Virginia Postgame

[pumpdog20]

This is what it looked like to me. Two guys in motion. But obviously it wasnt.

Either way you have to love our special teams coordinators the past two seasons.
It’s been a blessing after suffering during the BK days.

Seems like special teams has kinda sucked this year minus the punt block team.

Or at minimum the punter and kickers hav3 been bad

 

[ThePiombino]

Seems like special teams has kinda sucked this year minus the punt block team.

Or at minimum the punter and kickers hav3 been bad

I thought Jeter was as-advertised prior to the injury. Rendell has been a huge disappointment tho. Clearly he's capable of booming the ball as we saw this past Saturday, but he's also equally (if not more) likely to offer up a dud.

 

[pumpdog20]

Just think... some of the current starters of the #1 defense in the land would have been the backups that would have helped prevent that last touchdown.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Darth Marcus

Somebody gotta photoshop those laser beam eyes on MFMF

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The officiating in this game needs to be investigated. I try not to get up in arms about refs, but when it's so blatantly obvious, something needs to be done.

I also don't understand why there is a rule on kickoff that says you can't advance a fumble. What is that all about?

And can someone explain to me what happened with the botched fair catch that resulted in UVA getting the ball? In real time, it appeared to be a fumbled catch, but then I hear TV commentary saying the receiving team is supposed to be able to gather in that ball while in the air. Did I hear that correctly? That because the ball bounced in the air versus hitting the ground, it's not technically a live ball yet... or something like that?

Either way, this game was riddled with crazy officiating, from a rules standpoint as well as the interpretation and enforcement of said rules. And this micromanagement is one reason why people are getting so fed up with the sport.

Aside from all of that, ND still cruised. I would've liked to see the offense click better. OL played bad at times, great at others. Riley continues to not see the open receivers. It feels like nitpicking in a solid win, but my mindset is focused on winning and advancing in the playoffs. You can't miss wide open guys in the redzone during those games and expect to win. I hope they get that figured out somehow.

I love this defense. Can they make a statue for Golden? Half kidding.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

The officiating in this game needs to be investigated. I try not to get up in arms about refs, but when it's so blatantly obvious, something needs to be done.

I also don't understand why there is a rule on kickoff that says you can't advance a fumble. What is that all about?

And can someone explain to me what happened with the botched fair catch that resulted in UVA getting the ball? In real time, it appeared to be a fumbled catch, but then I hear TV commentary saying the receiving team is supposed to be able to gather in that ball while in the air. Did I hear that correctly? That because the ball bounced in the air versus hitting the ground, it's not technically a live ball yet... or something like that?

Either way, this game was riddled with crazy officiating, from a rules standpoint as well as the interpretation and enforcement of said rules. And this micromanagement is one reason why people are getting so fed up with the sport.

Aside from all of that, ND still cruised. I would've liked to see the offense click better. OL played bad at times, great at others. Riley continues to not see the open receivers. It feels like nitpicking in a solid win, but my mindset is focused on winning and advancing in the playoffs. You can't miss wide open guys in the redzone during those games and expect to win. I hope they get that figured out somehow.

I love this defense. Can they make a statue for Golden? Half kidding.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I already read this. What does this have to do with my post?

 

[NDohio]

Chris Wilson's write-up

1) In most situations, if Notre Dame took a touchdown lead two minutes into a game, led 28-0 at halftime and also scored first coming out of the break there wouldn’t be any complaints. For numerous reasons — officiating malfeasance, a series of clunky offensive drives early, a couple of empty possessions late that would have goosed the final margin, an opposing coach who was annoyingly try-hardy with the game out of reach — this wasn’t as joyous as many previous senior send offs, but it was still a solid victory that keeps the Irish on pace for all of their goals.

Eighth straight win overall for Marcus Freeman’s team as well as the eighth straight win on Senior Day, an important tradition to maintain because it allows you to celebrate your team while also avoiding the tiny issue of a devastating November home defeat. Choppy at times but any time you’re nitpicking three-touchdown wins that were never in doubt in the second half your favorite team is in a good place.

2) The Fighting Irish were announced last week as a semifinalist for the Joe Moore Award, which honors the best offensive line in the country. Saturday was a good reminder that while Joe Rudolph and Mike Denbrock have performed minor miracles so far this season there is still plenty of work to be done. Way too many penalties, way too many third-and-longs (Notre Dame converted a single third down the entire afternoon), way too many early three-and-outs but eventually things settled down and the Irish ended up over six yards per snap and right around median success rate. Not a day to write home about outside of Jeremiyah Love continuing to make history (his 76-yarder was a work of art) but not an atrocious one, either.

