Trump Presidency

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greyhammer90

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I'm not defending Trump in any way shape or form because he shouldn't have taken the docs with him and probably did it out of spite. I do wonder how much of this is coming from the WH? Given Trump's polling numbers are pretty good right now and the list of GOP candidates keeps growing his chances of getting nominated look decent.

The only problem with this line of thinking is that Trump appears to be the person the Dems want to win the nomination most, because there's a large number of moderates who will vote against Trump no matter what. I think Biden gets smoked by anyone who isn't as divisive as Trump.

Trump continuing to represent the Republican party is the best opportunity the Dems have has to scoop up the educated suburban whites in a generation, I don't think they want him behind bars.
 

SonofOahu

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I can't wait to see Brendan Hunt (Coach Beard) play Jack Smith in the upcoming movie about this.
 

Blazers46

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The only problem with this line of thinking is that Trump appears to be the person the Dems want to win the nomination most, because there's a large number of moderates who will vote against Trump no matter what. I think Biden gets smoked by anyone who isn't as divisive as Trump.

Trump continuing to represent the Republican party is the best opportunity the Dems have has to scoop up the educated suburban whites in a generation, I don't think they want him behind bars.
Bag one you gotta start bagging them all. I agree though. Trump will bring people to the polls to vote against him. No way I want Trump on the ticket.
 

IrishLax

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The only problem with this line of thinking is that Trump appears to be the person the Dems want to win the nomination most, because there's a large number of moderates who will vote against Trump no matter what. I think Biden gets smoked by anyone who isn't as divisive as Trump.

Trump continuing to represent the Republican party is the best opportunity the Dems have has to scoop up the educated suburban whites in a generation, I don't think they want him behind bars.
They *absolutely* want Trump to be the nominee... they even advertised/supported Trumpist candidates in the midterms for this very reason. Trump/MAGA candidates are much easier to beat in swing states because of the 3%-5% of moderate voters that will not vote for him/them.
 

ulukinatme

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The only problem with this line of thinking is that Trump appears to be the person the Dems want to win the nomination most, because there's a large number of moderates who will vote against Trump no matter what. I think Biden gets smoked by anyone who isn't as divisive as Trump.

Trump continuing to represent the Republican party is the best opportunity the Dems have has to scoop up the educated suburban whites in a generation, I don't think they want him behind bars.
I've thought the same for some time. The constant attacks and investigations only embolden his followers more, which doesn't affect the Democrats, but it likely pushes moderates further away. The goal is to throw as much mud as possible, even if there's nothing there. If they don't put him in jail they can take the moral high ground of forgiveness while still allowing him to run as a clearly flawed nominee.
 

TorontoGold

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I've thought the same for some time. The constant attacks and investigations only embolden his followers more, which doesn't affect the Democrats, but it likely pushes moderates further away. The goal is to throw as much mud as possible, even if there's nothing there. If they don't put him in jail they can take the moral high ground of forgiveness while still allowing him to run as a clearly flawed nominee.
Grand juries signed off on 34 charges in NY, plus the new 31 counts. There's pictures of the literal documents in the indictment. There isn't really any ambiguity here. Nuclear secrets were kept in a resort and shared with PAC's and reporters lol this isn't a "he said she said" thing.
 

NDMatt91

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They *absolutely* want Trump to be the nominee... they even advertised/supported Trumpist candidates in the midterms for this very reason. Trump/MAGA candidates are much easier to beat in swing states because of the 3%-5% of moderate voters that will not vote for him/them.
A few weeks ago I was listening to Clay Travis and Buck Sexton's show and they were touching on this very issue. They opened up the phone lines and focused on callers from the swing states. A guy from Georgia called in and he said he knew of several people in 2022 who voted Republican across the board with the exception of the Senate race. They wanted no part of Herschel Walker because they viewed him as being too tied to Trump. Even in a state like Ohio, which no longer appears to be a swing state, J.D. Vance underperformed Governor DeWine and other state-wide Republicans by substantial margins. These are people who AGREE with Walker and Vance on the issues given how they voted for the other Republicans, but just can't bring themselves to vote for them.

