Rees and Calabrese Suspended for Navy Game in Dublin

BobD

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I like the punishment choice. I don't care whether one did something more stupid than the other. You don't mouth off to cops and you certainly don't assault them. You say "yes sir", "no sir" and do what they ask you to do. They both need to learn to respect officers of the law. They will never forget this.
 

Rhode Irish

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I have been in Kelly's corner in almost all of his decisions. But I will not stand by this one.

His handling of this situation is the best sign yet of his competence.

I'm not following your logic in this thread at all. You complain that Kelly was being inconsistent because he punished Tommy and Carlo too hard compared to Floyd (even though the punishment he gave Floyd wasn't available here); then you suggest that what Kelly actually should have done is pass down a punishment that would be far MORE costly to the players and the team, apparently because you think their feelings will be hurt because they don't get to go on a European vacation. These guys are football players; they better be more concerned about battling for a position in camp than playing tourist for a couple days in Ireland.

Your real issue here seems to be that Kelly didn't do what you would have done if you were him, so you're trying to make some ethical or moral issue out of it. Kelly is the football coach, and he disciplined his football players. He did so in a way the was the fairest (if also perhaps the shrewdest) way possible, and Tommy and Carlo will deal with it. Hopefully you'll be able to, too.
 

Redbar

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I forgot to attach Wooly's response, but this is in response to What Would Wooly Do.

I know that my opinion is controversial, but how do you help a twenty year old who goes over to a teammates house to drink some beer on the last day of class. I mean come on, they should have never had the negative interaction with the police but, they were college kids celebrating the last day of classes. I don't think they need an intervention, or a life changing program. It was a first offense, they were not banned from any team related activities, they will miss one game. Maybe I am oversimplifying it but I think he got it about right, I certainly don't read any self-serving, ulterior motives of a conspiratorial nature. (Although Johhnykillz might).

Respectfully, Redbar.
 

NDPhilly

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Anyone else find the timing of the announcement odd? Why not wait until Friday?
 

BGIF

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Sad Day At ND

Sad Day At ND

For decades ND has walked to a different drummer than than the football powers of the SEC, Pac 10, ACC, BIG 12, SWC, etc. in dealing with Student Athlete misconduct.

At the Bamas, FSUs, and USCs a head coach decided what was an appropriate from running the stadium steps to sitting out the first quarter versus that all important opener against Southwest Directional State.

At ND student conduct is defined by du Lac, the student handbook for all students (athletes don't get a jock waiver) and infractions are dealt with by RAs or in more severe cases by ResLife. Coaches were not a part of the process.

Through the years ND sports when Browner, Fry, et al were suspended for a year, 1974, for parietal violation (excessive biblical knowledge) They all returned to ND after a year absence curtesy of Res/Life.

Micheal Stonebreaker was suspended for a year, 1987, for driving on campus (acutally parking a car) when he driver's license was suspended to an accident which almost killed him.

John Cerasani was suspended for a semester from extracurricular activities for punching a teammate outside a South Bend bar at 2 am. The teammate had made a crude comment about Cerasani's terminally ill mother. Had Cerasani nailed the teammate on the practice field he probably would have gotten an "attaboy" by the coaches instead ResLife gave him a "Ah $hit". Cerasani's altercation and ResLife adjudication took place during Spring Ball. Instead of suspending him for the Spring Semester, ResLife held it over to the following Fall Semester, Cerasani's senior year. He appealed the judgement requesting it be served in the Spring so his terminally ill mother could see him play and graduate from ND. ResLife said no and Cerasani transferred.

Powers-Neal, Yeatman, Furia, Floyd and many others before them got the mandated extracurricular activities suspension. Individual cases varied as did their "penance" but they all got a suspension that was not issued by a coach.

Yes, Kelly suspended Floyd over a DUI but the different was in previous situations ND coaches took no action but deferred to ResLife (who has primacy) to deal with on their schedule. Under usual procedures ResLife would have heard Floyd case later in the Spring or later as they ResLife usually meet after any law enforcement issues are resolved generally ensuring that any suspension was served the following semester. That would have been Floyd's senior season like Cerasani. By immediately suspending Floyd, Kelly finessed the situation. ResLife could now take into consideration "time served" (Spring Ball Suspension), as well as the couseling Floyd went through and the other sackcloth and ashes rehabilition.

