Where is the sanity?

[STLcardz-NDirish]

Did you think that we'd be 8-5 this year? Didn't think so...

I was as optimistic as anyone entering 2011, but it's painfully obvious that Kelly isn't the top-flight coach that I thought he was. It's time to alter my expectations for this regime...

unfair to blame kelly fully for this season

 

[DillonHall]

unfair to blame kelly fully for this season

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he should fired until at least three more mediocre seasons. I also think that he was the best candidate available at the time. I'm just saying that he's not an elite coach, and it's doubtful that he'll ever win a national championship.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

Did you think that we'd be 8-5 this year? Didn't think so...

I was as optimistic as anyone entering 2011, but it's painfully obvious that Kelly isn't the top-flight coach that I thought he was. It's time to alter my expectations for this regime...

I predicted 9-3...and his first season was riddled with injuries. Give him a chance, because I'm positive he's baking a big fat pie made of crow for you all to eat in 2012.

 

[STLcardz-NDirish]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he should fired until at least three more mediocre seasons. I also think that he was the best candidate available at the time. I'm just saying that he's not an elite coach, and it's doubtful that he'll ever win a national championship.

I would say 2 more mediocre seasons and then we need to give Nick saban a call and a blank check.

 

[stlnd01]

If we're still mediocre in 2013, Kelly's got problems. But until then, be patient. This team had a lot of building to do after what Weis left behind. Not going to happen overnight.

 

[phork]

unfair to blame kelly fully for this season

Did you know that Brian Kelly is the head coach of this team? One or 2 games lost due to TOs is bad play. Consistent TOs is bad coaching.

I predicted 9-3...and his first season was riddled with injuries. Give him a chance, because I'm positive he's baking a big fat pie made of crow for you all to eat in 2012.

You are cute when you are drunk. Show me all the wins in his crow pie for next year.

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

I opposed the hire of Kelly from the first mention of his name as a candidate for the job. I will not get into the details of why, as I have posted my reasoning here many times. But essentially I believed, very reasonably in my opinion, that the program did not need to be completely rebuilt.

Swarbrick's decision to completely rebuild has left us in a precarious position. Notre Dame has gone all-in with Brian Kelly. I think honestly Swarbrick should be fired, if anyone. These two mediocre years under Kelly are on Swarbrick. It is not Kelly's fault, this is what happens when you are "building a program." Notre Dame could have very well been in the BCS the past two years if Swarbrick had decided to build off of what Weis left.

Weather or not Kelly will be successful remains to be seen. I propose ND should fire Swarbrick, bring in a new AD to evaluate Kelly after 1 or 2 more seasons, and if necessary make a move for a new head coach.

 

[GreatGolson]

This sums up every single notre dame fan, alum, student, and administrator

 

[Domer4ever]

Well, that nails it I guess. If you are calling BS, with the impressive college football resume that you have rolled out for us, then I guess we should all storm Kelly's house. #OccupySouthBend, anyone? If you haven't seen any "real progress", then you never will. You'll forever be one of those guys who is only happy when he can lord over his buddies with the fact that his college football is so good that they would probably make the playoffs, in the NFL.

Lol all right then smart guy, please post your resume which allows you to state your opinion on a internet message board as fact. I always find it hilarious when posters try to bring down and personally attack another poster on an internet message board because they have a difference of opinion. I could just as easily say you are one of these tools who never finds anything wrong with anything and chooses to view the world through rainbow colored glasses while blowing cotten candy out your behind. I'm not one of those people and I am not alone in my view on things.

Sorry but the fact is any "real progress" made under Kelly has been minimal if any. If you want to use Weis as your measuring stick then that's on you. I aspire for a little more then that.

 

[Domer4ever]

I opposed the hire of Kelly from the first mention of his name as a candidate for the job. I will not get into the details of why, as I have posted my reasoning here many times. But essentially I believed, very reasonably in my opinion, that the program did not need to be completely rebuilt.

