Times are a changing

irishmarine

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Being that I have just started following the recruitin trends since crists class, I realize I don't have a deep history to pull from. However, I don't remember a time recently when we were pulling recruits from oter teams as we seem to be this year. We have lost some kids but we are also pulling kids. This late in the game is usually when we are watching kids go to other schools (ie Florida) we added a OT today, are in therunning for even more. Is it the coaches? The team? The hope we have rebuilt? Am I wrong or is this the mos excited we have Been about our future in quite some time? Hail to the Irish!!!!!
 

NewEnglandGuy

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The last time we ended the season on a 4+ game winning streak was in 1992. <---BIG reason why!
 

IHateMarkMay

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I thought this thread was about Bob Dylan... lol

It's nice to see us finish strong for once. I only started since Clausen's class. Those years we came in limping at the finish line it felt like.
 

BGIF

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Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'

An apt song for recruiting. Constant changes in recruiting, those that don't keep up get left behind. Joe Paterno was instrumental in using oncampus camps for recruit evaluation. He also was the driving force in getting early commitments making recruiting a 12 month enterprise.

At ND Lou Holtz had uberrecruiter Vinny Cerrato who was probably the reason for the first airline frequent flyer program. Cerrato had a keen eye for talent and a was a smooth talker. I think it was at the '88 Fiesta Bowl long before the BCS when #1 ND played #3 WVU with the NC on the line that Cerrato called QB recruit Rick Mirer and told him via his 5 pound cell phone what play ND was running on the next snap. (The NCAA later banned that practice.) Cerrato pulled in classes that were loaded with 5 Star talent before today's recruiting services were a twinkle in somebody's eye. He didn't coach a position, he was a full time recruiter. He did the evaluations and Lou made the house calls to close. Opposing coaches passed an NCAA rule that limited the number of assistant coaches and banned the full time recruiter position and required each assistant be an on field coach. Cerrato left ND to become the head of player personnel for the Washington Redskins.

Back in those days, ND's coach could not offer a scholarship until ND Admissions said so. They usually didn't say so until the getting mid semsester grades for the recruit's Senior Year. As other school pushed out offers early and got commitments ND's pool dwindled. Holtz and Cerrato had a running battle with ND Admissions over borderline recruits. ND had accepted Prop 48's one year as an experiment. While it was a staple in the SEC and elsewhere, ND dropped it after the one year trial. Acrimony between the coaching staff and Admissions grew. Holtz would slow play Admissions into December or early January that a questionable recruit's transcript was "unavailable". Rather than get an early rejection for kid that was obviously not going to get Admissions approval, he tried finessing (or forcing the issue) at the 11th hour. It came to a head with Randy Moss in 1995. He sent in an LOI but he and another academically deficient recruit (who went on to star at Miami) were rejected by ND Admissions after Signing Day. A year later Holtz resigned.

Bob Davie for all his faults built ND's summer camp into a recruiting tool following the success Joe Pa had with them. With Holtz gone ND Admissions again set a hard line on admission ciritera. I think it was during the Holtz era the the NCAA established more stringent Test and GPA requiements including a specified number of core courses. Problem was the NCAA required 12 core courses and ND required 16. Those 4 extra courses knocked out a lot of prospects who lacked the math or science ND wanted. Davie acquiesed to Admsisions (as did Willingham). There was some marginal recruits admitted but a rarity. Over the last few years that course gap has closed as the NCAA now requires all students have 16 core courses. Back in the mid 90's only 5 or 6 colleges like ND, Stanford, and Vandy required the extra 4 courses.

When Weis became HC he approached Admisisions in a spirit of cooperation rather than seeing them as the adversary they were with Holtz and Cerrato. Weis came to understand where Admissions was "flexible" and worked with them. He got transcripts in early so those recruits that wanted ND but needed more work could get it done on a timely basis. Weis and his assistants got to juniors and told them what courses they needed to take or take over to get Admissions OK. Weis also hit the bricks more than any other ND HC seeking out recruits and buildig relationships with HS coaches like the in-state coaches routinely do. Saban and Carroll also traveled extensively with so much success that other coaches got the NCAA rules committee to restrict HC travel.

