State of the Recruiting Class - 2024

[Irishdrunk]

What I don't get is this : Freeman is known for his defensive acumen. Golden was a successful NFL coach recently and Washington had a good reputation. So, why is recruiting on the defensive side of the ball so average? There is no rhyme or reason to this. I am also concerned that when all is done, ND will have a lower ranked class than many of Kelly's. The excuses concerning NIL are sort of a cop out since, on the offensive side of the ball, recruiting is pretty good.

Please don't post this NDQuebec.... you will start board mutiny.... LOL

 

[NDQuebec]

Please don't post this NDQuebec.... you will start board mutiny.... LOL

Is this the IB message board? Hehe

 

[Luckylucci]

I think the gap is closing. It was just never as big as folks wanted to make it, to begin with. The Freeman hype machine is real and likely will continue to be. It caused folks to get ahead of themselves with regards to the type of recruiting he was going to be doing or to lose sight of what is needed.

Recruiting is going better, and I do believe the results will prove that over a period of time. I just think folks got too negative about BK and too optimistic about what Freeman was going to do at ND with regards to recruiting.

The reality is, BK wasn't that far off the goal. And, Freeman didn't have that much of a "gap" to close. I believe that Freeman is doing what's necessary, overall, to put ND in a position to achieve what's needed.

I've always believed that BK was a few players per season away from truly competing for a Natty. One of those positions just happened to be the most important. QB. If BK had Hartman or Carr that likely makes up for a lot. Now, Freeman has those guys. And, I think he's pushing the limits of recruiting more than Bk was willing to do. I also think we're seeing how the transfer portal can benefit ND. BK started down that path but like most things as far as roster acquisition goes, Freeman is being more aggressive and it seems to be paying off.

The path forward was never about landing a bunch of 5 stars every cycle. It was always going to be about landing the most talented RKG's out there. Which is where Kelly let too many of them pass by. Freeman is closing that gap. That's the most important one. As he does, we should see it reflected on the field. Though, this is independent of the necessary growth he'll need as a HC. Separate conversations.

 

[stlnd01]

One notable difference between recruiting under BK and recruiting under Freeman so far is that our most talented players are spread out among more positions. Under BK it was a lot of OLs.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

People do realize that Kellys classes would have been far worse if he had to deal with NIL during his full tenure here?

 

[Irishdrunk]

I think the gap is closing. It was just never as big as folks wanted to make it, to begin with. The Freeman hype machine is real and likely will continue to be. It caused folks to get ahead of themselves with regards to the type of recruiting he was going to be doing or to lose sight of what is needed.

Recruiting is going better, and I do believe the results will prove that over a period of time. I just think folks got too negative about BK and too optimistic about what Freeman was going to do at ND with regards to recruiting.

The reality is, BK wasn't that far off the goal. And, Freeman didn't have that much of a "gap" to close. I believe that Freeman is doing what's necessary, overall, to put ND in a position to achieve what's needed.

I've always believed that BK was a few players per season away from truly competing for a Natty. One of those positions just happened to be the most important. QB. If BK had Hartman or Carr that likely makes up for a lot. Now, Freeman has those guys. And, I think he's pushing the limits of recruiting more than Bk was willing to do. I also think we're seeing how the transfer portal can benefit ND. BK started down that path but like most things as far as roster acquisition goes, Freeman is being more aggressive and it seems to be paying off.

The path forward was never about landing a bunch of 5 stars every cycle. It was always going to be about landing the most talented RKG's out there. Which is where Kelly let too many of them pass by. Freeman is closing that gap. That's the most important one. As he does, we should see it reflected on the field. Though, this is independent of the necessary growth he'll need as a HC. Separate conversations.

All good points LL. The bashing of BK was endless and to counter the perception that he was holding ND back, those who were antagonistic to BK had to make it seem that Freeman would release ND from the BK underperformance - immediately. These brilliant fans and analysts gave no leeway for the obvious fact that Freeman was a very young and completely inexperienced HC. That errors would be likely made in the first few years. Neither the over bashing of BK or the over estimation of Freeman's immediate HC prowess is realistic. Freeman lost a couple of games he should not have and the schedule last year and this year is tough. I think Freeman will be 9-3 this year but again expectations are high with most here viewing 10-2 as a reasonable floor. There are costs to hiring a brand new coach as experience does count for a lot.

