Was Tocqueville Right?

Ndaccountant

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I was taking a dump and reading a mag where it listed out some guy's favorite books. One was Tocqueville's Democracy in America. Read years prior where I didn't have the life experiences to appreciate what he was saying, but after the last 6 years or so makes me believe he was spot on as to what was Democracy's downfall. Was he right? Me thinks so.

“The social power is constantly increasing its prerogatives; it is becoming more centralized, more enterprising, more absolute, and more widespread. The citizens are perpetually falling under the control of the public administration. They are led insensibly, and perhaps against their will, daily to give up fresh portions of their individual independence to the government, and those same men who from time to time have upset a throne and trampled kings beneath their feet bend without resistance to the slightest wishes of some clerk.”

Regarding a ruling class that becomes removed from society:

“I see an innumerable multitude of men, alike and equal, constantly circling around in pursuit of the petty and banal pleasures with which they glut their souls. Each of them, withdrawn into himself, is almost unaware of the fate of the rest. Mankind, for him, consists in his children and his personal friends. As for the rest of his fellow citizens, they are near enough, but he does not notice them. He touches them but feels nothing. He exists in and for himself, and though he still may have a family, one can at least say that he has not got a fatherland.

Over this kind of man stands an immense, protective power which is alone responsible for securing their enjoyment and watching over their fate. That power is absolute, thoughtful of detail, orderly, provident, and gentle. It would resemble parental authority if, father-like, it tried to prepare its charges for a man’s life, but on the contrary, it only tries to keep them in perpetual childhood. It likes to see the citizens enjoy themselves, provided that they think of nothing but enjoyment. It gladly works for their happiness but wants to be sole agent and judge of it. It provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, makes rules for their testaments, and divides their inheritances. Why should it not entirely relieve them from the trouble of thinking and all the cares of living?

Thus it daily makes the exercise of free choice less useful and rarer, restricts the activity of free will within a narrower compass, and little by little robs each citizen of the proper use of his own faculties. Equality has prepared men for all this, predisposing them to endure it and often even regard it as beneficial.

Having thus taken each citizen in turn in its powerful grasp and shaped men to its will, government then extends its embrace to include the whole of society. It covers the whole of social life with a network of petty, complicated rules that are both minute and uniform, through which even men of the greatest originality and the most vigorous temperament cannot force their heads above the crowd. It does not break men’s will, but softens, bends, and guides it; it seldom enjoins, but often inhibits, action; it does not destroy anything, but prevents much being born; it is not at all tyrannical, but it hinders, restrains, enervates, stifles, and stultifies so much that in the end each nation is no more than a flock of timid and hardworking animals with the government as its shepherd.”

The omnipresence and apparent gentleness of this new tyranny were two of its most significant features. Unlike despotisms of old, it avoided violence and obvious brutality. But even though mild and benign, it, too, labored incessantly to render entire populations docile; it, too, enervated first individuals and then the entire nation. In the face of political upheavals the public bureaucracy would quietly continue to gather power and subjugate the nation.
 
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Bluto

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If you are implying that he was referring to corporations and the concentration of power due to inequitable wealth distribution then that sounds about right. Let's face it corporations and the super wealthy (people like the Koch brothers) are the biggest influences on government and governmental policy right now. If government policy is screwed up then those two groups played a big part in screwin it up and along with the country.
 

connor_in

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HAHAHAHAHA

I love it...What other heavy duty college football site has threads on Tocqueville's Democracy in America
 

Ndaccountant

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HAHAHAHAHA

I love it...What other heavy duty college football site has threads on Tocqueville's Democracy in America

Balance in life is important.......or least that is what I have been told every now and again.
 

irishog77

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One little excerpt from Democracy in America is tough to comment on (but cool of you to bring it up regardless). Pretty sure de Tocqueville took the Platonic approach and believed in the benefits of a Master/Slave relationship. So to break Bluto's heart, I doubt he was referring to people like the Koch brothers.
 

Ndaccountant

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One little excerpt from Democracy in America is tough to comment on (but cool of you to bring it up regardless). Pretty sure de Tocqueville took the Platonic approach and believed in the benefits of a Master/Slave relationship. So to break Bluto's heart, I doubt he was referring to people like the Koch brothers.

Well, he did believe that inequality was good, as long as it was adequatly briken up at death. So yes, he would have probably said the koch brothers were good for america.
 

Whiskeyjack

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If you are implying that he was referring to corporations and the concentration of power due to inequitable wealth distribution then that sounds about right. Let's face it corporations and the super wealthy (people like the Koch brothers) are the biggest influences on government and governmental policy right now. If government policy is screwed up then those two groups played a big part in screwin it up and along with the country.

"Paternal authority" which prefers to keep its citizenry in "perpetual childhood" sounds like the Koch brothers to you?

