The Notre Dame Effect

[IrishLax]

Listening to Inside the Locker Room with Doc Walker, Brian Mitchell, and Scott Jackson today on ESPN 980 here in DC driving between job sites and a really interesting comment was made with regards to the Nats...

For those that don't follow the MLB leading (formerly?) Washington Nationals, we've just hit a 5 game skid after cementing a 7 game divisional lead and the best record in the majors. In discussing it, Doc Walker (UCLA -> Redskins) stated that the issue is that the Nationals... for the first time ever... have become the hunter instead of the hunted. He said it's really easy to be the hunter, and it's much harder than anyone realizes to be the hunted. He said all of these teams - Phillies, Marlins specifically - that are out of the race will get up to play the Nats down the stretch because they're the #1 team and that's all they have left to play for. That either consciously or subconsciously they will all circle that game and there will be no games from here on out where the Nats don't get the other team's 110%.

He then called this the "Notre Dame Effect" and said that no matter how good or bad Notre dame is... no matter if you're a rival or a first time team playing Notre Dame... that Notre Dame's opponent ALWAYS gets up for the game because either consciously or subconsciously they want to be able to say they beat Notre Dame. They want to slay the dragon. He said "doesn't matter if the entire ND team is hurt or out with the flu... their opponent is going to come out wanting to kill them if they can." He then said the Yankees are the only other team that has this effect on a year-to-year basis regardless of record... and that it has to be a serious concern for teams like the Nats who have never been there before... never had the proverbial target on their back... that they might not be able to deal with the pressure of being the top dog.

So my question to you all is twofold....
1. What other sports teams do you think have the "Notre Dame Effect"? I'd argue that the Heat/Lakers have it to a pretty strong degree. And so do USC and Alabama. In lacrosse, Johns Hopkins and Syracuse absolutely have this effect. Are there any teams in the NFL that have this or is there too much parity?
2. Do you think the grind of always taking everyone's best shot leads to more losses than if the team played in a vacuum? That is, do you think if you took the same ND players/coaches and had them playing for... I don't know... let's say Illinois that they would rack up more wins? Do you think the internal pressures of being "expected" to win hurt a team or help it?

Discuss.

 

[youngblood24]

New England Patriots.

 

[AvesEvo]

Team USA in basketball.

 

[Irishman77]

Dallas cowboys

 

[greyhammer90]

New England Patriots.

Disagree. There are too many big names in the NFL to get too uptight about one team. The only ones that it seems people get up for are the ones who have been doing really well recently. For that reason, sure the patriots right now. But in terms of overall prestige I don't think they're any better than the steelers, bears, 49ers, giants, jets etc....

I guess what I'm saying is... a team like ND or Alabama it doesn't matter if they're up or down they're going to get peoples best shot. I'd say the same for the Lakers. People don't really care to say that they beat the Patriots any more than any other NFL team... they really want to say that they beat Belichick and Brady.

Dallas Cowboys

If there is one team in the NFL, this is it.

 

[RubberSoul]

Yep, the Dallas Cowboys. NFL films even calls them the Notre Dame of the NFL.

 

[alohagoirish]

Let me make a comment on the whole concept of the Notre Dame effect , something we all know is there.

I've been around a long time and when ND was a football powerhouse , a perrenial top ten team---there was STILL the Notre dame effect but it worked differently. When we were a power the effect was INTIMIDATION, not lets put the old champ down and get that notch on our belt.

Many teams were beaten before the kickoff---the weak teams did not expect any upset and the pretty good teams often CHOKED!---

The analogy would be the old boxer---when julio ceasar chavez was the dominating force his opponents were often beaten before the bell. But when he was an old, weak shadow of himself everyone he faced got all charged up trying to put the big name on their victory list.

A powerhouse ND team , if we can ever field one , will reverse the affect of the effect and we will see INTIMIDATION from our opponent rather then the BULLY.

Lets hope we can all see that day arrive sooner rather then later.

 

[BurningRiver]

The Cleveland Browns

 

[CanadianIrishFan306]

Montreal Canadiens

 

[Irishnuke]

Notre Dame is the only team I believe has the Notre Dame effect. I don't think any team in baseball has it because of the huge number of games they play. AL teams play the Yankees at minimum 6 times per season and division rivals play them damn near 20 times. In the NFL the regular season isn't as important as the playoffs. Losing one game is not going to ruin your season like it can in college. Same thing in the NBA. Goal is to make the playoffs, regular season isn't that important. Only in college football can one regular season game make or break you. Teams that are playing for pride (no realistic bowl shot) step it up against ND because no matter how ****** their season was/is, if they win they can say they beat ND.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I think the true ND Effect is unmatched, and it doesn't really even apply to the Nats. I understand what the host was trying to say, and I'm happy someone acknowledged it, but there is a major difference between what ND faces and what the Nats are facing right now. It is similar in that there is a target on each of their backs, but the reason it is there is different.