In the first half, Riley Leonard was 16 for 20 (80%) for 140 yards (seven per attempt, fine but not notable) and three touchdowns. He continues to appear more comfortable scanning downfield during/after scrambling which should bode well going forward. In the negative column he threw a dumb second-half interception and there wasn’t an explosive run, something we’ve perhaps come to take for granted. The throw to Jayden Harrison won’t count because of the penalty but it was perhaps his best of the season.

Two straight weeks of good Harrison and as Denbrock works to scheme open shot plays I can think of worse targets. Some more positive trend lines for Mitchell Evans and if he puts his stamp on either of these final two games (or God willing, both) that would be great. Curious to see how the Jayden Thomas/Beaux Collins snap allotment goes over these final two because Collins feels underwater. There was a lot of garbage time but consider me not totally on board with Aneyas Williams getting more snaps and touches than Price.

One important note on the topic of putting up some bonus scores/style points/etc. is that there were not a ton of possessions in the second half after so many in the first. Following Virginia’s first bullshit touchdown after officials allowed a non-catch, it was 35-7 and Notre Dame got the ball with 7:56 remaining in the third quarter. They ran out the rest of the clock, Leonard failing to connect with Evans at the start of the fourth. You want a score, obviously, but killing eight minutes of second-half clock with a four-touchdown lead is solid work.

Notre Dame then gets the ball back with 12:12 remaining and goes on a 12-play drive that drains another six minutes before the missed field goal. The rest of the game was the Cavaliers’ try-hard drive against backups for their second spurious score and a kneel down. The first-half woes and general sloppiness should not be ignored but they found a nice groove in the second half that unfortunately didn’t yield any points.

3) “Anthony Colandrea against an Al Golden defense” went about as I expected, with the first half including four three-and-outs followed by three consecutive interceptions. It’s been such a gift to watch Xavier Watts play football and I appreciate that he is passing along so many tricks of the trade to Adon Shuler. Two good games in a row from Christian Gray, who has been active, vocal and seemingly healthier post-bye. (Remember he missed the Louisville game with a shoulder injury.) Loved seeing Jack Kiser getting a sack on his Senior Day in which he set a new record for games in a Notre Dame football uniform. Feels like just yesterday the message boards were complaining about Clark Lea offering a scholarship to some kid from the middle-of-nowhere Indiana who wouldn’t be able to cut it in blue and gold.

Special shoutout to Donovan Hinish, who stepped in for Howard Cross and was making plays from the jump. Neither Florida State nor Virginia are putting forth the most imposing interior lines, but if Hinish can play like this the rest of the way as the competition picks up that bodes well not just for this season but for seasons yet to come. Additionally, it was great to see Jordan Clark and Rod Heard continuing to fly around out there. We’re still figuring out the optimal transfer portal approach but acquiring a bunch of salty veteran defensive backs who may not be no-brainer draft picks but can still fill in all across your scheme seems like a good use of resources each year.

The first-half Cavaliers offense was basically as bad as you can be in a football game, whether it was running or passing the ball. In the second half, they got a gift from the officials on their lone explosive passing play and then put on a march against the backups. Notre Dame will face much better offenses the next two games and hopefully in a game after that but another great effort from Golden’s crew.

4) 64-yard punt from James Rendell!! His best day in an Irish uniform and if this is the new normal for however many games are left we’ll take it. My only question about the placekicking game is whether it’s been so disastrous that it’s a little too obvious it’ll cost Notre Dame in these final two games. It’s Chekhov’s gun, not Chekhov’s burning warning pyre on a hill accompanied by a siren, so does there need to be some subtlety? We’ll find out.

A crime was committed taking the incredible fake punt away, but at least it helped spark the crowd and got the sideline fired up to finish the job before the half. Also the muffed fair catch was adjudicated incorrectly. I wish I could claim a conspiracy against Notre Dame because that would be fun and sexy but unfortunately officiating is this bad everywhere in nearly every game.

