USC recruiting and everything else

[Me2SouthBend]

To me it shows how much in season performance doesn't matter if you have ace recruiters. USC took an uber talented team and had the worst year ever for a #1... doesn't matter because they have two of the best salesmen in the world. ND has Alford and that's really it... yeah, we have a really good class but you have to wonder what kind of hauls we cold have with guys like Tosh or Orgeron or Kiffin.

Huh? Diaco and Denbrock aren't top notch recruiters? Let's not forget U$C has the luxury of being in Southern Cali when it comes to recruiting and specifically recruiting Cali kids, but don't take anything away from some of the guys on the ND staff. You can't say that doesn't matter either because you are prone to worrying about the weather when kids visit ND. If Tosh and Orgeron and Kiffin had to recruit to South Bend they would fare very similar to ND's guys in my opinion. Take a step back, you seem more than a bit on edge about where this staff and class is at.

 

[beryirish]

47's jersey must have been the wrong size. Why wear a uniform when it's the wrong fit for you?

I'm pretty sure that is Eddie Vanderdoes holding up the jersey.

I'm also pretty sure that Kyle Fitts took a visit last weekend and he's not in the picture...assuming this picture was taken this past weekend.

 

[NDinL.A.]

To me it shows how much in season performance doesn't matter if you have ace recruiters. USC took an uber talented team and had the worst year ever for a #1... doesn't matter because they have two of the best salesmen in the world. ND has Alford and that's really it... yeah, we have a really good class but you have to wonder what kind of hauls we cold have with guys like Tosh or Orgeron or Kiffin.

Dude, aside from Denbrock, Booker can flat-out recruit. He's a star in the making...every recruit he comes across has been impressed with him.

Our guys can recruit...not worried about that at all. We wouldnt be beating out the coaches we have if that wasnt the case. More importantly, they can coach as well. Our players get better. Can you honestly say that about USC right now? I can't. Yes, they can flat-out recruit (to an easy school to recruit to), but I'll take our combination of recruiters and coaches any day over theirs. Any day.

Oh yeah, and those dudes have to play for Kiffin...

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I'm pretty sure that is Eddie Vanderdoes holding up the jersey.

I'm also pretty sure that Kyle Fitts took a visit last weekend and he's not in the picture...assuming this picture was taken this past weekend.

Fitts was at UCLA this past weekend.

 

[beryirish]

Fitts was at UCLA this past weekend.

You're right

Check this out...

UCLA Hot Cheerleader (@kirstenmarbert) retweeted by Fitts

Sad I didn't get to meet @K_Fitts93 during his visit. As, essentially, my best friends brother...That's not okay.

Fitts responded back

@kirstenmarbert haha you gotta come with kayley to the I.E.!! Lol

Kayley Braun, another hot UCLA cheerleader responded

What Kirsten? You're coming to the all-star game tomorrow and grammy's for potato soup and hanging with Kyle?

Damn sexy Cali cheerleaders.

 

[IrishLax]

Huh? Diaco and Denbrock aren't top notch recruiters? Let's not forget U$C has the luxury of being in Southern Cali when it comes to recruiting and specifically recruiting Cali kids, but don't take anything away from some of the guys on the ND staff. You can't say that doesn't matter either because you are prone to worrying about the weather when kids visit ND. If Tosh and Orgeron and Kiffin had to recruit to South Bend they would fare very similar to ND's guys in my opinion. Take a step back, you seem more than a bit on edge about where this staff and class is at.

No, they aren't. Besides Diaco's epic move with Ishaq Williams what big names has he landed? Denbrock is a very good recruiter but I wouldn't put him on the 'ace' list. I do appreciate that this staff works their butts off though. That's very refreshing.

I think people really overstate South Bend being a negative. Most schools are in the middle of nowhere. Is Columbus, Ohio really any better than South Bend? Kiffin was a boss recruiter at Tennessee too lets not forget and same goes for Ed O at Ole Miss. Most of the really elite players in USC's class aren't from their backyard at all.

 

[IrishLax]

Dude, aside from Denbrock, Booker can flat-out recruit. He's a star in the making...every recruit he comes across has been impressed with him.

