Trump Presidency

[IrishLax]

Nope. Revolution effectively ended in late 59. He traveled to the US in late 59 and stated that he wanted to work with the US.

Nope. Actually had to go to Wikipedia, because your sheer confidence in your "facts" had me second guessing.

On February 16, 1959, Castro was sworn in as Prime Minister of Cuba.[127] In April he visited the U.S. on a charm offensive where he met Vice President Richard Nixon, whom he instantly disliked. Although refusing to categorize his regime as socialist and repeatedly denying being a communist, Castro appointed Marxists to senior government and military positions. Most notably, Che Guevara became Governor of the Central Bank and then Minister of Industries. Appalled, Air Force commander Pedro Luis Díaz Lanz defected to the U.S.[134] Although President Urrutia denounced the defection, he expressed concern with the rising influence of Marxism. Angered, Castro in turn announced his resignation as Prime Minister, blaming Urrutia for complicating government with his "fevered anti-Communism". Over 500,000 Castro-supporters surrounded the Presidential Palace demanding Urrutia's resignation, which he submitted. On July 23, Castro resumed his Premiership and appointed Marxist Osvaldo Dorticós as President.

So he becomes PM in April 1959, visits the US in April, then visits a bunch of other countries and immediately pivots by 1960 to the USSR. In less than a year he aligns with our biggest enemy. But you say "Castro didn't immediately align himself with anybody"... ??? It's all right there, documented in history.

Rest of your timeline from 1960 onward is correct.

If you want to sympathize with a mass murdering brutal dictator who oppressed a nation of people for his own enrichment and power that's your call. You and Trudeau can be the co-Presidents of the "Oppression and Murder is OK as Long as the Dictator is a Lefty" fan club.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If you want to sympathize with a mass murdering brutal dictator who oppressed a nation of people for his own enrichment and power that's your call. You and Trudeau can be the co-Presidents of the "Oppression and Murder is OK as Long as the Dictator is a Lefty" fan club.

Do you think Batista was a good guy?

The Fidel question is an interesting one because it mirrors plenty of other Cold War conflicts. The US supported a repressive dictator, a civil war ensued and a dictator who wasn't under an American thumb rose and we claimed we're simply fighting the good fight for democracy and capitalism...

Fidel Castro & Friends beat a murdering dictator backed by the US. It has been estimated that Batista killed ~20,000 Cubans in the 1950s. It simply wasn't a peachy time on the island under American influence, that can be said for most of Latin America.

Economically plenty of Cubans were unhappy with the situation that they saw as American mercantilism:

Secondly, in a manner certain to antagonize the Cuban people, we used the influence of our Government to advance the interests of and increase the profits of the private American companies, which dominated the island's economy. At the beginning of 1959 U.S. companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands - almost all the cattle ranches - 90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions - 80 percent of the utilities - and practically all the oil industry - and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports.

Of course, our private investment did much to help Cuba. But our action too often gave the impression that this country was more interested in taking money from the Cuban people than in helping them build a strong and diversified economy of their own. [Sauce.]

As for allying with the USSR, what do you expect? Cuba is an island like 100 miles from the greatest power in history, which it had antagonized by nationalizing its corporations' holdings. Allying itself with the USSR was a way to prevent an American invasion. Obviously it's understandable that Americans would shake their head and being buddies with the Soviets, but then again most Americans don't know the history of American influence in the Caribbean/Latin America. I think there is an argument to be made that Cuba found itself between a rock and a hard place as a key piece in the Cold War feud.

Ultimately Fidel Castro gets an asterisk from many on the Left because during his time in power there was a real commitment to health care and education for his people and both Cuban systems outclass their Caribbean counterparts. How many dictators has the US supported who didn't give a flying fuck about any of that? That's why he gets an asterisk. That doesn't mean, at all, that the Left has excused his political repression and all of the murders, which are of course deplorable.

