College Football Live

[Buster Bluth]

Records 2007-2011
Air Force: 9-4, 8-5, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6
Army: 3-9, 3-9, 5-7, 7-6, 3-9
Navy: 8-5, 8-5, 10-4, 9-4, 5-7
Notre Dame: 3-9, 7-6, 6-6, 8-5, 8-5

1) five years is an eternity in football
2) the strength of schedules is hardly comparable

That's no denying that Notre Dame was a joke from 2007-2009, but that comparison is just silly.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I am with you on this one. The lack of offensive cosistency is a problem. One game the offense looks nearly unstoppable, and the next game the offense cannot achieve a first down. Notre Dame has the offensive skill players to have a big season, lets see what Kelly can do with them.

I agree, loosely, with what you're saying. But Notre Dame put up ~3300 passing yards (with Rees!) and ~2100 rushing yards.

This offense, which some on here act like struggled the entire season, average 413ypg, good enough for 35th in the country. That'd have ranked 3rd in the Big Ten.

Mind you, he did all of that with Rees.

 

[NDJimmy]

Strength of schedule is the greater disparity.

How many of the elite programs to which ND is compared would be willing to adhere to the academic and disciplinary ideals of ND?

I prefer the high road, even if it means fewer championships.

Winning the right way is far superior to winning at any cost.

 

[Downinthebend]

I agree, loosely, with what you're saying. But Notre Dame put up ~3300 passing yards (with Rees!) and ~2100 rushing yards.

This offense, which some on here act like struggled the entire season, average 413ypg, good enough for 35th in the country. That'd have ranked 3rd in the Big Ten.

Mind you, he did all of that with Rees.

I don't really put too much stock in the offensive stats from the past year, and heres why: when you have many turnovers, your offense gets more possessions (Instead of scoring, or punting, or some other transfer of posession, the team gives away the ball quicker and thus gets the ball back quicker).

 

[phork]

Cool man, we get it.

Get what?

What does relevant even mean?

If it means NC's then maybe 5-10 teams are relevant in any given year and even that's debatable.

For reference, before their last NC Texas hadn't won one for 35 years, Auburn hadn't for 50, Oregon hasn't ever and Alabama hadn't for ~20 (before '09).

UM is irrelevant as crap, it's been 15 years!
Oklahoma is irrelevant as crap, it's been 12 years!
OSU is irrelevant as crap, it's been 10 years!
FSU is irrelevant as crap, it's been 13 years!

How dare we think a team stacked with 4-5 star players has a chance to win anything... we have at least as much talent as any of the other teams playing the game, with a few exceptions in the SEC.

I don't think ESPN's allowed to say anything that isn't polarizing. It's good television. I really don't pay attention to what they say about us. Even Lou is hard to watch, I know why some people hate us after what he says sometimes.

What were the average records though? I bet they were better than 6-6.

Me too.

On another note, we're not close to Army, Navy, or Air Force when we're beating them by 20+ routinely. During the Weis years I would have TOTALLY agreed with this statement... but it's just not the case anymore. We were within a Dayne Crist fumble on the 1 of being tied with USC in the 4th quarter... and we dominated the last 3 games against service academies.... the statement Ware made is just ridiculous.

Except when we got cornholed by Navy not too long ago.

God, I would hate to be a ND football player right now, our fanbase is completely non-supportive. I have never seen a fanbase more pessimistic about its own team than Notre Dame football.

Realism bro, its where we are at, embrace the truth.

Records 2007-2011
Air Force: 9-4, 8-5, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6
Army: 3-9, 3-9, 5-7, 7-6, 3-9
Navy: 8-5, 8-5, 10-4, 9-4, 5-7
Notre Dame: 3-9, 7-6, 6-6, 8-5, 8-5

Ouch. Oh but wait, that was against inferior competition, doesn't count.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Records 2007-2011
Air Force: 9-4, 8-5, 8-5, 9-4, 7-6
Army: 3-9, 3-9, 5-7, 7-6, 3-9
Navy: 8-5, 8-5, 10-4, 9-4, 5-7
Notre Dame: 3-9, 7-6, 6-6, 8-5, 8-5

There are MAC teams that have those same records. Are they on par with ND too?