The place-kicking issues have resulted in Freeman mostly just going for it on fourth down, which I appreciate, as this team continues to convert them at a great clip. A couple in the first quarter where he could have potentially gone for it and punted (fourth and nine on the UVA 45, fourth and three on the Notre Dame 44) but I’m pleased to say the game management report card remains strong.

5) Winning Is Hard Round Up: Sometimes a game occurs that really underscores what we’re doing with this section and the Louisville Cardinals delivered. As a 20-point favorite at Stanford, the visitors had a 35-21 fourth quarter lead and all seemed fine. But the Cardinal (no s) were able to tie it up and the Cardinals (with an s) marched into opponent territory and had the ball for a fourth down attempt with 11 seconds remaining.

Tyler Shough took a failed shot at the end zone and Stanford got the ball with five seconds remaining. They seemed content to go to overtime, throwing a pass behind the line of scrimmage. Except Louisville got an unsportsmanlike conduct flag on the play, giving Stanford a shot at a 57-yard field goal. And then Louisville jumped offsides, making it a 52-yard field goal attempt. There was no overtime.

Is it bad for Notre Dame’s resume to lose a Top 25 win? Yes. Is it not ideal for the dark energy of Palo Alto to again be unleashed, a Hellmouth almost certainly simmering under the malevolent campus? Also yes. Is it a very funny thing to happen to Louisville? 10000%. Treat yourself and watch the final sequence here.

That took a while so we’ll speed through (relatively) the rest. Oregon trailed going into the fourth quarter at Wisconsin, who still isn’t guaranteed to make a bowl. BYU’s magic finally ran out, unable to convert another late score and falling at home to Kansas. Tennessee got out to a 10-0 lead in Athens but didn’t do much from there, losing by two touchdowns. Pittsburgh and Missouri could not hold late leads against Clemson and South Carolina, respectively, falling in heartbreaking fashion. (Pittsburgh at Louisville on Saturday -- losing fanbase going to be feeling some feelings.) SMU had a struggle with Boston College at home.

Texas spent the day in the muck at Arkansas and Ohio State trailed Northwestern in the second quarter. Kansas State let Arizona State jump out to a 24-0 lead in Manhattan and couldn’t rally. Washington State, a dark horse at-large candidate for the playoff, lost a thriller at New Mexico*. Boise State was down to San Jose State in the second half before pulling away. Navy got shut out at home by Tulane. It says here LSU lost at Florida for their third straight defeat and now have to deal with Diego Pavia and the Commodores? Eesh, good luck, sounds annoying.

* Bronco Mendenhall is doing good work with the Lobos, who can get their sixth win at Hawaii. New Mexico quarterback Devon Dampier is having a crazy season, throwing for nearly 2600 yards to go with 12 touchdowns (and 12 picks!) while running for another 1,065 and 16 more scores.

UMass missed a field goal at the end of regulation and an extra point in overtime to allow Liberty to escape. USC defeated Nebraska to reach bowl eligibility, showing some signs of life after the quarterback change I do not appreciate. (The Huskers started the season 5-1 and are still looking for bowl eligibility. They’ve lost nine straight games in which they could have clinched a bowl, one of the wildest stats I’ve seen.) West Virginia lost at home to Baylor and Dave Aranda is officially keeping his job. Neal Brown, who knows. Maryland got handled at home by Rutgers and their upset win over the Trojans feels like a long time ago.

6) That second half wasn’t a bacchanal for Irish fans with the failure to crack 40 points and annoying persistence of the visitors but I don’t suspect it’s going to have much of a negative effect on playoff ranking if it has any at all. 28-0 at the half followed by 100% postgame win expectancy and three-touchdown margin at the end along with a dearth of any headlines using words like “escape” or “survive” is a fine way to exit a weekend where multiple top ten teams lost. Check the box and move on.

Two very important boxes that need checking remain. The gap between making the playoff field or not remains so stark for how we evaluate this season that Freeman and company simply must finish this job away from home. I imagine focus shouldn’t be a problem against a ranked, undefeated team at night at Yankee Stadium. Army is a quality team and the Irish will have to play a clean game but if you put together an all-star team drawn from the Black Knights’ nine opponents and lined them up against Notre Dame it would be a massacre. The hope is this goes like the Navy game, with the offense playing well and the defense being so far above and beyond anything the academy opponent has seen they’re overwhelmed into making too many mistakes.

