Stanford Postgame

[ulukinatme]

The outside receiver was lined up on the line of scrimmage. The tight end, inside of him, was therefore ineligible. I would bet the WR was supposed to be back off the line.

That was my assessment too. I think it was Jayden Thomas on the outside was supposed to be off the line. We were already heavy left with another TE next to Evans. Evans was supposed to be on the line, Thomas shouldn't have been.

 

[ulukinatme]

Imagine if Estime doesn’t fumble?

I hate the timing of this one, but I don't blame the big guy. Defender put his hat right on the football, the ball is going to come out 9/10 when that happens. You still hope he's got two hands on it when he's running between the tackles, but it is what it is.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I've tried to be reasonable and see the silver lining.... There is absolutely zero. That loss is like Marshall. Completely inexcusable. This is team is undisciplined and poorly coached and it makes me vomit

 

[spoonidentity]

We should never gripe about the defense when it only gives up 16 points (Other teams have people who can play, and Stanford obviously has some. 16 points is a very low number and it shouldn't have to be said.) Our analysis should concentrate elsewhere for the loss. (which most folks here do.)

One other thing that I notice about Golden's defense: Sometimes early in the game the opponents move down the field. This happened often to Bud Foster, Virginia Tech's legendary great DC for so many years with Beamer. But as my ex-VT brother (who played way back with Beamer) would say: Foster will figure it out --- and the clamps would increasingly come down, and VT would win. I believe that our current DC is a similar DC to Foster --- you can't really predict the opponents' first few series. See what they've really got, then out-plan them from then on.

Mike -

I'll say this now because I didn't say it enough before your sabbatical from posting on this site for a few years:

I really appreciate your well informed and rational takes on things like college football! I agree with your viewpoints and love learning about OL play from your analysis.

Please keep it up

 

[IrishFanForever23]

I’d like to know who this was referencing.

 

[Irish2155]

Yeah I thought the game atmosphere sucked. But to be fair I thought the pop music that ND was playing was pretty horrific too.

I was surprised to see people openly carrying beers and liquor around campus and off-campus. Is Indiana an open carry state? Does ND not care? I was blown away honestly. If you did that shit at OSU you'd get a ticket or arrested pretty quickly.

Louisville too. I can confirm. This happy ass was escorted right out to the bar across the street

Didn't get to watch live (all day meeting.) Just now watched first quarter seeing something different from what I'd read.
I'll not criticize the Defense, as although the first Stanford drive was hurtful, D stopped them with only 9 points thereafter.
So, to the first quarter offense.

I was surprised (after the negative words on IE) that our actual three first quarter drives don't show bad play by either drew Pyne, nor in general the OLine, nor even the play-calling. As follows:

Drive One: This drive was stopped quickly and simply by (of all people,) Patterson. He starts us off with a motion penalty and then gets his communication with Zeke Correll wrong so that he's standing there blocking no one while Zeke blocks the guy who should be his, and the guy Zeke should be blocking is unabated to Pyne/RB straight up the middle. The other three OLine are blocking their three guys just fine. We are now seriously behind the sticks and have to punt.

Drive Two: Play one has no one in the receiving corps getting open, despite the OLine giving time, and Pyne makes the correct choice of a throwaway. Another play has Stanford OVERTLY loading 8 in the box vs only 6 ND blockers. ALL blockers do OK. Play is still stuffed by the extra guys. (ideally there should be a passing checkoff here.) Drive ending play has the OLine working fine, and Pyne surveying the field looking at Mayer. Mayer seems to run his route lazier than usual, counting on just shedding the defender off him without worrying about separation. Mayer however hesitates just after he shrugs off the DB and Pyne doesn't expect the quit-route, and puts the ball perfectly where Mayer should be. Incomplete and we punt.