 

[Zbi]

I agree, loosely, with what you're saying. But Notre Dame put up ~3300 passing yards (with Rees!) and ~2100 rushing yards.

This offense, which some on here act like struggled the entire season, average 413ypg, good enough for 35th in the country. That'd have ranked 3rd in the Big Ten.

Mind you, he did all of that with Rees.

While Notre Dame did put up good numbers, they still struggled offensively. Statistics sometimes can be deceiving. Like I previously stated, ND looked like a BCS team in some games, and looked like a Sun Belt team in others.

In addition, maybe I just hate Tommy Rees.

 

[Buster Bluth]

While Notre Dame did put up good numbers, they still struggled offensively. Statistics sometimes can be deceiving. Like I previously stated, ND looked like a BCS team in some games, and looked like a Sun Belt team in others.

In addition, maybe I just hate Tommy Rees.

I'm not saying that the offense wasn't flawed. It was, and it's obvious that it was quarterback play. Quarterbacking turnovers did this team in. Not gameplans.

There is certainly room for great improvement, but let's not pretend that overall this staff and his players are "challenged" or defective. They need a stud signal caller; that's been the name of the game since the 1940's.

 

[NDhoosier]

Realism bro, its where we are at, embrace the truth.

Pessimists always think they are being realistic... but then again, if you are a fan of the team, at least have a little pride and faith in the program. Seriously, Notre Dame is about the only team I see that has such pessimistic fans, not something we should be proud of as a fanbase...

 

[Zbi]

I'm not saying that the offense wasn't flawed. It was, and it's obvious that it was quarterback play. Quarterbacking turnovers did this team in. Not gameplans.

There is certainly room for great improvement, but let's not pretend that overall this staff and his players are "challenged" or defective. They need a stud signal caller; that's been the name of the game since the 1940's.

Obviously quarterback play is essential for good offensive play. I do, however, think that game-planning was part of the problem. Even average quarterbacks can make good reads when they know what they are looking for. Granted, the opposing teams defensive coordinator will change things, but ND repeatedly made the same mistakes over and over. Every person in the stadium knew that Tommy was looking for Floyd every play.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Every person in the stadium knew that Tommy was looking for Floyd every play.

And that was coming from Kelly? He was telling Rees to stare down Floyd and force throws into obvious double and triple coverage?

On most of those plays where "everyone know what was coming", Rees could and should have hit Jones or Wood instead, but he just couldn't get over his habit of honing in on Floyd and Eifert.

 

[mgriff]

Hey I just put it up there, everyone doesn't need to get butt-hurt about it. At the end of the day that is the only stat that matters, so make up whatever excuses you want, we haven't been good enough. I'll still be wearing my jersey the first Saturday this season, dressing my daughter in her ND gear, and waking my *** up at 0500 ADT to watch CFB Live and my beloved Irish afterward. The bottom line is, we haven't produced and he is right, because our records have been more in common with the service academies than they have been with the elite of college football!

 

[Zbi]

And that was coming from Kelly? He was telling Rees to stare down Floyd and force throws into obvious double and triple coverage?

On most of those plays where "everyone know what was coming", Rees could and should have hit Jones or Wood instead, but he just couldn't get over his habit of honing in on Floyd and Eifert.

Lol

Although I do not think Kelly was telling Rees to stare down Floyd and throw in to triple coverage; I do think Kelly probably called the plays specifically for Floyd, instead of using him as a decoy. Now this is pure speculation, but that is the way the plays looked when I was watching. I do think it is partially Kelly's fault.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Obviously quarterback play is essential for good offensive play. I do, however, think that game-planning was part of the problem. Even average quarterbacks can make good reads when they know what they are looking for. Granted, the opposing teams defensive coordinator will change things, but ND repeatedly made the same mistakes over and over. Every person in the stadium knew that Tommy was looking for Floyd every play.

I strong disagree on the aspect of Kelly's gameplans; they were normally terrific.

The gameplans for South Florida and Michigan were the stuff of perfection, and they still lost. Mental mistakes =/= gameplans. How many times this season did Notre Dame cruise through teams on their first drive? Often. What was the offense production like between the 20's? Normally terrific.