As Kelly was still new the inner workings at ND (recall he stuck his foot in his mouth more than once with public statement like "Redshirting). Last year ND had just had a change in leadership at ResLife. Under the previous administration, President Malloy's, Floyd would have missed football season by directive. With a more recent President putting his stamp on UND through personnel changes Floyd faced a less Draconian ResLife. While Kelly got credit through the media for taking charge of the Floyd situation I believe it was handled by back channels. The team spiritual leader, the AD, or even Fr Jenkins suggesting a Spring Ball Semester Suspension would achieve du Lac's goals (corrective action) on a timely basis.

Keep in mind Parshegian (Browner, et al) and Holtz had both won National Championships at ND. They walked the walk in the football world but in the academic halls they deferred to the Administration and Faculty.

Holtz and other coaches have suspended athlete from games for team rules violations not for du Lac violations. The Rees and Calabrese suspensions may have been the determination of ResLife,. I hope so. In the past the announcement as been for example been made by the Head Coach that Powers-Neal has been suspended by the University adn is out for the semester.

Neither the tweet by Hardin and the brief statement by Kelly on Tuesday mentioned ResLife nor stated that that decision was reached by the Head Coach or Coaching staff although many(most) posting here seem to believe Kelly acted alone. If so ND just became a step closer, a giant step closer to the Bama's and FSU's. That would indeed be a sad day.

It was also a sad day for the glee some "fans" took in the suspension. Excellence and teamwork is achieved through competion and someone rising to the top and winning the job not getting it by default. Those that come in second or third or wherever are commended for their efforts and don't justify your derision.

Last year before the season started the 5 Star Crist and 3 Star Rees were tied. "After reviewing all the practices, all the drills, the coaching staff has decided there's no separation between Dayne Crist and Tommy Rees," Coach Kelly announced. Subsequently he appointed Crist the QB presumably as he was the upperclassman. Coach Holtz had an two axioms that apply:
1.) If you have two Number 1's you don't a Number 1 you have two Number Twos.

2.) At ND the fans favorite QB is the one not starting.


One half into last season Crist was benched and Rees became QB by default.



Since last season ended, fans have lobbied for ABBT, Anybody But Tommy.

"We Want Hendrix" ... "Golson's The Man" ... "Kiel Is The Future"

Now you've got your wish. Whomever starts the Navy Game and more importantly whomever starts the second half of the Navy Game deserves respect. They may succeed or they may falter but they're not the pros who play for millions that you deride with fervor. These young men wear Blue and Gold that makes them family.

ROOT LIKE A CHAMPION!
 

BGIF

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No Fall Practice is a 3 Game Suspension

No Fall Practice is a 3 Game Suspension

I'm glad you asked:

Tommy
- No fall practice: ..

The NCAA requires athletes go through acclimation periods as specifed by NCAA regulations prior to playing in a game. That's why in Spring Ball and Preseason Practice they start with calisthenics and shells and incrementally add equipment and contact on a scheduled basis.

Athletes can not be cleared to play until they have undergone such acclimation.

Your plan of action would be tantamount to a 3 game suspension rather than the 1 game he faces now.

As far as the rest of your prescription, at ND that's ResLife territory not a coach's. Let the coach deal with wind sprints and crab drills while ResLife deals with Community Service, counseling, etc.
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

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For decades ND has walked to a different drummer than than the football powers of the SEC, Pac 10, ACC, BIG 12, SWC, etc. in dealing with Student Athlete misconduct.

At the Bamas, FSUs, and USCs a head coach decided what was an appropriate from running the stadium steps to sitting out the first quarter versus that all important opener against Southwest Directional State.

At ND student conduct is defined by du Lac, the student handbook for all students (athletes don't get a jock waiver) and infractions are dealt with by RAs or in more severe cases by ResLife. Coaches were not a part of the process.

Through the years ND sports when Browner, Fry, et al were suspended for a year, 1974, for parietal violation (excessive biblical knowledge) They all returned to ND after a year absence curtesy of Res/Life.

Micheal Stonebreaker was suspended for a year, 1987, for driving on campus (acutally parking a car) when he driver's license was suspended to an accident which almost killed him.

John Cerasani was suspended for a semester from extracurricular activities for punching a teammate outside a South Bend bar at 2 am. The teammate had made a crude comment about Cerasani's terminally ill mother. Had Cerasani nailed the teammate on the practice field he probably would have gotten an "attaboy" by the coaches instead ResLife gave him a "Ah $hit". Cerasani's altercation and ResLife adjudication took place during Spring Ball. Instead of suspending him for the Spring Semester, ResLife held it over to the following Fall Semester, Cerasani's senior year. He appealed the judgement requesting it be served in the Spring so his terminally ill mother could see him play and graduate from ND. ResLife said no and Cerasani transferred.

