Very Post Game Observations (Michigan State) ....

TDHeysus

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I went to the USC game today and watched the ND game when I got home. just some quick observations

-as stated, this is a different team; let go of last year, its gone.

-Rees had an off day(it happens), a lot of overthrown passes.(not Daniels fault)

-Robinson is showing progress, he can be a legitimate compliment to Daniels (I really enjoyed seeing this)

-the defense is lacking, but they are fighting; seems to be in transition, no direction, lacks leadership. but the effort is there.

-the running game, ....brutal

-ND has a lot of issues to deal with, BK isn't even close to being one of them. Dude is solid in my book, I cant stress that enough.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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Those stats and win percentages are nice and all, but a vast majority were at Grand Valley State, Central Michigan, and Cincinnati. Not exactly the same as doing it at Penn State, Florida or South Carolina. Good for him, but it is what it is. I don't think you can compare them because of that level of competition.

He was 34-6 at Cincinnati. He's 31-12 at ND. He's got a 78% win rate at the highest level. That's elite any way you slice it.

On my expectations, I don't think I am being unrealistic in expecting this team to have formed some sort of team identity by year four of the Brian Kelly era. Lot's stop the excuses and examine just what does this team do well? What can they hang their hat's on from a week to week basis? The talent pool has increased on this roster ten fold, so why are we still struggling to find an identity and looking sloppy in almost every aspect of the game at this point?

Who's making excuses here? Kelly's apologists simply have to point to his record. You're the one who's drafting long-winded arguments about how we should be expecting more from a coach who inherited this program at its nadir and has since won 72% of his games, including an appearance in the NCG.

Burden of proof is firmly on you here, and hand-waving about scheme and identity isn't going to carry the day when we're finally winning again at a rate unseen since Holtz's glory days.
 
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Domer4ever

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We are 15-2 in our last 17 games. It sounds like you're not impressed with the style points. You play the win the game!

I'm thrilled with the way things went last season, but there were a half dozen games we could have easily lost if the ball bounces the other way. What happens if Matt Barkley isn't injured, do we win at the Coliseum? Where is this program right now if we lose those games? Alabama exposed this team and Brian Kelly, who was completely overwhelmed in that game. I think what we are seeing right now is the reality of what this team is and who Kelly is as a coach.
 

Domer4ever

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He was 34-6 at Cincinnati. He's 31-12 at ND. He's got a 78% win rate at the highest level. That's elite any way you slice it.



Who's making excuses here? Kelly's apologists simply have to point to his record. You're the one who's drafting long-winded arguments about how we should be expecting more from a coach who inherited this program at its nadir and has since won 72% of his games, including an appearance in the NCG.

Burden of proof is firmly on you here, and hand-waving about scheme and identity isn't going to carry the day when we're finally winning again at a rate unseen since Holtz's glory days.

You are right here. I'm just not convinced what I saw from this team last year wasn't just smoke and mirrors with a lot of luck sprinkled in. It was just one of those magic seasons, but heck, even Charlie Weis caught lightning in a bottle here a couple times.

I can't argue the win-loss record, he wins playing ugly football. I just doubt the ability to sustain any long term success playing ugly and not being able to establish an identity on either side of the football. We'll see how things shake out here over the next few weeks.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I'm thrilled with the way things went last season, but there were a half dozen games we could have easily lost if the ball bounces the other way.

We caught some breaks last season, but we also overcame a lot of bad luck as well. IrishLax wrote an article on it recently. Last season was not a fluke.

What happens if Matt Barkley isn't injured, do we win at the Coliseum? Where is this program right now if we lose those games?

Honestly? We would have faced and probably beaten a team of mere mortals in a BCS game, instead of getting stomped by the Olympians we faced in Miami. Might have resulted in a much less tumultuous offseason for us.

Alabama exposed this team and Brian Kelly, who was completely overwhelmed in that game. I think what we are seeing right now is the reality of what this team is and who Kelly is as a coach.

:jerkit:
 

GATTACA!

