Dark Knight Rises Colorado Shooting...

[tadman95]

Supposedly a pretty sophisticated booby trap

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Problem with concealed carry is you have to abide by the laws, so you are not armed near public gathering places, bars, schools, etc. Just where some sociopathic moron would attack.

Are there restrictions on being armed in Ohio movie theaters? I'll definitely be carrying when I see TDR tonight.

Not sure I agree with the earlier assertion that an armed spectator wouldn't have made a difference, but there are simply too many variables involved to bother arguing about it. Commercially available body armor is notoriously unreliable, though.

I'm curious about the tear gas he used. Are such things available to the American public? My cursory research didn't provide an answer.

 

[nlroma1o]

Are there restrictions on being armed in Ohio movie theaters? I'll definitely be carrying when I see TDR tonight.

Not sure I agree with the earlier assertion that an armed spectator wouldn't have made a difference, but there are simply too many variables involved to bother arguing about it. Commercially available body armor is notoriously unreliable, though.

I'm curious about the tear gas he used. Are such things available to the American public? My cursory research didn't provide an answer.

I dont beleive its been confirmed what type of disabling grenade it was. I've read that it was a type of smoke screen, and then ive also read that it was tear gas. Which ever tactical grenade was used, I dont know if either are available to the public.

 

[woolybug25]

Was the Batman movie shooting imitated from scene in 1986 comic? | WashingtonExaminer.com

 

[mgriff]

Why is it always a terrorist is military or Muslim? It's bullshit that both are stereotyped as the standard terrorists. This guy was a PhD student. I wonder, will stressed out PhD students be randomly screened by the TSA and met with social stigma? It's bullshit that all the speculation when this broke was that it was a military person.

Wooly, c'mon man. Trained killer comment isn't that apt now that we know he was just a PhD student. I'm disappointed you pegged a military guy for this before knowing what happened. Colorado Batman Movie Shooting Suspect Was PhD Student - Yahoo!

This highlights absolutely why the right to bear arms is necessary. If someone had a gun in the theater they could have returned fire. It was tear gas to immobilize the crowd. Hard to return fire in that I know. It really ****ing sucks being CS gassed. Criminals and psychopaths will get guns one way or another, they aren't abiding by the laws to begin with. Don't infringe on my right to protect my family from scenarios because some people are crazy. You can make a ****ing bomb and kill just as many people with household items, are we going to ban all of them?

It's absolutely terrible for all of these people and families involved; my heart goes out to them. I wish we had more exotic means of punishment in our judicial system.

 

[woolybug25]

Why is it always a terrorist is military or Muslim? It's bullshit that both are stereotyped as the standard terrorists. This guy was a PhD student. I wonder, will stressed out PhD students be randomly screened by the TSA and met with social stigma? It's bullshit that all the speculation when this broke was that it was a military person.

Wooly, c'mon man. Trained killer comment isn't that apt now that we know he was just a PhD student. I'm disappointed you pegged a military guy for this before knowing what happened. Colorado Batman Movie Shooting Suspect Was PhD Student - Yahoo!

This highlights absolutely why the right to bear arms is necessary. If someone had a gun in the theater they could have returned fire. It was tear gas to immobilize the crowd. Hard to return fire in that I know. It really ****ing sucks being CS gassed. Criminals and psychopaths will get guns one way or another, they aren't abiding by the laws to begin with. Don't infringe on my right to protect my family from scenarios because some people are crazy. You can make a ****ing bomb and kill just as many people with household items, are we going to ban all of them?

It's absolutely terrible for all of these people and families involved; my heart goes out to them. I wish we had more exotic means of punishment in our judicial system.

"Trained Killer" was probably poor wording, and I didn't mean it as a deragotory statement for our servicemen. I just meant it by his true meaning, that he seemed to know how do to this in a manner where it looked like he was trained. That's all. Plus, the guy lives in a part of town were there is a lot of military people living.

I disagree with the returning fire comment though. He spread tear gas and the crowd was in an absolute panic. He was running through the people and any shots by somebody "playing hero" would have been through tear gas, at a moving target, surrounded by innocent people and it all probably would have been meaningless because the guy was wearing body armor. More people would have been put in harms way, because instead of their being one shooter, there would be a gun fight.