Swarbrick's decision to completely rebuild has left us in a precarious position. Notre Dame has gone all-in with Brian Kelly. I think honestly Swarbrick should be fired, if anyone. These two mediocre years under Kelly are on Swarbrick. It is not Kelly's fault, this is what happens when you are "building a program." Notre Dame could have very well been in the BCS the past two years if Swarbrick had decided to build off of what Weis left.

Weather or not Kelly will be successful remains to be seen. I propose ND should fire Swarbrick, bring in a new AD to evaluate Kelly after 1 or 2 more seasons, and if necessary make a move for a new head coach.

Notre Dame is unfortunate in its timing because I think Urban Meyer could have been our's for the taking if we would have had the opening this year instead of last year.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Shouldn't bother to add to this thread, but since I agree with Buster's original post, I'll support him with one of mine.

I am just happy that a really fine coach was willing to take this job given all the things that had to be corrected to bring Notre Dame football into the 21st century. I admire Coach Kelly tremendously for exposing himself and his family to the outrageous invective poured out in his direction for every alleged flaw that a certain "school" of fans want to blast him about. I hope that he has found a way to ignore this often vicious attack behavior, and that his family is also insulated from it somehow --- there are ways to criticize without getting it to the levels that sometimes are put out there.

When Coach brought his organization to the job, we were in need of overhauls on everything from toughness attitude to conditioning to dietary control. We needed to adjust to 21st century spread and speed football on both sides of the ball. Some great talents were thankfully available to begin to build upon, but not enough of them, nor in all the critical spots [especially Quarterback and with one great exception, linebacker.]. Depth was a serious issue as well as D-Line athleticism. Many "fans" unaccountably refuse to acknowledge the magnitude of all these issues which needed to be overcome, most of which can not be fixed by "magic" without the right players and the sufficient time to get them smoothly on the job.

Kelly has taken a situation ripe for disaster, without key personnel fits, and transformed the team into an organization which wins two-thirds of its games, never against cupcake give-away competition. These young warriors have learned to play hard to the bell, even if they can't always get the "details" right. Complaints that this is somehow "bad coaching" show no evidence of understanding the totality of what the coaching staff has had to do. Comments from veterans said that last year they were just attempting to understand the basic sets and get themselves in more or less correct position. This year they said that they were getting down the smaller subtleties of the play-within-the-play. Next year those same vets may get to the point where all the basics and subtleties are ingrained as second nature, and the football intuitions [those don't-have-to-think-about-it instincts] can fully take over and the natural talent can rock-and-roll. At such a time, rookies also harmonize with the systems faster because all the vets around them are moving as units. Many "fans" seem to have no sense of where big-time football has gotten to.

If you're just already so much bigger, stronger, explosive, faster than the other guy, it doesn't make much difference if you make the subtle errors. We're not. That's why beating USC takes precision. Containing Denard takes precision. Outperforming any elites takes precision. We do not have the athletes yet in all the key spots [which means even things like offensive tackles] to win those match-ups without precision. But we almost did in many instances anyway.

Kelly has us close. Give us a QB who doesn't turn it over so much. Give us some OLBs who can cover and close ground --- a MLB would be nice too. We are very very close. Rather amazing what he's done with quite inadequate talents to work with in certain areas on both sides of the ball. Fire Kelly? Fire Diaco?? Unbelievable.

 

[phork]

Shouldn't bother to add to this thread, but since I agree with Buster's original post, I'll support him with one of mine.

I am just happy that a really fine coach was willing to take this job given all the things that had to be corrected to bring Notre Dame football into the 21st century. I admire Coach Kelly tremendously for exposing himself and his family to the outrageous invective poured out in his direction for every alleged flaw that a certain "school" of fans want to blast him about. I hope that he has found a way to ignore this often vicious attack behavior, and that his family is also insulated from it somehow --- there are ways to criticize without getting it to the levels that sometimes are put out there.