We’ll reconvene next week, hopefully with Notre Dame on the precipice of absolution and achieving our preseason goal. [Also need to get some more hoops talk in, nice win by Micah Shrewsberry’s lads at Georgetown and the best backcourt in the country continues to do their thing (see below).] Until then, take care of yourselves and each other.

 

[Henges24]

Seems like special teams has kinda sucked this year minus the punt block team.

Or at minimum the punter and kickers hav3 been bad

Oh yeah, no doubt. Our kicking specialist in particular have been bad.

 

[IrishSpartan]

Honestly the muffed punt was a worse call than the fake punt. While a muff is still in the air after a fair catch no can touch it outside of the returner until it hits the ground. Should have been ND’s ball.

 

[PANDFAN]

I realize he hasn’t had the # of touches as Greathouse but I can’t recall any blatant drops either. In fact, he’s usually had to leave his feet to secure the pass. I love Greathouse but he and the rest of the WR corps have had some inexcusable drops. I know we all get frustrated w/ RL’s passing acumen but the WR corps bears some blame, too.

Niu dropped a bomb in late 4th qtr ....

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Honestly the muffed punt was a worse call than the fake punt. While a muff is still in the air after a fair catch no can touch it outside of the returner until it hits the ground. Should have been ND’s ball.

That's what I thought I heard on the broadcast as well. How could the refs be THAT bad to blow that many calls against ND in one single game is beyond me and warrants further investigation. These weren't subjective calls. They blatantly overruled their own rule book either by extreme incompetence or by corruption. Neither should be tolerated.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Oregon v Wisconsin, Pitt v Clemson, Tennessee v UGA were all poorly officiated this past weekend as well.

These crews are human and there really isn't much more to say about it other than that. Every fanbase in every sport thinks the referees are out to get them. It doesn't help when your beat and or announcers feed into that narrative in some cases.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Oregon v Wisconsin, Pitt v Clemson, Tennessee v UGA were all poorly officiated this past weekend as well.

These crews are human and there really isn't much more to say about it other than that. Every fanbase in every sport thinks the referees are out to get them. It doesn't help when your beat and or announcers feed into that narrative in some cases.

I didn't watch those other games close enough to pick on officiating tendencies. I had the games on while doing other things. In those games, are you saying the refs missed a call here or there? Or are you saying they botched a play so badly that everyone in the stadium (fans and coaches and media broadcast) called into question what the official were even thinking? Because a missed holding call or PI call here and there is not remotely the same as what happened in the ND UVA game.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I didn't watch those other games close enough to pick on officiating tendencies. I had the games on while doing other things. In those games, are you saying the refs missed a call here or there? Or are you saying they botched a play so badly that everyone in the stadium (fans and coaches and media broadcast) called into question what the official were even thinking? Because a missed holding call or PI call here and there is not remotely the same as what happened in the ND UVA game.

The overall performances of the crews in those respective games was not good.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

The overall performances of the crews in those respective games was not good.

Do you think there should be accountability in these situations?

 

[zelezo vlk]

I didn't watch those other games close enough to pick on officiating tendencies. I had the games on while doing other things. In those games, are you saying the refs missed a call here or there? Or are you saying they botched a play so badly that everyone in the stadium (fans and coaches and media broadcast) called into question what the official were even thinking? Because a missed holding call or PI call here and there is not remotely the same as what happened in the ND UVA game.

Tennessee/UGA was very poorly officiated against both teams. However Georgia definitely benefited

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Do you think there should be accountability in these situations?

"Accountability"?

It happens. Does it actually determine the outcome of a game? In most cases, no. I think in the situation of something egregious where it does, you perhaps demote an individual and or crew, but apart from that I don't really care enough to spitball on what should happen when human beings make errors in real time officiating a sporting event. I typically don't watch sports to see the referees.

I have three daughters in youth sports. It is getting more and more difficult to find referees for youth sports because Americans are sick assholes that have completely lost the ability to think and act rationally or be serious. You couldn't pay me enough to referee a soccer game of 9 year olds. The behavior some of the parents exhibit in public is disgusting. Individuals of an age bracket that are not considered youth screaming and yelling at referees, some of whom are often teenagers who can't drive a car or vote. It's pathetic. It's not much different than people at pro and college games throwing debris on the field like idiots when a call goes against their team. It this instance you have TV cameras everywhere and millions of dollars involved, but the basic foundation is the same: humans bringing out their inner idiot at other human beings officiating sporting events.