Our guys can recruit...not worried about that at all. We wouldnt be beating out the coaches we have if that wasnt the case. More importantly, they can coach as well. Our players get better. Can you honestly say that about USC right now? I can't. Yes, they can flat-out recruit (to an easy school to recruit to), but I'll take our combination of recruiters and coaches any day over theirs. Any day.

Oh yeah, and those dudes have to play for Kiffin...

I'm really high on Booker. Simply put he never would've been promoted if the staff didn't think he would pay dividends on the trail. I really hope we're able to keep him around long term.

 

[beryirish]

No, they aren't. Besides Diaco's epic move with Ishaq Williams what big names has he landed? Denbrock is a very good recruiter but I wouldn't put him on the 'ace' list. I do appreciate that this staff works their butts off though. That's very refreshing.

I think people really overstate South Bend being a negative. Most schools are in the middle of nowhere. Is Columbus, Ohio really any better than South Bend? Kiffin was a boss recruiter at Tennessee too lets not forget and same goes for Ed O at Ole Miss. Most of the really elite players in USC's class aren't from their backyard at all.

May be biased but Columbus is a fun city. OSU is right there with Texas as the largest university so tons of young people with most of them staying in Cbus after graduation. City is big with an awesome social life to go with it. Not sure if same for South Bend.

 

[DCIrish]

No, they aren't. Besides Diaco's epic move with Ishaq Williams what big names has he landed? Denbrock is a very good recruiter but I wouldn't put him on the 'ace' list. I do appreciate that this staff works their butts off though. That's very refreshing.

I think people really overstate South Bend being a negative. Most schools are in the middle of nowhere. Is Columbus, Ohio really any better than South Bend? Kiffin was a boss recruiter at Tennessee too lets not forget and same goes for Ed O at Ole Miss. Most of the really elite players in USC's class aren't from their backyard at all.

OSU has an advantage because Ohio produces great talent every year and most of them grow up wanting to play there.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

No, they aren't. Besides Diaco's epic move with Ishaq Williams what big names has he landed? Denbrock is a very good recruiter but I wouldn't put him on the 'ace' list. I do appreciate that this staff works their butts off though. That's very refreshing.

I think people really overstate South Bend being a negative. Most schools are in the middle of nowhere. Is Columbus, Ohio really any better than South Bend? Kiffin was a boss recruiter at Tennessee too lets not forget and same goes for Ed O at Ole Miss. Most of the really elite players in USC's class aren't from their backyard at all.

So, who is the ace recruiter at Ole Miss now? Must be someone unreal, oh that's right, they have no admission standards and they over sign. Come in man, you can't use that as a measuring stick. How many times have I seen you write that you are worried about the weather when recruits visit? Countless. Give these guys their due, they are collectively as good as any staff and that's the bottom line.

 

[connect the dots]

47's jersey must have been the wrong size. Why wear a uniform when it's the wrong fit for you?

If the jersey don't fit, you can't commit!

 

[NOLAIrish]

No, they aren't. Besides Diaco's epic move with Ishaq Williams what big names has he landed? Denbrock is a very good recruiter but I wouldn't put him on the 'ace' list. I do appreciate that this staff works their butts off though. That's very refreshing.

I think people really overstate South Bend being a negative. Most schools are in the middle of nowhere. Is Columbus, Ohio really any better than South Bend? Kiffin was a boss recruiter at Tennessee too lets not forget and same goes for Ed O at Ole Miss. Most of the really elite players in USC's class aren't from their backyard at all.

I don't disagree with the points on Diaco and Denbrock being a tier below Kiffin and Orgeron. But the answer to this is a resounding yes. Columbus is a legitimate city; hell, it's twice the size of New Orleans. And it's far enough away from the lake to avoid the permacloud. Sure it's not L.A. or New Orleans, but there's an actual nightlife there. I don't think this board really does overstate the negative role ND's location plays. I looked at the school twice -- once as a prospective undergrad and again as a graduate student. The first time, I ultimately decided against ND and the location was absolutely a factor.

It's a huge culture shock to go from living in a city in Louisiana, Florida, Alabama, or Mississippi to living in flyover-country Indiana. You're going from cities that support a huge variety of lifestyles to a place that essentially offers CJ's, the Backer and snow. That adjustment's being thrown on top of living away from home for the first time. And, for what it's worth, the problem does run in the other direction -- plenty of out-of-state kids burned out hard in college down here. But you don't have to leave the South to field an SEC football team.