When Coach brought his organization to the job, we were in need of overhauls on everything from toughness attitude to conditioning to dietary control. We needed to adjust to 21st century spread and speed football on both sides of the ball. Some great talents were thankfully available to begin to build upon, but not enough of them, nor in all the critical spots [especially Quarterback and with one great exception, linebacker.]. Depth was a serious issue as well as D-Line athleticism. Many "fans" unaccountably refuse to acknowledge the magnitude of all these issues which needed to be overcome, most of which can not be fixed by "magic" without the right players and the sufficient time to get them smoothly on the job.

Kelly has taken a situation ripe for disaster, without key personnel fits, and transformed the team into an organization which wins two-thirds of its games, never against cupcake give-away competition. These young warriors have learned to play hard to the bell, even if they can't always get the "details" right. Complaints that this is somehow "bad coaching" show no evidence of understanding the totality of what the coaching staff has had to do. Comments from veterans said that last year they were just attempting to understand the basic sets and get themselves in more or less correct position. This year they said that they were getting down the smaller subtleties of the play-within-the-play. Next year those same vets may get to the point where all the basics and subtleties are ingrained as second nature, and the football intuitions [those don't-have-to-think-about-it instincts] can fully take over and the natural talent can rock-and-roll. At such a time, rookies also harmonize with the systems faster because all the vets around them are moving as units. Many "fans" seem to have no sense of where big-time football has gotten to.

If you're just already so much bigger, stronger, explosive, faster than the other guy, it doesn't make much difference if you make the subtle errors. We're not. That's why beating USC takes precision. Containing Denard takes precision. Outperforming any elites takes precision. We do not have the athletes yet in all the key spots [which means even things like offensive tackles] to win those match-ups without precision. But we almost did in many instances anyway.

Kelly has us close. Give us a QB who doesn't turn it over so much. Give us some OLBs who can cover and close ground --- a MLB would be nice too. We are very very close. Rather amazing what he's done with quite inadequate talents to work with in certain areas on both sides of the ball. Fire Kelly? Fire Diaco?? Unbelievable.

Brady Hoke finds your posts amusing.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Please analyze the speed [everywhere] which Rodriguez left Hoke to work with, plus the most non-defendable QB threat in the nation, plus all-american anchors on both sides of the lines, and I'll share Hoke's amusement. The comment reminds me of crediting Willingham for that great Defense he inherited which won him ten or so straight games with no effort particularly on his part. Situations need to be evaluated as individualistically as they are, not with blanket generalizations. Hoke deserves the credit for utilizing a motherload of talent sitting around waiting for him. Good on him that he didn't ruin it. In his dreams he is probably praying nice things for Richrod for the presents left behind.

And thanks as always for your down-putting. Always appreciated in a "colleague".

 

[CoachB]

Please analyze the speed [everywhere] which Rodriguez left Hoke to work with, plus the most non-defendable QB threat in the nation, plus all-american anchors on both sides of the lines, and I'll share Hoke's amusement. The comment reminds me of crediting Willingham for that great Defense he inherited which won him ten or so straight games with no effort particularly on his part. Situations need to be evaluated as individualistically as they are, not with blanket generalizations. Hoke deserves the credit for utilizing a motherload of talent sitting around waiting for him. Good on him that he didn't ruin it. In his dreams he is probably praying nice things for Richrod for the presents left behind.

And thanks as always for your down-putting. Always appreciated in a "colleague".

I agree completely, OMM, on both of your posts. I have learned over the years that many "fans" don't really understand football. If people cannot see improvement in the Irish team, they honestly don't know the game. Sorry if that sounds like a personal shot to some people, but the improvement, as OMM hit upon, is immense. For the second post, I live in the heart of Michigan country, and know their personnel fairly well. Thank you for making this point for me, but Michigan was left with a TON of talent. With that talent, they were VERY fortunate to win some of the games they won this year. I think the stars aligned perfectly for Hoke. A few good bounces with this talented team looks good for recruits that think you turned it around magically, then the recruits keep coming. Just like Kelly, I will hold out my opinions on Michigan for a few years. Rich Rod himself was builiding for this season, he thought 10 wins at a minimum if he stayed. Comparing ND's situation to Michigan's is apples and oranges. They were dealt completely different hands.