 

[mgriff]

"Trained Killer" was probably poor wording, and I didn't mean it as a deragotory statement for our servicemen. I just meant it by his true meaning, that he seemed to know how do to this in a manner where it looked like he was trained. That's all. Plus, the guy lives in a part of town were there is a lot of military people living.

I disagree with the returning fire comment though. He spread tear gas and the crowd was in an absolute panic. He was running through the people and any shots by somebody "playing hero" would have been through tear gas, at a moving target, surrounded by innocent people and it all probably would have been meaningless because the guy was wearing body armor. More people would have been put in harms way, because instead of their being one shooter, there would be a gun fight.

Fair points about returning fire in CS gas. But at that point when you realize what's happening, I would rather have the option to fight for my life and the lives of my family than just watch people being shot. There's an element of control to it, but I firmly believe that you should have the right to protect yourself and your own. A gunfight also gives people time to escape. The person returning fire would immediately get the attention of the gunman butchering innocents.

I wasn't trying to single you out, which I know I did, but I just saw your comment. I've seen all morning about it being a service member or a Muslim and it's just infuriating to me that it's the first thing the media and people assume. You're right it's in a military heavy area so there was the chance, but it's like saying it was a minority because it was in Harlem. Veteran suicide is one every 80 minutes right now. They sometimes take their significant others with them, but we don't see that being discussed and debated on the news. Sensationalism and tragedy sell and it's a god damn shame that a horrific event like this is what gets people talking about the mental strain on the military.

So I apologize I was just a bit upset that you generalized like that. No worries, moving on. I'm not sidetracking the thread just elaborating on why it really grinds my gears.

 

[goldandblue]

I disagree with the returning fire comment though. He spread tear gas and the crowd was in an absolute panic. He was running through the people and any shots by somebody "playing hero" would have been through tear gas, at a moving target, surrounded by innocent people and it all probably would have been meaningless because the guy was wearing body armor. More people would have been put in harms way, because instead of their being one shooter, there would be a gun fight.

Anyone with a CCP should be trained in the use of the firearm they are carrying. In your opinion more people would have been in harms way. In my opinion, a CCP holder with proper knowledge of a firearm could have saved the lives of 12 innocent men,women and children.

The only person standing in this situation would have been the gunman. There have been numerous reports that when the shooting started, people hit the decks or ran for the exit and the gunman simply walked the aisle way and shot people to death. A bullet to the chest even while wearing protective gear could have potentially stopped the gunman and certainly slowed him down.

 

[woolybug25]

Anyone with a CCP should be trained in the use of the firearm they are carrying. In your opinion more people would have been in harms way. In my opinion, a CCP holder with proper knowledge of a firearm could have saved the lives of 12 innocent men,women and children.

The only person standing in this situation would have been the gunman. There have been numerous reports that when the shooting started, people hit the decks or ran for the exit and the gunman simply walked the aisle way and shot people to death. A bullet to the chest even while wearing protective gear could have potentially stopped the gunman and certainly slowed him down.

Funny, because I wasn't aware that when somebody gets trained during CCP to shoot moving targets wearing body armor, through tear gas, in a pandemonium of several hundred people.

By the way, i'm sitting here with the local news on right next to me, who do think has a better idea of what people were doing? The people being interviewed have all been describing the scene as "chaotic" and "crazy". This vision of yours wher every body hits the deck, the gunmen stops and one person has a clear shot is simply ridiculous.

 

[goldandblue]

Ok, you sit hoping that no one has another gun if you are ever in a situation such as this.

Personally, give me 10 people with guns to shoot this bastard down.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

My stance is it is your responsiblity to tackle this guy if you are within ten feet of him. kind of like sitting next to the emergency exits on a plane. guess i could not blame someone for not doing so

 

[mgriff]

My stance is it is your responsiblity to tackle this guy if you are within ten feet of him. kind of like sitting next to the emergency exits on a plane. guess i could not blame someone for not doing so

I agree with that point but the average person is not accustomed to being in such strenuous scenarios and acting in the interests of the greater good. Self-preservation is very high on our list, so I can't really fault people for the flight instinct taking over in this scenario. Even seasoned combat veterans would have a hard time charging a man with an automatic weapon with nothing on their person.

You're completely right, if the five nearest people charged him when he walked in, four or five may have died but they would've saved others. It's kind of a moot point though because one in hundreds wouldn't react like that, never mind the required amount necessary to rush someone like this guy.

