Who's Next? - 2019 Edition

[Irish YJ]

Will the new look offense attract any late WR interest?

 

[Luckylucci]

Will the new look offense attract any late WR interest?

Not sure but that’s very far down on the list of wants or needs, IMO. It’s pretty clear we are RS’ing 4 of the 5 WR’s from last years class. And then bringing in 1-2 in this class is plenty. Plus last years class has some guys that can really play. No need for numbers at this point and we already have talent. I’d use it elsewhere.

 

[arrowryan]

I wouldn't mind them taking another d-lineman even if they add Trice to the class. Maybe a o-lineman thats a late bloomer?

 

[Irish YJ]

Not sure but that’s very far down on the list of wants or needs, IMO. It’s pretty clear we are RS’ing 4 of the 5 WR’s from last years class. And then bringing in 1-2 in this class is plenty. Plus last years class has some guys that can really play. No need for numbers at this point and we already have talent. I’d use it elsewhere.

100% with you in terms of numbers/needs. I'd still be happy as hell if we could grab a late stud with Austin-like ratings. I'd love to find someone with crazy speed.

 

[irishog77]

Not sure but that’s very far down on the list of wants or needs, IMO. It’s pretty clear we are RS’ing 4 of the 5 WR’s from last years class. And then bringing in 1-2 in this class is plenty. Plus last years class has some guys that can really play. No need for numbers at this point and we already have talent. I’d use it elsewhere.

Based on what?

It's still maybe a little too early into the Book tenure to properly asses what ND has with WR's, but besides lacking functional depth, there is still obviously a lack of a down field threat and a lack of a play maker in the open field.

Maybe some of those guys turn out to be good, quality receivers down the line, but I can't help but think the lack of FR WR's getting playing time does not speak to the quality of their play. Even with the new red shirt rules allowing FR to play, we're still not seeing them. Austin is the only one getting any PT. Maybe the others continue to keep progressing throughout the year and play in later games? Hopefully that is the case. Until then, we know Kelly, staff, and team want to win this year, so I don't think managing the roster now for 4 and 5 years down the line weighs heavy on their minds.

I would think if a quality WR wants to get on board for '19, the staff would be willing to take one, because the corps as a whole has not shown anything to write home about so far this season.

 

[NDIrish88]

Based on what?

It's still maybe a little too early into the Book tenure to properly asses what ND has with WR's, but besides lacking functional depth, there is still obviously a lack of a down field threat and a lack of a play maker in the open field.

Maybe some of those guys turn out to be good, quality receivers down the line, but I can't help but think the lack of FR WR's getting playing time does not speak to the quality of their play. Even with the new red shirt rules allowing FR to play, we're still not seeing them. Austin is the only one getting any PT. Maybe the others continue to keep progressing throughout the year and play in later games? Hopefully that is the case. Until then, we know Kelly, staff, and team want to win this year, so I don't think managing the roster now for 4 and 5 years down the line weighs heavy on their minds.

I would think if a quality WR wants to get on board for '19, the staff would be willing to take one, because the corps as a whole has not shown anything to write home about so far this season.

I would agree with a nose tackle. I also think LB if Bilal does not come back

 

[arrowryan]

I would agree with a nose tackle. I also think LB if Bilal does not come back

Why would Bilal not come back?

 

[DONTH8]

.

 

[Luckylucci]

Based on what?

It's still maybe a little too early into the Book tenure to properly asses what ND has with WR's, but besides lacking functional depth, there is still obviously a lack of a down field threat and a lack of a play maker in the open field.

Maybe some of those guys turn out to be good, quality receivers down the line, but I can't help but think the lack of FR WR's getting playing time does not speak to the quality of their play. Even with the new red shirt rules allowing FR to play, we're still not seeing them. Austin is the only one getting any PT. Maybe the others continue to keep progressing throughout the year and play in later games? Hopefully that is the case. Until then, we know Kelly, staff, and team want to win this year, so I don't think managing the roster now for 4 and 5 years down the line weighs heavy on their minds.

I would think if a quality WR wants to get on board for '19, the staff would be willing to take one, because the corps as a whole has not shown anything to write home about so far this season.

Good reviews by all ND media members as well as the staffs endorsements on what they saw in fall camp from those guys. 4 of the 5 have only been in the program for 4 months. They probably don't even understand the whole offense at this point. Certainly give them an offseason before recruiting over them. A vast majority of the 19' WR's will be in the same spot they are, but next year.