 

[IrishLax]

Alright, I'm not one to argue needlessly when I'm apparently wrong. And judging by the reaction here.... I'm apparently very wrong.

I still don't buy that South Bend itself is actually that much of a discriminating factor when you consider the cities/towns around other schools that are top 25 in recruiting. Blacksburg, Tuscaloosa, Norman, State College, etc... what is special about those places? Nothing.

Yes, I do think a first impression of a school is a big deal and weather often plays a big role in someone's first visit (as far as getting to tour the campus among other things). Yes, I do absolutely think that there are barriers at ND that make it harder to recruit... even if it's not precisely South Bend (i.e. small school vs. big school, no athletic dorms, parietals, and other general college life things).

So overall I'll say that I think you all are right, and I'm in the wrong. The staff is definitely the best recruiting staff we've had since Holtz, at least. But I do think it could be better with a guy like Polian, Tosh, Orgeron, Kiffin, Craig, Smart, Locksley, Durkin, etc. We'll never have one though as long as we continue to pay assistants how we do. I'm actually pretty surprised we still have Denbrock and Alford.

 

[PerthDomer]

The location of ND is bad for 2 reasons. 1 is South Bend sucks and the size of the school prevents a real "college town" from existing. 2 is that Indiana is somewhat of a barren wasteland as far as talent goes. Jaylon Smith was a once in 10 years phenomena from the state. In Los Angeles you can count on a few 5 stars a year coming out of the metro area. On the whole it's a lot easier to convince kids to stay close to home than move cross country.

Give USC another year. If they get worse next year (which they should) even the school's location isn't going to overcome the fact that the team sucks. Kiffy is truly the team that keeps on giving...

 

[irish1958]

Sheldon, Martin , the Shark aren't too shabby. And Kiel might pan out.

 

[Ironman8]

Sheldon, Martin , the Shark aren't too shabby. And Kiel might pan out.

Tyler Eifert and Braxton Cave were pretty darn good as well recently for us, and Day may be another.

 

[IrishLax]

Tyler Eifert and Braxton Cave were pretty darn good as well recently for us, and Day may be another.

Plus Aldridge was a mega recruit and there are 2 five star players in this class... Indiana sure as heck isn't Florida but it's not much worse tha Louisiana or Alabama or a bunch of other states with good programs.

If anything the issue is that ND can't even ge a lot of the top players to qualify.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Hello? Gehrig Dieter??

 

[Kak7304]

Tyler Eifert and Braxton Cave were pretty darn good as well recently for us, and Day may be another.

Zack Martin has been fairly decent as well.

 

[30MilesSE]

FWIW, South Bend is getting better.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Huh? Diaco and Denbrock aren't top notch recruiters? Let's not forget U$C has the luxury of being in Southern Cali when it comes to recruiting and specifically recruiting Cali kids, but don't take anything away from some of the guys on the ND staff. You can't say that doesn't matter either because you are prone to worrying about the weather when kids visit ND. If Tosh and Orgeron and Kiffin had to recruit to South Bend they would fare very similar to ND's guys in my opinion. Take a step back, you seem more than a bit on edge about where this staff and class is at.

Great post! One more thing:

$​

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

FWIW, South Bend is getting better.

This guy should know, he is only 30 miles southeast.

 

[30MilesSE]

This guy should know, he is only 30 miles southeast.

That's where I'm from, but I'm currently a proud ND student.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

1 more tidbit the ND staff can use when recruiting.

@BFeldmanCBS: RT @BrianPolian USC, Texas, and Ohio State have never had a QB start a Super Bowl. Delaware has had 2 and Nevada now has one!

 

[PerthDomer]

Plus Aldridge was a mega recruit and there are 2 five star players in this class... Indiana sure as heck isn't Florida but it's not much worse tha Louisiana or Alabama or a bunch of other states with good programs.

If anything the issue is that ND can't even ge a lot of the top players to qualify.

Are you kidding me? Louisiana is an amazingly talent rich state and LSU is the only SEC team in state. Then there's the fact they border Texas. Alabama is much more talent dense than Indiana as well. Having Bama and Auburn hurts them a bit, but half of Bama>Indiana. Then there's being a car drive from Florida for them...

