'Suicide by Cop' in Idaho - Video

[#1rish]

Warning, maybe NSFW/NSFL to some.

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Body Camera Video Shows Idaho 'Suicide by Cop' - Officer.com

Thoughts?

IMO the cop warned him several times to drop the knives and that he was going to shoot him and the guy still came towards him. Have to be able to protect yourself.

 

[greyhammer90]

Well I just feel bad for everyone involved in that.

 

[Kingbish01]

Shoot to kill when approached by a man with a knife??? You would think he could have immobilized him with a shot or two to the leg.

 

[Irishcop]

Shoot to kill when approached by a man with a knife??? You would think he could have immobilized him with a shot or two to the leg.

I understand your thinking however were not trained to shoot people in the leg or arm. That man was well within 21 feet of the officer with a knife. Let's say the officer had tried to shoot the subject in the arm or leg and missed someone can advance very quickly within 21 feet and do serious bodily harm with said knife. Or the officer shoots for the leg or arm and misses the round then travels through a wall and kills an innocent bystander or a kid playing outside. Always shoot center mass.

 

[kmoose]

Thoughts?

IMO the cop warned him several times to drop the knives and that he was going to shoot him and the guy still came towards him. Have to be able to protect yourself.

IMO, the cop shot the man dead for no reason other than the guy didn't obey him. It's kind of hard to see, as the officer's hands were obscuring our view of the man with the knife, but it certainly didn't appear that the man posed an immediate threat to the officer's life. The man would have had to take at least 3 or 4 steps, in order to close the range between him and the officer, and make the knife an effective weapon. He did move towards the officer, but not in a rushed, threatening way that would make a reasonable person assume that their life was in imminent danger.

Having said that, I'm not sure I can fault the officer, as he is probably just following his training. I think it is the training that is at fault, here, and in many other instances of questionable judgment by law enforcement officers. The training appears to be along the lines of, "If the citizen doesn't obey your every command, instantaneously and without question, then they are a threat that you have an obligation to neutralize through the use of deadly force."

 

[johnnycando]

Wow I'm in awe.

Can't see where the guy should have died. I would have walked outside backing up. Then if he continued to seem like a threat, tasered him from distance with other officer support.

Why weren't the other officers inside with him?

Blatant disregard for the situation and mental health of the individual to not talk him down.

 

[Grahambo]

IMO, the cop shot the man dead for no reason other than the guy didn't obey him. It's kind of hard to see, as the officer's hands were obscuring our view of the man with the knife, but it certainly didn't appear that the man posed an immediate threat to the officer's life. The man would have had to take at least 3 or 4 steps, in order to close the range between him and the officer, and make the knife an effective weapon. He did move towards the officer, but not in a rushed, threatening way that would make a reasonable person assume that their life was in imminent danger.

Having said that, I'm not sure I can fault the officer, as he is probably just following his training. I think it is the training that is at fault, here, and in many other instances of questionable judgment by law enforcement officers. The training appears to be along the lines of, "If the citizen doesn't obey your every command, instantaneously and without question, then they are a threat that you have an obligation to neutralize through the use of deadly force."

False on so many levels.

 

[IrishLax]

Has anyone here seen the Officer Dinkheller video? It's a perfect illustration of how going the other direction (i.e. giving someone too many chances to comply) can get you killed. I find it really tough to judge someone in the shoes of the officer above. Although I agree that ideally for everyone involved you'd want to immobilize him and not kill him, we don't live in an ideal world.

 

[Grahambo]

Has anyone here seen the Officer Dinklage video? It's a perfect illustration of how going the other direction (i.e. giving someone too many chances to comply) can get you killed. I find it really tough to judge someone in the shoes of the officer above. Although I agree that ideally for everyone involved you'd want to immobilize him and not kill him, we don't live in an ideal world.

I've seen 'immobilize' several times when it comes to shooting and you never shoot to 'immobilize' just as you don't shoot the tires out of a moving car. This isn't Hollywood.

 

[IrishLax]

I've seen 'immobilize' several times when it comes to shooting and you never shoot to 'immobilize' just as you don't shoot the tires out of a moving car. This isn't Hollywood.

