Why did Lou leave ND?

[Patulski]

He was on the decline. Change was needed.

Yeah, Bob Davie, Ty Willingham, Charlie Weis and Brian Kelly are just the change we needed.

None of them could carry Holt'z jockstrap on his worst day.

It was a monumental failure of leadership by ND's administration to let Holtz go. They have reaped what they sowed with 16 years of mediocrity.

 

[Patulski]

And then the Kim Dunbar situation came up. Now they could say "Lou, you lost control of the team. Maybe not on the field, but off it. You screwed up, not us. We're modifying the deal."

Malloy is a sanctimonious hypocrite. Why in the world would he still have DeBartolo's name on the Performance Center after he pleaded guilty to a charge of failing to report a felony, and received a $1 million fine and two years of probation in return for his testimony against Louisiana's corrupt governer Edwin Edwards?

Why would he name ND's practice fields after a guy who left his wife and 9 chiildren for his secretary?

I'll tell you why? Money.

Notre Dame would be a small inconsequential school had it not been for the football program. After all that football money got Notre Dame wealthy, Malloy and his sanctimonious cronies dumped football as if it was below them.

Monk's hands are dirty. He has no reason to point the finger at anybody.

 

[stlnd01]

Question - is the job more, less or similar level of stress as it was under Holtz? I might say less since we have twenty years of mediocrity and the internet age has brought all of college football under more of a microscope in some respects where ND was more scrutinized in the past.

Interesting question.

One one hand, expectations are lower now at Notre Dame. At this point most of us would be thrilled to make a BCS bowl, whereas Holtz was expected to contend for national titles every year. And they're higher at more other places that have seemingly banked their entire university on the football program. So, relatively speaking, I'm not sure ND is so much the most high-profile coaching job in football any more. Also, I've got to think assistants and staff handle more of the daily load than they did then.

On the other, there's so much more exposure on a daily level. Everything from recruiting, which has become this year-round, 24/7 hothouse, to every word you say being beamed out to the world and opined upon by dozens of reporters, to all the fundraising trips and whatnot. Oh, and, by the way, you've got to play Michigan on Saturday. And we better win more games this year than last.

On balance, I think it's probably become a tougher job. Big time coaches are basically the CEOs of corporations worth tens of millions of dollars. In our case, hundreds of millions. That wasn't really the deal in 1986. And the rope has gotten shorter. The ND Nation crowd calls for Kelly's head after two eight-win seasons.

Honestly I don't know how people do this for more than five years or so. Much as I can't stand Urban Meyer, I get how he had to take a year off.

 

[stlnd01]

Malloy is a sanctimonious hypocrite. Why in the world would he still have DeBartolo's name on the Performance Center after he pleaded guilty to a charge of failing to report a felony, and received a $1 million fine and two years of probation in return for his testimony against Louisiana's corrupt governer Edwin Edwards?

Why would he name ND's practice fields after a guy who left his wife and 9 chiildren for his secretary?

I'll tell you why? Money.

Notre Dame would be a small inconsequential school had it not been for the football program. After all that football money got Notre Dame wealthy, Malloy and his sanctimonious cronies dumped football as if it was below them.

Monk's hands are dirty. He has no reason to point the finger at anybody.

Monk was an arrogant weasel.
But I don't think Jenkins is.

 

[irishtrain]

Nice post. Listen to this young guys: This parable is definitely, "be careful what you wish for!"

The only thing you left out is the name of the Athletic director from hell; the Joe Moore saga, which ended under Bob Davies; and Bob Davies, salacious and libelous testimony.

Someone brought up Terry Brennan in another thread. If you talk about Terry or Lou, you are having the same converstation. Father H. or Father M., it doesn't matter. The administration wanted to de-emphasise football. Both presidents basically denied this in their memoirs, but they are the only ones.

Bogtrotter on the money. As far as the Kim Dunbar episode and Moss/Bouleware these are just examples of where the administration drew a line in the sand and said 'no more'. Kim Dunbar was something that any coach could not control-you'd have to be a friggin detective to get that stuff out of your players. Lou was a great coach and is a great man- this is a case of Notre Dame saying we are above the norm in college football and we dont operate in this fashion. If it were not for Notre Dame's glorious past and a national following from the subway alums Notre Dame would be no different than any other 2nd tier division one football program. I've said this before and I will say it again nothing will change until they start feeling it in the wallet-then Notre Dame will start winning again. Like everyone else who loves this football team I respect what they are trying to do but you cant beat pros with college guys who have one arm tied behind their back. It aint happening. And they are playing against pros.