Notre Dame gets everyone's best shot because its Notre Dame. We're supposedly irrelevant now, and we certainly haven't been a superpower in terms of on-field performance in almost two decades, but every team we play circles us on the calendar. All the other teams that have been mentioned in this thread - the Nats, the Heat, the Patriots, etc. - get a target on their backs by virtue of being the top dog at the moment. Maybe the Yankees deal with something similar. Its been a while since they weren't really good, but there was probably some of that in the 80s and early 90s. I don't recall thinking Alabama was a huge deal when I was a kid in the 90s. Obviously they're a classic CFB program, but their aura is probably more of a regional thing.

 

[tadman95]

When I was growing up in the 60's it always seemed like Notre Dame was on TV. This was before cable. Now that probably wasn't the case but it sure seemed that way to me. Yea you saw the other big schools but they seemed regional. Notre Dame was everywhere. Without the internet (pre-Al Gore) coverage was spotty at best but Notre Dame always seemed to be covered. Beating them was a big deal. Still is.

That was a big reason I'm a fan now.

 

[pumpdog20]

No such thing as ND effect; they are irrelevant.

 

[peoriairish]

Who's this Notre Dame you speak of?

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Montreal Canadiens

I really wish I had time to rail on this one.. alas, Calculus comes first.

 

[Veer option]

My memory may be a bit faded but didnt the 90s Chicago Bulls teams have this problem as well?

 

[ulukinatme]

I don't think the Cowboys apply. While they do have somewhat of a national following, I don't think it's as prevelant as Notre Dame. They're probably the closest team in the NFL I would imagine, Patriots are probably getting up there.

NBA? Dunno, used to be the Bulls, everyone seemed to like them.

MLB is probably the Yankees, but they can be as poloarizing as the Irish where you either love them or hate them.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

In the various sports I guess there are team that have the ND effect. But imo I think the ND effect should be based on a team's history as much if not more than a team recent success.

NBA: Obviously the Lakers and Celtics. These two teams because these teams championships are the collective efforts of more than one guy or even team. They have been successful for decades.

NCAA Basketball: NC, Duke, UCLA

NCAA Football: ND, Alabama, Oklahoma, USC

NFL: Dallas, SF, New England,

MLB. Yankees

No slight to hockey. I just don't follow it so do not have an educated answer.

 

[IrishLax]

I think the true ND Effect is unmatched, and it doesn't really even apply to the Nats. I understand what the host was trying to say, and I'm happy someone acknowledged it, but there is a major difference between what ND faces and what the Nats are facing right now. It is similar in that there is a target on each of their backs, but the reason it is there is different.

Yes, it's completely different. One comes from a desire to knock off the current "hot" team and the other comes from... well, a lot of things.

Notre Dame gets everyone's best shot because its Notre Dame. We're supposedly irrelevant now, and we certainly haven't been a superpower in terms of on-field performance in almost two decades, but every team we play circles us on the calendar. All the other teams that have been mentioned in this thread - the Nats, the Heat, the Patriots, etc. - get a target on their backs by virtue of being the top dog at the moment. Maybe the Yankees deal with something similar. Its been a while since they weren't really good, but there was probably some of that in the 80s and early 90s. I don't recall thinking Alabama was a huge deal when I was a kid in the 90s. Obviously they're a classic CFB program, but their aura is probably more of a regional thing.

Right on, I agree with this. That's why I'm wondering if there are other teams out there that actually get the true "everyone wants a piece of them" treatment. I think Team USA basketball is a GREAT example, but very few teams can even compete with them. Are there any international soccer teams? Manchester United, maybe? I don't know enough about international soccer.

Here's another one that might fit... Duke for NCAA hoops? What do people think about them? I know in ACC country there is without a doubt no team more "hated" than Duke and any game against the Dukies is circled on the calendar.

 

[IrishLax]

Notre Dame is the only team I believe has the Notre Dame effect. I don't think any team in baseball has it because of the huge number of games they play. AL teams play the Yankees at minimum 6 times per season and division rivals play them damn near 20 times. In the NFL the regular season isn't as important as the playoffs. Losing one game is not going to ruin your season like it can in college. Same thing in the NBA. Goal is to make the playoffs, regular season isn't that important. Only in college football can one regular season game make or break you. Teams that are playing for pride (no realistic bowl shot) step it up against ND because no matter how ****** their season was/is, if they win they can say they beat ND.

This is a really good point... the number of games played in a professional season really dampens the impact of any singular game... so it's very hard to have the same effect.

 

[GoldenChild]

MAN U!!!!!

 

[IrishBlood81]

MAN U!!!!!

Uh...ya right, how about Barca?!


In the NFL, though they don't compare, Cowboys are the closest.

 

[Patulski]

I think any college team going through a dynastic type run-where they're a perennial Top 5 team- can get everybody's best shot. Kentucky currently has it in basketball, Alabama has it in football, UCONN has it in women's BB. Tennessee used to have it. Unfortunately for us, beating us-particularly at home- has been an all to common occasion. When Navy and Tulsa can do it, its not much of an accomplishment. and weakens the idea that teams have to give ND their best shot. So, I don't think the ND Effect applies to us anymore. Sad, but true imo. What I see is that the better teams treat us like we used to treat average teams. They let us hang around for awhile, but when it comes to the crunch, they buckle down and win the game.