Powers-Neal, Yeatman, Furia, Floyd and many others before them got the mandated extracurricular activities suspension. Individual cases varied as did their "penance" but they all got a suspension that was not issued by a coach.

Yes, Kelly suspended Floyd over a DUI but the different was in previous situations ND coaches took no action but deferred to ResLife (who has primacy) to deal with on their schedule. Under usual procedures ResLife would have heard Floyd case later in the Spring or later as they ResLife usually meet after any law enforcement issues are resolved generally ensuring that any suspension was served the following semester. That would have been Floyd's senior season like Cerasani. By immediately suspending Floyd, Kelly finessed the situation. ResLife could now take into consideration "time served" (Spring Ball Suspension), as well as the couseling Floyd went through and the other sackcloth and ashes rehabilition.

As Kelly was still new the inner workings at ND (recall he stuck his foot in his mouth more than once with public statement like "Redshirting). Last year ND had just had a change in leadership at ResLife. Under the previous administration, President Malloy's, Floyd would have missed football season by directive. With a more recent President putting his stamp on UND through personnel changes Floyd faced a less Draconian ResLife. While Kelly got credit through the media for taking charge of the Floyd situation I believe it was handled by back channels. The team spiritual leader, the AD, or even Fr Jenkins suggesting a Spring Ball Semester Suspension would achieve du Lac's goals (corrective action) on a timely basis.

Keep in mind Parshegian (Browner, et al) and Holtz had both won National Championships at ND. They walked the walk in the football world but in the academic halls they deferred to the Administration and Faculty.

Holtz and other coaches have suspended athlete from games for team rules violations not for du Lac violations. The Rees and Calabrese suspensions may have been the determination of ResLife,. I hope so. In the past the announcement as been for example been made by the Head Coach that Powers-Neal has been suspended by the University adn is out for the semester.

Neither the tweet by Hardin and the brief statement by Kelly on Tuesday mentioned ResLife nor stated that that decision was reached by the Head Coach or Coaching staff although many(most) posting here seem to believe Kelly acted alone. If so ND just became a step closer, a giant step closer to the Bama's and FSU's. That would indeed be a sad day.

It was also a sad day for the glee some "fans" took in the suspension. Excellence and teamwork is achieved through competion and someone rising to the top and winning the job not getting it by default. Those that come in second or third or wherever are commended for their efforts and don't justify your derision.

Last year before the season started the 5 Star Crist and 3 Star Rees were tied. "After reviewing all the practices, all the drills, the coaching staff has decided there's no separation between Dayne Crist and Tommy Rees," Coach Kelly announced. Subsequently he appointed Crist the QB presumably as he was the upperclassman. Coach Holtz had an two axioms that apply:
1.) If you have two Number 1's you don't a Number 1 you have two Number Twos.

2.) At ND the fans favorite QB is the one not starting.


One half into last season Crist was benched and Rees became QB by default.



Since last season ended, fans have lobbied for ABBT, Anybody But Tommy.

"We Want Hendrix" ... "Golson's The Man" ... "Kiel Is The Future"

Now you've got your wish. Whomever starts the Navy Game and more importantly whomever starts the second half of the Navy Game deserves respect. They may succeed or they may falter but they're not the pros who play for millions that you deride with fervor. These young men wear Blue and Gold that makes them family.

ROOT LIKE A CHAMPION!

WOW......JUST................WOW....Great post. Well done.Well said and I can't argue a single syllable.
 

gkIrish

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His handling of this situation is the best sign yet of his competence.

I'm not following your logic in this thread at all. You complain that Kelly was being inconsistent because he punished Tommy and Carlo too hard compared to Floyd (even though the punishment he gave Floyd wasn't available here); then you suggest that what Kelly actually should have done is pass down a punishment that would be far MORE costly to the players and the team, apparently because you think their feelings will be hurt because they don't get to go on a European vacation.These guys are football players; they better be more concerned about battling for a position in camp than playing tourist for a couple days in Ireland.

Your real issue here seems to be that Kelly didn't do what you would have done if you were him, so you're trying to make some ethical or moral issue out of it. Kelly is the football coach, and he disciplined his football players. He did so in a way the was the fairest (if also perhaps the shrewdest) way possible, and Tommy and Carlo will deal with it. Hopefully you'll be able to, too.

