Who do you want to replace Brian Kelly?

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EddytoNow

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In the past I was with those who placed our failures at the hand of the defense. But this season has made me question Kelly's ability (or that of his offensive coordinators) to make game-day adjustments with the offense. We seem to have an offensive pattern of scoring early and then being unable to move the ball as the game goes on. The other team's defense adjusts to what we are doing on offense, and Kelly and crew seem unable to counter-adjust. In short, we are consistently out-coached from the late 2nd quarter on.

Kelly has abandoned the uptempo game he reportedly was bringing to our offense in favor of a predictable downfield passing game. Opposing defenses seem to know our offense as well or better than we do.

I no longer believe that our failures can be remedied by simply hiring the right defensive coordinator. Changes are also needed on offense, and Kelly seems to be too set in his ways to make those changes.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But when it is broke, you better fix it or get rid of it and replace it with something that works.
 
Fbolt

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Concur there are no sure tjings unless Meyer or Saban-not going to happen.

Hire a guy, hold his butt to the fire for 3 years. We all have high standards-hold the program to those standards. There should be no extension crap thrown out. You win a Natty, you get an extension for more than three years.

There should be no drop off in W's since the program is stacked. A new coach will actually provide a bump in recruiting as it always does.
 
greyhammer90

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gkIrish said:
We need to make a move this year. We literally have the #1 potential open job in the country now that Herman is going to Texas. Who knows what will happen next year? Maybe Stoops retires or moves on. Saban may retire. Jimbo may move on from FSU. We risk taking a back seat to 3-4 other programs. Herman is gone but now we have our pick of the entire country.

As someone said, Fleck is the worst we could do. Maybe Urban does want to go for a third title at a different school (especially if OSU loses today). Schiano would be a quality upgrade. If Colorado wins the Pac-12 I would seriously consider Macyntire. Etc. Etc. We need a fresh start next year.
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gkIrish said:
Right...I'm saying there is no sexy candidate anymore now that Herman is gone so you are inevitably going to be disappointed if we make a move.
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This is where you and I disagree I suppose. Lets say that you're completely correct and that BK will never be the guy to lead us to anything great. And we will always lose to top ten teams under him. But I think I'm correct in assuming that you do think that years like this one are aberrations. From what I understand, most years under Kelly in your mind are going to lead to 8-9 win seasons, with the occasional outlier, good or bad. Heck you've even made odes to the board asking that people keep this in mind for future seasons in case of a "good" season next year.

In your mind, we have a potential to upgrade, and we need to immediately, even if that guy isn't the guy in the future. In my mind, if we aren't going to get the sexy AF coach, I would rather keep Kelly. The reason for this is simple. First, because while Kelly may not lead ND to glory, it is unlikely that he will be the cause of a complete demolition of the program. It is more than likely that ND will continue to be a top 20 team in the future with occasional years of bad and occasional years of good. So he's not actively doing damage to the brand. Second, if we trade Kelly for another mediocre coach (or worse) modern college football norms dictates that we will keep that coach for at least the next three years. John Harbaugh gets fired next year? The inevitable next Herman shows himself? A coach from another blueblood wants to change his surroundings? Too bad, we have Fleck for the foreseeable future.

All this to say, I would rather stick with what we have and have the ability to fire him immediately for the "sexy" coach. I think the risk of hiring a new (likely just as mediocre) coach, which could do more damage to the brand AND we would have to keep for the next three years would be much much worse.
 
gkIrish

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greyhammer90 said:
This is where you and I disagree I suppose. Lets say that you're completely correct and that BK will never be the guy to lead us to anything great. And we will always lose to top ten teams under him. But I think I'm correct in assuming that you do think that years like this one are aberrations. From what I understand, most years under Kelly in your mind are going to lead to 8-9 win seasons, with the occasional outlier, good or bad. Heck you've even made odes to the board asking that people keep this in mind for future seasons in case of a "good" season next year.

In your mind, we have a potential to upgrade, and we need to immediately, even if that guy isn't the guy in the future. In my mind, if we aren't going to get the sexy AF coach, I would rather keep Kelly. The reason for this is simple. First, because while Kelly may not lead ND to glory, it is unlikely that he will be the cause of a complete demolition of the program. It is more than likely that ND will continue to be a top 20 team in the future with occasional years of bad and occasional years of good. So he's not actively doing damage to the brand. Second, if we trade Kelly for another mediocre coach (or worse) modern college football norms dictates that we will keep that coach for at least the next three years. John Harbaugh gets fired next year? The inevitable next Herman shows himself? A coach from another blueblood wants to change his surroundings? Too bad, we have Fleck for the foreseeable future.