 

[Rizzophil]

Anyone see the two responses by Obama and Trump regarding Castro's death? Obama was a fucking wet noodle. Trudeau was even worse. Trump was the only one to mention what a scummy piece of shit Castro was, with is firing squads and human rights violations. The left still wonders why Trump won

Obama is the worst Pres in my lifetime

Plus he spent $10 tril with nothing to show for it. Now Trump has to figure out a way to pay back that money

 

[Buster Bluth]

Obama is the worst Pres in my lifetime

Plus he spent $10 tril with nothing to show for it. Now Trump has to figure out a way to pay back that money

Obama isn't even the worst President this century.

Obama didn't spend trillions, Obama, Congress and the system (ie obligations that predate Obama) spent trillions.

But here's the fun part: under Obama the US deficit has been reduced by more nominal dollars than any President in history. Literally a trillion dollars have been wiped off the deficit. That's because government don't "pay back that money" in a conventional sense, but grow out of their debt, which it has been doing despite what Conservative media outlets are telling you.

If you are expecting Trump and the GOP Congress to suddenly attempt to reduce the deficit, you're going to be disappointed. Republicans don't care about the debt, because they know what every economist knows: US Treasury bonds are the safest investment in the world, the cost of borrowing is at historically low rates that incentivize the US, the US has borrowing power the average American can't even grasp, and the debt situation isn't nearly as bad as fools make it out to be.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Yeah there's no empirical case whatsoever for Obama as the worst president in any time frame. I mean everyone's entitled to their own subjective opinion but whether you look at economic indicators, approval ratings, or just about any other piece of data available the case just can't be made.

 

[IrishLax]

Do you think Batista was a good guy?

Of course not. And what Batista did has literally nothing to do with how Castro should be evaluated on his merits.

Ultimately Fidel Castro gets an asterisk from many on the Left because during his time in power there was a real commitment to health care and education for his people and both Cuban systems outclass their Caribbean counterparts. How many dictators has the US supported who didn't give a flying fuck about any of that? That's why he gets an asterisk. That doesn't mean, at all, that the Left has excused his political repression and all of the murders, which are of course deplorable.

And that's crap, because when you read what Trudeau said and what Kaepernick said and what any other their "woke" Far Left Marxist ilk they don't condemn any of the atrocities. If they aren't excusing them, then I don't know what the heck you call those statements about "larger than life" Castro. Any world leader that acts that way is either naive, evil, or a coward.

It absolutely boils my blood to see Trudeau lecture the world on ethics and "standing up to hate" and progressive ideals while lauding Fidel fucking Castro. It is hypocrisy at its finest to see the Left lose their minds over Trump's cabinet nominee being "anti-gay" and then say "that Castro sure was a swell guy!" when he imprisoned and murdered homosexuals for their sexual preference and stomped on human rights.

 

[Rizzophil]

Yeah there's no empirical case whatsoever for Obama as the worst president in any time frame. I mean everyone's entitled to their own subjective opinion but whether you look at economic indicators, approval ratings, or just about any other piece of data available the case just can't be made.

Syria / Middle East is on fire

The amount of cover ups in the Obama regime is insane. Fast and furious. Benghazi. IRS. Department of justice.

Race baiting is at an all time high.

50 mil Americans aren't working

Economy is at a standstill. Housing market is artificially propped up bc the interest rates are artificially low. When rates go up buying power will go down and housing prices will go down too

The use of executive order is through the roof. How can a president use executive order for immigration. It's a mockery

Not one person voted for his budget bills

10 tril and nothing to show for it

He totally disrespected Israel who is our only ally in Middle East


Should I keep going? Just bc the A Press is his lap dog doesn't mean he did anything. He passed Dodd Frank and Obama Care. Both of which are dumpster fires

 

[Bluto]

Of course not. And what Batista did has literally nothing to do with how Castro should be evaluated on his merits.



And that's crap, because when you read what Trudeau said and what Kaepernick said and what any other their "woke" Far Left Marxist ilk they don't condemn any of the atrocities. If they aren't excusing them, then I don't know what the heck you call those statements about "larger than life" Castro. Any world leader that acts that way is either naive, evil, or a coward.