Drive Three: really weirdass sequence of things. Really BS holding call on Mayer. Then TE and Flanked WR both on line-of-scrimmage to bring back a TD to Mayer. Pyne hits WR in the hands for a score except the guy bungles it terribly by not even getting his second hand up (which was not impeded by DB.) Pyne misses a pass --- in my opinion the only one to criticize about in the 1st quarter. The fourth down play is stopped by a great edge contain which Mayer could not dominate, and insufficient athleticism by the WR sweeping to hurdle Mayer's legs which would have allowed the timing to still work. There was also earlier an overt 9 in the box vs ND at one point when we had 3 TEs in. Two of the TEs don't help the line of scrimmage, but also, while Lugg and Fisher do their jobs, some strange pulling cross-blocking get Correll and the other two lineman tangled up to the point that Alt even gets pushed down (by Correll I think --- play was a design mess.) <--- that didn't look like OLine incompetence, but rather a screwy play design vs a defense emphasizing speed and edge slashing rather than power stuffing.

IN THE FIRST QUARTER ONLY the offense's on field problems were not Pyne's nor generally Rees' from what I see on tape --- sure there were a couple of plays were Drew should have had a check-off to a pass or an option, and those could have been mental errors by Drew on field or Tommy on planning. There were a LOT of good calls which worked or should have worked. The OLine played well except for three plays all involving Patterson, but one probably caused by design rather than execution (Correll looked clumsy to me on that one). TEs caused most of the trouble (blocking, Mayer's faux-hold and his hesitation route) and the WRs were their usual incompetent crew (dropped TD, essentially never open, poor sweep run.) Whether the young TE or the flanked WR was the guilty party on the TD call-back play is not known by me. Had the TE stepped one pace back, he would have nearly touching Mayer(?) as twins in that location, something I haven't seen in the slot. (so maybe it was the WR.)

Anyway, the 1st quarter drives tell a slightly different story from most of the IE commentary I've glanced at. Doubtless the later 3 quarters will get more in line with IE sentiments. If I watch them, I'll comment again FWIW.

pretty sure when I get in the old house that I’ll be missing an an ND game for no reason.

 

[TNUtoNotreDame]

I’d like to know who this was referencing.

I don't blame them, we're a fricking joke. An offense that can't move the ball against an inferior team. I laugh at us, we accept mediocrity and some fans defend onto death.

 

[IrishFanForever23]

At 3-3 the off-season starts when the NFL caliber players start sitting… which could come very soon if ND takes a dump against UNLV but might happen after Clemson anyway. I did not watch the game yesterday and have no plans to watch it even though it’s recorded. I have no plans to watch any game the rest of the season either.

Foskey, Mayer, Patterson, Joseph and others… Good luck. It’s been fun!! Once a Domer, always a Domer

Cool

 

[Bluto]

I was promised havoc.

Oh, there has been plenty of that.

Probably not the kind you wanted, but havoc nonetheless!

 

[Sea Turtle]

I don't blame them, we're a fricking joke. An offense that can't move the ball against an inferior team. I laugh at us, we accept mediocrity and some fans defend onto death.

And yet 90% of this board doesn't want ND to change at all.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

I went to bed at 830 last night. Woke up to a loss. Started drinking at 1030 this morning. All is well now.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Imagine if Estime doesn’t fumble?

Imagine if Patterson doesn’t commit a false start on the 1st play from scrimmage?

Imagine if the OL protected Pyne & opened holes for the RB like they did the last two games vs arguably better defenses?

Imagine if they converted 4th & 2?

Imagine if they settled for the FG instead of going for the 4th & 2?

Imagine if Pyne doesn’t get strip-sacked before the end of the half?

Imagine if Pyne hits open receivers in stride?

Imagine if Pyne could consistently push the ball down field?

Imagine if our three RBs got as many carries combined as the Stanford backup RB got all by himself?

Imagine if ND offense doesn’t commit an illegal man downfield penalty on the TD pass to Mayer?

Imagine if the final pay of the game didn’t consist of one WR running a come back route short of the sticks. One that asks waaaay too much for an inexperienced WR to accomplish in order to get the 1st down.

Imagine if any of the 3 RB got more targets from Pyne?

