Spring Practice Thread 2018

IrishLion

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Clark Lea on safety Alohi Gilman:<br><br>"He’s got ‘it’ as a leader.”</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/986246669841895424?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 17, 2018</a></blockquote>
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IrishLion

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Clark Lea on moving Jordan Genmark Heath to linebacker, notably behind Drue Tranquill:<br><br>"I’m not doing that to watch the game from the sideline."</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/986250577989562368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 17, 2018</a></blockquote>
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IrishLion

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lea on the rover position: I wouldn't say that depth chart is set yet. I think we'll work through the fall on that.</p>— BlueandGold.com (@BGInews) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGInews/status/986245274057302019?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 17, 2018</a></blockquote>
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FightingIrishLover7

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lea on the rover position: I wouldn't say that depth chart is set yet. I think we'll work through the fall on that.</p>— BlueandGold.com (@BGInews) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGInews/status/986245274057302019?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 17, 2018</a></blockquote>
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So, Simon confirmed
 

Irish#1

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From the Indy Star


SOUTH BEND — There have been many subtle position changes at Notre Dame this spring. Jerry Tillery has moved from nose tackle to the 3-technique position; Houston Griffith has moved from cornerback to safety; safety Jordan Genmark-Heath is cross-training at linebacker; and wide receiver Jafar Armstrong is splitting time at running back, to name a few.

Perhaps the most notable switch coaches made after last season involves fifth-year senior and captain Drue Tranquill, who is playing his third position in three seasons under his third defensive coordinator. Tranquill started out as a strong safety under Brian VanGorder, moved to rover for a year under Mike Elko, and is now playing “Buck” linebacker with Clark Lea.

The move to Buck, a weakside linebacker position in this system, is one of the reasons Tranquill decided to come back for a fifth year and not leave for the NFL. He has the opportunity to be an every-down player and potentially even more productive than he was in 2017. Last year Tranquill was all over the place: He was Notre Dame’s third-leading tackler (85) and second in tackles for loss (10.5); and he recovered fumbles, made sacks and recorded an interception.


“It’s a good fit for him. That’s a big, strong, explosive player that handles himself well,” Lea said. “That position also has to play in space too, so some of the things you learn and honed as a rover kind of align as a Buck.”

Senior Asmar Bilal is poised to take over the rover position, though he’s also been cross-training at linebacker. Sophomores Isaiah Robertson and Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah are working behind him.

“We’ll work through the fall with that,” Lea said, implying the rover competition continues.

Change inside the DL
Jerry Tillery, perhaps the most interesting Fighting Irish player, also made a position change this spring. Notre Dame doesn’t play with two defensive tackles, but rather a nose tackle and a 3-technique. Tillery played nose last season, but will shift to 3-technique this fall.

Unlike the nose tackle, this alignment puts a player one-on-one with an offensive lineman, allowing him to attack the B-gap (between the guard and tackle). Whether Tillery is defending the run or rushing the passer, his focus will always be to cause chaos in the backfield. An example of a prototypical 3-technique is Aaron Donald, who is 6-1, 285. Tillery is 6-6, 299.

Lea explained why the move works.

“Jerry is a dynamic, athletic defensive lineman,” Lea said. “In a lot of ways, the 3-technique position is where you want to have your most disruptive and athletic pass rush — not always drawing the double-team, having a little more one-on-one situation from that position. So it’s just a little better fit that way.

“He’s done a great job, already made his presence felt there. It is different, so I imagine through the end of the spring and summer into fall camp well see more strides.”

Tillery, who wrestled with the decision to leave early for the NFL, led the team with sacks (4.5) and quarterback hurries (11), and was third in tackles for loss (nine) last season.

Lea noted that overall, the defensive line is probably the “most steady” position group from “top to bottom" right now.

“They have good depth and experience,” he said. “I’m really excited for those guys and they’re excited. You can tell by the way they practice. They’ve really taken to this Year 2 a deeper understanding. They’re more physical in the middle, more dynamic on the edges; all that stuff is coming into play.

"I’m not trying to oversell it, but I do think we feel good about where the front is and we’re excited to watch them continue to progress through the fall.”

‘Not just to throw paint at the wall’
Jordan Genmark-Heath was one of the more interesting players to probably ever come to Notre Dame. Originally from Sweden, Genmark-Heath grew up playing soccer and hockey. He taught himself how to play football by watching YouTube instructional videos after his family moved to San Diego when he was a kid.