It absolutely boils my blood to see Trudeau lecture the world on ethics and "standing up to hate" and progressive ideals while lauding Fidel fucking Castro. It is hypocrisy at its finest to see the Left lose their minds over Trump's cabinet nominee being "anti-gay" and then say "that Castro sure was a swell guy!" when he imprisoned and murdered homosexuals for their sexual preference and stomped on human rights.

I never once stated any support for Castro. I do however, understand why Castro and to a much greater extent Che are revered throughout much of the region. Now, if Castro being defended by people on the left makes your blood boil I would imagine Reagan's foreign policy in the Americas and the constatnt proclamations of what a great guy he was must really churn your stomach.

 

[johnnycando]

I never once stated any support for Castro. I do however, understand why Castro and to a much greater extent Che are revered throughout much of the region. Now, if Castro being defended by people on the left makes your blood boil I would imagine Reagan's foreign policy in the Americas and the constatnt proclamations of what a great guy he was must really churn your stomach.

Trump won.

Reagan was great.

Suck a pecker.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

Syria / Middle East is on fire

The amount of cover ups in the Obama regime is insane. Fast and furious. Benghazi. IRS. Department of justice.

Race baiting is at an all time high.

50 mil Americans aren't working

Economy is at a standstill. Housing market is artificially propped up bc the interest rates are artificially low. When rates go up buying power will go down and housing prices will go down too

The use of executive order is through the roof. How can a president use executive order for immigration. It's a mockery

Not one person voted for his budget bills

10 tril and nothing to show for it

He totally disrespected Israel who is our only ally in Middle East


Should I keep going? Just bc the A Press is his lap dog doesn't mean he did anything. He passed Dodd Frank and Obama Care. Both of which are dumpster fires

 

[kmoose]

Yeah there's no empirical case whatsoever for Obama as the worst president in any time frame. I mean everyone's entitled to their own subjective opinion but whether you look at economic indicators, approval ratings, or just about any other piece of data available the case just can't be made.

Oh Yeah???

He's unequivocally the worst President the US has had, since Jan. 20, 2009!

 

[IrishinSyria]

Oh Yeah???

He's unequivocally the worst President the US has had, since Jan. 20, 2009!

I concede the point.

To paraphrase Zach Galifiankis, for a younger generation of Americans, Trump will be the first white president they've ever had. And that's something.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Syria / Middle East is on fire

The amount of cover ups in the Obama regime is insane. Fast and furious. Benghazi. IRS. Department of justice.

Race baiting is at an all time high.

50 mil Americans aren't working

Economy is at a standstill. Housing market is artificially propped up bc the interest rates are artificially low. When rates go up buying power will go down and housing prices will go down too

The use of executive order is through the roof. How can a president use executive order for immigration. It's a mockery

Not one person voted for his budget bills

10 tril and nothing to show for it

He totally disrespected Israel who is our only ally in Middle East


Should I keep going? Just bc the A Press is his lap dog doesn't mean he did anything. He passed Dodd Frank and Obama Care. Both of which are dumpster fires

You just made Syria's point. Very little data...just feels

 

[Buster Bluth]

Of course not. And what Batista did has literally nothing to do with how Castro should be evaluated on his merits.

Strongly disagree here. I think Cuba's failures and successes need to be judged against Batista, a hypothetical future remaining in America's orbit, and the greater Latin American situation.

And that's crap, because when you read what Trudeau said and what Kaepernick said

Dude you're way too smart to give Kaepernick any of your attention or think for a moment that he is important. He's a dumb jock.

and what any other their "woke" Far Left Marxist ilk they don't condemn any of the atrocities. If they aren't excusing them, then I don't know what the heck you call those statements about "larger than life" Castro. Any world leader that acts that way is either naive, evil, or a coward.