Is the recruiting better? Somewhat. But recruiting was never BK's strength at ND - it was coaching and player development. His true downfall in many ND's fans' eyes is that he never won the big games or upset better teams. Hopefully, Freeman can do that. If not, we are going to remain a very good Top 15 / Top 25 program.

 

[greyhammer90]

Our offensive skill talent has taken about as much of a step forward as you could reasonably hope since he was hired. That was job No. 1 on the recruiting front for me, so I'm reasonably pleased.

 

[Luckylucci]

One notable difference between recruiting under BK and recruiting under Freeman so far is that our most talented players are spread out among more positions. Under BK it was a lot of OLs.

When you say a lot, what are you expecting to see?

 

[Luckylucci]

People do realize that Kellys classes would have been far worse if he had to deal with NIL during his full tenure here?

I actually disagree. This is just another excuse for the Freeman fanatics that we've accepted as reality. Players, including players on ND's present roster were either given money or propositioned for money during their recruitments from other schools.

Players have been getting paid, big-time money, for literal decades.

The single most important personnel acquisition that Freeman has made since coming to ND, was facilitated because of NIL.

If anything, ND being able to utilize legit NIL opportunities for the RKG's has helped them. Before it was, come to ND for football and education. Which means you had to still turn down the money. Now guys get football, education, and money. Still have to turn it down on the front end like before but they know they'll get some when they show up. Which BK didn't have before.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I think the gap is closing. It was just never as big as folks wanted to make it, to begin with. The Freeman hype machine is real and likely will continue to be. It caused folks to get ahead of themselves with regards to the type of recruiting he was going to be doing or to lose sight of what is needed.

Recruiting is going better, and I do believe the results will prove that over a period of time. I just think folks got too negative about BK and too optimistic about what Freeman was going to do at ND with regards to recruiting.

The reality is, BK wasn't that far off the goal. And, Freeman didn't have that much of a "gap" to close. I believe that Freeman is doing what's necessary, overall, to put ND in a position to achieve what's needed.

I've always believed that BK was a few players per season away from truly competing for a Natty. One of those positions just happened to be the most important. QB. If BK had Hartman or Carr that likely makes up for a lot. Now, Freeman has those guys. And, I think he's pushing the limits of recruiting more than Bk was willing to do. I also think we're seeing how the transfer portal can benefit ND. BK started down that path but like most things as far as roster acquisition goes, Freeman is being more aggressive and it seems to be paying off.

The path forward was never about landing a bunch of 5 stars every cycle. It was always going to be about landing the most talented RKG's out there. Which is where Kelly let too many of them pass by. Freeman is closing that gap. That's the most important one. As he does, we should see it reflected on the field. Though, this is independent of the necessary growth he'll need as a HC. Separate conversations.

'A few players per season away' is what the best coaches have been telling ND for years but they refuse to budge. It's why Meyer, Stoops and who knows how many others have told ND to fuck off.

ND can't win unless they have a game changer at head coach.
Game changing coaches won't come to ND unless they feel like they can compete with the best.

You can't compete against the best unless you have a few of the best players in each class that we can't get.

But ND won't budge on this, causing the top coaches to say fuck off.

It's a vicious cycle. One that ND seems comfortable with.

 

[Irishdrunk]

I think the best chance at a CFP run within the next 3 years is actually this year. That veteran QB is a big deal. But the issues may be some holes on the lines and the coaching staff hitting on all cylinders. That schedule is a bitch though.

 

[Irishdrunk]

'A few players per season away' is what the best coaches have been telling ND for years but they refuse to budge. It's why Meyer, Stoops and who knows how many others have told ND to fuck off.

ND can't win unless they have a game changer at head coach.
Game changing coaches won't come to ND unless they feel like they can compete with the best.

You can't compete against the best unless you have a few of the best players in each class that we can't get.

But ND won't budge on this, causing the top coaches to say fuck off.

It's a vicious cycle. One that ND seems comfortable with.

Well and I don't think Urban Meyer was approached by ND this time. His career resurrection under ND's Touchdown Jesus would have been the gracious thing for the Holy Cross community to do for Urban. Now that guy would recruit. That was the all-out hire but ND didn't want to go there.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

He was the steady hand that Freeman needed in his first few seasons. But the guy's defense was pretty subpar last year (especially red zone %), and ND can and should do better.

It has been one season and they finished 22nd in total defense.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I think the gap is closing. It was just never as big as folks wanted to make it, to begin with. The Freeman hype machine is real and likely will continue to be. It caused folks to get ahead of themselves with regards to the type of recruiting he was going to be doing or to lose sight of what is needed.