Agreed, which is why I said we don't live in an ideal world. You obviously know this, but for the others on this board that don't, police are routinely equipped these days with many devices for non-lethal incapacitation. Everything from tasers to sprays to bean bag guns. You get in the situation that officer was in though and your options are rather limited, and if you try to hard to save the life of the person who isn't complying it can cost you your own.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I feel bad for all the people involved in this, but the guy with the knife was close enough to hurt the officer and he failed to comply with numerous warnings to put the knife down. Trying to immobilize someone with a nonlethal shot too often leads to the officer getting injured or killed, especially when dealing with someone intent on doing him harm, feeling like they're in a situation with no way out, or high on drugs. I hate it, but the officer followed SOP and did the right thing in my opinion.

 

[Grahambo]

Agreed, which is why I said we don't live in an ideal world. You obviously know this, but for the others on this board that don't, police are routinely equipped these days with many devices for non-lethal incapacitation. Everything from tasers to sprays to bean bag guns. You get in the situation that officer was in though and your options are rather limited, and if you try to hard to save the life of the person who isn't complying it can cost you your own.

And you bringing up Officer Dinkheller is a perfect example giving somebody too many opportunities. He is just one example out of many that when you don't act when you have the chance, you will lose your life. For people that have a family, what do you expect them to do? Wait until the guy is in lunging distance so I can get stabbed first?

Even those items that you mentioned will not guarantee it will work. I've seen one to many people get sprayed with pepper spray for it to be completely ineffective. I mean, entire spray cans emptied onto somebody's face and no reaction whatsoever. Tasers have been known to fail. The guy was told multiple times and had several chances to comply and didn't. Then he's approaching the officer with TWO knives.

The rate of speed at which the guy is approaching is irrelevant. I don't know what type of knife training this guy has had in his life to include any type of knife throwing competitions, etc he may have taken part in. I don't know if he's under the influence. I don't know the type of military background the guy may have had. Some of these questions may seem silly but you don't know what the full capabilities of someone is during a time of confrontation.

All I know is that if someone is approaching me with TWO knives after having been told many times to drop them, I can't say I would act any different then what that officer acted.

 

[Bobias]

I actually agree with what the officer did, and I am especially glad that the officer was wearing his camera as that will be able to clearly show what happened. It is far better than the sensationalized craziness that would have come from another "cops kills innocent man" story. If he hadn't had that camera on him there would have been no other way to prove what exactly happened since the wife was outside, and nobody else was in the room to see what happened.

EDIT: People are still going crazy and calling the cop a trigger happy murderer. I guess I spoke too soon. I can't stand people.

 

[GowerND11]

Honest, imagine having to unload your weapon on a citizen like that? Think about the sleepless nights he has had and will continue to have. Imagine having that scene burned into your brain and it replaying on a loop for the rest of your life. The officer gave numerous opportunities for the man to put the knife down. Clearly he wasn't in the right state of mind that the cops had to be called in the first place. He came forward with a weapon and made no clear actions that he was going to comply with the officer. He made the right decision to incapacitate the man. We can't nitpick. None of us were there. We don't have the fear factor involved when analyzing the event. This happened very quickly and he did what needed to be done. Sad story for all involved.

 

[johnnycando]

How can anyone say he didn't have an itchy trigger finger? He may have his training to back him up, but the demeanor I saw from the dead individual didn't show aggression at all, IMO even with him approaching the officer. The officer commanded he come into the room. He didn't comply. Then when the officer came around, and made eye contact he complied.

His mom couldn't get him to drop the knives, as she knew he was going to hurt himself. So she called a police officer hoping his authoritative stance would cause compliance. The cop then started to get weird. Even with the woman. If he was sketched out, why didn't he call for back-up that was sitting outside the house?

If I was on the jury, I would need serious consideration as to whether or not the officer could have avoided the situation. I would also like to know why other officers weren't inside with him. Those are all interesting portions to draw a conclusion.

 

[Irishnuke]

Some of you guys act like he came there to shoot the kid. He tried to get the kid to come out and not hurt himself. He said it's not worth it. He told him to drop the knives or he'll shoot him. He gave the guy plenty of chances.

I try to put myself in his shoes and think about how I'd react. Maybe I would try to back up but what happens if I trip? What happens if the kid lunges at me? It wasn't a big house, not much room to move around in. It's a horrible situation to be in but I can't fault the cop for what he did.