It absolutely boils my blood to see Trudeau lecture the world on ethics and "standing up to hate" and progressive ideals while lauding Fidel fucking Castro. It is hypocrisy at its finest to see the Left lose their minds over Trump's cabinet nominee being "anti-gay" and then say "that Castro sure was a swell guy!" when he imprisoned and murdered homosexuals for their sexual preference and stomped on human rights.

Well there's a key difference on that gay point: it's 2016, and the United States is a western nation. There is a higher bar in the West than there is elsewhere.

Canada's position has been pretty much the one that the United States has come to adopt: the best way to initiate change and progress is through trade, travel, open dialogue, etc. That's what made the US embargo so absurd (I mean we'll open China and work with them while we simultaneously apply pressure for human rights, why not Cuba? Hint: Soviets and politics.)

But specifically for Trudeau, The Trudeau family has been close to Castro for decades. Castro was a pallbearer at the elder Trudeau's funeral. Trudeau isn't speaking for the Left here, Castro is literally a family friend. There is an American equivalent of being friends with dictators.

 

[Rizzophil]

If Obama was so great why wasn't Hillary elected in a landslide? Why are democratic governors down 20% since Obama got elected? He stinks

 

[Buster Bluth]

If Obama was so great why wasn't Hillary elected in a landslide? Why are democratic governors down 20% since Obama got elected? He stinks

Because those people aren't Obama?

And who said he was great?

 

[IrishinSyria]

If Obama was so great why wasn't Hillary elected in a landslide? Why are democratic governors down 20% since Obama got elected? He stinks

1. Because HRC isn't Obama.

2. Because empirical evidence isn't everything in politics.

3. Because the people who were least happy with Obama have a disproportionate amount of voting power.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Because those people aren't Obama?

And who said he was great?

I actually do think he was kind of great but yeah that wasn't my point.

 

[IrishLax]

But specifically for Trudeau, The Trudeau family has been close to Castro for decades. Castro was a pallbearer at the elder Trudeau's funeral. Trudeau isn't speaking for the Left here, Castro is literally a family friend. There is an American equivalent of being friends with dictators.

Right, which is exactly my point.

There is a big difference between managing a relationship with a country and a leader who is less-than-desirable for diplomatic reasons... and being personally supportive and friends with someone that by all objective measures is evil. Trudeau can not self-style himself the moral authority of the West and an anti-hate progressive while associating with and supporting someone like Castro. It's not just a diplomatic strategy, it is being friends with him and everything that implies.

Consider the David Duke/Trump controversy from when Trump didn't immediately disavow him. Would you or anyone with a brain tolerate Trump being friends with a morally bankrupt person like David Duke? Now realize that the Castro is orders of magnitude worse than Duke in terms of actual oppression he has enacted on people.

Maybe I'm biased from the Cubans I know but the stories they have is some of the most tragic stuff I have ever heard. And it's Castro's doing. Anyone who is "friends" with that kind of person can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned. What a time to be alive when Trump of all people is the world leader showing moral clarity on this issue.

 

[Bluto]

Here's an interesting piece from the Cato Institute circa 1985 that discusses the US relationships with oppressive regimes. Also briefly talks about Cuba.

https://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa058.html

 

[IrishinSyria]

In-between watching Westworld and reading our President Elect's Twitter account lately I've been think a lot about Simulacra and Simulation and the precession of Simulacra. I stumbled upon this essay by Baudrillard and it seems as relevant today as it was 25 years ago- maybe more so.

 

[johnnycando]

In-between watching Westworld and reading our President Elect's Twitter account lately I've been think a lot about Simulacra and Simulation and the precession of Simulacra. I stumbled upon this essay by Baudrillard and it seems as relevant today as it was 25 years ago- maybe more so.

I think it's hilarious you think yourself to be such an intellect; yet you feed from this liberal dumpyard.

Shit in, shit out.

 

[AllGoldEverything]

I am an independent completely, but does it concern anyone else that trump does not have any political experience? I just worry about his ability to handle everything.

I hope change is coming, I just hope this change works out for everyone.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I am an independent completely, but does it concern anyone else that trump does not have any political experience? I just worry about his ability to handle everything.