How would a player in the 19' class help them win this year? It won't matter until next season and then we'd be in the same boat as we are now. We lose very little at WR. Except the sophomore class will be added fully to the depth chart. We have a substantially better chance at getting the sophomore class to grow and build that depth than we do of bringing in a day 1 player in the 19' class.

And where in the world did you come up with those numbers. Roster management matters as soon as that kid is on campus, because you know, he gets a scholarship. Right now, between the 18' and 19' classes we are at 7 WR's which is more than we should bring in over 2 cycles. I don't think adding 8 WR's over 2 classes is good roster management for the next season. When the staff probably wants to target 3, that'd be 11 over 3.

From what I've read the staff doesn't agree with this. Obviously the staff would bring in an elite WR. But that's highly unlikely, grabbing a "quality" player doesn't do anything to change your concerns. It just creates a scholarship glut.

 

[Irish YJ]

Based on what?

It's still maybe a little too early into the Book tenure to properly asses what ND has with WR's, but besides lacking functional depth, there is still obviously a lack of a down field threat and a lack of a play maker in the open field.

Maybe some of those guys turn out to be good, quality receivers down the line, but I can't help but think the lack of FR WR's getting playing time does not speak to the quality of their play. Even with the new red shirt rules allowing FR to play, we're still not seeing them. Austin is the only one getting any PT. Maybe the others continue to keep progressing throughout the year and play in later games? Hopefully that is the case. Until then, we know Kelly, staff, and team want to win this year, so I don't think managing the roster now for 4 and 5 years down the line weighs heavy on their minds.

I would think if a quality WR wants to get on board for '19, the staff would be willing to take one, because the corps as a whole has not shown anything to write home about so far this season.

I think the only thing we are short on (Lenzy aside), is speed. I'd take a chance on speed in a heart beat. Or any top 25 WR... I just wouldn't reach (unless the recruit has D skills too). We're full up on not-so-speedy WRs with good hands.

I would agree with a nose tackle. I also think LB if Bilal does not come back

With the year he's having, I really think Bilal will be back. I do think Simon might make it hard for him to stay put as the #1 Rover tho. Wonder if he could slide to another LB position.

 

[Irish YJ]

I don't think he can come back. I'm pretty sure we used up all his eligibility.

Per rivals scholarship chart, he's eligible to come back.

 

[RDU Irish]

Not sure but that’s very far down on the list of wants or needs, IMO. It’s pretty clear we are RS’ing 4 of the 5 WR’s from last years class. And then bringing in 1-2 in this class is plenty. Plus last years class has some guys that can really play. No need for numbers at this point and we already have talent. I’d use it elsewhere.

Tons of talent but is any of it elite? What do we really have for an elite difference maker at the offensive skill positions? Outside of Dex I have not seen the raw athleticism for an elite playmaker. A lot of potentially really good college players but we should be contending for a 5 star (or two) if Book keeps the offense rolling like this and we are able to stay on course for the playoffs.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Tons of talent but is any of it elite? What do we really have for an elite difference maker at the offensive skill positions? Outside of Dex I have not seen the raw athleticism for an elite playmaker. A lot of potentially really good college players but we should be contending for a 5 star (or two) if Book keeps the offense rolling like this and we are able to stay on course for the playoffs.

I have been impressed with the glimpses I've gotten of Young and Austin.

EDIT: Oops, Young is a sophomore. Duh.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

100% with you in terms of numbers/needs. I'd still be happy as hell if we could grab a late stud with Austin-like ratings. I'd love to find someone with crazy speed.

I think Lenzy and Keys have elite speed, we just don't know if it will successfully translate at the D 1 level.

 

[Irish YJ]

Tons of talent but is any of it elite? What do we really have for an elite difference maker at the offensive skill positions? Outside of Dex I have not seen the raw athleticism for an elite playmaker. A lot of potentially really good college players but we should be contending for a 5 star (or two) if Book keeps the offense rolling like this and we are able to stay on course for the playoffs.

I would love it if we could start competing for 5star WRs and RBs...
The new look offense is a good step towards that.
We're sitting in good positions with several stud WRs in 2020. Not so much RB IIRC. Crusader did a nice summary of 2020 WRs. IIRC, Henning, Scott, and Johnson are guys who could be 5 star WRs and are warm on ND.