 

[irishff1014]

Midnight Movie Massacre: Survivor of June mall shooting killed in Colorado theater | Fox News

Damn this reporter is at the wrong place a few times. Not good at. This just makes it that worse.

 

[JadeBrecks]

Perhaps not in this situation, I won't split hairs on that, but it would be better than not having one when I need it.

It depends on how good a shoot you are and what you are carrying. Granted wearing what he was and decked out how he was it wouldn't help. Even knowing that me carrying if i can't kill or stop him at least i can allow him down or distract him long enough to let people get out. Also above you mentioned he had an automatic rifle. The news around here are saying that it is a semi automatic rifle. Are you for sure it was auto?

 

[woolybug25]

It depends on how good a shoot you are and what you are carrying. Granted wearing what he was and decked out how he was it wouldn't help. Even knowing that me carrying if i can't kill or stop him at least i can allow him down or distract him long enough to let people get out. Also above you mentioned he had an automatic rifle. The news around here are saying that it is a semi automatic rifle. Are you for sure it was auto?

James Holmes used 3 different kinds of guns during his assault on a Colorado movie theater ... including a high power assault rifle.

The Aurora PD says Holmes was in possession of an AR-15, a Remington 870 shotgun and a 40 caliber glock handgun when he was arrested this morning.

Cops say they found another 40 caliber glock in the shooter's car, located right outside the movie theater.

An AR-15 is a semi-automatic weapon ... capable of firing off hundreds of rounds per minute.

But i'm sure that it being semi-automatic would have given a good ol' boy with his six shooter under his jacket an opportunity to put an end to it.... I mean.... it only shoots a hundred rounds a minute...


Listen guys, i'm a gun owner. I support ownership, but acting like some guy playing hero would have made the situation better is silly.

Ok, you sit hoping that no one has another gun if you are ever in a situation such as this.

Personally, give me 10 people with guns to shoot this bastard down.

I barely trust people enough to make my food at restaurants, so I certainly want 10 complete strangers getting into a gunfight with pistols in a crowded place with me and my love ones in it. Especially when the other guy is in body armor with an arsenal of weapons.

 

[irishff1014]

Colorado State commit Zach Golditch was 1 of the 72 wounded.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Let us just get back to a bit of reality here. The suspect's mother called the police from San Diego, without any specific knowledge, just a general understanding of what happened, saying she thought her son did it.

The suspect had an AR-15, which is a civilian issue semi-automatic rifle. If he had a banana clip, or anything other than the standard 20 round clip, he could have shot for a minute and still have killed your @ss stone cold dead before you could have gotten to him. No one I know with experience with any sanity or sense wants to jump any weapon that fires a .556mm, (.223 cal) round. It is point and click, you are effed up. There is little or no recoil; it is a light easy to maneuver weapon; the round goes in about the size of a pencil, and who knows, depending on how it's rolling and what it hits, it can come out the size of a grapefruit or larger. I have seen such rounds discharged into a 55 gallon drum, which as I remember weigh about 450 lbs., pick it up and move it along the ground, until the back is torn off the barrel. You can image what you can do to a human, with it.

This guy isn't superman or the dark night. He wasn't competent, nor did he have the balls, they captured him at his car taking a water break, I have heard. Everyone wants to overrate the technology, and underrate the insanity.

A normal person will break out in profuse sweat when they have a killing machine trained on a human target. With training they can control this response. A sociopath or seriously disturbed person will not. They will be cool as a cucumber. This is an edge every time for the deviant. The only time these individuals will sweat is if they have a gun trained on them.

This was a semi-auto weapon. It could have been re armored to be fully auto, but it wasn't. This crap about rates of fire is just that. Sure one of these will fire 550 rounds per minute. But the shooter only has thirty rounds at his disposal without removing a clip, reinserting a new one, and re-charging the weapon, rechambering a round. I never, maybe once selected fully auto on my M16A1a1. One good trigger squeeze was the 1/3 of the whole clip. I couldn't have carried enough ammo to feed that.

Thank God that this was an untrained crazy person. Don't glorify the act, or deify the actor. On semi-auto, in two minutes to three minutes, in a crowded theater, with someone who really knew what they were doing, the death total would/could have been ten times what it was.

Oh yeah, and with this weapon in a gunfight, hiding behind chairs wouldn't do much good. In fact, without seeing anything, in my minds eye, James Holmes, made a grand sweep of the theater and most of those he killed were hiding behind their seats.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

What a senseless, sickening tragedy....., Im at a loss for words. Heartfelt prayers go out to the family and friends of the victims.