I really hate this notion that many of you are mentioning. I don't know anything about tommy or Carlo's personal lives and I would guess they are well off. But say they come from a poor family and won't make the nfl. They will likely never leave North America. Going to ireland is more than just a football game or a vacation. It's a chance to bond and create everlasting memories you can tell your kids about.

Why couldn't they have been suspended for the Purdue game instead? Might sound odd at first but why would anyone criticize Kelly for sitting them against a better team? Kelly could make a public statement saying that suspension for the Navy game would have been too much. I really don't think anyone could be critical of that.
 

UmphreakDomer

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why isnt one of the questions we're asking:

why is carlo's punishment being made BEFORE the legal process has finished? doesnt this change how things are being dealt with? kelly and co. are suspending based upon the situation and not the legality of the situation? if that is on fact the case, then it is all about the PR.

i also think carlo has plays better in against option teams. he will/could be missed.

i do think its ok to question these details, but ultimately, it doesnt really matter. this was the punishment i was expecting. i think we all were. when it's all said and done--do the crime do the time, whatever time they give you, thats just what they have to do.
 

BleedBlueGold

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My opinion:

I have to disagree w/ you gkIrish. Notre Dame offers its students and athletes great opportunities in life. For the football players, in this particular instance, they have the opportunity to play a football game in a different country. That is a privilege if every definition of the word. When you commit a crime of any stature, such privileges should be taken away. That, to me, is the bottom line. And it's a stance that BK has clearly taken given his comment on the situation.

I will refrain from getting into the comparisons of these crimes versus any other (ie. Floyd's). I will, however, state my opinion in that it is true that ND holds its students/athletes at a higher standard, thus taking such a firm approach in punishments this early in the season may prevent others from making poor decisions in the future. Which in turn, achieves the ultimate goal of forcing these young men to think before they act.

On another note, I do wish Golson and Hendrix earn the right to start, rather than it be handed to them, but that statement is moot as the punishment has already been given.
 

Chamellion

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why isnt one of the questions we're asking:

why is carlo's punishment being made BEFORE the legal process has finished? doesnt this change how things are being dealt with? kelly and co. are suspending based upon the situation and not the legality of the situation? if that is on fact the case, then it is all about the PR.

i also think carlo has plays better in against option teams. he will/could be missed.

i do think its ok to question these details, but ultimately, it doesnt really matter. this was the punishment i was expecting. i think we all were. when it's all said and done--do the crime do the time, whatever time they give you, thats just what they have to do.


Welcome to nd, where school punishment comes before, and is relatively more severe than, the law.
 

Sherm Sticky

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This is more than being suspended for one game. Imagine being around the rest of the team for all of camp with them super excited for Ireland and you know you are not going? That is missing a once in a lifetime experience. This is a punishment to send a message, for sure.
Seriously that's rough they can't even travel with the team to Ireland.
 

irishpat183

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My thought is: Tough cookies.

You have to consider, they (Carlo and Tommy) put themselves in this position. No one else. They went to the party, they mouthed off/assaulted an officer.......

I don't feel bad for them in the least bit. Now, am I perfect? No, but when taking risks (at a party when you're a high profile college athlete) you know there's a chance for an incident.

It's a part of growing up. They did the crime, they do the time. The punishment fits. I"m not going to compare it to Floyd and I"m not going to say I'm happy about it....But I don't disagree with the pusnishment and I back Kelly in his decision.

Also, if this opens the door for a Golson or Hendrix to step up? So be it. I doubt either one cares how they get on the field.
 

Irish Houstonian

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I personally would have let them travel but not play. The old First-Game-Suspension seems the norm for situations like these, but that's because most schools' first games are against FCS schools. Going to Ireland's different, and suspending them from play sends enough of a message.

I also would want my "whole team" there, for camraderie's sake. You don't want players consciously and subconsciously thinking about the people who aren't there. And there are probably going to be some close-friends of TR and CC who now aren't going to enjoy the trip as much.
 

Sherm Sticky

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I personally would have let them travel but not play. The old First-Game-Suspension seems the norm for situations like these, but that's because most schools' first games are against FCS schools. Going to Ireland's different, and suspending them from play sends enough of a message.

I also would want my "whole team" there, for camraderie's sake. You don't want players consciously and subconsciously thinking about the people who aren't there. And there are probably going to be some close-friends of TR and CC who now aren't going to enjoy the trip as much.
I agree with this.
 