As a guy who's coached the game (and I don't mean this as a slight), if I see that a team has done these four things, then they will win the game 90% of the time: 1) put up more yards, 2) have more first downs, 3) have a better third down conversion percentage, 4) have fewer turnovers.

Notre Dame did a realllllllly good job with 1-3. In fact they accomplished 1-3 67% of the time (26 of 39); and in the close games that they lost (USF/UM/FSU), they accomplished those goals in 8/9 cases. Those are the three things that are the best indications of a good gameplan, in my opinion. Notre Dame moved through teams this year, and outplayed teams too.

Mental mistakes and turnovers are crucial, as we all know. We watched a lot of bad-to-mediocre quarterbacking, that's just the simplest way to put it. I know it, you know it, and every analyst watching the games knows it. Notre Dame has the talent, they have the coaches, they need a quarterback (well, and some corners too).

 

[greyhammer90]

sorry but who cares? You know who was considered a terrible team by mostly everyone a few years ago? Stanford. I think most would have thought that they would've been demolished by Navy and Air Force a few years ago. Look at what happened there. Any team can turn it around quickly, especially a school with as many recruiting bases and other advantages that ND has. Lightning will eventually strike... everything else is just noise.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Although I do not think Kelly was telling Rees to stare down Floyd and throw in to triple coverage; I do think Kelly probably called the plays specifically for Floyd, instead of using him as a decoy. Now this is pure speculation, but that is the way the plays looked when I was watching. I do think it is partially Kelly's fault.

I'm sure a lot of our pass plays involved Floyd as the first look for Rees, but that's never the whole story. Then, IF FLOYD'S COVERED, it's: (1) check Eifert; OR (2) check Jones; OR (3) dump off to Wood. Or some combination of the three.

Aside from a couple games where our OL got pushed around, Rees usually had plenty of time to make those reads, and he still failed to check down from Floyd more often than not. So I have a really hard time putting that on Kelly. The guy's renowned for his QB-friendly system; he turned Pike and Collaros into stars.

Our 5 heir apparent to Clausen turned out to be a head case, and the uber athletic freshman that came in with Rees unfortunately had relatively little high school experience (running an option offense no less). It was a perfect storm of freak occurrences which enthroned a very limited QB as our starter last year, and our offense suffered as a result.

Now, if neither Golson nor Hendrix manages to take hold of the job this year, then I'll start to question Kelly's and Martin's ability to develop QBs. We have so much talent at the position now, that there's no excuse for continuing to struggle. But I give Kelly a pass for 2011.

 

[returnofthemack]

Pessimists always think they are being realistic... but then again, if you are a fan of the team, at least have a little pride and faith in the program. Seriously, Notre Dame is about the only team I see that has such pessimistic fans, not something we should be proud of as a fanbase...

I'm a huge fan of the team and have incredible pride in the history of the program. I have seen very little to inspire faith in the program. And I challenge you to find another program that has the history we do consistently underachieve. The closest I can think of is Texas' recent slump. If that continues for three more years, check and see how pessimistic their fans will be. Check again five years later. When a total of twenty years have passed since their last truly great season, let me know how pessimistic they are. If ND just had inferior talent, I would say, fine, I'll settle for 8 wins. ND has enough talent to win 10 games every year. Every year, instead of winning 10 games, they $hit themselves whenever they're in high-pressure environments, and sometimes they $hit themselves in easy games when there shouldn't be any pressure! Unlike some of you, I've only been a fan for 11 years. Before every season, I'd buy into the hype, be bouncing up and down in anticipation for the season, only to suffer a severe letdown. So this year, I expect nothing more than 5 wins. No doubt I'll watch every minute of every game. But I won't expect more than 5 wins. I see no reason to be optimistic, and ND has not given me any reason to be. Through this method, I hope that I won't lose as many years off of my lifespan as I have the last few years. My additional preemptive defense mechanisms are anticipating another BCS bowl season for scUM, and I think I'll become a bandwagon fan of Oregon.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Lol

Although I do not think Kelly was telling Rees to stare down Floyd and throw in to triple coverage; I do think Kelly probably called the plays specifically for Floyd, instead of using him as a decoy. Now this is pure speculation, but that is the way the plays looked when I was watching. I do think it is partially Kelly's fault.

