USC recruiting and everything else

[palinurus]

I love when people use an anecdote to describe what the issue is. A lot of people say no JUCOs isn't a big deal, 4 year schollies isn't a big deal, academic standards isn't a big deal, etc. but when you give concrete examples it shows why ND doing things the "right way" hurts us versus teams that do things "by the book."

If ND was USC you would've seen Taylor McNamara recruited in this class and Jake Golic "done away with." You would've seen Luke Massa off the team as soon as it was evident he wouldn't be a contributor at QB and probably would've offered Jordan Westerkamp earlier and have him committed.

If we compromised academic standards to USC's level we would've had Carson Palmer many years ago instead of them... and more recently we wouldn't have passed on Byron Marshall who is now headed to Oregon.

And then when you watch Auburn bring in Nick Fairley and Cam Newton as JUCOs... and watch USC bring in a 5 safety in this class as a JUCO as well as a bunch of JUCOs last year... and watch Michigan State every year build a team almost strictly from the JUCO ranks... you can't act like that doesn't hurt us. JUCOs allow you to get players after they've developed and not use a schollie on them while they're still in their growing phase OR fill holes on your roster like the NFL free agent wire.

Basically, add all these up and USC after sanctions is playing with about the same "barriers" to a good team as Notre Dame does every year.

Yes, this is all true and a good point, and one that the college football media completely ignores. The hard part is that we need to compete and win in the same environment as they do. I agree our grad rate and academics and concern for education and a job in the real world some day should all greatly influence a recruit's decision, and I think our kids, as a whole, are smarter, long-term focused, and more academically motivated. But we're in the same AP rankings with these other schools who, mostly, don't care about that stuff. It's a tough extra hurdle to overcome but, in the debates about who the top teams are, the academic stuff just doesn't give us traction. In debates with fans or other schools and among the media, t's like arguing which team would have the best four member panel on "Academic College Bowl."

 

[IrishLax]

Thought this would be a good place to post this...

Patrick Hall, former 5, is being pushed out because of multiple knee injuries. (Take note recruits!!!)

Prater is definitely transferring, it is unclear right now whether USC will attempt to block him or Armond from transferring to ND... but it appears, for now, that they will not block Armond.

Jesse Scroggins might also be heading out, that seems less definitive right now.

Then there is Amir Carlisle transferring to ND... a guy they did "block" in the sense that he will be a one year non-participant.

Making room for more recruits............. who they will then surely cut later if they get hurt or don't pan out.

 

[NYIrish14]

Thought this would be a good place to post this...

Patrick Hall, former 5, is being pushed out because of multiple knee injuries. (Take note recruits!!!)

Prater is definitely transferring, it is unclear right now whether USC will attempt to block him or Armond from transferring to ND... but it appears, for now, that they will not block Armond.

Jesse Scroggins might also be heading out, that seems less definitive right now.

Then there is Amir Carlisle transferring to ND... a guy they did "block" in the sense that he will be a one year non-participant.

Making room for more recruits............. who they will then surely cut later if they get hurt or don't pan out.

Just saw a tweet by Prater. He is not considering transferring to ND.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Just saw a tweet by Prater. He is not considering transferring to ND.

Should be noted that he said he wanted to stay in-state and talk to NW, IL, or...WISCONSIN. Are Geography courses not required at SC? lol

 

[zbikowski88]

LOS ANGELES -- Former Florida Gators defensive back Josh Shaw will transfer to USC Trojans, his high school coach told ESPNLosAngeles.com Tuesday.

HS coach says ex-Florida Gator Josh Shaw transferring to USC Trojans - ESPN Los Angeles

 

[NDPhilly]

Wow. Why on Earth would you transfer there with the sanctions about to kick in?

 

[Me2SouthBend]

LOS ANGELES -- Former Florida Gators defensive back Josh Shaw will transfer to USC Trojans, his high school coach told ESPNLosAngeles.com Tuesday.

