Weed & the American Family

[NDdomer2]

you know its a good thread when you bring OMM out from under his rock!

Thanks for your inputs Mike!

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'm 76. Those rocks are getting too heavy to move.

 

[phork]

FWIW: I surveyed the literature in a scanning sort of way, and it would not paint quite the optimistic vision of the usefulness of pot vs Parkinson's that many here seem to be citing. (I understand the multiple motivations, but with things as serious as Parkinson's maybe Science has a role.)

A few comments:
A). Parkinson's is complicated and itself not well understood. When you're dealing with an un-understood Brain illness, you MIGHT even be dealing with some diagnoses which aren't even of the same thing (i.e. a medical person diagnoses "Parkinson's" but the actual Brain neural degeneration or chemical imbalance producing similar symptomatic results have different basic causes --- Dopamine production, and its synaptic activity, is for instance governed by several sorts of mechanisms.)
B). Because of "A", different Brains are different, and they will differ in their responses to alien chemicals forced into them --- the body views all medicines initially as poisons. Some brains will get something "good" out of the ingestion; some may well not. The "goods" may be physical (chemical/hormonal, even healing assists) or may be psychological (placebo, wannabee "better", or just liking the THC high.)
C). Because of all that, any testing which doesn't really have anything solid to measure, and which counts on "self-reported" short term "feelings of improvement", are particularly weak testimonies --- almost as weak as the "I know a guy..." or You-Tube "proof" style arguments. Only about a handful (four by 2014) tests of THC vs Parkinson's have been done --- very mixed results from improvements to nothing at all. Unfortunately all of these tests were badly flawed, but the ones with blind test groups for comparison (the slightly better ones, therefore) were the least positive. The up side, if there is one, is that none of the tests showed obvious deleterious effects either.
D). A LOT more work needs to be done on this and the medical research community knows it. Anecdotal pseudo-evidence should not be viewed cavalierly --- it could easily turn out to be not only wrong, but significantly wrong for individual brains. We SHOULD go all-out in pursuit of whether this might work in more than a way analogous to drinking a lot of alcohol might temporarily make one feel better despite doing nothing to "cure" your real problems. Messing with brain chemistry is no joke or at least shouldn't be. Worse would be messing with brain chemistry in an already weakened brain, but saying instead "what-the-He!l let's just take a chance."


... of the easily found sites, Michael Fox's is probably the sanest on this topic that's also readable.

I agree with you 100%. But the endless videos of people with parkinsons or other disorders including kids with uncontrolable seizures who suddenly stop shaking and can speak or stop or reduce the seizures tremendously are hard to over look. This plant is probably one of the most useful things on this planet and not just from the medicinal side of things. Its a shame that its taken so long to be taken seriously.

 

[IrishLion]

What does General Mattis say about torture? "I don't need to torture a captive, just give me a pack of cigarettes and a few beers and we'll talk things out."

Imagine what world leaders could accomplish if they would start lighting up and laughing together.

 

[GowerND11]

I've never partaken, and don't have a desire to. However, I am all in on legalize, regulate, and tax.

My uncle was as straight laced as they come. Unfortunately for him, he suffered from kidney disease, and was on dialysis for 15 years! (truly an incredible feat itself) He was in chronic pain pretty much the entire times. In December, he finally decided he had enough and stopped his dialysis. Hospice was coming in, and they order a metric ton of opioids for his last week or two. Instead, he asked my cousin to get him some weed. He never smoked before, but she did. He smoked with her, and he was pain free for 4 hours. He laughed like he hadn't in years. He talked, he cracked jokes, he enjoyed life. Not one mention of pain in those 4 hours. 3 days later he passed peacefully.


I've also realized, as the veil has been removed from my eyes, just how many normal, respected, upstanding citizens smoke. I regularly golf with a group of middle aged to retired men including my dad. These guys include a retired athletic director for a local college, banker, business owners, factory managers, etc. Most all smoke on occasion. The lies spread when I was younger that all weed smokers are bad people make me laugh now.

 

[woolybug25]

P.S. to my knowledge it is not possible to overdose (in the normal clinical sense of that word) on "marijuana." Perhaps concentrated THC might reach the point of shutting down critical brain hormone levels, but probably not. A particular person MIGHT kill themselves by shrinking blood vessels and having a stroke, but that is not the normal definition of "overdose."

If you could overdose on weed, then it certainly would have happened to me at a Red Rocks concert back in '07. Thems just facts.

I always wince when people quibble (not that you are, OMM) about the "health side effects" associated with marijuana. Because first of all, any side effects (if you can call them that) are immaterial when weighed against the alternative medication. Nobody can tell me that taking an anti psychotic like Prozac for insomnia is better for you then taking a bite of an edible before bed. Nobody can convince me that putting a kid on Adderall (which is a amphetamine) is better for them then a canabis product with zero THC (i.e. no buzz) in it.

