a lot of such plays, we will run effectively, and it will be game-over. If not, then we have to find another way --- which I still believe that we will [the Kelly playbook is large and full of difficulties for the defense].

On the issue of punt returns: I believe that the staff has picked a very good player as the returner. Although it is true that Kelly values the security of the ball above all things [appropriately], the difference between Neal and Johnny-Be-Good is that Neal can catch it just as well, Plus he has BIG confidence in his ability to Shake and Break. Davonte will escape jail several times before the year is out.

The one thing I've noticed watching Chase Thomas is his rip technique. He executes it successfully on all types of blockers while attacking from different angles on each play. If he attackes inside the tackle or guard he's either getting the sack or more frequently forcing the play to the edges.

From the edges he seems to be lethal in getting the advantage and forcing holds/disrupting the QB or bottling the RB. His agility needs to be met with brute force to the chest.. again and again and again.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

I would be worried if:

A) We were playing Stanford earlier in the season
B) We were playing them in Palo Alto.

I think you could take the best part of each team we have played so far and assemble this Stanford team. I don't really think they are better at any one position than any of the teams we have played so far. I do think they are more well rounded than any of the teams to this point in the season.

A big question mark for me is Eifert. Not him as a player, but getting him more touches. I know teams a keying on him, but the staff has to figure out how to get him in the position to catch more balls. Additionally, Eifert has to channel his inner-Kyle Rudolph and find the holes in the defense better.

With the running game showing signs of life, if Eifert can get more involved and put up some yardage, it is really going to open up the offensive options.

I have a small concern about our secondary, but I think Miami's first possession was a great learning experience for the corners especially. That unit continues to improve week after week. The no-touchdowns in three games should not only credited to the front seven. The secondary plays a part in that as well and I think this unit does not get a enough credit.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we are going to cruise. Stanford will bring it. We need to be sharp and intense. Limit the big plays by Stanford, take care of the football, and just play our game.

ND - 24
Stan - 13

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'd worry more about Matthias figuring it out than Keivaree or Bennett. My view of the two long drops is that they were more safety breakdowns than corner breakdowns. I didn't initially have any really positive feelings about how our corners would do, but I'm really starting to see the speed and the intuitions in these guys. AND the hustle and willingness to throw their bodies in there.

I'm almost of the opinion that we may even be "set" at corner for a few years. I think that their evolution [as fast as I think I'm seeing it] is stunning. Matthias will also be good once he figures how the flow goes from safety, but Zeke is still coaching on every play.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

I'd worry more about Matthias figuring it out than Keivaree or Bennett. My view of the two long drops is that they were more safety breakdowns than corner breakdowns. I didn't initially have any really positive feelings about how our corners would do, but I'm really starting to see the speed and the intuitions in these guys. AND the hustle and willingness to throw their bodies in there.

I'm almost of the opinion that we may even be "set" at corner for a few years. I think that their evolution [as fast as I think I'm seeing it] is stunning. Matthias will also be good once he figures how the flow goes from safety, but Zeke is still coaching on every play.

They might have been more safety breakdowns. I haven't watched the replay of the game yet. Matthias is progressing well too. Zeke is coaching him up every play, but the kid is going to be good.

 

[Bluto]

They might have been more safety breakdowns. I haven't watched the replay of the game yet. Matthias is progressing well too. Zeke is coaching him up every play, but the kid is going to be good.

Seems like they were. Both times it looked like the corner passed the player off to the safety to cover the guy running underneath. I'm thinking Shumate gets more playing time as the season progresses.

 

[IrishInFl]

I'm not worried one bit.

32-9 ND.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

Re: The dropped touchdowns

On the first one, it was quarters coverage. Dorcett came from the slot on Bennett Jackson's side, basically face up from Motta. The outside receiver ran an 18-yard dig route. Both Motta and Fairley were caught looking at Morris, since it was zone coverage. Motta did OK, but didn't turn his hips nearly fast enough (a common occurrence throughout Zeke's career).

Fairley had his hips turned and was moving into the right position, but then he hesitated and stopped back-pedaling to react to the shorter pattern that was coming (wide open) across his face. I believe this also affected the depth of Motta's drop. With a player like Dorcett, a split-second hesitation is going to get you roasted. So who's fault is it? I'd say 20% Motta and 80% Fairley. The pass ended up in Fairley's quarter of the field, but Motta didn't do a good job picking up the deep route and passing him on into the next zone, especially considering that Zeke is supposed to be quarterbacking the young secondary. Absolutely no blame can be put onto Bennett Jackson.

On the second one, it was purely poor technique by Motta. This one was Cover 2, with the safeties nearly 15 yards off the LOS at the snap. Miami had QUAD receivers to the right [wide] side of the field. Motta was lined up a step outside the hashes. Many of you would recognize this play as "cheese" from the NCAA video game series (four verticals with at least trips on one side). The outside receiver ran a crossing route, but Russell DOMINATED him at the LOS and covered him easily. Dorcett came from a trips bunch and went down the sideline. The other two receivers from the trips set ran verticals down the hash/middle of the field. The lone receiver on the short side of the formation also ran a vertical route.

The Irish defense had this covered. However, Motta didn't react well at all to the ball in the air. He sort of watched it fly over his head before reacting. If he had read the flight of the ball better, he could have easily broken the pass up or even intercepted it. Poor ball skills are to blame here: 100% on Motta.

If you want to watch the plays, go OutintheBend's "Notre Dame vs. Miami Online replay (condensed)" thread and watch the 1st Quarter video. The first play happens between 0:13 and 0:36, and the second is from 1:07 to 1:34.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

I am concerned because they still are a physically tough team and they can run the ball.

 

[BurningRiver]

I'm concerned simply because each week becomes more stressful (and more fun) than the last, and with that stress comes greater concern.