Partisanship is a mental disability. I'm confident you can overcome this, Bluto.
 

irishpat183

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If you are implying that he was referring to corporations and the concentration of power due to inequitable wealth distribution then that sounds about right. Let's face it corporations and the super wealthy (people like the Koch brothers) are the biggest influences on government and governmental policy right now. If government policy is screwed up then those two groups played a big part in screwin it up and along with the country.

The liberal whipping boys, the Koch brothers......

Meanwhile, at the Soros house......

"Paternal authority" which prefers to keep its citizenry in "perpetual childhood" sounds like the Koch brothers to you?

Partisanship is a mental disability. I'm confident you can overcome this, Bluto.

Individual Patriots. The party of ME!!!

That's the way to go.

And I dont' believe in "equality".

All men where not created equal. And it has nothing to do with race.

All men should be treated equal by our laws and government, but all men are not equal.
 
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95NDAlumNM

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Over this kind of man stands an immense, protective power which is alone responsible for securing their enjoyment and watching over their fate. That power is absolute, thoughtful of detail, orderly, provident, and gentle. It would resemble parental authority if, father-like, it tried to prepare its charges for a man’s life, but on the contrary, it only tries to keep them in perpetual childhood. It likes to see the citizens enjoy themselves, provided that they think of nothing but enjoyment. It gladly works for their happiness but wants to be sole agent and judge of it. It provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, makes rules for their testaments, and divides their inheritances. Why should it not entirely relieve them from the trouble of thinking and all the cares of living?

Thus it daily makes the exercise of free choice less useful and rarer, restricts the activity of free will within a narrower compass, and little by little robs each citizen of the proper use of his own faculties. Equality has prepared men for all this, predisposing them to endure it and often even regard it as beneficial.


The bolded part definetely seems like the Republicans and the rich. Keep the masses stupid, and ignorant and do what you want.
 

mgriff

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The liberal whipping boys, the Koch brothers......

Meanwhile, at the Soros house......



Individual Patriots. The party of ME!!!

That's the way to go.

And I dont' believe in "equality".

All men where not created equal. And it has nothing to do with race.

All men should be treated equal by our laws and government, but all men are not equal.

I wouldn't say the party of me but there is some strong evidence that the left/right paradigm is merely disagreement on some inflammatory issues designed to divide and conquer the populace by placing them at odds against each other. It's been highly effective as our monetary, economic, and foreign policy differs little from administration to administration. Romney is praising Obama for the bailouts, he pushed a similar healthcare mandate in Mass. and they are actually rather alike on a multitude of issues. Obama has continued the Patriot Act and other less savory aspects of Bush which he was against on the campaign trail. The executive power and the power of government has been growing with each presidential administration, regardless of party, o I have to think there is at least some credence to what Whiskey is saying. Your opinion may certainly differ.
 

irishog77

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Faux-intellectual gibberish.

Yep. That de Tocqueville dude was just an idiot talking head. We should probably burn his book to make sure nobody ever makes the mistake of using his work of observation based upon classical scholarly learning ever again.
 

Rhode Irish

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Not in favor of burning anything, but I don't find him compelling at all. Not everything written by every philosopher is worth the paper that it's printed on. I also don't think he should be stricken from the curriculum - I just don't think much of what he believed has value, at least not with respect to the world we are currently living in.
 

irishpat183

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Over this kind of man stands an immense, protective power which is alone responsible for securing their enjoyment and watching over their fate. That power is absolute, thoughtful of detail, orderly, provident, and gentle. It would resemble parental authority if, father-like, it tried to prepare its charges for a man’s life, but on the contrary, it only tries to keep them in perpetual childhood. It likes to see the citizens enjoy themselves, provided that they think of nothing but enjoyment. It gladly works for their happiness but wants to be sole agent and judge of it. It provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, makes rules for their testaments, and divides their inheritances. Why should it not entirely relieve them from the trouble of thinking and all the cares of living?

Thus it daily makes the exercise of free choice less useful and rarer, restricts the activity of free will within a narrower compass, and little by little robs each citizen of the proper use of his own faculties. Equality has prepared men for all this, predisposing them to endure it and often even regard it as beneficial.


The bolded part definetely seems like the Republicans and the rich. Keep the masses stupid, and ignorant and do what you want.

You can keep the masses stupid and ignorant without being rich....And you assume that democrats aren't backed by the rich.
 

95NDAlumNM

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You can keep the masses stupid and ignorant without being rich....And you assume that democrats aren't backed by the rich.

You are right. The Republicans have found all kinds of ways to keep them masses stupid and ignorant. Reps.
 

irishpat183

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And keep in mind that one of Obama's top campaign contributors was none other than Goldman Sachs....

But he's for the "middle class"....right??

They're all crooks.
 
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