OCIrish

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I'm not going to lie, I can't agree with this punishment just on the basis that Michael Floyd last year had a DUI and didn't miss any time whatsoever. I'm not at all enthused that Tommy lost his opening day starter because he screwed up...he did screw up and I'm not saying he and Carlo doesn't deserve the punishment because they do, I think there needs to be more consistency in how punishment is handed out. Floyd could have killed somebody or himself, Tommy tried running from and assaulted an officer of the law, only to be subdued by those vicious South Bend Cabbies......another instance of Tommy not being able to escape the pressure. All kidding aside, I don't think Tommy's actions warrant the game suspension when Floyd's crime was equally bad in judgement if not more so and could have ended much more worse than Tommy's action.
 
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BleedBlueGold

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I personally would have let them travel but not play. The old First-Game-Suspension seems the norm for situations like these, but that's because most schools' first games are against FCS schools. Going to Ireland's different, and suspending them from play sends enough of a message.

I also would want my "whole team" there, for camraderie's sake. You don't want players consciously and subconsciously thinking about the people who aren't there. And there are probably going to be some close-friends of TR and CC who now aren't going to enjoy the trip as much.

Strongly disagree. How is that fair to the players who actually follow rules? I stated earlier that it's a privilege to travel w/ the team for this game. Breaking the law, regardless of severity, should always result in those privileges being revoked.

Also, camaraderie's sake? Ask the 1988 team about Holtz suspending Watters and Brooks for the USC game. Did they get to travel w/ the team for "cameraderie's sake?" How'd that turn out?
 

Irish Houstonian

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Strongly disagree. How is that fair to the players who actually follow rules? I stated earlier that it's a privilege to travel w/ the team for this game. Breaking the law, regardless of severity, should always result in those privileges being revoked.

It's a privilege to travel, a privilege to play on the team, a privilege to have a scholarship, a privilege to attend the university, a privilege to have a driver's license, and a privilege to be an American citizen.

Just because something's a "privilege" doesn't mean Tommy and Carlo should lose it because of their actions here. That's just substituting a word for analysis. The question is whether this suspension maximizes the total benefit. Obviously reasonable minds can differ.
 

BleedBlueGold

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It's a privilege to travel, a privilege to play on the team, a privilege to have a scholarship, a privilege to attend the university, a privilege to have a driver's license, and a privilege to be an American citizen.

Just because something's a "privilege" doesn't mean Tommy and Carlo should lose it because of their actions here. That's just substituting a word for analysis. The question is whether this suspension maximizes the total benefit. Obviously reasonable minds can differ.

That's exactly what it means. Certain actions warrant losing all the privileges you just listed. It's up to those in charge (law officials, police, coaches, parents, etc) to deem which actions result in loss of privileges. In this case, getting arrested means no traveling, no playing per Coach Kelly. I have zero issues with this.
 
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PraetorianND

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It's a privilege to travel, a privilege to play on the team, a privilege to have a scholarship, a privilege to attend the university, a privilege to have a driver's license, and a privilege to be an American citizen.

Just because something's a "privilege" doesn't mean Tommy and Carlo should lose it because of their actions here. That's just substituting a word for analysis. The question is whether this suspension maximizes the total benefit. Obviously reasonable minds can differ.

Nailed the first part, except for the American citizen part, that's taken care of by the 14th amendment. Whiffed the second part.

I think that Tommy and Carlo should feel lucky that they get to stay on the team at all. Not letting them go to Ireland is IMO a reasonable punishment. In the real world, there is a good chance they would have lost their jobs, or had much tougher repercussions in general. Imagine if they were lawyers or military? They could have been disbarred or discharged. Not punishing them severely (taking away their trip to Ireland) wouldn't do them any good in the long run - a message needed to be sent and this was a good way of doing that.

When Floyd got his DUI he was compliant and remorseful. Tommy could have gotten his MIP/underage drinking or whatever (like Daniels) and nobody would have batted an eye. In this case he ran and HIT a cop. Again, I think he's lucky he's still on the team. In fact, most people outside of ND think it's a joke he IS still on the team. Taking away Ireland is nothing in the grand scheme of things. And Carlo.... Carlo really is an idiot for what he did.... If nothing else he should be suspended for having too big of a head - don't threaten the cops. If my kid did that I would suspend him myself (if he wasn't over 18).
 

NDhoosier

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It's a privilege to travel, a privilege to play on the team, a privilege to have a scholarship, a privilege to attend the university, a privilege to have a driver's license, and a privilege to be an American citizen.