It’s a good thing Genmark-Heath is a quick learner. He started out playing safety in his freshman season last fall, but coaches are considering a position switch to “Will” linebacker in 2018.

“Jordan is a dynamic player,” Lea said. “We don’t move a guy unless we identify things that we think he brings to the table that will allow him to be successful. It’s not something we’re doing just to throw paint at the wall.

“I would argue he’s looked very natural over there. It’s not a shut door; we know what he can do at safety.”

Genmark-Heath, who mostly played special teams last year, recorded 16 tackles as a freshman, with his best performance coming in the Citrus Bowl against LSU where he tallied five.

Brian Kelly noted it’s Genmark-Heath’s size (he’s nearly 6-1 and 211 lbs.) coupled with his instincts, contact skills and physicality that qualify him for consideration at linebacker. But nothing is permanent yet. The coaches don’t plan to make a final decision until the fall.

“We need some more (time),” Kelly said. “I’m not a guy who likes to just move guys to move them. We have a plan. And the plan would be for him to take that position over and let Asmar stay at rover and focus on that. That would be the ideal situation.”

The move would be beneficial for depth purposes considering Tranquill and middle linebacker Te’von Coney will be graduating after this year.

“I think you always have an eye on the future,” Lea said. “Everything you do is first about this season, but also thinking about how to stay out in front of it.

“As it pertains to what (Genmark-Heath's) doing right now, the immediacy of getting reps there, that has to do with this fall. If he were to stay in that role, I’m not doing that for him to watch the game from the sideline.”
 
K

koonja

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So take it for what it’s worth, but just listened to this week’s ISD podcast. They’re overall pretty high on every position group (even safety).

But Mike says there’s zero pass rush and Matt didn’t disagree with him. They’re not getting any pressure in the 11 on 11 that they’ve seen, which has probably been a handful of practices by now. Nothing from Okwara, and Daelin Hayes looks the same. He’s actually better against the run they argue, and that’s disappointing because they need him to be a pass rusher. It sounds like Ade is actually the team’s best pass rusher based on spring. If true, this would be a big bummer. You’d like to see these guys take a step forward, and they’re high star players (Hayes, Okwara, Kahlid).
 
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Me2SouthBend

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So take it for what it’s worth, but just listened to this week’s ISD podcast. They’re overall pretty high on every position group (even safety).

But Mike says there’s zero pass rush and Matt didn’t disagree with him. They’re not getting any pressure in the 11 on 11 that they’ve seen, which has probably been a handful of practices by now. Nothing from Okwara, and Daelin Hayes looks the same. He’s actually better than the run they argue, and that’s disappointing because they need him to be a pass rusher. It sounds like Ade is actually the team’s best pass rusher based on spring. If true, this would be a big bummer. You’d like to see these guys take a step forward, and they’re high star players (Hayes, Okwara, Kahlid).

Or the glass half full interpretation is that the O Line is awesome. Hope springs eternal. Go Irish!
 

ab2cmiller

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Or the glass half full interpretation is that the O Line is awesome. Hope springs eternal. Go Irish!

8 year old boy was in his backyard and begs his Dad to watch him hit the baseball.
Boy tosses baseball up in the air .... boy swings and misses. Strike 1
Boy grabs the ball from the ground and tosses it up in the air and swings and misses again. Strike 2.
Boy grabs the ball from the ground and tosses it up in the air and swings and misses again. Strike 3.
Dad says "Don't be sad son, keep trying, you will get better".
Son says, I'm not sad, I just realized I'm a great pitcher.
 

Old Man Mike

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Repeat: Our OLine is going to be great
Repeat: Our OLine is going to be great
Repeat.....


Our DLine will be great once they get away from our OLine.
 

IrishLion

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https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/6111/blue-gold-game-format-released

Appears to be Offense vs Defense, rather than Blue vs Gold.

First half will have normal time-keeping rules.
Halftime is 10 minutes.
Second half will be two 12-minute quarters with running clock. Could be more/less depending on how the first half goes.

Scoring for offense is standard.