I hope change is coming, I just hope this change works out for everyone.

The lack of any political experience has the potential to be problematic, but it's certainly no guarantee that it will be. Ike had no political experience before being elected president, though you could certainly argue that his experience in WWII counted for a lot. Reagan had none before being elected governor of California. A number of senators & presidents were retired military guys who'd never held office before. Maybe what we need is someone who's not a professional career politician and can approach things a bit differently. I think that his lack of political experience won't be a problem if he surrounds himself with the right people who do have experience and he listens to their advice.

 

[AllGoldEverything]

The lack of any political experience has the potential to be problematic, but it's certainly no guarantee that it will be. Ike had no political experience before being elected president, though you could certainly argue that his experience in WWII counted for a lot. Reagan had none before being elected governor of California. A number of senators & presidents were retired military guys who'd never held office before. Maybe what we need is someone who's not a professional career politician and can approach things a bit differently. I think that his lack of political experience won't be a problem if he surrounds himself with the right people who do have experience and he listens to their advice.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. You are exactly right, other presidents have done it. What do you think about Bannon though?

 

[Bishop2b5]

What do you think about Bannon though?

I know almost nothing about him, so I'm completely unqualified to offer any opinion. I like Trump's choice of Sessions as AG.

 

[Buster Bluth]

The lack of any political experience has the potential to be problematic, but it's certainly no guarantee that it will be. Ike had no political experience before being elected president, though you could certainly argue that his experience in WWII counted for a lot. Reagan had none before being elected governor of California. A number of senators & presidents were retired military guys who'd never held office before. Maybe what we need is someone who's not a professional career politician and can approach things a bit differently.

Ike's role as head honcho of the Allies probably trumps any experience one could hope to have before being the leader of the free world. Reagan's terms as governor showed he could delegate his way through an administration, which is what he did as President.

I respect the opinion that someone from outside the Beltway could offer some needed views, but that 1) was the exact opposite of the GOP's position just eight years ago and 2) logically doesn't mean the absence of experience is a positive every time.

I think that his lack of political experience won't be a problem if he surrounds himself with the right people who do have experience and he listens to their advice.

We thought this would be the case for George Bush, and the result was disastrous. He surrounded himself with "top" Republicans who knew how to work the system and they worked said system right into the Iraq War. That's what makes all of these Bolton/Guiliani rumors terrifying to me. Neither of those guys have any reason to be in a position of power like Secretary of State or anything near the President for that matter.

The worry with Trump is that he hasn't ever demonstrated an ability to be levelheaded when someone "wrongs" him. Donald Trump in the Situation Room could be a disaster as global adversaries play this narcissist as the fool he has been on the campaign trail.

 

[theclassickiller]

1. Because HRC isn't Obama.

2. Because empirical evidence isn't everything in politics.

3. Because the people who were least happy with Obama have a disproportionate amount of voting power.

Are you being serious here? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the left was convinced they would win because of the "blue wall." It's pretty much widely accepted at this point that a Republican candidate is at a disadvantage from the get-go.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Are you being serious here? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the left was convinced they would win because of the "blue wall." It's pretty much widely accepted at this point that a Republican candidate is at a disadvantage from the get-go.

Widely accepted by who? Dems have won 6 out of the past 7 popular votes and 4 out of 7 elections. The evidence certainly does not seem to point to a structural Dem advantage.

But that's not actually the point I was making with that- it was very specific to people who were not happy with Obama. That group somewhat overlaps with Dems, but it also includes a lot of rust belt voters who were traditionally dem voting union workers but who showed up bigly this year for Trump.

It's a group of people that voted for Obama (in places like West Virginia and a lot of industrial districts in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Ohio) and voted overwhelmingly for Trump in this election.

I posted a link somewhere in this thread showing the average voting power of a voter by state. A voter in Ohio has something like 100x the voting power of an average American voter, so the fact that they swung so hard from Obama to Trump was a big freaking deal in this election- way bigger than their share of the population would suggest.

 

[ickythump1225]

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