 

[IrishLax]

Are you kidding me? Louisiana is an amazingly talent rich state and LSU is the only SEC team in state. Then there's the fact they border Texas. Alabama is much more talent dense than Indiana as well. Having Bama and Auburn hurts them a bit, but half of Bama>Indiana. Then there's being a car drive from Florida for them...

I'm sorry, where is your evidence that Louisiana is an "amazingly talent rich state"? They're nowhere close to the top 5 states: Florida, California, Texas, Ohio, Georgia. They average about 1 5 player a year which is at best marginally better than Indiana... and in the short term I remember isn't better than Indiana at all.

Rivals is the only site I can figure out how to sort by state.... but here's a quick look at the past two seasons...

2013
Louisiana: 1 5, 1 high 4 (6.0), 3 mid 4 (5.9)
Indiana: 1 5, 3 mid 4 (5.9)

2012
Louisiana: 1 5, no mid or high 4... 3 low 4 (5.8)
Indiana: 1 5, no mid or high 4... 2 low 4 (5.8)

You're really going to tell me that's a big difference? Really? Come on... and in 2012 Louisiana didn't even have any high 3 talent whereas Indiana had 4 guys rated as high 3.

So no... I'm not "kidding you" when I say Indiana is 'not much worse than Louisiana.'

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I'm sorry, where is your evidence that Louisiana is an "amazingly talent rich state"? They're nowhere close to the top 5 states: Florida, California, Texas, Ohio, Georgia. They average about 1 5 player a year which is at best marginally better than Indiana... and in the short term I remember isn't better than Indiana at all.

Rivals is the only site I can figure out how to sort by state.... but here's a quick look at the past two seasons...

2013
Louisiana: 1 5, 1 high 4 (6.0), 3 mid 4 (5.9)
Indiana: 1 5, 3 mid 4 (5.9)

2012
Louisiana: 1 5, no mid or high 4... 3 low 4 (5.8)
Indiana: 1 5, no mid or high 4... 2 low 4 (5.8)

You're really going to tell me that's a big difference? Really? Come on... and in 2012 Louisiana didn't even have any high 3 talent whereas Indiana had 4 guys rated as high 3.

So no... I'm not "kidding you" when I say Indiana is 'not much worse than Louisiana.'

I'm on my phone so I hope this works.

Louisiana produces the most FBS football players per capita according to:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1118/grant_e_PastedGraphic-2_640.jpg

I realize you're talking about the aggregate but there is plenty of talent there for a single program to have on lockdown.

EDIT: I think it will work now.

Oh, and I misremembered; Hawaii is higher but Louisiana is #2.

 

[PANDFAN]

I'm on my phone so I hope this works.

Louisiana produces the most FBS football players per capita according to: http://http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&biw=320&bih=416&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=map+of+fbs+football+players+per+capita&oq=map+of+fbs+football+players+per+capita&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...15511.25534.0.25924.22.22.0.0.0.0.543.2976.0j5j3j1j0j2.11.0...0.0...1ac.1.1BJecAYudLQ#i=6

I realize you're talking about the aggregate but there is plenty of talent there for a single program to have on lockdown.

nope

 

[IrishLax]

I'm on my phone so I hope this works.

Louisiana produces the most FBS football players per capita according to: http://http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&biw=320&bih=416&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=map+of+fbs+football+players+per+capita&oq=map+of+fbs+football+players+per+capita&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3...15511.25534.0.25924.22.22.0.0.0.0.543.2976.0j5j3j1j0j2.11.0...0.0...1ac.1.1BJecAYudLQ#i=6

I realize you're talking about the aggregate but there is plenty of talent there for a single program to have on lockdown.

I get what you're saying, but per capita really is irrelevant to the discussion. It's about what kind of pool you have to work with, and when you compare 1 to 1 Indiana vs. Louisiana (which is what the original question was) there is simply not a sizable difference between the two states.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm on my phone so I hope this works.

Louisiana produces the most FBS football players per capita according to:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1118/grant_e_PastedGraphic-2_640.jpg

I realize you're talking about the aggregate but there is plenty of talent there for a single program to have on lockdown.

EDIT: I think it will work now.

Oh, and I misremembered; Hawaii is higher but Louisiana is #2.

Off topic but I remember seeing a special on TV once that stated that American Samoa produces the most NFL players per capita by an insanely large margin of any place on earth. Something about those pacific islanders....