Maybe the NCAA and the conferences should have additional training and professional development in place for these guys. I have thought for a long time that they should be full time employees, year round and continue to improve their craft.

 

[stlnd01]

I didn't watch those other games close enough to pick on officiating tendencies. I had the games on while doing other things. In those games, are you saying the refs missed a call here or there? Or are you saying they botched a play so badly that everyone in the stadium (fans and coaches and media broadcast) called into question what the official were even thinking? Because a missed holding call or PI call here and there is not remotely the same as what happened in the ND UVA game.

There was a very borderline chop block flag on a Wisconsin running back in the fourth quarter that was a massive call in the moment. Wiped out a (rare) first down and gave Oregon the ball back for the game-winning score.

 

[NDPhilly]

????

 

[BleedBlueGold]

"Accountability"?

It happens. Does it actually determine the outcome of a game? In most cases, no. I think in the situation of something egregious where it does, you perhaps demote an individual and or crew, but apart from that I don't really care enough to spitball on what should happen when human beings make errors in real time officiating a sporting event. I typically don't watch sports to see the referees.

I have three daughters in youth sports. It is getting more and more difficult to find referees for youth sports because Americans are sick assholes that have completely lost the ability to think and act rationally or be serious. You couldn't pay me enough to referee a soccer game of 9 year olds. The behavior some of the parents exhibit in public is disgusting. Individuals of an age bracket that are not considered youth screaming and yelling at referees, some of whom are often teenagers who can't drive a car or vote. It's pathetic. It's not much different than people at pro and college games throwing debris on the field like idiots when a call goes against their team. It this instance you have TV cameras everywhere and millions of dollars involved, but the basic foundation is the same: humans bringing out their inner idiot at other human beings officiating sporting events.

Maybe the NCAA and the conferences should have additional training and professional development in place for these guys. I have thought for a long time that they should be full time employees, year round and continue to improve their craft.

I'm not sure I understand your attempted equivalency of 9 year old soccer with a D1 level sporting event that is also associated with a ten-plus billion dollar gambling industry. Of course refs are just human and make mistakes and of course fans will act like idiots in their fandom by acting like irrational idiots. That's not my point.

One of my best friends is a ref for bball and football. He's been working his way up the ladder for years and should be in line to get his first D1 football game next season. He is constantly going to camps and reviewing/studying rule books in order to improve his craft because he, as a ref, believes that at the highest level, the representation of the official crews should be the best of the best and there needs to be accountability when they fail to live up to those standards. Bad refs should be demoted and to the level of their "badness" they could possibly be investigated for swinging outcomes of games, which includes betting lines. Note: I am not saying this is what definitely happened in the ND game. I'm simply saying that when a level of officiating reaches lows like it did Saturday, there should be some sort of consequence associated with it. Hand waving it and saying they're just human and it happens everywhere won't solve the problem.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I'm not sure I understand your attempted equivalency of 9 year old soccer with a D1 level sporting event that is also associated with a ten-plus billion dollar gambling industry. Of course refs are just human and make mistakes and of course fans will act like idiots in their fandom by acting like irrational idiots. That's not my point.

One of my best friends is a ref for bball and football. He's been working his way up the ladder for years and should be in line to get his first D1 football game next season. He is constantly going to camps and reviewing/studying rule books in order to improve his craft because he, as a ref, believes that at the highest level, the representation of the official crews should be the best of the best and here needs to be accountability when they fail to live up to those standards. Bad refs should be demoted and to the level of their "badness" they could possibly be investigated for swinging outcomes of games, which includes betting lines. Note: I am not saying this is what definitely happened in the ND game. I'm simply saying that when a level of officiating reaches lows like it did Saturday, there should be some sort of consequence associated with it. Hand waving it and saying they're just human and it happens everywhere won't solve the problem.

What I'm saying is that currently less people want to officiate any sports and work their way up because of the verbal abuse they take from spectators, so it's getting more difficult to find them at any level. If you can't find referees in the suburbs for youth soccer matches, you're probably going to struggle at the high school and small college levels too, along with all the way up. It would seem counterproductive to work a day job five days a week for 40 hours and referee on the side only to endure ignorant belligerence. You're not going to keep younger people in the pack and retain them so that they too can work their way up and do the job well.

I think most sports are having a hard time finding quality and quantity in terms of officiating, at every level, nationwide. The youth levels are sort of the farm systems and if abuse, low compensation, etc aren't making it worth it you're going to see all levels suffer from top to bottom.

