Trump Presidency Round 2

ulukinatme

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Since posting the $750, I Saw a couple of post mentioning the refund would be $5,000 so who knows.

See, I'm not even on board with $5,000. While $5,000 would initially be life changing for many low income households, I could also see where it would result in rapid inflation again. $750 is enough to make many people happy, but it's not going to lead to car lots being wiped of their used inventory.
 

ulukinatme

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Have read the goal should be to owe zero on taxes and not have a refund or pay. Are you claiming zero on your pay?

I've changed my withholding so I'm no longer counting the kids for tax purposes just because we've had to pay so much the last few years. My wife's income is kinda screwy right now. She works for a non-profit in health care and they give out crazy bonuses some years when they have extra revenue, well into five figure bonuses some years, which is wild to me. Some years she gets almost nothing, and of course it's pre-taxed either way. Her pay can fluctuate year to year as a result, she makes less yearly than me, but as mentioned we're still less than 150k gross combined. We still ended up paying a couple hundred in taxes last year which was less than previous years.
 
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NDVirginia19

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Once you get into the >150k threshold you are essentially a tax cow the government is milking because they are shameless cowards to effectively tax corporations appropriately.
I always find this funny especially in light of the left attacking tariffs for the tax getting passed on to the consumer. Who exactly do you think ends up actually paying the taxes on corporations?

At least a tariff in theory protects US industry and workers by artificially promoting domestically produced goods. Taxing corporations has the safe effect on theory to consumers and promotes corporations to relocate
 

TorontoGold

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I always find this funny especially in light of the left attacking tariffs for the tax getting passed on to the consumer. Who exactly do you think ends up actually paying the taxes on corporations?

At least a tariff in theory protects US industry and workers by artificially promoting domestically produced goods. Taxing corporations has the safe effect on theory to consumers and promotes corporations to relocate
This isn’t for debate. I am paid well to see this these strategies through. Clients will always focus on their personal taxes more so than their corporate rates. I could save them $300k corporately but their personal taxes go up only $50k and they lose it. We’re all conditioned to think “it just makes sense for me to pay more in taxes than the corporate class”.

I am not even advocating for increasing rates. Enforce your fucking tax residency treaties and stop letting corporate profits be offshored. It’s a real wonder why this isn’t some sort of nationalist talking point, why oh why wouldn’t Elon Musk ever want to address these types of things! But yeah, let’s use tariffs that worked in the 1800’s because that’s sound economic policy.

I am willing to bet that Uluk is paying a higher marginal tax rate than I client I have who earns ~5M in California (~50M is gross revs). It is insane to me.

Tariffs are fucking stupid because there is always a carve out and way to get exemptions. I had a client who the last time Trump did the steel tariffs was shipping steel up to Canada and conducting business for his American clients from Toronto because of certain provisions that made it so he didn’t have to pay the 25%. All this so some redneck who has no clue what a tariff is can get excited but they closed a shop up in Louisville because it didn’t make financial sense for them.

Some of us think tax dollars earned in the US should be kept in the US and others think it’s funny to want that. Maybe DOGE can tackle that lol
 

Irish#1

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Have read the goal should be to owe zero on taxes and not have a refund or pay. Are you claiming zero on your pay?
That's always been what they experts have said as long as I can remember. I think a lot of people prefer to have more taken out for a couple of reasons.
1. They don't want to play it so close to the vest that they end up having to pay.
2. Aside from all the arguments why you shouldn't do this, some like the idea of getting a refund because they are able to buy something without a big impact to their pocketbook or savings.
 

calvegas04

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Musk is upset about community notes correcting the propaganda him and Trump are putting out
 

TorontoGold

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Kind of amusing considering Trump is working on reducing our government's footprint and control, while Zelensky just cancelled Ukraine's elections again...the average American isn't well informed though.
Correct, the average American doesn't know that Ukraine's constitution that doesn't allow for elections in a period of martial law.
 

Giddyup

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Correct, the average American doesn't know that Ukraine's constitution that doesn't allow for elections in a period of martial law.
Uh yeah. Lift martial law and run an election. Trump muh threat to democracy or Zelensky
 

NDVirginia19

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Lol the amount of misinformation being spread online about this is astronomical. As I am intimately involved in this specific task, I can't really speak on it, but to claim that the current budget drill going around the DOD is to cut the department by 40% is completely wrong
 

BuaConstrictor

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Kind of amusing considering Trump is working on reducing our government's footprint and control,
Reducing the government footprint and control...as he's actively wanting to annex Canada, Greenland, the Panama Canal, and wants control over Gaza......not to mention his attempts at expanding executive control by trying to sign EO's that are unconstitutional.