Secondly, it seems like a lot of people try to use serious conditions like Parkinsons and Cancer as the basis for it's medicinal use. While I do believe that there is a bevy of great research showing that it does help, as well as being a low risk option to try first, I think they are missing the boat here. We have a mental health epidemic in this country that has been exasperated by the pharmaceutical industry. There needs to be more push for it's simple use for anxiety, sleep disorders and digestive issues. Sure, those aren't as "sexy" as the killers like cancer. But they are serious issues plaguing our society that could easily be addressed by it's use. The use of pharmaceuticals has also led us to an opiate epidemic in our society as well, where a safe natural alternative is available. There needs to be better education on how to use them as well.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Phork: OK. With you on the optimism --- I MUCH prefer optimism. But remember that THC is a neural depressant and it's hardly surprising that some instances of neural "storms (excessive semi-chaotic firing) might be dampened enough in some brains to temporarily halt the seizure.

Again, don't misunderstand me, I WANT this to work --- badly (my best friend may have early Parkinsons) --- but an idling Rolls Royce can be stopped by judiciously hitting in with a sledge hammer, but not to its long term betterment. (( hope that I don't have to defend the analogy --- IE folks have terrible trouble with analogies.))

 

[Legacy]

Interesting that a court ruled it is legal for appropriately organized groups fall within Indiana's RFA.

In medical marijuana fight, Jeff Sessions is up against half the nation (al.com)

Alcohol and smoking are more addictive. Just one advantage that I shall note - legalization would be an important tool in fight the drug trade.

 

[Cackalacky]

I failed to articulate something... I'm just saying that it's so pronounced the other way round for me that it's hard for me to relate to those stories,... not that I don't believe them or don't understand. I've had a smoke allergy for a number of years so I couldn't even if I wanted to these days but about five years back a good buddy, who is a pot smoker, gave me one of those medical card chocolates... I was in a festive mood and thought, 'why not?? I'm at home, safe, with friends...." And that was the last rational thought I remember having before blacking out completely a few hours later. Last time I've touched anything aside from alcohol.

Ahhh sorry for misinterpreting. Yeah edibles are intense and hard to gauge. Smoking is much more easy to gauge and maintain.

 

[Cackalacky]

TILT:

IE is full of pot heads.

 

[Legacy]

Marijuana: Health effects of recreational and medical use

Health professionals need to weigh in on this.

 

[Legacy]

TILT:

IE is full of pot heads.

Double-blind study?

 

[Irish#1]

I don't usually partake, as my wife has a heart condition that prevents her from partaking (don't know the exact science, but probably something along the lines of what OMM was saying with the valve-restriction and whatnot), but our general group of friends generally partakes at the end of the night when we've been out, or been hanging around the fire pit and drinking some brews.

I'm an average, middle-class white dude in his mid-20's, and my friends are the same demographic. We all have jobs of varying degrees of success, but we all make pretty good money, and I would say that they are generally highly-motivated individuals, and some of the nicest people I've met, and they all support themselves and/or their significant others.

It just so happens that they partake of some marijuana whenever the fire pit is lit, or whenever we're back on the front porch after the soccer match or baseball game we went to as a group. None of them are lazy. None of them were trouble makers in high school or college. A few come from wealthy families and now support themselves.

Everything we learned about weed in DARE in 5th grade was pretty much false/wrong.

As Wooly and LAX mentioned earlier, the only problem with weed is that you are forced into associations in trying to procure it that you shouldn't be... but even THAT isn't totally correct, depending on where you're from. It's not legal in Ohio or Kentucky, and there are certainly some shady places you can go in the Greater Cincinnati area to land some trees, but you are far more likely to find an average dude/woman selling it that doesn't pose a risk to anyone, and won't try to also sell you crack or heroine.

Sounds like you're trying to justify your smoking. No need we won't judge. Damn pot head.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Legacy's article link from the Harvard site seemed a conservative but generally accurate re-telling of much which has been already mentioned here. (Up to the near-end comment regarding "toxic overdose" anyway, which seemed undefined as to meaning and a bit fear-mongering --- albeit in a good spirit as she was talking about not leaving things looking like cookies and candy lying about if there are little kids in the house.)

By the way "I am not a medical professional but did stay at a Holiday Inn --- wait a minute, I didn't do that either. "

 

[NDFAN420]

smoke daily w/ my wife....relaxes me...makes sex even better...i only smoke after kids head to bed at night during the week and then i love smoking on weekends before doing outdoor work, hiking etc

really feels like an enhancement to whatever im doing but that's me

I have friends that are convinced that the Seinfeld "Sex and Pastrami" theme was a thinly veiled play on sex and weed. If we legalize all of these drugs how are we going to continue to secretly fund our covert activities overseas? Taking over 90% of the world's opium helps I guess.