Recruiting is going better, and I do believe the results will prove that over a period of time. I just think folks got too negative about BK and too optimistic about what Freeman was going to do at ND with regards to recruiting.

The reality is, BK wasn't that far off the goal. And, Freeman didn't have that much of a "gap" to close. I believe that Freeman is doing what's necessary, overall, to put ND in a position to achieve what's needed.

I've always believed that BK was a few players per season away from truly competing for a Natty. One of those positions just happened to be the most important. QB. If BK had Hartman or Carr that likely makes up for a lot. Now, Freeman has those guys. And, I think he's pushing the limits of recruiting more than Bk was willing to do. I also think we're seeing how the transfer portal can benefit ND. BK started down that path but like most things as far as roster acquisition goes, Freeman is being more aggressive and it seems to be paying off.

The path forward was never about landing a bunch of 5 stars every cycle. It was always going to be about landing the most talented RKG's out there. Which is where Kelly let too many of them pass by. Freeman is closing that gap. That's the most important one. As he does, we should see it reflected on the field. Though, this is independent of the necessary growth he'll need as a HC. Separate conversations.

This is 100% correct.

Sure, LSU is a path of least resistance, but Marcus Freeman is going to take the current road and grind. He knows the circumstances and parameters facing him. He's choosing to do the work and will at least try. Often he'll fail, but he's going to try. Go from well to well until you get the kids who believe they're Notre Dame kids.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Well and I don't think Urban Meyer was approached by ND this time. His career resurrection under ND's Touchdown Jesus would have been the gracious thing for the Holy Cross community to do for Urban. Now that guy would recruit. That was the all-out hire but ND didn't want to go there.

No, he wasn't this time. He has been at least twice in the past.

But this is why we have to settle on Freeman while USC pulls in a whale like Lincoln Riley.

 

[irishff1014]

I think the gap is closing. It was just never as big as folks wanted to make it, to begin with. The Freeman hype machine is real and likely will continue to be. It caused folks to get ahead of themselves with regards to the type of recruiting he was going to be doing or to lose sight of what is needed.

Recruiting is going better, and I do believe the results will prove that over a period of time. I just think folks got too negative about BK and too optimistic about what Freeman was going to do at ND with regards to recruiting.

The reality is, BK wasn't that far off the goal. And, Freeman didn't have that much of a "gap" to close. I believe that Freeman is doing what's necessary, overall, to put ND in a position to achieve what's needed.

I've always believed that BK was a few players per season away from truly competing for a Natty. One of those positions just happened to be the most important. QB. If BK had Hartman or Carr that likely makes up for a lot. Now, Freeman has those guys. And, I think he's pushing the limits of recruiting more than Bk was willing to do. I also think we're seeing how the transfer portal can benefit ND. BK started down that path but like most things as far as roster acquisition goes, Freeman is being more aggressive and it seems to be paying off.

The path forward was never about landing a bunch of 5 stars every cycle. It was always going to be about landing the most talented RKG's out there. Which is where Kelly let too many of them pass by. Freeman is closing that gap. That's the most important one. As he does, we should see it reflected on the field. Though, this is independent of the necessary growth he'll need as a HC. Separate conversations.

Lucci man you are always on point imo but this time I have to disagree. The main reason Freeman has this job is because of his potential in the recruiting world.

They knew there was going be bumps in the road with a first time head coach and if he could coach a whole team instead of 1/3.

I am not even close to saying that Freeman is on the hot seat but we have to improve in the areas that are his strength now. The coaching decisions and management skills will come around and hopefully catch up to the recruiting.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Freeman needs a fire season to regain the fire on the recruiting trail. He's still putting together a really good class and if we close with 2-3 of our remaining players on the board then it's a class that can take us into the playoffs.

Yes, we need more but I think the staff is working their ass off and max'ing out the recruiting for this year. Some may not be pleased but a 5 star QB, a 5 star WR and a load of talent on offense with some high quality and high upside defensive players is kind of what we've been longing for. Our defense has outpaced our offense for a long time and the last two classes have set us up to have a lot more offensive firepower.

Hopefully we don't see our defense falter.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I realize this, it’s the fact that you added it in.