Weird way of showing it.
 
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Irish#1

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She was all for sending money during COVID, but $5,000 isn't going to benefit anyone? lol

 

drayer54

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Reducing the government footprint and control...as he's actively wanting to annex Canada, Greenland, the Panama Canal, and wants control over Gaza......not to mention his attempts at expanding executive control by trying to sign EO's at are unconstitutional.

Weird way of showing it.
He wants security in the arctic and the Panama canal, where the precious administration had China encroaching. He's not taking Gaza, trying to get the region to take control of those people. He's not the first nor last to use Eos. Border traffic is way down despite no bipartisan border bill- something we were told couldn't be achieved just last year. Reducing bureaucrats and regulation is indeed reducing government.
 

RDU Irish

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I would be real curious what the self-deportation numbers look like. Not sure how you would track that but lots of anecdotal evidence that it a significant movement.
 

BuaConstrictor

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He wants security in the arctic and the Panama canal, where the precious administration had China encroaching. He's not taking Gaza, trying to get the region to take control of those people. He's not the first nor last to use Eos. Border traffic is way down despite no bipartisan border bill- something we were told couldn't be achieved just last year. Reducing bureaucrats and regulation is indeed reducing government.
Wading through the vast amounts of typos in here...I'll do the best I can.

You don't need to annex Canada and Panama to have security in those places. Frankly, the security bogeyman he has imagined re: China, didn't exist there to begin with. This wasn't something that happened under the "previous" Administration. The Hong King based company had ports in the canal for over two decades. You're not accurate in your assertion.

Greenland isn't about security (we already operate bases there via NATO with Denmark's blessing), it's about natural resources for (ironically) green energy and what Musk can profit from there if anything were to happen.

Your characterization of "taking control" of "those people" in Gaza says quite a bit. Even taking your wrong view of it at face value, Trump has directly said it's not about taking control of them to keep them in the area, he's talking about an ethnic cleansing in Gaza and forcing them to move to other countries.

In any case his plan(s) for the areas, by definition, expands the footprint of the US Government.

You mention he's not the first or last to use EO's. That wasn't the point of what I said. I specifically stated his use of EO's that are attempting to be used to enforce actions that are unconstitutional. If you'd like to address that specific claim, go for it.


1. If your litmus test for reducing "bureaucrats" is all that is needed for reduction in government then you would have loved Bill Clinton......ANYWHO...you've made a reduction in government an inherently good thing. It's not. Could it be? Sure. Could it be bad? Sure. Reducing the IRS the way has/is attempting to actually handcuffs the way we collect tax revenue...which is kind of important. He tried to reduce government over the nuclear stockpile, not a good idea for obvious reasons.

Principally, I'm not against the idea of reducing "wasteful" spending, but that devil in that is in the details. Trump and his cronies have painted USAID, who accounts for something like .015% of the entire federal budget, as some great "waste" of money. Are there some things on the line items that I kind of roll my eyes at? Sure....but that's true of any department in history...US Govt or not. The issue is Trump and Co are painting every spend they ideologically disagree with as "fraud". It's not. They just disagree with the spend. USAID did A LOT of good around the world in helping developing nations facing disease, famine, and the like. They were one of the biggest weapons we had in combating the AIDS epidemic in Africa.


2. Trump is not reducing regulation. He's actually increasing regulation and enforcement, but it's on topics that you agree with. For example, the memo his DoE sent out a week is actually an increase in regulation of K-12 schools as well as public/private universities, but I'm sure you'll say that's fine...because you agree with the memo from an ideological standpoint.

Lastly, re: border traffic being down...

Unsurprisingly the White House is getting cute with numbers. ..or flat out refusing to report comparative numbers to the Biden border.

In any case, the border bill wasn't simply about reducing border encounters. It was about better managing the immigration process into the US. It called for better controls/more control over entry and how to actually manage the crossings. Trump's "plan" or actions don't really address that, he's basically just ended immigration in general..he's literally made it impossible to schedule a meeting/encounter at the border.... and is refusing to report comparable numbers.