I don't disagree with any of what you're saying. It is my understanding, however, that these guys are not full time at the job to begin with. I think making that so at the pro and college level would benefit them in terms of the quality of their work. It could also attract people to get into the profession. You'd think with the millions of dollars involved there would be protocol among the conferences and NCAA to review on a week by week basis and provide assistance to help these crews be better at the job. I don't know how much of a "problem" we're really talking about here, but they're not going to get everything right. I thought that's what replay was for.

As far as I know on the professional level there is a merit system. Certain crews are going to get the more important games and series. This stuff gets reviewed during the offseason as well.

Ultimately, the officiating really had no consequence on UGA, Oregon or Notre Dame winning.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

What I'm saying is that currently less people want to officiate any sports and work their way up because of the verbal abuse they take from spectators, so it's getting more difficult to find them at any level. If you can't find referees in the suburbs for youth soccer matches, you're probably going to struggle at the high school and small college levels too, along with all the way up. It would seem counterproductive to work a day job five days a week for 40 hours and referee on the side only to endure ignorant belligerence. You're not going to keep younger people in the pack and retain them so that they too can work their way up and do the job well.

I think most sports are having a hard time finding quality and quantity in terms of officiating, at every level, nationwide. The youth levels are sort of the farm systems and if abuse, low compensation, etc aren't making it worth it you're going to see all levels suffer from top to bottom.

I don't disagree with any of what you're saying. It is my understanding, however, that these guys are not full time at the job to begin with. I think making that so at the pro and college level would benefit them in terms of the quality of their work. It could also attract people to get into the profession. You'd think with the millions of dollars involved there would be protocol among the conferences and NCAA to review on a week by week basis and provide assistance to help these crews be better at the job. I don't know how much of a "problem" we're really talking about here, but they're not going to get everything right. I thought that's what replay was for.

As far as I know on the professional level there is a merit system. Certain crews are going to get the more important games and series. This stuff gets reviewed during the offseason as well.

Ultimately, the officiating really had no consequence on UGA, Oregon or Notre Dame winning.

Completely agree with you except for the last part because UVA covered the spread and to a lot of betters, there was consequence in those absolute horrific calls.

I'll have to ask my friend if there has been any push for an actual jobs program. A way to recruit, develop, and place refs into the market, while simultaneously holding them to account based on their merits. The merits along with rewards and consequences were the entirety of my earlier posts. When these guys royally blow a game (not just a random subjective call here or there), there should be consequences in the form of demotions, fines, etc. At the top of the sport with billions of dollars at work, especially when gambling is involved adding even more billions, that accountability seems important. That's all I'm saying. How we fix it on the lower levels that encourages growth in the market is a different conversation than what I wasn't trying to have.

 

[NumbersGuy0520]

That's what I thought I heard on the broadcast as well. How could the refs be THAT bad to blow that many calls against ND in one single game is beyond me and warrants further investigation. These weren't subjective calls. They blatantly overruled their own rule book either by extreme incompetence or by corruption. Neither should be tolerated.

How quickly we all also forget:
- the Riley Leonard 4th down conversation by over a yard against A&M, that was reviewed and somehow withstood.
- Countless targetings that we were on the wrong side of last year, either when they were called against us or not called for us, usually with an ACC officiating crew. One game I specifically remember Devyn Ford being knocked unconscious on a kickoff. Refs didn’t even review it for targeting, nothing from the booth. Then later in the game I want to say we had an ejection on a shoulder pad hit.
- Probably a bunch of other calls I’m forgetting.

I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I do genuinely believe that the ACC officiating crew has motive to shaft us more often than not. Same with other crews. I don’t believe that refs, as people with thoughts and feelings, are totally unbiased to the results of these games, and there are probably more “hurr durr ND should join a conference” and “fuck ND” refs out there than not.

The underlying issue is there are no repercussions to missed calls even when there are several; weeks/years will go by and most will simply forget about this game and how lopsided some of the officiating was.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Completely agree with you except for the last part because UVA covered the spread and to a lot of betters, there was consequence in those absolute horrific calls.