 

[BobD]

I 100% agree with Buster and Old Man Mike.

My two cents added:

1: I think Coach Kelly has us headed in the right direction. Next years schedule is really tough so I'm not sure how we'll look on paper at the end of the season, but we will be a much better team. 2013 is very exciting!

2: Our Irish will never contend for a National Championship with a Head Coach thats been in place for less than 3 or 4 years.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Ahhhh yes, the "Notre Dame will always be like this and we just have to accept it."

Crap I say! Turnover Tommy and his fumbling friends did this team and its great potential a gigantic disservice.

"The Season of the Unforced Turnover" is over. Pray that with coaching and maturity it won't be like this next season.

You didn't address the point he made. You may place the blame on the players but it was Kelly who continued to go with those players. What was the reason Kelly stubbornly played those players who were underperforming? Pride? "Next man in" mantra depended on coach's decision and not how you played.

I don't think anyone is serious about firing Kelly at this stage, but the honeymoon is over. Even the most tipsy kool-aid drinkers have sobered up to the potential reality of Kelly not being the man. Why? Because of your question, where is the sanity? Kelly knew that our weakest link this year was the QB position. His handling of the position was outright insane and was the primary reason for the team's disappointing performance.

How many of us were led to believe that Hendrix was going to play the majority of the snaps in the bowl game? I certainly did after what we saw against Stanford. He barely played. Why? The hackneyed definition of insanity is apt to describe Kelly's decision to play Rees as much as he did. What was the purpose of playing Rees as much as Kelly did? Where is the sanity?

 

[DillonHall]

I agree completely, OMM, on both of your posts. I have learned over the years that many "fans" don't really understand football. If people cannot see improvement in the Irish team, they honestly don't know the game. Sorry if that sounds like a personal shot to some people, but the improvement, as OMM hit upon, is immense. For the second post, I live in the heart of Michigan country, and know their personnel fairly well. Thank you for making this point for me, but Michigan was left with a TON of talent. With that talent, they were VERY fortunate to win some of the games they won this year. I think the stars aligned perfectly for Hoke. A few good bounces with this talented team looks good for recruits that think you turned it around magically, then the recruits keep coming. Just like Kelly, I will hold out my opinions on Michigan for a few years. Rich Rod himself was builiding for this season, he thought 10 wins at a minimum if he stayed. Comparing ND's situation to Michigan's is apples and oranges. They were dealt completely different hands.

Well I follow ND's personnel fairly well, and I know that we had plenty of talent when Weis left. If Michigan was so talented, why did ND win more games than them last year? And then this year, why did Michigan win 10 while ND won only 8 (even though ND had plenty of returning players from last year's team that outperformed Michigan)? Seems to me like Hoke did a hell of a job compared to Kelly...

 

[mgriff]

I don't see how anyone can say this season wasn't a disappointment. Underperformed and made critical errors all year long. There is no panacea for ND football, and we won't be finding one either. I would urge for perspective throughout the offseason and focusing on a realistic goal for next year, like 8-5.

 

[phork]

Please analyze the speed [everywhere] which Rodriguez left Hoke to work with, plus the most non-defendable QB threat in the nation, plus all-american anchors on both sides of the lines, and I'll share Hoke's amusement. The comment reminds me of crediting Willingham for that great Defense he inherited which won him ten or so straight games with no effort particularly on his part. Situations need to be evaluated as individualistically as they are, not with blanket generalizations. Hoke deserves the credit for utilizing a motherload of talent sitting around waiting for him. Good on him that he didn't ruin it. In his dreams he is probably praying nice things for Richrod for the presents left behind.