Man I don't what you're watching. Floyd was the decoy pretty often. Off the top of my head Pittsburgh final drive was a great example.

To be fair, if you have an all-American, YOU USE HIM. Throwing passes to Floyd didn't kill this team, throwing passes in triple-covered did.

It's funny, some people are saying that Kelly should have called more plays for people other than Floyd (while knowing that it's pure speculation), and other are ripping on Kelly for his face turning people and blowing up at quarterbacks. Here's a safe guess: his quarterbacks keep f*cking up the execution and it's making him lose his mind. You don't look like this when a player makes a mistake that is your fault as a coach:

(And yes I know this was at TJ Jones.)

In fact I'll say with complete confidence that there aren't more than two plays in the whole damn playbook that say "throw to _____ regardless of anything." There are always reads, this is D1 football. You don't make it to this level, or any collegiate level, if you're calling plays without reads in them.


There's no doubt that some of this goes on Kelly, but sooo much of it goes on Rees, Crist, and a slew of tragic errors.

 

[greyhammer90]

am I the only person who laughs every time they see that picture? It's like watching the blueberry pie/gum scene in Willy Wonka except it's Brian Kelly instead of Violet.

 

[returnofthemack]

Pessimists always think they are being realistic... but then again, if you are a fan of the team, at least have a little pride and faith in the program. Seriously, Notre Dame is about the only team I see that has such pessimistic fans, not something we should be proud of as a fanbase...

Also, if you take a look around, I'd say the pessimists are vastly outnumbered on this site. Most of the time they're shouted down or browbeaten by the "Brian Kelly is the greatest coach since Knute Rockne/Tommy Rees 12-2!!!!/Go Tommy Go!" crowd, which is often a good thing. If everybody thought like me, the world would be a terrible place. I like hearing why people are optimistic and I like knowing there are still happy people who root for ND. I subscribe to the belief that if you expect the worst, if by some chance something good happens, you're pleasantly surprised. If the worst case occurs, you were right.

Don't kid yourself by believing the guys on the team read this $hit and take it to heart. They know they're only loved when they're winning - that's the nature of the game starting in high school. Save your sympathy for those underage drinkers you're saving the world from.

 

[returnofthemack]

am I the only person who laughs every time they see that picture? It's like watching the blueberry pie/gum scene in Willy Wonka except it's Brian Kelly instead of Violet.

I chuckle. He looks like he's about to breathe fire haha

 

[Buster Bluth]

Also, if you take a look around, I'd say the pessimists are vastly outnumbered on this site. Most of the time they're shouted down or browbeaten by the "Brian Kelly is the greatest coach since Knute Rockne/Tommy Rees 12-2!!!!/Go Tommy Go!" crowd, which is often a good thing.

He's not. Of course I don't really like separating one good coach from another. Good is good. He is, however, lightyears better than Weis, Willingham, and Davie. That should be obvious to all but the most pessimistic people.

If everybody thought like me, the world would be a terrible place. I like hearing why people are optimistic and I like knowing there are still happy people who root for ND. I subscribe to the belief that if you expect the worst, if by some chance something good happens, you're pleasantly surprised. If the worst case occurs, you were right.

I'd rather die than live in that world. I'm a smartass by trade, but that would be horrific.

Save your sympathy for those underage drinkers you're saving the world from.

Wait--what? Is NDhoosier a cop? If so, this is most excellent and I will give you all the repz.

 

[Zbi]

Man I don't what you're watching. Floyd was the decoy pretty often. Off the top of my head Pittsburgh final drive was a great example.

To be fair, if you have an all-American, YOU USE HIM. Throwing passes to Floyd didn't kill this team, throwing passes in triple-covered did.

It's funny, some people are saying that Kelly should have called more plays for people other than Floyd (while knowing that it's pure speculation), and other are ripping on Kelly for his face turning people and blowing up at quarterbacks. Here's a safe guess: his quarterbacks keep f*cking up the execution and it's making him lose his mind. You don't look like this when a player makes a mistake that is your fault as a coach:

(And yes I know this was at TJ Jones.)