Being from Arlington, VA (NOVA), I'm sure you probably know of several people who like Glenn Youngkin and voted for him but want no part of Trump, right? They'd probably vote for nearly any Republican other than Trump in 2024.
 

SeekNDestroy

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A few weeks ago I was listening to Clay Travis and Buck Sexton's show and they were touching on this very issue. They opened up the phone lines and focused on callers from the swing states. A guy from Georgia called in and he said he knew of several people in 2022 who voted Republican across the board with the exception of the Senate race. They wanted no part of Herschel Walker because they viewed him as being too tied to Trump. Even in a state like Ohio, which no longer appears to be a swing state, J.D. Vance underperformed Governor DeWine and other state-wide Republicans by substantial margins. These are people who AGREE with Walker and Vance on the issues given how they voted for the other Republicans, but just can't bring themselves to vote for them.

Being from Arlington, VA (NOVA), I'm sure you probably know of several people who like Glenn Youngkin and voted for him but want no part of Trump, right? They'd probably vote for nearly any Republican other than Trump in 2024.
Arlington is heavily Democratic, along with all of suburban DC. He might not know any Republicans. Seriously.
 

ulukinatme

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Grand juries signed off on 34 charges in NY, plus the new 31 counts. There's pictures of the literal documents in the indictment. There isn't really any ambiguity here. Nuclear secrets were kept in a resort and shared with PAC's and reporters lol this isn't a "he said she said" thing.
The "nuclear secrets" were some details about another country's nuclear capabilities. It's not like Trump had diagrams on how to build a nuclear bomb sitting by the toilet. It's another "gotcha" clickbait title.
 

TorontoGold

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The "nuclear secrets" were some details about another country's nuclear capabilities. It's not like Trump had diagrams on how to build a nuclear bomb sitting by the toilet. It's another "gotcha" clickbait title.
1686347677473.png

This is from the indictment. What is MSM getting wrong? Those that viewed the actual documents have referred to it as "United States nuclear programs". What about that is clickbait?

If it was actually how to build a nuke that would actually be so much better because 0.00000001% of the world would actually know how to build one with those instructions.

In the past you've (I think, maybe I'm wrong so please correct me if so) stated that you never voted for Trump and would like to move on, an indictment was handed down in which he was keeping nuclear details in his resort - this is the perfect time to say "Yeah looks like he was in the wrong here". If it isn't, what would need to happen for you to say that?
 

Blazers46

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After sifting through the pages I am fine if this ends Trump and it should. Alvin Braggs indictment is very much a political show. This is very much a big deal and should be a big deal. Give the man 7 days of hookers McDonald’s and then lock his ass up.
 

GATTACA!

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I’m well aware of that but as they say politics make strange bedfellows.
They have audio of him not only admitting to the crimes but boasting about them. Surveillance video of the documents being moved inside of Mar-a-Lago. They also warned him and asked him to turn over the documents for months before they finally said fuck it and got a search warrant to go forcibly take them.

Idk how much more clear cut this can be, and why this would need the Biden admin pressuring for it to happen?
 
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SonofOahu

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After sifting through the pages I am fine if this ends Trump and it should. Alvin Braggs indictment is very much a political show. This is very much a big deal and should be a big deal. Give the man 7 days of hookers McDonald’s and then lock his ass up.
He deserves the firing squad for this treasonous shit.
 

dublinirish

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Trump is selling Pride T-shirt’s on his website now lol


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greyhammer90

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They have audio of him not only admitting to the crimes but boasting about them. Surveillance video of the documents being moved inside of Mar-a-Lago. They also warned him and asked him to turn over the documents for months before they finally said fuck it and got a search warrant to go forcibly take them.