And thanks as always for your down-putting. Always appreciated in a "colleague".

Wait wait wait... Hoke a "ton" of talent? Outside of Denard on offense, and Martin and VanBergen on defense, there wasn't a whole lot there. Denard, indefensible? Really? ND for 3 quarters and Iowa would disagree with you. Shut down Denard and make him pass and you will win 9/10 times. That one time was the ND game. I am not putting anyone down, the truth just rubs you guys the wrong way.

I agree completely, OMM, on both of your posts. I have learned over the years that many "fans" don't really understand football. If people cannot see improvement in the Irish team, they honestly don't know the game. Sorry if that sounds like a personal shot to some people, but the improvement, as OMM hit upon, is immense. For the second post, I live in the heart of Michigan country, and know their personnel fairly well. Thank you for making this point for me, but Michigan was left with a TON of talent. With that talent, they were VERY fortunate to win some of the games they won this year. I think the stars aligned perfectly for Hoke. A few good bounces with this talented team looks good for recruits that think you turned it around magically, then the recruits keep coming. Just like Kelly, I will hold out my opinions on Michigan for a few years. Rich Rod himself was builiding for this season, he thought 10 wins at a minimum if he stayed. Comparing ND's situation to Michigan's is apples and oranges. They were dealt completely different hands.

Again, a ton of talent? Their secondary was non-existant. Are you also aware that WE were lucky to win a few of our games this year? Namely BC, Pitt, Wake? We were closer to missing a bowl game this year than most people realize. I love how you come here and say that since someone has a negative opinion they are a "fan" who "knows nothing about football." That is such a gross and ignorant statement. Comparing UM to ND is not apples to oranges. Both underwent coaching changes, I would argue ND had more talent from Weis than Hoke had with RichRod. Not to mention the player attrition that happened at UM. Yet here is Hoke 10-2, beat us again and is a top3 recruiting class. Here we are, losing to UM again, making more TOs than anyone in the country losing to a freshman FSU team with no secondary in the Champs Sports Bowl!

I apologize for not being Mr. Koolaid and GreenIrish glasses. While the team behind the scenes has improved, or apparently improved, the on field product is not very good. And that falls on Kelly. But some of you need a reality check here. Next year when we are 6-6 and not headed to a bowl game and recruiting starts to drop off some more then you can crawling back to me on your hands and knees and thank you for my knowledge bombs. Perhaps it is YOU who doesn't understand football, perhaps it is YOU who is drinking too much koolaid and are in a green haze drunken blindness. Take a step back and assess the situation and you'll see the truth.

Well I follow ND's personnel fairly well, and I know that we had plenty of talent when Weis left. If Michigan was so talented, why did ND win more games than them last year? And then this year, why did Michigan win 10 while ND won only 8 (even though ND had plenty of returning players from last year's team that outperformed Michigan)? Seems to me like Hoke did a hell of a job compared to Kelly...

Careful, you might be on the Negative Nancy list next bro.

I don't see how anyone can say this season wasn't a disappointment. Underperformed and made critical errors all year long. There is no panacea for ND football, and we won't be finding one either. I would urge for perspective throughout the offseason and focusing on a realistic goal for next year, like 8-5.

8-5 is too optimistic. But generally good post.

 

[irishtrain]

No need to panic as stated by many. No need to question Kelly or these coaches. In my opinion they have done well and started the trend to better prepared and really physical football players. This team needs a quarterback-plain/simple/to the point. I support Kelly as a damn fine coach but he has to re-evaluate his process on what QB he's giving the reins to and who its going to be. I saw what I wanted to see against FSU-equal athletes/equal team speed/equal aggressiveness/equal across the board in how I evaluate a team by what I see on TV. As I said they need a QB. Now they are staring a 6-6/7-5 record in the face next year because of the schedule. Its ok to play this grinding type schedule if you have the horses-it seems to me that they do except for a triggerman.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Maybe this is the new Notre dame football we will have to get used too. Good enough to have a winning reacond but cant over come it self. I think that Kelly which i don't want to see get fired has to sit back some and take a look at this season. There ways this season could have been more productive but he won't change his mind because of his PRIDE and that cost us a couple games this year.