 

[RDU Irish]

Notre Dame's NCAA Infractions: Ten Years Later | Bleacher Report

From Bleacher Report, seems to hit most of the big points on the Dunbar thing. As someone who catered the QB club luncheons, it is pretty ridiculous to hold those people out as boosters. 2000 to 3000 people crammed into the JACC for a $12 catered meal (that seems low but if not it was not much more than that).

I would throw out who I thought the player was who fathered a child with Dunbar but that is irrelevant and I am not 100%, but I know she did have a kid fathered by a player. I'd call that pretty solid proof of a "romantic" relationship. Further, it seems Davie presided over the tail end and fallout from this, not Holtz.

Swarbrick and Jenkins are awesome. Look at just this year men's lacrosse, womens soccer and women's basketball making solid runs at titles. They get that you build the rest of the school up, not tear down the football to everyone elses level.

 

[PANDFAN]

Notre Dame's NCAA Infractions: Ten YearsÂ*Later | Bleacher Report

From Bleacher Report, seems to hit most of the big points on the Dunbar thing. As someone who catered the QB club luncheons, it is pretty ridiculous to hold those people out as boosters. 2000 to 3000 people crammed into the JACC for a $12 catered meal (that seems low but if not it was not much more than that).

I would throw out who I thought the player was who fathered a child with Dunbar but that is irrelevant and I am not 100%, but I know she did have a kid fathered by a player. I'd call that pretty solid proof of a "romantic" relationship. Further, it seems Davie presided over the tail end and fallout from this, not Holtz.

Swarbrick and Jenkins are awesome. Look at just this year men's lacrosse, womens soccer and women's basketball making solid runs at titles. They get that you build the rest of the school up, not tear down the football to everyone elses level.

More Dunbar Trouble Awaits - Chicago Tribune

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Father Jenkins and Swarbrick are way better then Monk Mallory, Kevin White and Mike Wadsworth. I also read Lou's autobiography and he said he was very close to Dick Rosenthal and had more of a business relationship with Wadsworth. He rarely talked to Wadsworth.

 

[ulukinatme]

Rockne's record is what they used to cover it up and make a strategic exit. No way was that the true reason, it's just too hokey.

There will probably be a number of reasons why Holtz left. I think in his book he mentioned that he didn't feel wanted anymore, and when he went to the administration and said "Maybe I should go," nobody argued. In any case I think a lot of Holtz's exit probably had to do with a few down years, the questions coming up about Dunbar maybe, and the people feeling threatened that Lou had become bigger than the school itself in ways.

It's a shame that Lou couldn't have spent his final days coaching at Notre Dame under the right circumstances. Whether the game had passed him by or not I don't think we'll ever really know. He was a good coach though and he's a fine human being.

 

[Patulski]

Interesting question.

One one hand, expectations are lower now at Notre Dame. At this point most of us would be thrilled to make a BCS bowl, whereas Holtz was expected to contend for national titles every year. And they're higher at more other places that have seemingly banked their entire university on the football program. So, relatively speaking, I'm not sure ND is so much the most high-profile coaching job in football any more. Also, I've got to think assistants and staff handle more of the daily load than they did then.

On the other, there's so much more exposure on a daily level. Everything from recruiting, which has become this year-round, 24/7 hothouse, to every word you say being beamed out to the world and opined upon by dozens of reporters, to all the fundraising trips and whatnot. Oh, and, by the way, you've got to play Michigan on Saturday. And we better win more games this year than last.

On balance, I think it's probably become a tougher job. Big time coaches are basically the CEOs of corporations worth tens of millions of dollars. In our case, hundreds of millions. That wasn't really the deal in 1986. And the rope has gotten shorter. The ND Nation crowd calls for Kelly's head after two eight-win seasons.

Honestly I don't know how people do this for more than five years or so. Much as I can't stand Urban Meyer, I get how he had to take a year off.

Are you kidding me? These coaches get generational wealth from one contract. We're talking 15 million bucks to coach a football team, recruit and do some public speaking. And they get it whether they win or fail. I actually think its easier today than it was when Ara coached. He had all the job responsibilities and the pressure to win then, but got relatively little money. If he had failed, he would be worried about where the next money will come from. Willingham, Weis and Kelly are rich beyond most people's wildest dreams.

As for Holtz, coaching and pressure: The best coaches are the ones who can process their responsibilities and simplify the processes (and the message) to get the job done. This was the essence of Holtz. He had a very simple philosophy which he repeated over and over again. His players duplicated this philosophy in practices and games. Football was, is and will always be about blocking, tackling and execution. Holtz's teams did this consistently well, which is why he's a legend.

 

[Patulski]

Father Jenkins and Swarbrick are way better then Monk Mallory, Kevin White and Mike Wadsworth. I also read Lou's autobiography and he said he was very close to Dick Rosenthal and had more of a business relationship with Wadsworth. He rarely talked to Wadsworth.