HS coach says ex-Florida Gator Josh Shaw transferring to USC Trojans - ESPN Los Angeles

Color me shocked he would apply for a hardship waiver so he doesn't have to sit out a year. Couldn't imagine Kiffy would suggest that trick. Maybe Amir should do that coming to ND. Hardship that his father lives half a country away from where he is attending school. This just in... U$C sucks!

 

[IrishLax]

If that waiver is approved I will absolutely flip a sh*t there is NO WAY that it makes sense to approve a "waiver" to move across the freaking country. Unreal.

This better not get granted.

 

[NDinFL]

Color me shocked he would apply for a hardship waiver so he doesn't have to sit out a year. Couldn't imagine Kiffy would suggest that trick. Maybe Amir should do that coming to ND. Hardship that his father lives half a country away from where he is attending school. This just in... U$C sucks!

I though Amir's father took a job at Purdue?

 

[Andy in Sactown]

I have no problem if a hardship waiver is granted if a genuine hardship exists. That said, U$C's logic with respect to scholarship numbers continues to elude me. Aren't they trying to cut players? Not blocking Amir seemed to indicate they were responding to the scholarship realities, but this just makes me wonder what the hell Lane & Co. have rolling around in their heads.

 

[WabashFalcon]

I have no problem if a hardship waiver is granted if a genuine hardship exists. That said, U$C's logic with respect to scholarship numbers continues to elude me. Aren't they trying to cut players? Not blocking Amir seemed to indicate they were responding to the scholarship realities, but this just makes me wonder what the hell Lane & Co. have rolling around in their heads.

x2

 

[Irishcop]

Doesn't usc have like 40 db's already? It seems like db's and receivers are the only positions usc recruits.

 

[IrishLax]

I have no problem if a hardship waiver is granted if a genuine hardship exists. That said, U$C's logic with respect to scholarship numbers continues to elude me. Aren't they trying to cut players? Not blocking Amir seemed to indicate they were responding to the scholarship realities, but this just makes me wonder what the hell Lane & Co. have rolling around in their heads.

From all reports they did "block" Amir in the sense that they did not "release" him and he will not be on scholarship this year.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Doesn't usc have like 40 db's already? It seems like db's and receivers are the only positions usc recruits.

No, they're actually hurting for CBs and with the transfers of Prater and Butler, they are becoming dangerously thin at WR. 10 schollies a year is going to hurt their depth in all kinds of places.

 

[Irishcop]

No, they're actually hurting for CBs and with the transfers of Prater and Butler, they are becoming dangerously thin at WR. 10 schollies a year is going to hurt their depth in all kinds of places.

Thanks. For some reason I thought usc was stacked at CB and WR. Thats very good news to hear that its just the opposite.

 

[Irishcop]

From all reports they did "block" Amir in the sense that they did not "release" him and he will not be on scholarship this year.

I'm not really informed on how scholarships work, but if usc does not have Amir on scholarship whats stopping him from going to play for another school? If usc isn't going to keep him on, why cant he just leave school or can he? I'm asking because I really don't understand how this works.

 

[jmurphy75]

I'm not really informed on how scholarships work, but if usc does not have Amir on scholarship whats stopping him from going to play for another school? If usc isn't going to keep him on, why cant he just leave school or can he? I'm asking because I really don't understand how this works.

It's a NCAA rule if I'm not mistaken that a transfer student will have to sit a year unless expressly released by the school or petition to the NCAA is granted.

 

[ND NYC]

From all reports they did "block" Amir in the sense that they did not "release" him and he will not be on scholarship this year.

Lax:
so are you saying that Amir is paying his own way to Nd (for at least the spring semester) since "he will not be on scholarship"?
if thats the case, why cant he play right away in 2012 as walk on?

i always thought amir had an ND scholarship and that it was being counted for 2012 vs the 85 total

 

[IrishLax]

Lax:
so are you saying that Amir is paying his own way to Nd (for at least the spring semester) since "he will not be on scholarship"?