All this to say, I would rather stick with what we have and have the ability to fire him immediately for the "sexy" coach. I think the risk of hiring a new (likely just as mediocre) coach, which could do more damage to the brand AND we would have to keep for the next three years would be much much worse.
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Kelly proved that the Notre Dame brand can survive some disastrous seasons so there is really no situation we can't dig ourselves out of in the event we hire someone who is a disaster. My opinion is that the moment you know your current coach can't achieve what you would like him to achieve, and then you add in the fact that his floor is actually much lower than we all thought, you have to try someone else.

I am not willing to wait around for a sexy name to "maybe" be available.
 
gkIrish

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Kingbish01 said:
Those would bexpect considered good seasons for MacIntyre. ;)
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I know you are joking but 8-4 at Colorado is not the same thing as 8-4 at Notre Dame.

And I am not trying to be the MacIntyre guy on the board. It's just a name to consider. Now that Herman is not an option my realistic choice is Fleck.
 
Downinthebend

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Wild Bill said:
The bad fit D coordinator was his own fault for not making a move earlier. It was fixable in the offseason and he looked the other way. IMO, he's done the same thing with a few members of the staff, namely Luongo and Booker. Like others have already mentioned, he's made questionable decisions lately. I'd like to know more about the process he uses to grade or evaluate his staff but he seems to take a really long time to make changes.

I don't believe his offensive system is built for college success, specifically the running game. There's just too much lateral movement in the run game and not enough getting downhill. That type of running leads to no yards or negative yards far too often and then we have to rely on chunk yardage plays to keep drives moving forward. I believe the mere system, not the execution, is why we see offensive inconsistency. I prefer a system that relies more on downhill running and positive plays to create third and manageable situations. It makes it much easier to have a consistent offense. I'm not suggesting we play "man ball". I'd be fine with winging it, provided we run straight forward when it's not getting aired out.

The schedule was manageable this year. If great coach or even a really good coach was on our sidelines, we could be undefeated. That has really frustrated me. Arguably, we've had more talent than anyone on the schedule this year yet we've come up a possession short more often than not. That's on kelly, whether he hasn't developed the talent, made poor decisions regarding his staff, hasn't installed the proper game plans, hasn't made correct in game decisions, hasn't motivated his team to "want it more" than their opponent or some combination of all that I've mentioned (and I think it's easy to argue he's done all of these).

I respect Kelly for what he did for the program and he's going to leave the cupboard relatively full for the next staff. I hope he lands on his feet. For the reasons stated above, I think it's time for a change.
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Pretty much everything you said about the running game is absolutely untrue.
 
Kingbish01

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gkIrish said:
I know you are joking but 8-4 at Colorado is not the same thing as 8-4 at Notre Dame.

And I am not trying to be the MacIntyre guy on the board. It's just a name to consider. Now that Herman is not an option my realistic choice is Fleck.
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Ya, I'm just busting chops. I like Fleck as well, but I worry he isn't ready to coach week in and week out against the big time programs ND plays. Comparing Fleck now to Urban Meyer (at BG) he still needs to crush his next gig (Utah) before I'd be happy with the hire.
 
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greyhammer90

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gkIrish said:
I am not willing to wait around for a sexy name to "maybe" be available.
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See it's funny because for everyone's high opinion about the ND brand being able to bring in a coach on demand, I feel like the tactic of "take what's available" is more illogical than "wait for your guy." If ND is truly a top 5 job, like everyone is saying, for me it's merely an inevitability. It's not a "maybe" that the next sexy hire is coming next year or the year after. It happens every year.

To put it another way, imagine if LSU had fired Miles last year early in the season. We could've seen Michigan commit to Miles for the next three years and Harbaugh would be elsewhere. It's all about timing when you are the big blueblood. You have to assume that almost any year you can hire anyone you want if you are a true powerhouse program.

If ND moves on from a coach who has shown that it is more than likely that 8-9 win seasons will be the norm going forward, I want them to make as close to a sure-fire upgrade as possible. I just don't see that from this year's crop. I'm comfortable that in all likelihood when that coach does show up, ND has the program and finances to get that guy. I don't want to waste the next three years seeing if another coach can get there, when it's just as likely he won't even beat the "Kelly standard."
 
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NewBrunswickIrish

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Fbolt said:
Concur there are no sure tjings unless Meyer or Saban-not going to happen.