Wow. Kelly should sit back and take a look at the season? Damn. Evaluate and make adjustments? If only he had thought of that before! Maybe you could write him and share your new insight!

One problem for ND fans (I don't think it's a problem on the inside, fortunately) is that a lot of us are astonishingly myopic. Just because the solutions aren't immediately apparent to you doesn't mean they don't exist. Every program's future is tied to potential manifesting itself. Unknowns are the nature of college football. That is true everywhere, not just at ND. Sure, if nobody improves and all of the elite prospects being brought into the program flop then we'll be in big trouble. For which program is that not the case? I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but following this team would be much more enjoyable if all of the Chicken Littles would keep their neurotic opinions confined to their mothers' basements.

 

[WaveDomer]

It's absolutely fair to say this season did not live up to expectation. There are at least 2 games more that should be in the win column. And it is absolutely fair to place some of that blame on Kelly. He is the HC. The buck stops with him and he certainly made mistakes this year. That's all part of the process. But there is also obvious improvement in key areas in the program. Will those improvements win out over time? We have to wait and see. But Kelly needs the opportunity to build/run his program. That means at least 5 years.

The thing people need to remember is that although many were excited for this year, we had 2 major question marks: QB and RB. We didn't know what was going to happen at QB and we feared being thin at RB. Well, we got both of those situations handed to us. A healthy Jonas probably helps ND beat FSU. And everyone is familiar with the mixed bag at QB. Things we were excited for: Cierre Wood and the defense. And both of those lived up to expectation, for the most part.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Well I follow ND's personnel fairly well, and I know that we had plenty of talent when Weis left. If Michigan was so talented, why did ND win more games than them last year? And then this year, why did Michigan win 10 while ND won only 8 (even though ND had plenty of returning players from last year's team that outperformed Michigan)? Seems to me like Hoke did a hell of a job compared to Kelly...

I'm not usually in the business of making excuses or justifying losses. Losses are losses and you don't get any points for being close. BUT, in the context of evaluating coaches, it seems to me that if you want to be fair you have to acknowledge that if one of a half dozen or so crazy plays go the other way during the ND/UM game, both coaches would have had 9 wins and ND's season would have been considered more successful than Michigan's. Unless you believe that any of the fluky plays that went against ND in that game were by design, it is either disengenuous or just flat-out wrong to draw any conclusions about what Kelly and Hoke are as coaches when the difference was so unbelievably narrow.

 

[Domer4ever]

I'm not usually in the business of making excuses or justifying losses. Losses are losses and you don't get any points for being close. BUT, in the context of evaluating coaches, it seems to me that if you want to be fair you have to acknowledge that if one of a half dozen or so crazy plays go the other way during the ND/UM game, both coaches would have had 9 wins and ND's season would have been considered more successful than Michigan's. Unless you believe that any of the fluky plays that went against ND in that game were by design, it is either disengenuous or just flat-out wrong to draw any conclusions about what Kelly and Hoke are as coaches when the difference was so unbelievably narrow.

Let's stop with the spin control. The bottom line is that Brady Hoke got the job done with a squad not expected to win more then half a dozen football games this year while Brian Kelly flopped with a team many expected to be in a BCS game this season. Now Hoke is reaping the benefits of that success in recruiting and setting his program up for long term relevance once again while Kelly is left holding an empty bag from a wasted season and staring down the barrel of the toughest schedule in years for 2012.