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Yes, I like what he has done upgrading the program in a lot of areas that had needed it for a long time, but have been less then impressed with his ability to actually coach the football team. Again too much; sloppy football, mental errors, lack of execution, and just a team that does not come out looking prepared or ready to play a lot of weeks. Those are coaching issues. How long is it going to take him to implement "his program" to "his liking" before we stop making excuses for him? It's year four!! These are "his guys!" I just don't see the improvement in quality of play that we should be seeing with the improved quality of overall roster talent.

On the QB excuse, Rees is playing good football and has actually made some nice audible calls for big plays that Golson probably doesn't make. The problems of execution on offense are not because Kelly can't "open the playbook" with Rees at QB.

Its not just an issue of playing good. Rees can play lights out every start and still not give you what Golson brings to the table. His lack of mobility limits the play calling and also gives the defense a huge advantage of not having to concern themselves with QB contain. Kellys O is designed for a mobile QB. If anything, the mostly seamless transition from Golson to Rees full time should be a huge indicator of Kellys ability to adapt offensively. Pike was fine in his role at Cincy, it was much like Rees's last year a closer and strictly passing option, not someone the offense was built around.
 
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Buster Bluth

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I'm thrilled with the way things went last season, but there were a half dozen games we could have easily lost if the ball bounces the other way. What happens if Matt Barkley isn't injured, do we win at the Coliseum? Where is this program right now if we lose those games? Alabama exposed this team and Brian Kelly, who was completely overwhelmed in that game. I think what we are seeing right now is the reality of what this team is and who Kelly is as a coach.

I'll respectfully disagree.
 

Gauss

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We've won two 1-possession games this year, too. Sooner or later, we'll have to stop attributing it to luck and say we've finally learned how to win close games.
What do you think our winning % in one score games should be going forward?

And does your assessment change if Rees's last pass from the Michigan 6 had been a touchdown instead of an INT? Now we lose that game by 1 score?
 

dang227

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Crazy game....

- I'm sure I'll get ripped for this, but I really have no idea what to make of Brian Kelly at this point in his fourth year. I just don't see a "great" coach out there when I watch this team play and have come to the personal opinion that the guy is just incredibly over rated. I appreciate the fact that he implemented a modern day strength and conditioning program and has streamlined a lot of things this program has needed for a long time, but on game day the team seems confused, unmotivated, and routinely makes mental errors. It's just sloppy football. His forte is offense, and we have yet to see this offense establish any sort of identity in year four. I don't buy that he is being hindered by QB's, offensive line play, or whatever else you want to throw out there. It's year four, these are his players, and there is ample talent to work with on this offense. What I think is hindering this team is bad schemes, play's that just don't work, and rotating players in and out of the lineup at a maddening rate. There is zero continuity. I understand this team was undefeated last year, but let's face the facts folks- this team benefited from a schedule that fell just perfectly into place, dumb luck, and a senior class that carried the team. It was a great season, but does that alone make Brian Kelly a great coach? I say no. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut sometimes, case in point being that Charlie Weis had this program in two BCS games before the truth revealed itself. I just don't think Kelly is very good at what he does. Someone convince me otherwise here.

- Can we please scrap the WR screen out to the flank? It's a completely worthless play that defenses can read from a mile away. The offense does not do a very good job disguising anything they do. If anybody watches much of this team at all, it's not hard to guess what's coming next based on formations and personnel groupings.

- Great job by the offensive line holding up in pass protection today. Still needs work run blocking.

- Is there really any question at this point that the defense plays much better when running a four man front? Played a lot of it in the second half and put lots of pressure on the QB. Shembo and Ishaq are different players with their hands in the dirt getting after the QB. I also liked seeing Tuitt inside next to Nix, just too big and strong pushing the pocket. Also much more stout against the run out of that formation with the big boys eating up blockers. More 4-3 Bobby D!

- Even though Shumate gave up that TD covering in the slot, I think having him start over Farley was the right move and made a difference in the play of the secondary. It would be great if Cole Luke can step up, reclaim that nickel spot, and just let Shumate play safety.

- Big game from Corey Robinson today. Kid is going to be special.