In fact I'll say with complete confidence that there aren't more than two plays in the whole damn playbook that say "throw to _____ regardless of anything." There are always reads, this is D1 football. You don't make it to this level, or any collegiate level, if you're calling plays without reads in them.


There's no doubt that some of this goes on Kelly, but sooo much of it goes on Rees, Crist, and a slew of tragic errors.

I guess my view is that QB play relates directly back to coach. If the coach cannot find a quarterback that makes proper reads and decisions that is the coaches fault. Quit playing the quarterback that throws into triple coverage. I guess my examples were not very good at explaining my point-of-view.

 

[Redbar]

Pessimists always think they are being realistic... but then again, if you are a fan of the team, at least have a little pride and faith in the program. Seriously, Notre Dame is about the only team I see that has such pessimistic fans, not something we should be proud of as a fanbase...

I agree. I believe that a lot of the reason you see such "pessimistic" attitudes from Notre Dame fans and not from say, OSU fans when they have a down period, is that other fan bases KNOW that their team will do whatever it takes to get back to winning. Every corner will be cut, gentleman's agreements will be broken, under performers will be cut, liars will be hired, junior colleges will be pillaged, academic standards will be loosened and eyes will be averted. I believe part of some of our pessimism...er I mean realism is that we know that the powers that be here at Notre Dame are unwilling to do whatever OSU, or Bama, or Nike U, or the team du jour is willing to do to win. Somebody above said the truth hurts...and for me it does a little on a very base level, but not nearly as much as it would hurt to see the Golden Dome tarnished, my degree devalued, and another person, or in this case, entity, deviate from it's declared standard in favor of short term and fleeting... what??? Trophy??? Bragging rights??? Victories??? I have found that there are more important things in life than the end goals. How you get there is where all the growth occurs. It is where character is defined. It is where you are defined. Holding up a trophy in January, or hearing Andre Ware or Colin Cowherd gush about us, or being able to talk smack to UM fans is not what Notre Dame is all about to me.
If people were really being realistic they would say yes it is hard for Notre Dame to compete with USC or the SEC, we are not going to be giving as well as we are getting year in and year out with them and that is OK because that IS what makes us relevant. We are RELEVANT in that we will not forsake our values for this financial charade being perpetuated as amateur athletics. It is a huge financial sector being covered and perpetuated by ESPN and we along with a few others like the MILITARY ACADEMIES don't fit the new narrative. Would ESPN rather do a 30 for 30 on Tim Tebow or Manti Teo or one on Todd Marinovich or Marcus Dupree. Why does ESPN hate us? Because we have the network exposure to push our own narrative. We just need our kids to live up to that narrative. We will win again but it will probably never be like it was, and it will only get more difficult as society asks what have you done for me lately and demands it's gratification instantly.

 

[returnofthemack]

He's not. Of course I don't really like separating one good coach from another. Good is good. He is, however, lightyears better than Weis, Willingham, and Davie. That should be obvious to all but the most pessimistic people.



I'd rather die than live in that world. I'm a smartass by trade, but that would be horrific.



Wait--what? Is NDhoosier a cop? If so, this is most excellent and I will give you all the repz.

I agree he's a much better coach than our previous hires. However, a lot of people talk about him as if he is already an elite coach, which I don't think is true...yet. And yeah, he's five-o haha.

 

[ChiRish]

I strong disagree on the aspect of Kelly's gameplans; they were normally terrific.

The gameplans for South Florida and Michigan were the stuff of perfection, and they still lost. Mental mistakes =/= gameplans. How many times this season did Notre Dame cruise through teams on their first drive? Often. What was the offense production like between the 20's? Normally terrific.

As a guy who's coached the game (and I don't mean this as a slight), if I see that a team has done these four things, then they will win the game 90% of the time: 1) put up more yards, 2) have more first downs, 3) have a better third down conversion percentage, 4) have fewer turnovers.