Just because something's a "privilege" doesn't mean Tommy and Carlo should lose it because of their actions here. That's just substituting a word for analysis. The question is whether this suspension maximizes the total benefit. Obviously reasonable minds can differ.

A privilege can always be taken away if you dont follow the rules. How can you say the first paragraph, then continue with the second paragraph you wrote.
 
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PraetorianND

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That's just wrong. But you're clearly not a lawyer so don't feel bad. (If I had a nickel every time some drunk in a bar said "oh yeah...14th Amendment...!" I'd be rich.)

I actually am a lawyer. Notice my profile.

1) Of course you can voluntarily give up your citizenship.

2) If your citizenship was gained by fraud then you should never have been able to get it in the first place, therefore it was not a right to begin with.

3) The last legislation will be determined to be unconstitutional (if passed) and is not currently law.
 
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PraetorianND

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(1) "Voluntary"??? If you commit an "act of treason" (as interpreted by the gov't) then your citizenship can be revoked, period. Whether you want to lose it or not. That's the point. 14th Amendment can't do anything for you. Citizenship is a privilege you can lose with certain malfeasance. To say otherwise is just wrong.

(2) So we agree -- it's not a right, it's a privilege...If you have to jump through hoops to get it, then by definition it's not a "right".

(3) Just saying a law is "unconstitutional" doesn't make it so, (unless you're on the Supreme Court, which I didn't see in your profile).

1) If you commit an act of treason in the U.S. then yes, theoretically it can be revoked. Based on the list of "denaturalized citizens" you can lose your citizenship if you were part of the Nazi party of you gained your citizenship fraudulently (and a couple other exceptions). So technically you are correct; practically, you are not.

2) It is a right if you are born within the U.S. I'm not suggesting everyone in the world is entitled to U.S. Citizenship. I thought that is what we were referring to in this case.

3) Well it's not a law, it's a bill. So at this point constitutionality does not matter. It does not apply at all.

Lastly, there is a convention against statelessness (which the U.S. is not a signatory because the U.S. does not sign most international human rights treaties, or conventions for that matter) but they still loosely follow. Chances are slim that if a person is not a citizen of another country that the U.S. will strip them of U.S. citizenship even if they engage in treason.


Sorry to get off topic on this thread. I'm sure nobody wants to read this debate! I'll throw in my hat and get back to Tommy and Carlo.
 
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irishpat183

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It's a privilege to travel, a privilege to play on the team, a privilege to have a scholarship, a privilege to attend the university, a privilege to have a driver's license, and a privilege to be an American citizen.

Just because something's a "privilege" doesn't mean Tommy and Carlo should lose it because of their actions here. That's just substituting a word for analysis. The question is whether this suspension maximizes the total benefit. Obviously reasonable minds can differ.

I disagree. Because it's a privilege, they should only get to enjoy that privilege if they follow the rules. Otherwise, it no longer feels like a privilege. And it gets taken advantage of.

Kelly did the right thing. Maybe not for these guys to some of you....but for guys coming in. Set the tone.
 

rikkitikki08

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I have been high on golson since he arrived on campus....with that being said i want him to start which i think he will anyways. Tommy is the third string QB for the remainder of his ND carreer
 

irishpat183

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I have been high on golson since he arrived on campus....with that being said i want him to start which i think he will anyways. Tommy is the third string QB for the remainder of his ND carreer

True that. I liked Hendrix more at first...but Golson (after what I've read about him and some of the stuff I've seen on tape) is my frontrunner now

Of course I don't think Tommy or Carlo should get anything above what was handed out...And they will be given the opportunity to get back into the starting lineup, as they should.
 

ChiRish

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Correct. Also, (interstate) travel is a fundamental right and cannot be hindered absent a compelling government purpose.

I feel the most important part of the 14th Amendment is the last two clauses of section 1, where due process and equal protection of the laws are granted to ALL PERSONS, not just citizens.

And yeah, right to travel is fundamental but isn't that usually limited to residency restrictions? No fundamental right to international travel.

Yes, we're getting off topic, but when law comes up I always like talking about it haha.
 
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PraetorianND

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I feel the most important part of the 14th Amendment is the last two clauses of section 1, where due process and equal protection of the laws are granted to ALL PERSONS, not just citizens.

Unless you are governed by the NCAA.
 
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koonja

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Tommy will be 2nd string not 3rd. If Golson starts and goes down, you don't think Tommy will be the main guy with Hendrix coming in change of pace?
 
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