Idk how much more clear cut this can be, and why this would need the Biden admin pressuring for it to happen?

Yeah I really don't understand where the "this is nothing" crowd is coming from. The fact that Trump is Trump isn't hurting him here, it's helping him. If these charges were leveled against any of us, we'd already be being held in a small hole underneath the federal jail.
 

ulukinatme

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View attachment 3053676

This is from the indictment. What is MSM getting wrong? Those that viewed the actual documents have referred to it as "United States nuclear programs". What about that is clickbait?

If it was actually how to build a nuke that would actually be so much better because 0.00000001% of the world would actually know how to build one with those instructions.

In the past you've (I think, maybe I'm wrong so please correct me if so) stated that you never voted for Trump and would like to move on, an indictment was handed down in which he was keeping nuclear details in his resort - this is the perfect time to say "Yeah looks like he was in the wrong here". If it isn't, what would need to happen for you to say that?

Forgive me, previously the only indication was that it was another country's nuclear capabilities. To that end it feels like small potatoes, I'm sure many countries have that kind of information, especially the big boys on the food chain. Potential vulnerabilities of the US is a different matter, that could carry a hefty price if the information got further than the writer and staffers. A good majority of the documents seem to show foreign activity that occurred during that time, quite a bit from 2017/2018 so 5-6 years ago (Probably the Syrian war). Much of that would probably be old news today, and while marked as classified it probably could and should have been declassified before he left. Likewise, while on two occasions he did show some details to the writer and a staffer some plans of attack , those plans would be years old by now and were long scrapped. None of it is good, but certainly quite a bit of that is going to be old info that means little in 2023. He's 100% in the wrong, but at the end of the day it's just humorous that Biden had classified info from his Vice Presidency, so did Pence, and probably a lot of other former politicians. Trump is the only one catching heat for it. Doesn't that seem odd?

I can assure you that the engineering of a nuke is still very much a strong concern of the US government. My father-in-law was involved in the engineering and manufacturing of nuclear triggers in the 80s and 90s. He regularly gets checked up on in retirement by federal agents to make sure he's not living beyond his means. If only those federal agents were more diligent like that about Presidents and Vice Presidents leaving the office with classified documents.

No, I've wanted conservatives to move on ages ago, but I did 100% vote for Trump in the Presidential elections in 2016 and 2020. I DID vote differently in the 2016 Primaries. With the big elections it was a "hold your nose" situation where my family and I were better off with him in charge than Hillary or Biden and I wasn't wrong there. If there was a more moderate candidate on the liberal side I'd break ranks and vote for them in the Presidential election, someone like a Bill Clinton or a Tulsi when she was still in the party.

You're missing the point a bit though. I'd love for the conservatives to move away from Trump, but the liberals don't seem to want him to step away. At this point he's so dirty with accusations it pushes a lot of independents to the other side, and the independents are the ones that really decide the big elections. Investigations and mud slinging only angers his base, it's not going to deter them. If Trump were to simply drop out at this point the attacks would have been for nothing. A fresh candidate would look much more inviting to independent voters, which is why we're speculating the liberals don't really want Trump to disappear. In the end, I feel like we've become desensitized to every "This is it!" moment because it's become like the "Boy that Cried Wolf" at this point. It's a bit hard to take any of this seriously as a result, we've been waiting for the other shoe to drop for ages and it never comes.
 

Blazers46

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Yeah I really don't understand where the "this is nothing" crowd is coming from. The fact that Trump is Trump isn't hurting him here, it's helping him. If these charges were leveled against any of us, we'd already be being held in a small hole underneath the federal jail.
“This is nothing” is a lot different than “nothing will happen”. I’m in the “nothing will happen” crowd because politicians know they are corrupt so if one goes down they will not feel as invincible and will have a target on their backs… right, wrong or indifferent.
 