I'll have to ask my friend if there has been any push for an actual jobs program. A way to recruit, develop, and place refs into the market, while simultaneously holding them to account based on their merits. The merits along with rewards and consequences were the entirety of my earlier posts. When these guys royally blow a game (not just a random subjective call here or there), there should be consequences in the form of demotions, fines, etc. At the top of the sport with billions of dollars at work, especially when gambling is involved adding even more billions, that accountability seems important. That's all I'm saying. How we fix it on the lower levels that encourages growth in the market is a different conversation than what I wasn't trying to have.

Gambling is now of higher importance than competitive equity. That's going to be a major issue going forward. I don't gamble, so really could care less, but I understand how popular it is and how more and more states are legalizing it.

We're talking about refereeing and using words like accountability, consequences, fines, demotions and it would appear that we're taking this more seriously because of gambling more than anything else.

I suppose if that is the means to the end of getting better officiating, hey, whatever it takes. I have come to think it is a thankless job I would not want.

 

[stpeteirish]

Oh yeah, no doubt. Our kicking specialist in particular have been bad.

We’ve used four guys at kicker. Goins has been limited to kickoffs (one XPoint) and has been ok. They threw Domeide out there for one long one and it was awful no surprise there, your fourth team kicker can’t hit from 56 yards.Jeter was OK (not great) until he got hurt. Since then he’s been slow to come back.They don’t seem to want to use him on FGs which has really put us in a bind because the next man in, Yoakum, has been brutal on anything over chip shot distance.
The injury has been the cause of most of our woes but disappointing that none of the three walk one have stepped up successfully

 

[NDohio]

????

I did think it was a mistake for Marcus to not call a timeout there. Now we know why he didn't.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I did think it was a mistake for Marcus to not call a timeout there. Now we know why he didn't.

The chances that he needed to save his timeouts for anything meaningful from that point till the end of the game was virtually zero.

Should've just taken a timeout to make sure it got reviewed.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Gambling is now of higher importance than competitive equity. That's going to be a major issue going forward. I don't gamble, so really could care less, but I understand how popular it is and how more and more states are legalizing it.

We're talking about refereeing and using words like accountability, consequences, fines, demotions and it would appear that we're taking this more seriously because of gambling more than anything else.

I suppose if that is the means to the end of getting better officiating, hey, whatever it takes. I have come to think it is a thankless job I would not want.

I think maybe it bears repeating, then, that we're talking about a multi billion dollar industry (industries if you include gambling). This isn't pee wee football with participation trophies. The bonus money these schools are getting for playing themselves into the CFP and potentially winning is huge. The ramifications for losing could cost some coaches their job, NIL collectives to slow on funds, etc. I think the sport is in such a place that holding referees accountable for their shit performances seems reasonable.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I think maybe it bears repeating, then, that we're talking about a multi billion dollar industry (industries if you include gambling). This isn't pee wee football with participation trophies. The bonus money these schools are getting for playing themselves into the CFP and potentially winning is huge. The ramifications for losing could cost some coaches their job, NIL collectives to slow on funds, etc. I think the sport is in such a place that holding referees accountable for their shit performances seems reasonable.

Thank you for clarifying that. I wasn't actually confused about that, but now it's out there and I've been warned.

It would also be worth repeating that It's already happening that referees are reviewed reasonably. Performance evaluations, assignment changes, compensation, punishment (sometimes publicly), etc. occur already. The SEC reviews referees weekly and on an annual basis, both individually and the crew's overall body of work as a group, as do the other FBS conferences. The details are typically not shared with the public, so if we're interested in more transparency and getting specific names of who was responsible for somebody not covering a spread in a game decided by four touchdowns, maybe that's a demand worth looking into.

I'm not interested in gambling, but I realize that millions of people are, so it isn't lost on me that it is important to others. My primary concern from a competitive standpoint is Notre Dame, but heaven forbid Oregon had gotten screwed on a call in Madison Saturday, I know that affects the big picture of things.

As for coaches losing their jobs and deep pocket donors slowing down their money, I really have no idea that there are metrics that would support any of that has happened because of poor officiating. I think bad coaches and entitled donors do what they do. If a missed holding call ends up getting Billy Napier fired at Florida, Billy Napier probably has to ask himself how he got to that kind of margin to begin with.

The NCAA also announced this past summer they were launching an officiating reform initiative that includes background checks, gambling education, career advancement and training opportunities. I think with all of the gambling involved there should be oversight now more than ever.

Probably want to stop fining coaches who criticize referees in post game pressers too, going forward.