Hire a guy, hold his butt to the fire for 3 years. We all have high standards-hold the program to those standards. There should be no extension crap thrown out. You win a Natty, you get an extension for more than three years.

There should be no drop off in W's since the program is stacked. A new coach will actually provide a bump in recruiting as it always does.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there is no way Sabah leaves Bama. He probably has the best job, he barely has to recruit and still gets the top classes every year.

The only way I could see Meyer leave Ohio State is if he feels that the bar has been set too high at OSU right now and since he has already won a Championship there is no way go to but down. I don't think there is any chance he leaves and comes to ND but even making the playoffs would make him loved by the ND fan base while it's now expected by Ohio State fans. Imagine reuniting Meyer and Strong haha, that would only happen in a dream.
 
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Pops Freshenmeyer

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greyhammer90 said:
See it's funny because for everyone's high opinion about the ND brand being able to bring in a coach on demand, I feel like the tactic of "take what's available" is more illogical than "wait for your guy." If ND is truly a top 5 job, like everyone is saying, for me it's merely an inevitability. It's not a "maybe" that the next sexy hire is coming next year or the year after. It happens every year.

To put it another way, imagine if LSU had fired Miles last year early in the season. We could've seen Michigan commit to Miles for the next three years and Harbaugh would be elsewhere. It's all about timing when you are the big blueblood. You have to assume that almost any year you can hire anyone you want if you are a true powerhouse program.

If ND moves on from a coach who has shown that it is more than likely that 8-9 win seasons will be the norm going forward, I want them to make as close to a sure-fire upgrade as possible. I just don't see that from this year's crop. I'm comfortable that in all likelihood when that coach does show up, ND has the program and finances to get that guy. I don't want to waste the next three years seeing if another coach can get there, when it's just as likely he won't even beat the "Kelly standard."
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I get where you are coming from but there are also negative consequences to the program when you keep a guy everybody knows is on the hot seat. Realistically, really good coaching is going to be required to get ND to a 9 win season next year. Is that going to be enough to convince the world that Brian Kelly is ND's guy AND that he can lead them to the promised land?
 
irishff1014

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gkIrish said:
Kelly proved that the Notre Dame brand can survive some disastrous seasons so there is really no situation we can't dig ourselves out of in the event we hire someone who is a disaster. My opinion is that the moment you know your current coach can't achieve what you would like him to achieve, and then you add in the fact that his floor is actually much lower than we all thought, you have to try someone else.

I am not willing to wait around for a sexy name to "maybe" be available.
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Your last sentence is how you end up setting the program back years.
 
Downinthebend

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Wild Bill said:
Excellent point.
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"I don't believe his offensive system is built for college success, specifically the running game. There's just too much lateral movement in the run game and not enough getting downhill. That type of running leads to no yards or negative yards far too often and then we have to rely on chunk yardage plays to keep drives moving forward. I believe the mere system, not the execution, is why we see offensive inconsistency. I prefer a system that relies more on downhill running and positive plays to create third and manageable situations. It makes it much easier to have a consistent offense. I'm not suggesting we play "man ball". I'd be fine with winging it, provided we run straight forward when it's not getting aired out.
"

Well for starters, if there is a single way to describe this season's running game it would be downhill. By my stats through 5 games I've charted over 70% of the runs are downhill. Not really sure what else you expect me to point out, I could say I've watched every game probably 4 or so times, but thats just an anecdote. Really the only time we go east/west with any regularity is from a pistol look, and even then its physical as hell.c
 
gkIrish

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irishff1014 said:
Your last sentence is how you end up setting the program back years.
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Setting back to what? 4 wins? We are there already. There are only two surefire coaches in existence in college football. Can't wait around for one of them.
 
IrishLax

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We'll know within 48 hours (at the latest) whether we are in the market for a new coach.
 
Sherm Sticky

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Kelly is not staying out in the West Coast to recruit.

Kelly and ND will split ways and should be announced tomorrow or Monday the latest.


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tommyIRISH23

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Why are you guys so sure? And, if Kelly is canned, do you guys think ND has his replacement lined up? I.e. Have been in talks with the new coach for some time?
 
NDRock

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tommyIRISH23 said:
Why are you guys so sure? And, if Kelly is canned, do you guys think ND has his replacement lined up? I.e. Have been in talks with the new coach for some time?
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I can't think of a reason he wouldn't be staying out West to recruit if he was coming back next year.
 
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