 

[Rack Em]

100% with you in terms of numbers/needs. I'd still be happy as hell if we could grab a late stud with Austin-like ratings. I'd love to find someone with crazy speed.

This sounds like the next Brett Kavanaugh accusation

 

[Irish YJ]

I think Lenzy and Keys have elite speed, we just don't know if it will successfully translate at the D 1 level.

Thought Keys had a horrible 40 at the nike camp?

 

[Irish YJ]

This sounds like the next Brett Kavanaugh accusation

Not that kind of crazy lol.
I just want a few sub 4.5 guys. Lenzy I think was 4.5ish. I might boof myself it we got a 4.40 kinda guy.

 

[koonja]

You know who's really fast? Mac Hippenhammer. True Freshman at PSU who just went 80 yards and camped at ND and wanted to come to ND, but we didn't.

wow.

 

[Luckylucci]

This has been covered before but it might help this conversation. We probably won't be carrying as many WR's scholarships as we've been accustomed to. Because we are going to be carrying more TE's. Can't run a 2 TE offense and recruit the WR position the same as when it was all 3,4, and 5 WR sets.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Thought Keys had a horrible 40 at the nike camp?

There is a bunch of discussion about this on the first page of his recruiting thread. I think he has elite quickness, but the film shows him to have the ability to get away from a defender.

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/902000705887772672

 

[Luckylucci]

There is a bunch of discussion about this on the first page of his recruiting thread. I think he has elite quickness, but the film shows him to have the ability to get away from a defender.

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/902000705887772672

He was an incredibly difficult cover during fall camp. Creating separation is really what its all about. If he can create separation, he can create big plays. Separation can be created a number of different ways. He just needs to add some strength.

 

[Irish YJ]

You know who's really fast? Mac Hippenhammer. True Freshman at PSU who just went 80 yards and camped at ND and wanted to come to ND, but we didn't.

wow.

I had forgotten about this one.... I'm still @$$ hurt about this. Thanks for the reminder lol

This has been covered before but it might help this conversation. We probably won't be carrying as many WR's scholarships as we've been accustomed to. Because we are going to be carrying more TE's. Can't run a 2 TE offense and recruit the WR position the same as when it was all 3,4, and 5 WR sets.

We've stacked both though, haven't we?

There is a bunch of discussion about this on the first page of his recruiting thread. I think he has elite quickness, but the film shows him to have the ability to get away from a defender.

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/902000705887772672

I remember... quicker than fast...
What we are lacking IMO, is the fast... the guys that can blow the top off a D.

He was an incredibly difficult cover during fall camp. Creating separation is really what its all about. If he can create separation, he can create big plays. Separation can be created a number of different ways. He just needs to add some strength.

I love the thought of Book/PJ tossing digs, posts, and corners to him.

 

[Irish#1]

You know who's really fast? Mac Hippenhammer. True Freshman at PSU who just went 80 yards and camped at ND and wanted to come to ND, but we didn't.

wow.

 

[Luckylucci]

We've stacked both though, haven't we?

Yes on WR's, that's why we should be very picky with who we bring in. Very very picky, especially considering next cycle. A little short on TE's. Again this is under the premise of a 2 TE offense. So it's probably a 2 TE-2WR avg.

17' 2 TE's and 2 WR's (Robertson and Young) Armstrong now at RB, so is Davis.
18' 2 TE's and 5 WR's (Wilkins now at WR)

- Over that two years those numbers should probably be 4 and 4 (2TE and 2WR per year) So we're over 3.

19' 0 TE's and 2 WR's

- At this point, we are under on TE's but RS both from 18'. And still over on WR's by 3 and that's not accounting for the 4 RS's from the 18' class

20' 2 TE's and ? WR's

- Make up for 19' TE recruiting with 2. Probably want a big WR class with the talent we are in good position for.

 

[NDMIA]

Tons of talent but is any of it elite? What do we really have for an elite difference maker at the offensive skill positions? Outside of Dex I have not seen the raw athleticism for an elite playmaker. A lot of potentially really good college players but we should be contending for a 5 star (or two) if Book keeps the offense rolling like this and we are able to stay on course for the playoffs.