There's a region in Kazakhstan called "Chuy" where the plant may have originated. In order to make hash they'll still send naked people through the fields to gather the resin to scrape off of their bodies. I've heard that it's of very high quality. So I've heard...

 

[NDdomer2]

Interesting that a court ruled it is legal for appropriately organized groups fall within Indiana's RFA.

In medical marijuana fight, Jeff Sessions is up against half the nation (al.com)

Alcohol and smoking are more addictive. Just one advantage that I shall note - legalization would be an important tool in fight the drug trade.

"Our nation needs to say clearly once again that using drugs is bad," Sessions said to law enforcement officials last month

Says a guy who probably has a plastic daily pill organizer. "Drugs" are a pretty loose term which the government has regulated for their benefit for years. Had man made marijuana it'd be be on TV every commercial break saying "ask your Dr. If marijuana is right for you"

 

[NDdomer2]

Marijuana: Health effects of recreational and medical use

Health professionals need to weigh in on this.

Can't believe this was an MD written article. Seems like a high school summary of a class research paper. Gee thanks Harvard MD for your vast knowledge and input.

 

[Legacy]

Legacy's article link from the Harvard site seemed a conservative but generally accurate re-telling of much which has been already mentioned here. (Up to the near-end comment regarding "toxic overdose" anyway, which seemed undefined as to meaning and a bit fear-mongering --- albeit in a good spirit as she was talking about not leaving things looking like cookies and candy lying about if there are little kids in the house.)

By the way "I am not a medical professional but did stay at a Holiday Inn --- wait a minute, I didn't do that either. "

Risking a rehash, here's

The Health Effects of Cannabis and Cannabinoids: The Current State of Evidence and Recommendations for Research (National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine)

In one of the most comprehensive studies of recent research on the health effects of recreational and therapeutic cannabis use, a new report from the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine offers a rigorous review of relevant scientific research published since 1999. This report summarizes the current state of evidence regarding what is known about the health impacts of cannabis and cannabis-derived products, including effects related to therapeutic uses of cannabis and potential health risks related to certain cancers, diseases, mental health disorders, and injuries. Areas in need of additional research and current barriers to conducting cannabis research are also covered in this comprehensive report.

 

[NDdomer2]

added another 4 yahoo articles from the series including one about mother-to-bes.

really sucks the links wont auto change to the article titles.

also - the interview with Colorado Governor is a great perspective.

 

[Rocket89]

Smoked pretty regularly for 10+ years starting in college. After college I'd stop for a month or two then start up again depending on how available the weed was for me.

Like a few have mentioned, the opportunity to have to associate with some seedy people (at best) is the worst part, especially living in a not-always-safe city. I didn't realize until much later but all those years I was subconsciously always buying a step or two removed from anyone who was a heavy dealer. Hence, the stopping and starting up again. If I couldn't casually get something from a friend who knew a guy who got some from a guy I didn't bother.

Then again, esp in college part of the fun was planning our sessions, finding new places to smoke, and feeling like we were being stealth and savvy. Builds this strange camaraderie.

 

[Rocket89]

What are everyone's favorite ways to smoke?

Blunt- All day, my favorite. Love the smaller flavored wraps.
Pipe- Tough to beat the economy most of the time.
Bong- Depends on the bong, but still great.
....
....
Joint- Waste too much weed for too little impact.

Never tried edibles (actually like the process, time, etc. of smoking) but I have some tremendous gravity bong stories.

 

[NDdomer2]

Smoked pretty regularly for 10+ years starting in college. After college I'd stop for a month or two then start up again depending on how available the weed was for me.

Like a few have mentioned, the opportunity to have to associate with some seedy people (at best) is the worst part, especially living in a not-always-safe city. I didn't realize until much later but all those years I was subconsciously always buying a step or two removed from anyone who was a heavy dealer. Hence, the stopping and starting up again. If I couldn't casually get something from a friend who knew a guy who got some from a guy I didn't bother.

Then again, esp in college part of the fun was planning our sessions, finding new places to smoke, and feeling like we were being stealth and savvy. Builds this strange camaraderie.

This is something that i look back at how we got our weed in high school and realize we were so stupid. The people we were associating with that we never really knew. Now that I am much older I only buy from one guy who is my cousin and has a known regular source for his marijuana. If he is out, then i wait.

Where back then it was call another guy, call someone he knows, call anyone, meet you anywhere.

Legal shops make marijuana purchasing and usage a much much safer transaction.