- I didn't think Tommy was great today, but he didn't really hurt the team either. Just off throwing the football today, but was able to get a lot of pass interference calls throwing it deep (some questionable).

Nice to win today, but lot's to clean up before Oklahoma next week.

Kelly's offense hasn't been the same since Jeff Quinn left for Buffalo. I think he was the secret behind the success at UC. If he ever gets fired at Buffalo, I would love for them to add him to the staff.


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rileys07

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Brain Kelly

Brain Kelly

Our putrid running game is disgusting..

Yes we have no running game. Our so called great coach has no clue about running the football. The running backs have no holes to run through most of the time. We can't gain 1 yard for a 1st down like 4 times on 3rd down. Football is about deception and execution. We do not have any of that. The only time a running back had a hole to run through is when Cam scored the touchdown. Kelly is really not a coach coach.
Bob Diaco's defensive calls suck to. We were lucky to beat Michigain St. Goling to be a long poor season for us unless some heads roll.
 

Rizzophil

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MSU is designed to stop the run. If you make big plays in the passing game you beat them. If you don't, you normally lose

We were the exception here and not the rule. Be happy we won.
 

Sherm Sticky

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MSU is designed to stop the run. If you make big plays in the passing game you beat them. If you don't, you normally lose

We were the exception here and not the rule. Be happy we won.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. We hit them over the top a couple of times and got a sh*t load of PI calls. I would say we beat them more to the rule not the exception to the rule.


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kmoose

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On my expectations, I don't think I am being unrealistic in expecting this team to have formed some sort of team identity by year four of the Brian Kelly era. Lot's stop the excuses and examine just what does this team do well? What can they hang their hat's on from a week to week basis? The talent pool has increased on this roster ten fold, so why are we still struggling to find an identity and looking sloppy in almost every aspect of the game at this point?

Seriously, man... how long have you been watching college football? The players turn over way too often for a team to establish some kind of concrete identity in 4 years. What this team should be, and would be if Golson hadn't screwed the pooch, is a spread offense that runs inside very well.
 
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Tommy was horrendous. He audibled into rruns for losses, overthrew every deep pass not to Robinson, and wasted 3 timeouts. All to go 14 for 34. He was God awful.
 
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Looking through unsolved South Bend murders to see who Greg Bryant killed because that's the only explanation for why he can't get one carry.
 

kmoose

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As wooly pointed out in the MSU thread, Daniels was targeted something like 17 times today with man coverage, and only recorded 6 yards on 3 receptions. Though I believe he drew 3 of the 4 PIs, so we should probably give him credit for another 45 yards. Still, rough day for him. Now that he's proven his chops as a playmaker, he's got to improve his physicality; he can't get abused like that in man coverage.

One thing that I noticed, and it concerned me greatly; on I think it was the first PI call (it was in the end zone), Daniels didn't appear to even make much of an effort to catch the ball. It's not like he was getting mugged. The PI came from the defender tugging on his jersey. But Daniels didn't even appear to try to raise his arms to catch the ball. It's like he was expecting the PI call, and was content to just take the penalty. That's not good. but Daniels has been having a very good year, so I am going to just chalk it up as a fluke.
 

Domina Nostra

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I love Kelly, and thinn he will continue to adapt.

I think Kelly felt free to take chances at UC because his defense was so limited, and is now trying not to lose at any cost- a win is a win. His hyper style offense is not a good match with an elite D, and he wants one of those.

I do think that he lacks elite coordinators on game day. I love Diaco for getting the first 95% of a player, I don't love him in terms of game planning or gimmicks. Martin seems more like a head coach then a schemer.
 

enrico514

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I'm thrilled with the way things went last season, but there were a half dozen games we could have easily lost if the ball bounces the other way. What happens if Matt Barkley isn't injured, do we win at the Coliseum? Where is this program right now if we lose those games? Alabama exposed this team and Brian Kelly, who was completely overwhelmed in that game. I think what we are seeing right now is the reality of what this team is and who Kelly is as a coach.

Yes and in 2011 we lost a few games we could have won if the ball bounced the other way.