Immigration in general is a net positive for the economy. At some point Trump will have to re-open the border so to speak and he doesn't have any enforcement arm to make the process work. The border bill he killed actually made it more difficult to claim asylum and legally immigrate to the US anyways...so now when the border is re-opened (and it will be) he's ended the app that made immigration possible/more efficient, and has no bill on being stricter on asylum seekers and the like. Biden EO'd something a year ago constricting asylum seekers reasons for entering. The bi-partisan bill constricted those reasons even more...and part of the bill provided for more judges to more quickly adjudicate those cases to reduce the amount of asylum seekers being allowed entry into the country while awaiting their court date.

As with most(all?) things Trump does...it is nice red meat for his base who don't know anything about..well..anything...but long term there is no plan and generally things will become worse as a result.

Boiling the border bill down to simply being about reducing encounters is counterfactual. It was part of a larger comprehensive plan for longer term border security and immigration management that sought to address the root causes of the crisis.
 
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calvegas04

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I would be real curious what the self-deportation numbers look like. Not sure how you would track that but lots of anecdotal evidence that it a significant movement.
Which evidence? If people want to self deport that is fine. I don't think people are mass leaving the country tho
 

RDU Irish

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Which evidence? If people want to self deport that is fine. I don't think people are mass leaving the country tho

Kids leaving school to return to country of origin, parents of newborns leaving country b/c they aren't here legally, Spanish mass attendance down significantly - I said anecdotal. You seem like the type to deny the sky is blue unless there is an official government blue ribbon panel decree "proving" it.

It is possible to theorize and speculate on things without knowing the answer. Your behavior suggests you are overly susceptible to confirmation bias and easily manipulated due to demands that everything is either black or white.
 

BuaConstrictor

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If people want to self deport that is fine.
I would disagree on this in a certain respect. You have people self-deporting who are here legally but still feel unsafe.

Link: Some immigrants are already leaving the U.S. in 'self-deportations' as Trump's threats loom

Kids who are here legally or birthright citizens are now staying home from school.

In one sense "self-deportation" is "fine." If we are talking strictly about people who are here illegally and involved in criminal activity(and how much do we trust criminals to self-regulate anyways...do we really think this is the primary population doing so?)....in other cases it's not fine...and the bigger more philosophical thing that we need to be looking at is the tone, tenor, and stance we have taken as a country that makes even legal immigrants not feel welcomed or safe here. Attitude reflects leadership....
 
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BuaConstrictor

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Everyone who is here illegally is involved in criminal behavior.
Did I say they were not?

Most times when discussing the topic the people that most Americans want deported aren't the illegal immigrants that have come here and are working menial hourly work but they are worried about the illegal immigrants here who are involved in additional illegal activity once here.

Besides that, you have the current government morphing and changing what the term "illegal" even means. People here legally under DACA are being referred to as "illegal" by some on this administration...and they are actively trying to get it overturned so they are illegal.

More broadly, if your position is to deport every illegal immigrant from the US regardless of what they have or haven't done since coming to the US, good luck with that. I think conditional amnesty with a pathway to citizenship(which needs to be overhauled anyways) is a more viable solution and one that would serve to perhaps not crash certain sectors in the economy.

All that being said...my biggest takeaway with the recent conversation is still:
"
the bigger more philosophical thing that we need to be looking at is the tone, tenor, and stance we have taken as a country that makes even legal immigrants not feel welcomed or safe here. Attitude reflects leadership....

"
 

Irish#1

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Did I say they were not?

Most times when discussing the topic the people that most Americans want deported aren't the illegal immigrants that have come here and are working menial hourly work but they are worried about the illegal immigrants here who are involved in additional illegal activity once here.

Besides that, you have the current government morphing and changing what the term "illegal" even means. People here legally under DACA are being referred to as "illegal" by some on this administration...and they are actively trying to get it overturned so they are illegal.

More broadly, if your position is to deport every illegal immigrant from the US regardless of what they have or haven't done since coming to the US, good luck with that. I think conditional amnesty with a pathway to citizenship(which needs to be overhauled anyways) is a more viable solution and one that would serve to perhaps not crash certain sectors in the economy.

All that being said...my biggest takeaway with the recent conversation is still:
"
the bigger more philosophical thing that we need to be looking at is the tone, tenor, and stance we have taken as a country that makes even legal immigrants not feel welcomed or safe here. Attitude reflects leadership....

"
It was the previous administration that redefined it. We're simply going back to what it has been for over a hundred years.

Why would legal immigrants feel unsafe? I have a gentleman that works for me. Born and spent the majority of his life in Mexico. We've talked about this topic. He came through legally and is not afraid of getting deported. He prefers everyone enter through the proper channels.
 
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