Imagine if world class sprinter Braden Lenzy didn’t get caught from behind by a white kid for a huge loss?

Imagine if Liufau attempted to get by the blocker vs playing Bull in the Ring for a stalemate when he times his blitzes?

Imagine the forced fumbles by the ND defense bouncing ND’s way…just once?

Imagine the secondary not whiffing on multiple tackles to allow for first down conversions & YAC?

Imagine Bracy being available?

Imagine Lacy not transfering?

Imagine Cross & Ademilola not being banged up?

Imagine ND…as a team…doing their jobs to the point of putting away one of the worst teams in FBS in the first quarter vs pissing down their collective legs and getting owned by a school that hasn’t beaten a D1 opponent since last season?

I get your point & am not picking on your post. In some cases, if just one of the above happened, ND wins a close one. To put the loss on one play or call hides the fact that this wasn’t some fluke. The entire team & coaching staff failed themselves…again.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I finally watched the second quarter. Sadly there is very little to write about that. Stanford/Shaw decided to settle into the "time-honored" theory for defending ND: a) load against the run; b) play Mayer (mostly) with a press cover DB (so Pyne can't find him immediately) and almost spy him with the closest linebacker (creating a near double team slightly later in the count). The DBs play on islands vs our WRs because they think our WRs will never get open. (Garrett even remarked on this in slightly different language --- he was being more polite than I am.) This of course worked and our offense tried to short run/ short pass its way down the field waiting for one screwed up thing to stop the drive --- which usually through no fault of either Pyne or the OLine, we did. I'll mention two specific mess-ups, however.

1.) the sweep to Lenzy demonstrated something that I thought I've been seeing all his career, but could not believe it so I would shake the thought off every time this happened. He's not really very fast in actual game play. That Stanford guy ran him down like a Hare after a Tortoise --- OK, that's over the top, but the "contest" wasn't close. Rocket Ismail was the exact opposite --- very fast generally. but mind-staggering fast in field-effective speed. Lou used to say that he'd never seen anyone game-faster. Lenzy'eight-yard loss killed one drive.

2.) the late quarter Pyne fumble. Nobody got open right away, of course, but Pyne had other problems. The inner pocket was fine. Lugg completely stoned his man, and the combination of Correll and Patterson stoned theirs. The middle of the cup was "safe." BUT both tackles were speed-rushed and both were losing. Alt recovered finally but not until his guy had "shown" enough to semi-panic Pyne. Fisher totally lost his man, and that guy collapsed on Pyne, causing the fumble. Lugg's man was so out of the play that he saw the ball bounce clear and reacted to recover (the refs could see him scoop it as it was not under a pile. Lugg crashed back down on him, and I think ultimately wrestled the ball --- but the refs had blown the whistle on the recovery and Stanford got it.

Who's fault was that play? We could blame Pyne, but I don't (much.) We could blame Alt, but his guy was just a potential problem. We could blame Fisher, with maybe some justice, but jeez, a tackle can't win every battle. I blame the receivers for not getting open so Pyne had an outlet. Had any of them been open (especially on the right side of the field,) Pyne had opportunity just after he stepped up to avoid Alt's man, to fling it out, before Fisher's man got him.

I write stuff like this down (I know it's boring to some ---sorry) because I'm a true believer that almost every play is complex in why its result occurred. We have good players at most positions (as do our opponents) and different ones makes missteps of small natures, but sometimes just enough to break everything down. The real bottomline is: we must overcome these small missteps by having our offensive opportunities occur QUICKLY after the snap. Great teams snap it and DON'T ask their OLine to be perfect over a 5 or 6 count or more. That's WRs getting open, or being able to be thrown open. Our guys don't even get into positions for that.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I’d like to know who this was referencing.

Not the most professional tweet from someone being paid to cover ND recruiting. JMO.