The only thing I question with BK is his ability to deal with 5* athletes and keep them engaged. This is something he never encountered in his previous stops. He needs to figure this out for us to become truly elite.
 

irishfan

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I guess one positive is that we gave away pretty much nothing for Oklahoma to glean from the tape. We still run the BS WR screen that anyone can see from a mile away, we still run the ball every single time James Onwualu is in the game and pass it every single time Fuller is in, we still run strong-side off tackle out of the pistol when we have two TEs together.

This offense actually wouldn't be that bad if they weren't so insistent on subbing about 3-4 ppl in and out after every play. As pretty much everyone here has been talking about for weeks, its just pathetic that fans know what plays are coming ahead of time based on personnel or the formation. Any decent DC has to be drooling watching our offense play.

Oh, and our D is completely average.

I literally have no idea what to expect from this Oklahoma game. We could win by 14 or lose by 30 and I wouldn't be surprised.
 

Sherm Sticky

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Tommy was horrendous. He audibled into rruns for losses, overthrew every deep pass not to Robinson, and wasted 3 timeouts. All to go 14 for 34. He was God awful.

Not going to be nice, but you are a real idiot. You have been saying this bs for a while now. If you actually watched and knew what was going on in the game you would have noticed burning those timeouts was on the coaching staff not Tommy. But I guess according to you it's Tommy's fault when he gets the play from the sideline with 10 seconds left.


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BobD

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I'm going to watch the next game while covering my eyes, it might not be pretty.

Fight hard Irish.....you just never know. I hope coach has a card up his sleeve somewhere.
 

notredomer23

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The play calling is just putrid. We were so lucky to get that touchdown before the half. WTF is Kelly doing. 1st down from the two yard line. You run it twice, at least. If you don't get it the first two times, maybe try the fade. Everything was just so predictable today. Thankfully we won't play a defense like MSU every week, but still.

My biggest critique, while the running game was bad, is why the F do we only throw to the perimeter. The middle of the field was wide open soooooooooo many times. I can recall about two plays that were thrown to the deep middle. One time to TJ Jones and it was just slightly overthrown by Rees, but he was wide open.

PLEASE ditch the WR screen. It's a joke.
 

EuropeanDomer

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Is true that Greg Bryant skipped the alma mater and went into the locker room? Strong rumour right now. If it's true, do not like this diva attitude even understanding him..
 

PANDFAN

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Tommy was horrendous. He audibled into rruns for losses, overthrew every deep pass not to Robinson, and wasted 3 timeouts. All to go 14 for 34. He was God awful.

Michigan State lost it more than we won it.
you must be a peach to live with...bitch bitch bitch bitch
The play calling is just putrid. We were so lucky to get that touchdown before the half. WTF is Kelly doing. 1st down from the two yard line. You run it twice, at least. If you don't get it the first two times, maybe try the fade. Everything was just so predictable today. Thankfully we won't play a defense like MSU every week, but still.

My biggest critique, while the running game was bad, is why the F do we only throw to the perimeter. The middle of the field was wide open soooooooooo many times. I can recall about two plays that were thrown to the deep middle. One time to TJ Jones and it was just slightly overthrown by Rees, but he was wide open.

PLEASE ditch the WR screen. It's a joke.

we had just burned our last time out after the catch by Robinson....less than 22 secs 1st in goal NO timeout, run the risk of getting stopped in the backfield and then rushing up to the line to get play off and risk wasting an opportunity
 

notredomer23

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you must be a peach to live with...bitch bitch bitch bitch


we had just burned our last time out after the catch by Robinson....less than 22 secs 1st in goal NO timeout, run the risk of getting stopped in the backfield and then rushing up to the line to get play off and risk wasting an opportunity

I thought we at least had one time out with 33 seconds. Regardless, then run it once at least. It was just frustrating to watch. I am a huge Kelly fan, but he needs to hire a proven offensive coordinator this off season.
 

tko

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Is true that Greg Bryant skipped the alma mater and went into the locker room? Strong rumour right now. If it's true, do not like this diva attitude even understanding him..