 

[HawaiianIrish]

God Bless all those involved in this tragic event... The victims, witness, family, friends, and all the LEO'S who responded.

Irish Envy Ohana be thankful for all that HE decides to share with us......

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Here's a blog post from Will Wilkinson titled Why Aren't There More Auroras?

Here's his guess:

We are more thoroughly controlled by our society's norms than we tend to imagine. In a setting of peace, outside the context of war, to perpetrate an act like the Aurora massacre requires an almost superhuman feat of volition. There aren't more Aurora's because we are sociable robots, programmed for peace. To override that programming and act really monstrously requires both an uncommon estrangement and an implausibly free will.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Whiskey,

In Ohio, an establishment with a Class D liquor license, which includes most of the new theaters, groceries, etc. can hang a no firearms sign in the window, and that is it. No go.

Reports are that he had a drum style cartrige, as opposed to the banana clip pictured in the AR-15 above. It was reported somewhere between 60 and 100 rounds. Hopefully it jammed, and that is why he returned to his car. So this kept the loss of life down.

I was right about the weapon. Witness after witness reported rounds penetrating the wall and still have killing power. That was .556 mm .223 cal round.

I was wrong about his target selection. It was all control with him. I saw the girl's (newscaster) brother describe her last minutes; she was hit in the leg and as she was tended to, struck in the head with a second, obviously fatal round. This was all about control, and not about humanity whatsoever. He did not fire at the person tending the girls wound.

Also, loud music began in his apartment at midnight. A downstairs neighbor went up, knocked on the door and checked the knob. It was unlocked. They did not enter. Probably saved more lives than we will ever know.

Maybe we should take time to be thankful for the lives spared. This could have been so much worse!

 

[arrowryan]

I makes me wonder, are we safe any where we go? Out of all places a mass shooting could happen, it happens in a movie theatre? It almost makes me not want to go to Notre Dame games anymore. This is just sickening and I can't imagine what it was like being in that theatre. God bless to all of the victims, the families, and the cops for the quick response(90 seconds is quicker than sh*t, I would know).

 

[Bogtrotter07]

No. We never were. It is an illusion. That is what makes movies like Final Destination so appealing; to some it speaks a hidden truth.

You think that you are not safe in a movie theater is a big thing? What about those that were peacfully sleeping in their apartment. That would have been a major clusterfuk if someone would have opened his unlocked door.

 

[tadman95]

NVM Apologies

 

[jason_h537]

Well looks like Fred Phelps has expressed his opinion. The Westboro Church plans to picket the Aurora shooting memorial service - National Places & Faces | Examiner.com

 

[95NDAlumNM]

Well looks like Fred Phelps has expressed his opinion. The Westboro Church plans to picket the Aurora shooting memorial service - National Places & Faces | Examiner.com

Great to see the right wing conservatives in action.

 

[jason_h537]

Great to see the right wing conservatives in action.

Not a fan of right wing conservatives but I wouldn't lump them in with that piece of trash Phelps

 

[irishff1014]

This is a group that needs to be taken out. There was a soldier in a near by town that was killed in Iraq and they came to town. However when they meet up with the Red Nights motorcycle gropu that is like firefighters and police officers and another large harley group they got an unwelcome visit to the eastern shore.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Well looks like Fred Phelps has expressed his opinion. The Westboro Church plans to picket the Aurora shooting memorial service - National Places & Faces | Examiner.com

It is to my understanding that these people are a family of lawyers? They go around to these services to try to **** people off...enough so that people will attempt to retaliate toward them, and then they sue people for any damages caused? Was this just me hearing things wrong, or can anyone verify this for me.

 

[Grahambo]

First, WB..my man, extremely glad you weren't there. *Reckless bro hug*

Second, less people need guns, not more. Even some who are trained should not carry. Having gone through mass amounts of training, impossible to tell how somebody would react. Less people need guns.

However, if I was there, a gun fight would have occurred. It is my duty to protect the innocent. Even if I don't hit him, more people could escape because he is now solely focused on me. Vest or not, he is going down. Gas mask is not stopping anything, aim small, miss small. Adrenaline would have limited the effect of CS to a degree.

If I stood idly by and did nothing while being armed, I whole heartedly failed.