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He's 100% in the wrong, but at the end of the day it's just humorous that Biden had classified info from his Vice Presidency, so did Pence, and probably a lot of other former politicians. Trump is the only one catching heat for it. Doesn't that seem odd?
No it doesn’t seem odd.

You don’t see a difference between an intern finding a few documents in the presidential library, notifying you, you tell the proper authorities and coordinate their return.

Versus purposely keeping documents. Keeping them at your personal residence. Then in the most charitable interpretation you’re at best showing them to random people just to show off. When word gets back to the authorities and they ask you to return them you give them the middle finger and play games with them until they have to come in and forcibly take them. Oh and there’s also evidence that you instructed those around you to hide the top secret documents after the FBI reached out to you.
 

ulukinatme

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No it doesn’t seem odd.

You don’t see a difference between an intern finding a few documents in the presidential library, notifying you, you tell the proper authorities and coordinate their return.

Versus purposely keeping documents. Keeping them at your personal residence. Then in the most charitable interpretation you’re at best showing them to random people just to show off. When word gets back to the authorities and they ask you to return them you give them the middle finger and play games with them until they have to come in and forcibly take them. Oh and there’s also evidence that you instructed those around you to hide the top secret documents after the FBI reached out to you.
Okay, how do you know Biden, Pence, and probably others hadn't instructed staffers to keep quiet about documents until this whole Trump event came about? Obviously nobody bothered to care about their own documents until Trump got caught red handed, and Biden's were sitting in his garage and wherever else for longer than Trump. I seriously doubt clueless Trump even knew what was in most of those bins, because by what I read in the indictment he had them stored in a spare office for awhile, then they moved to a bathroom, then I think they moved a 3rd time before they supposedly started sorting through the material. Documents were mixed in with newspaper clippings, mementos, and a lot of other crap. Honestly, if these documents are such a national security risk then why isn't the government collecting them to begin with instead of opening this kind of situation up where multiple politicians have left with these documents? Seems like bad protocol.
 

jprue24

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Okay, how do you know Biden, Pence, and probably others hadn't instructed staffers to keep quiet about documents until this whole Trump event came about?
Because there is zero evidence suggesting that they did. As you can see with Pence, intent really matters and if you OFFER up that you have the docs and in no way resist the investigation that follows...you aren't going to get in trouble.

It appears that Trump did none of the above and both Pence and Biden did.
 

TorontoGold

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Forgive me, previously the only indication was that it was another country's nuclear capabilities. To that end it feels like small potatoes, I'm sure many countries have that kind of information, especially the big boys on the food chain. Potential vulnerabilities of the US is a different matter, that could carry a hefty price if the information got further than the writer and staffers. A good majority of the documents seem to show foreign activity that occurred during that time, quite a bit from 2017/2018 so 5-6 years ago (Probably the Syrian war). Much of that would probably be old news today, and while marked as classified it probably could and should have been declassified before he left. Likewise, while on two occasions he did show some details to the writer and a staffer some plans of attack , those plans would be years old by now and were long scrapped. None of it is good, but certainly quite a bit of that is going to be old info that means little in 2023. He's 100% in the wrong, but at the end of the day it's just humorous that Biden had classified info from his Vice Presidency, so did Pence, and probably a lot of other former politicians. Trump is the only one catching heat for it. Doesn't that seem odd?

I can assure you that the engineering of a nuke is still very much a strong concern of the US government. My father-in-law was involved in the engineering and manufacturing of nuclear triggers in the 80s and 90s. He regularly gets checked up on in retirement by federal agents to make sure he's not living beyond his means. If only those federal agents were more diligent like that about Presidents and Vice Presidents leaving the office with classified documents.

No, I've wanted conservatives to move on ages ago, but I did 100% vote for Trump in the Presidential elections in 2016 and 2020. I DID vote differently in the 2016 Primaries. With the big elections it was a "hold your nose" situation where my family and I were better off with him in charge than Hillary or Biden and I wasn't wrong there. If there was a more moderate candidate on the liberal side I'd break ranks and vote for them in the Presidential election, someone like a Bill Clinton or a Tulsi when she was still in the party.