If true, then bye. That **** cannot be tolerated.
 

kmoose

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I thought we at least had one time out with 33 seconds. Regardless, then run it once at least. It was just frustrating to watch. I am a huge Kelly fan, but he needs to hire a proven offensive coordinator this off season.

We hired Kelly for his system. You don't hire a head coach for his system, and then tell him you are bringing in an Offensive Coordinator. If it gets to that point, you just fire the coach.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Might as well simply respond to kmoose's points, since he covers most of the bases:



Rees and our WRs also gained 70 yards through penalties, so it's probably more accurate to say they got 212 yards on 34 attempts.

MSU's DBs were mugging our WRs all day long, and I agree with Kelly that the refs could have given us a couple more PIs (even if 1-2 of those actually called were borderline).

As wooly pointed out in the MSU thread, Daniels was targeted something like 17 times today with man coverage, and only recorded 6 yards on 3 receptions. Though I believe he drew 3 of the 4 PIs, so we should probably give him credit for another 45 yards. Still, rough day for him. Now that he's proven his chops as a playmaker, he's got to improve his physicality; he can't get abused like that in man coverage.

I'm more inclined to blame Rees for ignoring his short and intermediate routes that Kelly or Martin.

We seemed less predictable today than we've been the last three weeks, though I'm not sure how much of that was MSU simply deciding to give us man coverage all day no matter what. Other than the two screens they blew up early in the game, I can't recall any plays where they obviously knew where we were going.



Their 3rd quarter scoring drive where they just pounded the ball made me nervous. Stopping that kind of power rushing attack is supposed to be our defense's strength, no?

Strangely enough, our pass rush seemed to be best in the 4th quarter when we were only rushing 3-4.



He did well with his limited reps today. The big TFL that killed that drive was on our OL (Lombard specifically, IIRC).



Absolutely. I put more blame on our OL's run blocking than on our backs, honestly. Mayock pointed out egregious failures by almost all of our OL on different rushing attempts; many of which killed drives. Lombard especially has looked bad. We all expected him to be a big upgrade over Golic, and I think he has been in pass protection, but Golic was at least competent at pulling.



I think we go 2-1 over the next three games, win out through our "soft" stretch, and then travel to Palo Alto with a BCS bid on the line.

I think this is a constructive thread beyond what I would have expected with the vitriol that has been sprayed around this season. That and the great quality of all the posts and I am going to rep each one of you.

Let me start with the one HUGE point. Mark Mayock brought it up after a friend that had some familiarity with the QB position had like seven minutes earlier. ND often runs two routes, one to stretch the field and one under.

Tommy almost always picks the long one. My bud said, "I can almost hear him saying, what was that about me not having the arm strength?" Tommy has to get over it, or whatever it is and occasionally throw to the underneath receiver. There were times the guy on that route had a man playing off by three yards.

Tommy hasn't thrown to that guy all year; (How is that for tendencies Brian Kelly?) On all but one the plays where the receiver was forced out of bounds, and Tommy launched it to him anyway. By the way, check the tape at how many of those the defender used his hands down field to push CBreezey, DD, or whomever, as opposed to just using their body!

And today all my vitriol is pointed away from ND. Those guys were in a war yesterday. And basically they were prepared. As bad as something were, there was an improvement everywhere. And that really counts for the O-line, and the D-line.

The O-line faced what I believe is one of the best couple fronts in the nation, with speed and athleticism blasting out of their @sses. What a group! Everyone played better. Lombard, (I haven't looked closely, but I am assuming he had half the ef-ups that he usually does.) The D-line looked better and more active, without having their heretofore most consistent player Sheldon Day!

Don't get this one wrong and miss it, this is the best antidote for the next three or four games. If this D-line gels now, and they were getting pressure yesterday with three men a couple times and four men often, we in business!

Other than that, fvck Mike Mayock, NBC should fire him. Saying you don't agree with a call once or twice is fine. But going on and on and on. I am sure the Big Ten Network would love to have him!
 

aubeirish

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Wished we ran Mike Leach's offense. We have all the tools for that...
 
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