.9601 4* Kevin Austin
.9464 4* Javon McKinley
.9284 4* Chase Claypool
.9177 4* Miles Boykin
.9174 4* Braden Lenzy
.9026 4* Lawrence Keys III
.8986 4* Isaiah Robertson
.8902 4* Micah Jones
.8706 3* Michael Young
.8636 3* Joe Wilkins
NR 2* Chris Finke

To put that in perspective, Michigan has 4 4*/5* recruits at WR, Alabama has 8 4*/5*’s, and Ohio State has 10 4*/5*’s at WR. It’s not all about recruiting rankings obviously, but they are fairly telling. Alabama has a better group of 4*/5* receivers than ND because they have 4 5* players in that group. Ohio State doesn’t have any 5*’s at WR (they have one coming next season), but they have a ton of talent at the position. In terms of how ND has recruited the position, I’d say they’ve done quite well there. I don’t know every WR room in the country but if you did the composite score team rankings of just WR groups around the country I’d guess ND was in the top 8 or so in the country. They could absolutely use a 5* recruit but who doesn’t need one?? I think ND is just fine at the WR position as long as they can pull in 4* recruits and maybe compete for the occasional 5* like an AJ Henning. Also you need to realize where 5* wide receivers are born and raised because I don’t know off the top of my head but I’d guess the vast majority don’t come from the Midwest and most likely come from California, Florida, and Texas which means they stay in those areas.

 

[Irish YJ]

Yes on WR's, that's why we should be very picky with who we bring in. Very very picky, especially considering next cycle. A little short on TE's. Again this is under the premise of a 2 TE offense. So it's probably a 2 TE-2WR avg.

17' 2 TE's and 2 WR's (Robertson and Young) Armstrong now at RB, so is Davis.
18' 2 TE's and 5 WR's (Wilkins now at WR)

- Over that two years those numbers should probably be 4 and 4 (2TE and 2WR per year) So we're over 3.

19' 0 TE's and 2 WR's

- At this point, we are under on TE's but RS both from 18'. And still over on WR's by 3 and that's not accounting for the 4 RS's from the 18' class

20' 2 TE's and ? WR's

- Make up for 19' TE recruiting with 2. Probably want a big WR class with the talent we are in good position for.

For the most part I agree. I would probably go with an ideal 3WRs / TEs per year. I was surprised we took so many WRs last year, and probably more surprised they are keeping Wilkins on the O side of the ball. They must be really happy with the 3 CBs and 3 Ss they have. I think my biggest concern with D numbers is at CB and DE.

 

[Irish YJ]

.9601 4* Kevin Austin
.9464 4* Javon McKinley
.9284 4* Chase Claypool
.9177 4* Miles Boykin
.9174 4* Braden Lenzy
.9026 4* Lawrence Keys III
.8986 4* Isaiah Robertson
.8902 4* Micah Jones
.8706 3* Michael Young
.8636 3* Joe Wilkins
NR 2* Chris Finke

To put that in perspective, Michigan has 4 4*/5* recruits at WR, Alabama has 8 4*/5*’s, and Ohio State has 10 4*/5*’s at WR. It’s not all about recruiting rankings obviously, but they are fairly telling. Alabama has a better group of 4*/5* receivers than ND because they have 4 5* players in that group. Ohio State doesn’t have any 5*’s at WR (they have one coming next season), but they have a ton of talent at the position. In terms of how ND has recruited the position, I’d say they’ve done quite well there. I don’t know every WR room in the country but if you did the composite score team rankings of just WR groups around the country I’d guess ND was in the top 8 or so in the country. They could absolutely use a 5* recruit but who doesn’t need one?? I think ND is just fine at the WR position as long as they can pull in 4* recruits and maybe compete for the occasional 5* like an AJ Henning. Also you need to realize where 5* wide receivers are born and raised because I don’t know off the top of my head but I’d guess the vast majority don’t come from the Midwest and most likely come from California, Florida, and Texas which means they stay in those areas.

Out of all those guys though, who is a sure thing to take the top off the D except Lenzy?

 

[NDIrish88]

Why would Bilal not come back?

Thought he was a senior. The OFD scholly chart said he was one.

 

[NDIrish88]

I think the only thing we are short on (Lenzy aside), is speed. I'd take a chance on speed in a heart beat. Or any top 25 WR... I just wouldn't reach (unless the recruit has D skills too). We're full up on not-so-speedy WRs with good hands.



With the year he's having, I really think Bilal will be back. I do think Simon might make it hard for him to stay put as the #1 Rover tho. Wonder if he could slide to another LB position.

I agree Bilal will come back and I think he may move to Buck so Simon can get PT at Rover. Maybe even Simon goes to Buck, who knows.