You're missing the point a bit though. I'd love for the conservatives to move away from Trump, but the liberals don't seem to want him to step away. At this point he's so dirty with accusations it pushes a lot of independents to the other side, and the independents are the ones that really decide the big elections. Investigations and mud slinging only angers his base, it's not going to deter them. If Trump were to simply drop out at this point the attacks would have been for nothing. A fresh candidate would look much more inviting to independent voters, which is why we're speculating the liberals don't really want Trump to disappear. In the end, I feel like we've become desensitized to every "This is it!" moment because it's become like the "Boy that Cried Wolf" at this point. It's a bit hard to take any of this seriously as a result, we've been waiting for the other shoe to drop for ages and it never comes.

I think the humorous part is that there are many in MSM and actual politicians that are trying to conflate the situations between any of the three (Pence/Joe/DJT). It's like if someone went to the grocery store, paid for everything and then realized they didn't scan something on the bottom of the cart. DJT didn't return all of the goods when asked and then lied about. Neither of the other two did that. If they did lie about, I would hope they get charged as well.

I don't think Kid Rock is going to be breaking the atom anytime soon. Despite claims of being surrounded by the very best, not many nuclear scientists are hanging out with Don. Who knows, maybe he was selling access to the documents but that's not in the indictment so I have no idea. It's much easier to explain to a common joe nuke details in a short form memo.

Liberal media loves Trump because he's a content machine and (shocking) they are super wealthy and don't give a shit about his policies. It requires a pretty big leap to suggest Trump's polling is because of the libs - no actual centrist or leftist is seeing Trump coverage and voting for him, and the Trump funding base isn't from liberals (although they do fund Trump surrogates in local elections).

At the end of the day, the problem isn't those who call him out on his BS and expect him to be held accountable. It's those that excuse his actions and those who created this mess. Where is the accountability for the GOP for giving this dog shit candidate? Tim Scott should be ethering Trump right now, hes a perfect candidate - not an unhinged own the libs type of guy and just sticks to typical conservative positions.

(A disclaimer - I wouldn't be upset if crime bill Joe got hit with an indictment. If the world was just, we would be on term 2 of Bernie where my friends kids aren't playing COD school deathmatch irl)

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PerthDomer

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Irish#1

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They have audio of him not only admitting to the crimes but boasting about them. Surveillance video of the documents being moved inside of Mar-a-Lago. They also warned him and asked him to turn over the documents for months before they finally said fuck it and got a search warrant to go forcibly take them.

Idk how much more clear cut this can be, and why this would need the Biden admin pressuring for it to happen?
Look, I’m not defending Trump in any way shape or form. Never voted for him and wouldn’t this time. He’s been giving everyone the finger ever since he lost. All I’m saying is I wouldn’t be surprised if the WH placed a friendly call saying “we support you” in this endeavor to get Mr. Trump.
 
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jprue24

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From what I’ve read, it sounds like there wouldn’t be any action taken if he had just returned the documents the first time he was asked. Dumbass
He could have even done a shitty job of turning them in, too. Just had to show he was trying. He would have gotten flak about it, but he wouldn't have been indicted.
 

ulukinatme

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Because there is zero evidence suggesting that they did. As you can see with Pence, intent really matters and if you OFFER up that you have the docs and in no way resist the investigation that follows...you aren't going to get in trouble.

It appears that Trump did none of the above and both Pence and Biden did.
They weren't under investigation, so of course there wouldn't be evidence. They heard Trump got busted and they said "Hey, we might have some too." What happened before that we'll never know, but there's a good chance at least some staffers knew they existed and nobody said anything. It's not like Biden hauled his boxes into his garage personally. But yeah, Trump was the only one stupid enough to laugh it off.
 
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