Notre Dame did a realllllllly good job with 1-3. In fact they accomplished 1-3 67% of the time (26 of 39); and in the close games that they lost (USF/UM/FSU), they accomplished those goals in 8/9 cases. Those are the three things that are the best indications of a good gameplan, in my opinion. Notre Dame moved through teams this year, and outplayed teams too.

Mental mistakes and turnovers are crucial, as we all know. We watched a lot of bad-to-mediocre quarterbacking, that's just the simplest way to put it. I know it, you know it, and every analyst watching the games knows it. Notre Dame has the talent, they have the coaches, they need a quarterback (well, and some corners too).

Man I don't what you're watching. Floyd was the decoy pretty often. Off the top of my head Pittsburgh final drive was a great example.

To be fair, if you have an all-American, YOU USE HIM. Throwing passes to Floyd didn't kill this team, throwing passes in triple-covered did.

It's funny, some people are saying that Kelly should have called more plays for people other than Floyd (while knowing that it's pure speculation), and other are ripping on Kelly for his face turning people and blowing up at quarterbacks. Here's a safe guess: his quarterbacks keep f*cking up the execution and it's making him lose his mind. You don't look like this when a player makes a mistake that is your fault as a coach:

(And yes I know this was at TJ Jones.)

In fact I'll say with complete confidence that there aren't more than two plays in the whole damn playbook that say "throw to _____ regardless of anything." There are always reads, this is D1 football. You don't make it to this level, or any collegiate level, if you're calling plays without reads in them.


There's no doubt that some of this goes on Kelly, but sooo much of it goes on Rees, Crist, and a slew of tragic errors.

I'm just going to go ahead and agree with this 100%. I don't understand some of this. For one, how did the discussion again come around to Notre Dame being a talentless, irrelevant program? Are those speaking of such just attempting to stir the pot or are they actually serious? I was of the firm conviction that at the very least, it was accepted on this board that at least 2-3 of the losses last year were directly on bad QB play and turnovers. Those games, like it was said, we're failures in minute, albeit key, execution. Kelly, in only his second season and with a team that was still half full of players he did not recruit, had outstanding game plans ready to go. The problem was what we've been talking about all offseason. So what has happened since then? A coaching shuffle that has already borne fruit, the signing of the #1 QB in the 2012 class, and a plethora of playmakers ready to burst onto the scene, including one of the more electric players in the 2012 class in Davonte Neal. To think we don't have the talent or game planning ability is simply wrong.

What happened to all the excitement and optimism that this program had what seemed just recently? Did I miss something? Is this team all of a sudden devoid of talent and suffering from a dearth of coaching ability? No. It's exactly the opposite. Once that starts translating on the field, the irrelevant talking heads of ESPN, like Andre Ware, will have to find new reasons to propogate their nonsensical BS towards ND.

GO IRISH.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I guess my view is that QB play relates directly back to coach. If the coach cannot find a quarterback that makes proper reads and decisions that is the coaches fault. Quit playing the quarterback that throws into triple coverage. I guess my examples were not very good at explaining my point-of-view.

What if all of the quarterbacks aren't good enough to get it done?

You only have the cards in your hand and they can't be changed overnight, or even one season.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I strongly disagree with that.

Why? Other than Oregon who would you take off that list?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I love what Ware said, and I'm sure the staff & players (people who can actually shut him up) did too.

Look in the mirror boys, and look hard. The gauntlet has been thrown down yet again.

Are you gonna underachieve and validate these bozos for the fifth straight year, or serve them up a nice $%^& sandwich when the smoke clears? I have a good feeling the program chooses the latter. Put up or shut up Irish, bring the PAIN, and become the death dealers we have all been patiently (some not as patiently) waiting for.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Why? Other than Oregon who would you take off that list?

I simply think you're splitting hairs. Most of those teams are just "in the same ballpark."

Notre Dame has as much talent as those teams. The Irish lack some depth at DB and WR, but let's not pretend those teams are NFL-caliber across the board.

Notre Dame had four players drafted, and it could have been 6-7 if Teo and Eifert left. So the Irish will have 3-6 drafted this season. (Te'o, Eifert, Cave, Martin, Lewis-Moore, etc)