 

[kmoose]

False on so many levels.

I know it is, but you can't tell me that you don't expect the average person to scratch their head and say that they don't see the imminent threat to the officer's life, in this case.

 

[IrishLion]

Deranged, unstable man, slowly advancing toward a police officer with a knife, ignoring orders to drop said knife? Nope, no imminent threat there.

 

[PANDFAN]

being a former prison guard i fully support the officer and he gave him plenty of times for him to comply...intense situations always suck and you will always play what should i have done differently.....the officer will play this game, but at the end of the day he will at least have that chance and had he not acted in this manner, he may have been on the opposite side

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I knew a guy in AZ who did 3 years for shooting to immobilize (not kill) a drunk guy who came at him with a knife at a gas station. He was told "you could have ran away."

*Why they say: Shoot to kill, so there's only one side to the story.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think theres a grey area here because the guy that was shot obviously wasn't in his right mind. Yeah, he wasn't complying with the officer's orders, but he probably wasn't in his right mind after the crash. Does that mean he's going to attack the officer? That's the unknown, and I don't fault the officer necessarily for shooting the man without knowing what his intent was. In most cases I'm going to side with the officer for doing his duty, and for the most part I side with him here. However, in situations like this maybe it's better not to approach the man and wait until theres more cops involved and maybe someone who is skilled at negotiations and/or handling people with a delicate mental state.

At the end of the day, the officer is doing his job, you can't fault him for following his training and doing his duty. Maybe the training can be altered though to prevent an unnecessary death. Maybe theres a better way to approach the situation. I'm glad he did have the presence of mind to get the woman out of the house so she wouldn't be harmed by guy with the knives. I agree with grey, feel bad for everyone involved in that scenario.

 

[IrishLion]

I will say, why not get the taser out rather than the gun? But then again, you don't know if the dude is a 6'6" 300lb roidrager who would laugh at getting shot by the taser. So then you're holding a useless taser while a man with a knife continues to advance on you. Now you're trying to get your gun out while moving backwards.

A lot of things can go wrong for the officer in that situation. It's tough.

 

[NDFan4Life]

I agree with Irishnuke. The cop gave quite a few warnings. If the guy had stopped moving toward the cop and dropped the knife, he wouldn't have been killed. The cop gave him a choice. Unfortunately, he chose to have the cop kill him instead of doing it himself. Now the cop has to live with what happened.

 

[Irishbounty28]

I side with the officer in this situation, but would like to point out that if this same situation was videotaped in Iraq or Afghanistan the Soldier/Marine would be questioned vigorously about his actions.

Not to change the subject but I think it is ridiculous the ridicule that those overseas get. This unfortunate situation seems to be justified. Could the officer have used different means to eliminate the threat? Sure. Was he in position to do so at the time? No. He already had his weapon out, and putting it away to pull out a a tazer would put him at risk. Terrible situation all the way around.

 

[irishmarine]

unless youve been in that situation and there is no way for you to say what you would do. i thought the 5 shots was a bit much but adrenaline is a bitch and the officer did what he had to do. think about how bad the mom feels for her son to be killed from a cop that she called. itll end up in court and the officer will be put on paid leave until the verdict comes back as the officer was in the right.

 

[johnnycando]

I'm pro law enforcement.

I have a best buddy on the local drug task force and a retired cop best buddy.

I'd argue until I was blue in the face with them and certainly with you fuckers, this wasn't handled right.

If training is to blame, then revamp.

Untrained I can see a way out. Aka back-up officers. This wasn't a hostile situation.

 

[phork]

Not sure what to make of this. I fully support the police and the handling of the douchebaggery underbelly of society and any means to do so. However, 5 shots at close range seems a bit much to me.

The suspect was clearly in a car crash of some sort. Was he concussed or otherwise mentally incapacitated? We'll never know I guess. But its not like he was lunging at the officer either.

Ugh. Sad situation all around.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

The man isn't thinkng rational to come at someone, especially a police officer, with a weapon drawn. Trained shoot to kill. If it's me or him, it's going to be him, sadly.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

*irrational

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

Well my Dumb ass phone won't let me delete irrational post. My original post was my intention.