All these things impacted the ability for ND to turn the head of kid that had committed early to the in-state school he grew up rooting for. ND had some success with Signing Day Surprises or flips but they were rare. CB Richardson was a flip I think from Virginia or Duke. Bob Morton was an early commit to Texas A&M but the coaches lied about the major he wanted (aeronautical engineering). He contacted ND coaches and got straight answers an switched. ND recently got couple of flips from Stanford. Brian Smith was an 11th hour flip after and ND recruit decommitted and went elsewhere at the 11th hour. There was a punter under Willingham, Price, I think, that was a flip for Texas.

Weis lead the charge to get Early Entrance for some recruits. I never though ND would allow that policy as it clashed with ND's culture of all freshman starting together and sharing the experience of Freshman Studies. For several years ND was losing academically qualified recruits who simply wanted to get a jump on football and come in early. It's now become routine at ND and allows potentially more recruits to "flip" should they chose to do so.

Weis wouldn't recruit players who were committed elsewhere. They had to approach him (Brian Smith). I think Kelly treats any recruit as fair game for recruitment until LOI's are signed.

The times they are a changin'
 

mick2

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with so much potential in this next class i will be happy when its all wrapped up and we can look forward to spring ball.

this class kelly has constructed looks pretty solid. i like guys that arent too highly touted coming out of highschool, they seem to have more of a chip on their shoulder and a prove the experts wrong attitude, rather than the 5 star terrelle pryor types that have been brownnosed since pee wee football.

times have definitely changed and i used to follow recruiting very close, but with so many kids flip flopping i usually wait until feb 2 and then start to get really excited.
 

IrishInFl

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An apt song for recruiting. Constant changes in recruiting, those that don't keep up get left behind. Joe Paterno was instrumental in using oncampus camps for recruit evaluation. He also was the driving force in getting early commitments making recruiting a 12 month enterprise.

At ND Lou Holtz had uberrecruiter Vinny Cerrato who was probably the reason for the first airline frequent flyer program. Cerrato had a keen eye for talent and a was a smooth talker. I think it was at the '88 Fiesta Bowl long before the BCS when #1 ND played #3 WVU with the NC on the line that Cerrato called QB recruit Rick Mirer and told him via his 5 pound cell phone what play ND was running on the next snap. (The NCAA later banned that practice.) Cerrato pulled in classes that were loaded with 5 Star talent before today's recruiting services were a twinkle in somebody's eye. He didn't coach a position, he was a full time recruiter. He did the evaluations and Lou made the house calls to close. Opposing coaches passed an NCAA rule that limited the number of assistant coaches and banned the full time recruiter position and required each assistant be an on field coach. Cerrato left ND to become the head of player personnel for the Washington Redskins.

Back in those days, ND's coach could not offer a scholarship until ND Admissions said so. They usually didn't say so until the getting mid semsester grades for the recruit's Senior Year. As other school pushed out offers early and got commitments ND's pool dwindled. Holtz and Cerrato had a running battle with ND Admissions over borderline recruits. ND had accepted Prop 48's one year as an experiment. While it was a staple in the SEC and elsewhere, ND dropped it after the one year trial. Acrimony between the coaching staff and Admissions grew. Holtz would slow play Admissions into December or early January that a questionable recruit's transcript was "unavailable". Rather than get an early rejection for kid that was obviously not going to get Admissions approval, he tried finessing (or forcing the issue) at the 11th hour. It came to a head with Randy Moss in 1995. He sent in an LOI but he and another academically deficient recruit (who went on to star at Miami) were rejected by ND Admissions after Signing Day. A year later Holtz resigned.