Yes, that's what I'm saying but I could be wrong if reports were incorrect.

if thats the case, why cant he play right away in 2012 as walk on?

Paraphrasing here and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but NCAA transfer rules state that if you are not released from your scholarship by the institution you attend you must:

1. Be an academic non-participant in the sport for a calendar year to go on scholarship.
2. Pay your own way for a year to participate in the sport.

Either way, he won't see the field in 2012. Which is fine because we really need him for the year after.

i always thought amir had an ND scholarship and that it was being counted for 2012 vs the 85 total

Not what I have heard, but again... these situations are always incredibly fluid.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I though Amir's father took a job at Purdue?

He did, I neglected to use the sarcasm/facetious font on that particular line. This is what U$C does as SOP.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Can't find where I posted it, so I'll just put it here.

I have to apologize to my man Lax, because I was adamant that George Farmer was going to be a RB (SC mods were adamant that the coaches thought he could be the next Adrian Peterson), while Lax had him going back to WR. Turns out that today USC announced that he was moving back to WR. USC fans seemed to be stoked (Woods, Lee, and Farmer, all from Sierra HS, all SICK athletes), although a few of them are pointing out that USC is now perilously thin at RB. So Lax, good call.

Also mentioned in the article is that 2 more players left the team, TJ Bryant, and Patrick Hall. No mention of why or what happened, but that's 2 more players cut, errrrrrr, who left. Patrick Hall had 2 major knee surgeries, and TJ Bryant was not going to see any PT...

 

[phork]

Frickin humourous. We can't take on a full compliment of scholarships, so we'll cut the riffraff to round out recruiting and still take 20.

 

[ThePiombino]

I just don't get why the NCAA continues to turn a blind eye to these kinds of practices. It can still make money AND protect the student-athlete. WTF?!

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'm certain that the problem that the NCAA has in all these affairs is one of legal quality proof. They, just like the police departments or the FBI, have to be 110% solid in their facts about "violations" and have a clear defensible regulation to cite the violation of. Unlike many sorts of "crime", it is almost impossible to imagine a "red-handed arrest" in such matters. That leaves you with an "after-the-fact" building of a case against the institution. This in a college context can almost never be achieved without multiple persons "ratting" out the athletic department. Given that, it's amazing that we ever get any sanctions at all.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

Three words: no subpoena powers.

 

[condoms SUCk]

^, yup, plus it's a loop hole that kiffy is exploiting, it's not right ethically, but they are not doing anything wrong according to NCAA regulations.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Sanctions meant to punish the school ultimately punish the student athlete. U$C $uck$.

 

[Lepresean]

I wonder why football players will continue to go there after seeing what is happening right now. I would not have any respect for a coach that drops players like USC is doing right now. That is also why I have no respect for the SEC.

 

[yankeehater]

LA Times had an article today on the SC transfer/scholarship situation. With all the recent transfers and additions (EE's and Shaw from Florida), SC currently has 67 scholarship players and that includes Armond still being counted. The article states, "If the Trojans sign 15 players next month, Kiffin and his staff will have more shuffling to do before training camp opens in August." When Kiffin was asked to explain this he said, "We have a very specific plan in place about how we're going to go about this," and he declined to discuss the details.

I believe we all know that plan. Good luck to the kids that end up being kicked to the curb.

 

[Redbar]

I can't believe Pat Haden is allowing Kiffin to thumb his nose at the spirit of the sanctions. I mean they did do things wrong ergo they should be punished. They, as an institution, are passing the sting of the sanctions on to the injured and the guys who haven't had or can't make game impact. To me this is as criminal and disturbing as the original reasons for the sanctions. We often complain about the behavior of some kids but the truth is the adults are even more to blame. They are the "adults" and they set the example. Why are we surprised when these kids get in trouble?