 

[NDdomer2]

What are everyone's favorite ways to smoke?

Blunt- All day, my favorite. Love the smaller flavored wraps.
Pipe- Tough to beat the economy most of the time.
Bong- Depends on the bong, but still great.
....
....
Joint- Waste too much weed for too little impact.

Never tried edibles (actually like the process, time, etc. of smoking) but I have some tremendous gravity bong stories.

blunt will always be #1 but hard to do for an adult solo smoker, def a waste, not worth taking a coupel puffs then putting it out.

My go to is a simple one hitter. one or two and your good for hour or 2 on average. not wasteful and easy to hide/travel with.

bong rips are always a good time and usually get busted out on days like tomorrow.

my favorite weekend morning high is a small bubbler. great effecgive hits, really enhances the taste. can set your weekend day off for a solid 3+ hour high.

sucks to hear you dont like joints. a solid marijuana cigarette with a buddy or two can really do the trick for before a whole evening of bar going.

 

[Cackalacky]

What are everyone's favorite ways to smoke?

Blunt- All day, my favorite. Love the smaller flavored wraps.
Pipe- Tough to beat the economy most of the time.
Bong- Depends on the bong, but still great.
....
....
Joint- Waste too much weed for too little impact.

Never tried edibles (actually like the process, time, etc. of smoking) but I have some tremendous gravity bong stories.

Mine was always a bong when i was staying put. A deep one hitter was my preferred.

I lucked out for a period of about 4 years I had regular access to hash oil. I would get a film container full of it and it would last over three months. You could do so much with the oil but I mostly just added it on top of the grass and hit that together. Wonderful.

 

[Cackalacky]

blunt will always be #1 but hard to do for an adult solo smoker, def a waste, not worth taking a coupel puffs then putting it out.

My go to is a simple one hitter. one or two and your good for hour or 2 on average. not wasteful and easy to hide/travel with.

bong rips are always a good time and usually get busted out on days like tomorrow.

my favorite weekend morning high is a small bubbler. great effecgive hits, really enhances the taste. can set your weekend day off for a solid 3+ hour high.

sucks to hear you dont like joints. a solid marijuana cigarette with a buddy or two can really do the trick for before a whole evening of bar going.

I always felt j's were a positive social bonding thing. Very positive experience in a group. I rarely if ever rolled a single j for me.

 

[Rocket89]

sucks to hear you dont like joints. a solid marijuana cigarette with a buddy or two can really do the trick for before a whole evening of bar going.

I mean, I like joints when it gets down to it, LOL. That situation is perfect, that's true.

I just sucked at rolling tight ones, which made it a no-go when solo, and enjoy the longer smoking sessions with other ways when around friends.

 

[woolybug25]

What are everyone's favorite ways to smoke?

Blunt- All day, my favorite. Love the smaller flavored wraps.
Pipe- Tough to beat the economy most of the time.
Bong- Depends on the bong, but still great.
....
....
Joint- Waste too much weed for too little impact.

Never tried edibles (actually like the process, time, etc. of smoking) but I have some tremendous gravity bong stories.

1) Joint. I roll a mean one and can make them in any size.
2) Vape pen. Simple, easy
3) Bowl. Fast and gets the job done.
4) Edible. Easy and concealable.

Others I like:
- VOLCANO
- Bongs
*Both get me too high for regular use. But lots of fun otherwise.

Do not like:
- Blunts. They are gross and are for poors.

I prefer sativa heavy hybrids for regular life and indicas for vegging out to a movie.

 

[NDdomer2]

I mean, I like joints when it gets down to it, LOL. That situation is perfect, that's true.

I just sucked at rolling tight ones, which made it a no-go when solo, and enjoy the longer smoking sessions with other ways when around friends.

One of the best investments I've ever made:

Always a perfect J no matter how much u put in

 

[GATTACA!]

Whenever this discussion pops up i'm always reminded of one of my favorite Daniel Tosh bits.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yHNvbt1eEJs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I have never smoked weed and have no desire to, but I'm all for legalizing and regulating it. I find it hilarious that it's treated like meth while millions smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol, both of which actually do kill people. The only thing about weed that kills people are the places and means we make individuals go to to acquire it. Much like prostitution, the government will never stop people from smoking. They can make it a hell of a lot more safe though if they would stop letting big pharma lobbyists tell them what to do.

 

[greyhammer90]

I can understand people not being into drugs. I can understand people not being into alcohol. It's hard for me to understand people who drink regularly but say they aren't at all interested in weed and wouldn't try it even if it was legal. Weed, especially from a vape, is as close to a perfect recreational drug there is. I always think of this scene (sorry can't embed from phone):

https://youtu.be/7npWDyxB7d8