Kelly understood the importance this season held in the grand scheme of rebuilding the program and was precisely the reason he was willing to yank Christ in the season opener after one half of bad football a week after naming him his starting QB. His team bumbled and stumbled through the season losing to every good team they played while also turning in poor performances in several others. It was a completely uninspired effort from Kelly and the team this season and it's a shame because they could/should be in the position Brady Hoke has the Wolverines in and it's a missed opportunity difficult to tolerate as a fanbase.

You folks willing to find no fault in anything can keep choking on your prozac, but that is the truth.....sorry if it rubs you the wrong way.

 

[NYMIKE6]

And what have we learned from the comparison of ND and UM this season? It's a hell of a lot easier to win games when you have a play maker at quarterback.

 

[Rhode Irish]

That is the most tortured analysis I have ever seen. I'm not spinning anything. I was responding to someone else's comment. I don't think anyone is thrilled with 8-5, but at the same time I don't think there is much objectivity present among the "sky-is-falling" crowd. This team was pretty much who we thought they were, and the difference between 8-4 and 10-2 was a couple of fluky bounces. That isn't spin control. Going forward I don't think our record from 2011 matters as much as our roster in 2012 or 2013.

 

[DillonHall]

That is the most tortured analysis I have ever seen. I'm not spinning anything. I was responding to someone else's comment. I don't think anyone is thrilled with 8-5, but at the same time I don't think there is much objectivity present among the "sky-is-falling" crowd. This team was pretty much who we thought they were, and the difference between 8-4 and 10-2 was a couple of fluky bounces. That isn't spin control. Going forward I don't think our record from 2011 matters as much as our roster in 2012 or 2013.

You are spinning the truth because you are not mentioning that, with a couple of bad bounces, we could have finished 5-7 with losses to Pitt, BC, and Wake. And with the bowl game loss (which we wood not have made with that record), 5-8. That's objectivity.

 

[johnnykillz]

You are spinning the truth because you are not mentioning that, with a couple of bad bounces, we could have finished 5-7 with losses to Pitt, BC, and Wake. And with the bowl game loss (which we wood not have made with that record), 5-8. That's objectivity.

Well so much from a glass half full perspective.

Let's look at,it the other way.

Haven't you figured out, you're talking to the board diagnosed bipolar guy, RI?

Lol.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Ok, just point out the plays from the BC, Wake and Pitt games that were as fluky as the plays from USF and Michigan games and I'll agree with you. Just the three redzone fumbles in those games that were all recovered by the opposing team defies probability. And that is just scratching the surface of the crazy **** that happened in those games.

Your mistake is that you are treating all close games as being equal, and that just isn't the case. USF's and Michigan's wins this year against ND were all-time miracles. The same can't be said for our wins in the games you mentioned. Just to show that I'm fair, I am not arguing that the FSU loss was the result pf fluky plays, even though that game could have turned on one or two plays. The plays in the USF and UM games were uniquely bizarre. The only thing the USF, UM, BC, Pitt and Wake games have in common is that ND outplayed the other team in each of them. The only way the USF and UM games can be used in forecasting the future of this program is if you believe that we are cursed or there is some other reason why we should expect those types of plays to keep happening going forward. I think that is a ridiculous thing to believe, but to each their own.

 

[Domer4ever]

That is the most tortured analysis I have ever seen. I'm not spinning anything. I was responding to someone else's comment. I don't think anyone is thrilled with 8-5, but at the same time I don't think there is much objectivity present among the "sky-is-falling" crowd. This team was pretty much who we thought they were, and the difference between 8-4 and 10-2 was a couple of fluky bounces. That isn't spin control. Going forward I don't think our record from 2011 matters as much as our roster in 2012 or 2013.

Tortured?!? Let's stop with the dramatics and just call a spade a spade. Brian Kelly failed to capitalize on the same opportunity that Brady Hoke and Michigan took advantage of and cashed in on. Notre Dame choked as has been their MO for years. The end.

Also the 2011 record will have a direct effect on the rosters for 2012/2013 because of recruiting.