Bob Davie for all his faults built ND's summer camp into a recruiting tool following the success Joe Pa had with them. With Holtz gone ND Admissions again set a hard line on admission ciritera. I think it was during the Holtz era the the NCAA established more stringent Test and GPA requiements including a specified number of core courses. Problem was the NCAA required 12 core courses and ND required 16. Those 4 extra courses knocked out a lot of prospects who lacked the math or science ND wanted. Davie acquiesed to Admsisions (as did Willingham). There was some marginal recruits admitted but a rarity. Over the last few years that course gap has closed as the NCAA now requires all students have 16 core courses. Back in the mid 90's only 5 or 6 colleges like ND, Stanford, and Vandy required the extra 4 courses.

When Weis became HC he approached Admisisions in a spirit of cooperation rather than seeing them as the adversary they were with Holtz and Cerrato. Weis came to understand where Admissions was "flexible" and worked with them. He got transcripts in early so those recruits that wanted ND but needed more work could get it done on a timely basis. Weis and his assistants got to juniors and told them what courses they needed to take or take over to get Admissions OK. Weis also hit the bricks more than any other ND HC seeking out recruits and buildig relationships with HS coaches like the in-state coaches routinely do. Saban and Carroll also traveled extensively with so much success that other coaches got the NCAA rules committee to restrict HC travel.

All these things impacted the ability for ND to turn the head of kid that had committed early to the in-state school he grew up rooting for. ND had some success with Signing Day Surprises or flips but they were rare. CB Richardson was a flip I think from Virginia or Duke. Bob Morton was an early commit to Texas A&M but the coaches lied about the major he wanted (aeronautical engineering). He contacted ND coaches and got straight answers an switched. ND recently got couple of flips from Stanford. Brian Smith was an 11th hour flip after and ND recruit decommitted and went elsewhere at the 11th hour. There was a punter under Willingham, Price, I think, that was a flip for Texas.

Weis lead the charge to get Early Entrance for some recruits. I never though ND would allow that policy as it clashed with ND's culture of all freshman starting together and sharing the experience of Freshman Studies. For several years ND was losing academically qualified recruits who simply wanted to get a jump on football and come in early. It's now become routine at ND and allows potentially more recruits to "flip" should they chose to do so.

Weis wouldn't recruit players who were committed elsewhere. They had to approach him (Brian Smith). I think Kelly treats any recruit as fair game for recruitment until LOI's are signed.

The times they are a changin'

This is why we missed you for the past few months, dude.
 

Sherm Sticky

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An apt song for recruiting. Constant changes in recruiting, those that don't keep up get left behind. Joe Paterno was instrumental in using oncampus camps for recruit evaluation. He also was the driving force in getting early commitments making recruiting a 12 month enterprise.

At ND Lou Holtz had uberrecruiter Vinny Cerrato who was probably the reason for the first airline frequent flyer program. Cerrato had a keen eye for talent and a was a smooth talker. I think it was at the '88 Fiesta Bowl long before the BCS when #1 ND played #3 WVU with the NC on the line that Cerrato called QB recruit Rick Mirer and told him via his 5 pound cell phone what play ND was running on the next snap. (The NCAA later banned that practice.) Cerrato pulled in classes that were loaded with 5 Star talent before today's recruiting services were a twinkle in somebody's eye. He didn't coach a position, he was a full time recruiter. He did the evaluations and Lou made the house calls to close. Opposing coaches passed an NCAA rule that limited the number of assistant coaches and banned the full time recruiter position and required each assistant be an on field coach. Cerrato left ND to become the head of player personnel for the Washington Redskins.

Back in those days, ND's coach could not offer a scholarship until ND Admissions said so. They usually didn't say so until the getting mid semsester grades for the recruit's Senior Year. As other school pushed out offers early and got commitments ND's pool dwindled. Holtz and Cerrato had a running battle with ND Admissions over borderline recruits. ND had accepted Prop 48's one year as an experiment. While it was a staple in the SEC and elsewhere, ND dropped it after the one year trial. Acrimony between the coaching staff and Admissions grew. Holtz would slow play Admissions into December or early January that a questionable recruit's transcript was "unavailable". Rather than get an early rejection for kid that was obviously not going to get Admissions approval, he tried finessing (or forcing the issue) at the 11th hour. It came to a head with Randy Moss in 1995. He sent in an LOI but he and another academically deficient recruit (who went on to star at Miami) were rejected by ND Admissions after Signing Day. A year later Holtz resigned.