 

[stlnd01]

I finally watched the second quarter. Sadly there is very little to write about that. Stanford/Shaw decided to settle into the "time-honored" theory for defending ND: a) load against the run; b) play Mayer (mostly) with a press cover DB (so Pyne can't find him immediately) and almost spy him with the closest linebacker (creating a near double team slightly later in the count). The DBs play on islands vs our WRs because they think our WRs will never get open. (Garrett even remarked on this in slightly different language --- he was being more polite than I am.) This of course worked and our offense tried to short run/ short pass its way down the field waiting for one screwed up thing to stop the drive --- which usually through no fault of either Pyne or the OLine, we did. I'll mention two specific mess-ups, however.

1.) the sweep to Lenzy demonstrated something that I thought I've been seeing all his career, but could not believe it so I would shake the thought off every time this happened. He's not really very fast in actual game play. That Stanford guy ran him down like a Hare after a Tortoise --- OK, that's over the top, but the "contest" wasn't close. Rocket Ismail was the exact opposite --- very fast generally. but mind-staggering fast in field-effective speed. Lou used to say that he'd never seen anyone game-faster. Lenzy'eight-yard loss killed one drive.

2.) the late quarter Pyne fumble. Nobody got open right away, of course, but Pyne had other problems. The inner pocket was fine. Lugg completely stoned his man, and the combination of Correll and Patterson stoned theirs. The middle of the cup was "safe." BUT both tackles were speed-rushed and both were losing. Alt recovered finally but not until his guy had "shown" enough to semi-panic Pyne. Fisher totally lost his man, and that guy collapsed on Pyne, causing the fumble. Lugg's man was so out of the play that he saw the ball bounce clear and reacted to recover (the refs could see him scoop it as it was not under a pile. Lugg crashed back down on him, and I think ultimately wrestled the ball --- but the refs had blown the whistle on the recovery and Stanford got it.

Who's fault was that play? We could blame Pyne, but I don't (much.) We could blame Alt, but his guy was just a potential problem. We could blame Fisher, with maybe some justice, but jeez, a tackle can't win every battle. I blame the receivers for not getting open so Pyne had an outlet. Had any of them been open (especially on the right side of the field,) Pyne had opportunity just after he stepped up to avoid Alt's man, to fling it out, before Fisher's man got him.

I write stuff like this down (I know it's boring to some ---sorry) because I'm a true believer that almost every play is complex in why its result occurred. We have good players at most positions (as do our opponents) and different ones makes missteps of small natures, but sometimes just enough to break everything down. The real bottomline is: we must overcome these small missteps by having our offensive opportunities occur QUICKLY after the snap. Great teams snap it and DON'T ask their OLine to be perfect over a 5 or 6 count or more. That's WRs getting open, or being able to be thrown open. Our guys don't even get into positions for that.

Well put. Our offense relies on too many things going right too often and/or for too long, especially given the youth/low talent level of so many of our key offensive players. Keep it simple. We seemed to eventually get that last season, when we shifted to having Coan just drop back and throw quickly. This year, with a less experienced QB, we should have retained that lesson. We did not.

 

[MacIrish75]

Imagine if Estime doesn’t fumble?

I refuse to do that lol

 

[NDFAN2008]

Keep hearing people complain on social media that the stadium atmosphere is average at best. What do we gotta do to get a atmosphere like Penn State? It's been a few years since I've been to a game but last time I went you have a bunch of old people complaining because everyone is standing.

 

[thekid33]

Keep hearing people complain on social media that the stadium atmosphere is average at best. What do we gotta do to get a atmosphere like Penn State? It's been a few years since I've been to a game but last time I went you have a bunch of old people complaining because everyone is standing.

Use ND Stadium for 1 home game a year and then play every home game as a Shamrock Series game
We are undefeated in Shamrock Series games and the atmosphere is way better.

 

[Irish#1]

Ouch! That is all.

 

[anarin]

After watching this game, its very possible ND loses to Syracuse, Clemson and USC. I mean we all saw this being a down year, but 6-6 is a very hard pill to swallow. And it may cause them to lose out on some really important recruits.