That may be true, as Monk was a terrible steward of the football program, but Swarbrick's hiring is troublesome to me because he had no AD experience. Where else in successful endeavors are people hired in high profile jobs without any experience in that job? And to be fair to Swarbrick, he's not the only one at ND who is being hired without experience. There are other department heads who get hired without any experience. There's a lot of cronyism at ND, and it is a problem.

 

[Blaise]

If Lou stayed, prob would of coached til 2002 and then smoothly transition to the next era... We could of just skipped the Davie years

 

[Bogtrotter07]

That may be true, as Monk was a terrible steward of the football program, but Swarbrick's hiring is troublesome to me because he had no AD experience. Where else in successful endeavors are people hired in high profile jobs without any experience in that job? And to be fair to Swarbrick, he's not the only one at ND who is being hired without experience. There are other department heads who get hired without any experience. There's a lot of cronyism at ND, and it is a problem.

???

Born in Yonkers, N.Y., and raised in Yonkers and Bloomington, Ind., Swarbrick is a 1976 magna cum laude graduate of Notre Dame with a bachelor's degree in economics. Upon graduating from Stanford University Law School in 1980, he returned to Indiana to accept a position as an associate in the Indianapolis law firm Baker & Daniels, one of the largest in the state. He was made partner in 1987 and spent 28 years overall with the firm.

At the same time that Swarbrick began his career, the city of Indianapolis was beginning its effort to become a world-class center for amateur and professional athletics. Swarbrick quickly became an instrumental figure in that initiative.

As a member of the Indiana Sports Corporation, including the chairmanship from 1992 to 2001, Swarbrick led most of the city's successful proposals to a wide array of athletics organizations - from the National Football League (NFL) to the United States Olympic Committee (USOC) to the Big Ten Conference. His leadership efforts have resulted in the city:

•Earning the right to play host to the 2012 Super Bowl in Indianapolis at Lucas Oil Stadium. As vice president of the Indianapolis 2012 Super Bowl Committee, Swarbrick served as the architect of the city's bid and the presentation to the NFL owners.

•Becoming the home of the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) national headquarters in 1999. He coordinated the city's efforts by assembling an incentive package, building community support and presenting Indianapolis in the bid process. His persistence helped deliver an extraordinary corporate partner for the community - the NCAA employs 400 people, creates an annual local operating impact of $63.5 million and offers direct impact to the community on a quadrennial basis of at least $100 million through its events.

•Hosting the 1987 Pan American Games, where Swarbrick served as the director of competition.

•Hosting the 1991 World Gymnastics Championships.

•Hosting NCAA Men's Basketball Final Fours and other college championship competitions and a wide array of national and world championships in the Olympic sports. Indianapolis has played host to the NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four six times since 1991 - and Swarbrick engineered an agreement in which the men's Final Four will be played in Indianapolis on an average of once every five years through 2039. The economic impact of that agreement may reach $1 billion.

•Securing rights to host the Big Ten Conference men's and women's basketball tournaments at Conseco Fieldhouse for five consecutive years beginning in 2008 (Indianapolis now has played host to every women's Big Ten basketball tournament except one since 1995). Creative elements of the bid included a large job fair and endowed student-athlete scholarships.

He served as sports commissioner of the 1982 U.S. Olympic Festival in Indianapolis, competition director of the '87 Pan American Games, chairman of the '91 World Gymnastics Championships and an executive committee member for the 1994 World Rowing Championships in Indianapolis. He also served as a consultant to other communities playing host to or interested in attracting athletic events.

Swarbrick's practice at Baker & Daniels focused on the representation of owners of sports teams and organizations that sanction or conduct athletic competitions. He served as general counsel for numerous national governing bodies of Olympic sports, including USA Gymnastics and USRowing, and as a consultant to the 1996 Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta.

In his work as an advisor to the NCAA, Swarbrick:

•Coordinated the men's College Basketball Partnership, an NCAA-led group that addresses the opportunities and challenges in the sport.

•Developed the business plan for the new NBA/NCAA youth basketball enterprise, iHoops.

•Served as a member of the NCAA Division I Women's Basketball Discussion Group.

•Chaired the NCAA/USOC task force dedicated to developing proposals to expand sponsorship of Olympic sports among NCAA member institutions.

In 2000 Swarbrick received one of the NCAA's highest honors, The Flying Wedge Award, for his work in establishing Indianapolis as the new home of the NCAA. In 2001 he was honored by the State of Indiana with the Sagamore of the Wabash Award. In 2002 he received the Pathfinder Award from Youthlinks Indiana for his service to youth in the state of Indiana.