My point is we have an elite college qb, imo best we’ve had since Quinn, better than clausen due to his mobility issues. Hartman isn’t book but he’s sneaky athletic

 

[NDRock]

I think the Clemson model is the key in recruiting if you are ND. They are just not going to consistently get the top 5 classes like Bama, Georgia, OSU, etc. What you need to focus on is the solid top 10ish class with the big time QB and/or a big time skill position player or 2. That’s doable for ND IMO, and it seems to me that is what MF is trying to do as well. As a fan, it’s hard to not want the best in all areas, but that has proven itself to be the reality of the current college football world for ND, and gives the best chance for success.

The problem with the Clemson model is it needs the best QB in college football to succeed.

 

[Terry Jillery]

I’m not sure Hartman can will a team to a championship or be the difference between blowing ND’s doors off or losing in OT. I hope so, but Lawrence was somewhat of a mythological beast (in college).

 

[stlnd01]

I’m not sure Hartman can will a team to a championship or be the difference between blowing ND’s doors off or losing in OT. I hope so, but Lawrence was somewhat of a mythological beast (in college).

Agree, but if you believe that we are equal or better at most other position groups to what we had in 2018 and 2020 - which is a not unreasonable belief at most of them - having a more dynamic QB gives us a better shot of actually winning a playoff game.

 

[INLaw]

He was the steady hand that Freeman needed in his first few seasons. But the guy's defense was pretty subpar last year (especially red zone %), and ND can and should do better.

The steady hand was supposed to fucking prevent stanford and marshall

 

[INLaw]

This is 100% correct.

Sure, LSU is a path of least resistance, but Marcus Freeman is going to take the current road and grind. He knows the circumstances and parameters facing him. He's choosing to do the work and will at least try. Often he'll fail, but he's going to try. Go from well to well until you get the kids who believe they're Notre Dame kids.

Pretty sure Kelly is doing plenty of grinding on the bayou. There are videos and everything

 

[Katzenboyer]

It has been one season and they finished 22nd in total defense.

The numbers behind the numbers aren't terrific.

• Dead last in red zone percentage.
• 91st in opportunity rate.
• 103rd in expected points added.

 

[stlnd01]

The steady hand was supposed to fucking prevent stanford and marshall

Stanford loss wasn’t really on the defense. Just offensive ineptitude all night. But against Marshall we had the lead in the fourth quarter, a third and long on their like 20, and we let them march the length of the field to go ahead, and that’s hard to get over.

 

[Luckylucci]

I’m not sure Hartman can will a team to a championship or be the difference between blowing ND’s doors off or losing in OT. I hope so, but Lawrence was somewhat of a mythological beast (in college).

I’m not sure he can either but I’m not sure he’ll have to.

I think the roster sets up quite nicely for a very competitive team around him.

 

[irishandy]

Year #2 hasn't even started and this board seems to be in a freak out mode about Freeman.

I think negative recruiting by other colleges has always been against ND- academic/admissions and the NIL is not in ND's favor as well.

What happened with KVA? I think this is a recruitment that Freeman can take over & win. With Scott, I am sick of hearing since he's from Chicago he should be at ND. Does he want to be at ND? I agree that Golden/Washington need to step up their recruiting game.

Like Kelly had his hand in the offense I think when the time comes (if it already hasn't) Freeman will have his hand in the defense.

Our offense is led by a 3* QB coming out of high school, 5 of Wake Forest's WR's last year had over 500 yards, and 4 of those WR's had 6 or more TD's. No disrespect to the WF WR's, but on paper/coming out of high school ND WR's are more talented.

I am surprised the * system is still around.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The numbers behind the numbers aren't terrific.

• Dead last in red zone percentage.
• 91st in opportunity rate.
• 103rd in expected points added.

Of course there are going to be aspects that need improvement.

One season, 13 games, and he's subpar? I know it wasn't the popular sexy hire that everyone wanted, but it's not pitchfork and torch time yet is it?

 

[NDohio]

Of course there are going to be aspects that need improvement.

One season, 13 games, and he's subpar? I know it wasn't the popular sexy hire that everyone wanted, but it's not pitchfork and torch time yet is it?

I don't know if Golden is the right guy or not but he, as you say, has only been at ND for one season. That one season was also the third consecutive season that the defensive players have had a new coach/new system/new terminology/etc. Let's give the guy an opportunity to get his defensive players acclimated to what he is trying to accomplish before we run him out of town.

 

[Irishdrunk]

Of course there are going to be aspects that need improvement.

One season, 13 games, and he's subpar? I know it wasn't the popular sexy hire that everyone wanted, but it's not pitchfork and torch time yet is it?

All the smart guys wanted this hire. Hopefully it pans out this year.