 

[Free Manera]

Keep hearing people complain on social media that the stadium atmosphere is average at best. What do we gotta do to get a atmosphere like Penn State? It's been a few years since I've been to a game but last time I went you have a bunch of old people complaining because everyone is standing.

The stadium atmosphere needs work no doubt. And the players need to be put in like sensory deprivation tanks or something on game day so they don't come out like they're going to church. But. When a team plays like landfill leachate, the crowd is gonna be lame.

 

[BilboBaggins]

After watching this game, its very possible ND loses to Syracuse, Clemson and USC. I mean we all saw this being a down year, but 6-6 is a very hard pill to swallow. And it may cause them to lose out on some really important recruits.

The best ND recruiting class this century was after an awful season.

 

[Sea Turtle]

After watching this game, its very possible ND loses to Syracuse, Clemson and USC. I mean we all saw this being a down year, but 6-6 is a very hard pill to swallow. And it may cause them to lose out on some really important recruits.

No we didn't. And neither did the polls, sports writers or coaches. We were ranked 5th. We were all disappointed that we weren't ranked again at 3-2 because everyone knows how good we really are.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

After watching this game, its very possible ND loses to Syracuse, Clemson and USC. I mean we all saw this being a down year, but 6-6 is a very hard pill to swallow. And it may cause them to lose out on some really important recruits.

I’m not counting on them beating UNLV. I know they haven’t played anyone & got smoked their last two games w/ backup QB, but if ND can lose to Stanford & Marshall, they can sure as hell lose to UNLV. The Rebels have to know it’s possible as well and assume ND is reeling. Belief is a huge asset.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Smoked a pork butt yesterday and made tacos. Realized I didnt have any salsa. Anyone have any good recipes?

 

[IrishLion]

No we didn't. And neither did the polls, sports writers or coaches. We were ranked 5th. We were all disappointed that we weren't ranked again at 3-2 because everyone knows how good we really are.

I tried warning people during one of the season prediction threads (or maybe the Marcus Freeman thread, or maybe in both places), that this team could be anywhere from 8-4 to 11-1.

We knew the program was short on offensive playmakers, short on depth in some places, and would be lead by a first-time head coach. Throw in a couple of injuries, some of the general ND-game-related weirdness we see every year, and then some learning moments from Freeman, and suddenly you're looking at 8 wins being a possibility... and that was how I felt even if there WERE NOT any colossal coaching failures on Freeman or his staff's part.

I got some pushback on the '8-4' call, with a few people telling me the only thing that would result in 8 wins (or less) would be Freeman being a total sham.

I don't know if Freeman is a total sham. But I do know that we have seen some colossal failures from Tommy, in addition to injuries, general ND-game-related weirdness (aka weird turnover luck), and some first-year hiccups in Freeman's decision making.

I felt like we had some difficulties on the horizon, but I didn't anticipate looking at a team that would be fighting for 7-5, 6-6. I think you give Freeman another year or two to prove his continued effectiveness as a recruiter, to prove that Golden can coordinate a defense to the levels we're accustomed to seeing, and for Freeman to figure out his OC mess.

If Freeman hires from within, or hires a more 'conservative' OC from the outside... that's a huge red flag.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Not defending Rees…but it’s not ALL on Rees

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Pyne has been awful. But the people pissed at Rees are justified --> Why Pyne can't make the right read or make that "layup" of a throw has to also fall back on coaching. Why there isn't a competent QB in the room who can make better reads or better throws also falls back on coaching.

Pyne absolutely has to hit that throw, no question. But Rees shouldn't be calling an offense where that missed throw results in ND losing a game. Instead it should've just resulted in the score being 38-16 instead of 45-16.... Rees is running an offense where there is zero margin for error. It's fucking ridiculous given the QB he has and the skill position talent he has....

Idk why people are hating on any of our WRs right now. They're being set up to fail no matter what.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Not defending Rees…but it’s not ALL on Rees

Pyne is bad
Rees got Pyne

 

[FOTY977]

Not defending Rees…but it’s not ALL on Rees

Let's go after the QB coach, then.