This guy can run organizations from the get go, and understands the NCAA from the top down.

 

[stlnd01]

???




This guy can run organizations from the get go, and understands the NCAA from the top down.

Yep. Given the depth of the waters in which he's swimming, I'd rather have a legal shark with Swarbrick's range of experiences than some guy who's claim to fame is having been AD at, say, Vanderbilt. Guy knows the business of sports like nobody's business.

 

[stlnd01]

Are you kidding me? These coaches get generational wealth from one contract. We're talking 15 million bucks to coach a football team, recruit and do some public speaking. And they get it whether they win or fail. I actually think its easier today than it was when Ara coached. He had all the job responsibilities and the pressure to win then, but got relatively little money.

Right. They get generational wealth from one five-year contract. Those five years are friggin' insane. And then they can afford to walk away if they want to.
I understand why some do, at least until the personality traits that got them to the top in the first place push them back in.

 

[phgreek]

all I know is, Beano Cook went off on ND admin. and said they'd regret pushing Lou out for a long time when it all went down...yet anymore he seems to have backed off the "pushed Lou out spiel"...although he nailed the regret thing...big time.

 

[NDBoiler]

That may be true, as Monk was a terrible steward of the football program, but Swarbrick's hiring is troublesome to me because he had no AD experience. Where else in successful endeavors are people hired in high profile jobs without any experience in that job? And to be fair to Swarbrick, he's not the only one at ND who is being hired without experience. There are other department heads who get hired without any experience. There's a lot of cronyism at ND, and it is a problem.

Uhhh, the President of the United States of America??

Sorry, couldn't resist one teed up that nicely.

 

[connor_in]

Right. They get generational wealth from one five-year contract. Those five years are friggin' insane. And then they can afford to walk away if they want to.
I understand why some do, at least until the personality traits that got them to the top in the first place push them back in.

One other point to mention about the generational wealth bit, is the number of years it takes to work your way up to a job where you can earn that generational wealth. Over the last 5 maybe 10 years, you have seen a number of younger guys taking over high profile jobs, but they put in some time lower down the totem pole before that and before then, it seemed that most coaches were older and kinda passed from one place to another. So, once again many years in before really getting a chance at generational wealth.

But yes...once they get the job with that kind of paycheck, what is involved in being a head coach is absolutely insane. Its basically here's a ton of money to make up for the fact that you will spend very little time with your family for the next X number of years.

 

[phgreek]

One other point to mention about the generational wealth bit, is the number of years it takes to work your way up to a job where you can earn that generational wealth. Over the last 5 maybe 10 years, you have seen a number of younger guys taking over high profile jobs, but they put in some time lower down the totem pole before that and before then, it seemed that most coaches were older and kinda passed from one place to another. So, once again many years in before really getting a chance at generational wealth.

But yes...once they get the job with that kind of paycheck, what is involved in being a head coach is absolutely insane. Its basically here's a ton of money to make up for the fact that you will spend very little time with your family for the next X number of years.

agree...only to add the douchy nature of some boosters, the fickle nature of fans, the odd loathing of some faculty and admin, the 2nd guessing of alum and former coaches, and in some cases the complete insanity of high-profile parents...

I still think being a success (w/o cheating) at Texas, USC, Notre Dame, Florida, LSU, Alabama...thats a better resume for President of the United States than being a Senator...just sayin.

 

[Patulski]

Right. They get generational wealth from one five-year contract. Those five years are friggin' insane. And then they can afford to walk away if they want to.
I understand why some do, at least until the personality traits that got them to the top in the first place push them back in.

How many walk away? I've done no research, but my guess is that the percentage is very small.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

One other point to mention about the generational wealth bit, is the number of years it takes to work your way up to a job where you can earn that generational wealth. Over the last 5 maybe 10 years, you have seen a number of younger guys taking over high profile jobs, but they put in some time lower down the totem pole before that and before then, it seemed that most coaches were older and kinda passed from one place to another. So, once again many years in before really getting a chance at generational wealth.

But yes...once they get the job with that kind of paycheck, what is involved in being a head coach is absolutely insane. Its basically here's a ton of money to make up for the fact that you will spend very little time with your family for the next X number of years.

You know what? As the coaching ranks get fuller, the money will go away. I saw it in computers. My ex-wife arogant in her self-righteousness is seeing in nursing, it is hitting everywhere. Ask ex-pro's. Someone gets good, and all they have had is more money thrown at them. The next thing the team figures out how to do is replace them and save money. It will start in college football soon. All CFB is doing now is waiting to see if they are going to become minor league NFL or clean up their act. After that is done, either way, the money will start to go.