Bob Davie for all his faults built ND's summer camp into a recruiting tool following the success Joe Pa had with them. With Holtz gone ND Admissions again set a hard line on admission ciritera. I think it was during the Holtz era the the NCAA established more stringent Test and GPA requiements including a specified number of core courses. Problem was the NCAA required 12 core courses and ND required 16. Those 4 extra courses knocked out a lot of prospects who lacked the math or science ND wanted. Davie acquiesed to Admsisions (as did Willingham). There was some marginal recruits admitted but a rarity. Over the last few years that course gap has closed as the NCAA now requires all students have 16 core courses. Back in the mid 90's only 5 or 6 colleges like ND, Stanford, and Vandy required the extra 4 courses.

When Weis became HC he approached Admisisions in a spirit of cooperation rather than seeing them as the adversary they were with Holtz and Cerrato. Weis came to understand where Admissions was "flexible" and worked with them. He got transcripts in early so those recruits that wanted ND but needed more work could get it done on a timely basis. Weis and his assistants got to juniors and told them what courses they needed to take or take over to get Admissions OK. Weis also hit the bricks more than any other ND HC seeking out recruits and buildig relationships with HS coaches like the in-state coaches routinely do. Saban and Carroll also traveled extensively with so much success that other coaches got the NCAA rules committee to restrict HC travel.

All these things impacted the ability for ND to turn the head of kid that had committed early to the in-state school he grew up rooting for. ND had some success with Signing Day Surprises or flips but they were rare. CB Richardson was a flip I think from Virginia or Duke. Bob Morton was an early commit to Texas A&M but the coaches lied about the major he wanted (aeronautical engineering). He contacted ND coaches and got straight answers an switched. ND recently got couple of flips from Stanford. Brian Smith was an 11th hour flip after and ND recruit decommitted and went elsewhere at the 11th hour. There was a punter under Willingham, Price, I think, that was a flip for Texas.

Weis lead the charge to get Early Entrance for some recruits. I never though ND would allow that policy as it clashed with ND's culture of all freshman starting together and sharing the experience of Freshman Studies. For several years ND was losing academically qualified recruits who simply wanted to get a jump on football and come in early. It's now become routine at ND and allows potentially more recruits to "flip" should they chose to do so.

Weis wouldn't recruit players who were committed elsewhere. They had to approach him (Brian Smith). I think Kelly treats any recruit as fair game for recruitment until LOI's are signed.

The times they are a changin'
That is very informative...Thankyou.
 

sportallyr

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Great read. BGIF, you da man!!!

I miss Brian Polian a lot, but I love Kelly, Martin, Alford, Diaco and Co. These guys work really hard and they seem to be relentless. In the Weis era, I think our guys may have moved on from Lynch after he committed to FSU and said he was done with recruiting. I'm really looking forward to watching these guys recruit once we are back playing for National Championships!!!
 

tommyIRISH23

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Aside from the training table, have any concessions been made by the ND admin. for BK?
 

TDHeysus

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its hard for me not to be over optimistic right now. I am not usually like this, but I think ND could make a HUGE splash in recruiting this year. They have a shot at a few defensive players, and my gut feeling is they have a great shot at them. I think there may be 1 to 2 major surprises as well. I watched the Army All American game, and the way those defenders dominated the game, the fact alot of the time they were all in the game playing together and dominating. those players talk about how much they liked each other, how much they liked playing opposite each other. Tuitt and Lynch with ND connections, IShaq flirting with ND. Rumors of Ray Drew? Ray Drew was killing it in the AAA game. I think ND has a good shot at 2 of those guys, maybe more.

I know that is all just rumors and alot of 'ifs', but IF ND were to land ALL of those guys....that is where I have to catch myself. if I didnt stop there, I would be thinking in addition to Te'o, Shembo, etc, etc.
 
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