Defense can earn points:
- 6 points for defensive TD
- 3 points for forcing a turnover
- 3 points for a 3-and-out
- 2 points for a stop (forcing a punt?)
- 1 point for each sack/tackle-for-loss

No kickoffs.
Possessions start at the 25. Offense can place on either hash or middle of the field.
No rush on punts or PATs.
All punts will be fair-caught.
 

beryirish

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I understand the concept is to better the team so they keep the teams Offense vs Defense so all the 1's,2's,3's are all together and not separated. But i like, as a fan, seeing two full teams getting after it.

It makes it more of a game than watching a practice.
 

condoms SUCk

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Can you define great? What measurable traits will make them "great"?

They'll be better than good??

IMO- "great" measurable traits would be
1). Consistency- executing the majority of plays at an extremely high level of proficiency.
2). OL consistently creates running lanes for RB/QB's.
3). Running game averages over 200 YPG and around 5 YPP
4). For the most part elimination of drive killing penalties (i.e. false starts, holding) especially during critical situations.
5). Majority of the time (80% or so) the QB has time to allow long developing passing plays to occur. (long developing pass play is 15+ yards)
6). They're the discussion for the Joe Moore award.

You know, just the little things, not asking for much.
 
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Old Man Mike

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I'm sure that no one could define "great" to your satisfaction.

For me, "great" will be an OLine which in almost every game (no one is perfect, even "great" players) produces better results against the opposing defense than that defense typically allows --- i.e. they outperform other OLines on the field. Coupled with our usual tough schedule will be proof enough for most. Secondly, persons in the sport will begin, as the season progresses, to talk about the OLine in terms of it being a basic strength of the team --- a team with many recognizable strengths. Thirdly, game commentators will find themselves using airtime talking about this OLineman and that OLineman, because those players (like Q etc) are standing out too clearly to be ignored --- in many other teams' games the commentary is almost absent about a team's line, except to talk about errors. Fourthly, Oline aficionados will begin talking of the OLine as a Top-10 unit. At the end of the year, draft predictors will predict both Bars and Mustipher as solid pro linemen, and they will be drafted respectfully high. Other football commentators will note that Hainsey, Kraemer, and Eichenberg are all future pros.

Other people will sit around bitching at every small error as if the opposition has no athletes ever capable of making occasional plays, while ignoring the 90+% lineplay grades that game evaluators will make for all five starters.
 

Ndaccountant

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I'm sure that no one could define "great" to your satisfaction.

For me, "great" will be an OLine which in almost every game (no one is perfect, even "great" players) produces better results against the opposing defense than that defense typically allows --- i.e. they outperform other OLines on the field.

So, better than the average of the opposing teams opponents, no?

Secondly, persons in the sport will begin, as the season progresses, to talk about the OLine in terms of it being a basic strength of the team --- a team with many recognizable strengths.

It may be the strength of the team, but does this view go pear shaped if they finish 8-4? At that record, they probably wouldn't have many strengths, no?

Thirdly, game commentators will find themselves using airtime talking about this OLineman and that OLineman, because those players (like Q etc) are standing out too clearly to be ignored --- in many other teams' games the commentary is almost absent about a team's line, except to talk about errors.

air time is a strange metric when they have to talk about something, but okay.

Fourthly, Oline aficionados will begin talking of the OLine as a Top-10 unit. At the end of the year, draft predictors will predict both Bars and Mustipher as solid pro linemen, and they will be drafted respectfully high. Other football commentators will note that Hainsey, Kraemer, and Eichenberg are all future pros.

Top 10 in what regard? Look, I love Q and Big Mike. But the O-line was not "top 10" across the board (just one metric, but it was good one) and was only top 10 in one metric according to football outsiders (aficionados of football metrics). And being drafted is great, but there are lots of people drafter from crappy teams/units.

Other people will sit around bitching at every small error as if the opposition has no athletes ever capable of making occasional plays, while ignoring the 90+% lineplay grades that game evaluators will make for all five starters.

I think there is a finer point here. I didn't ask you about the metrics to tear it down and be a jerk, but rather to illustrate the point that most of the argument is subjective.

When people say "we get stuffed too much on short yardage with a great line", there is merit there. We were outside the top 35 last year. That said, they were only 7 pps away from being top 10, meaning that being top 10 and top 40 may only be 1 extra first down per game. It's a fine line and both people can be right. I think we could move this conversation along by using real metrics that industry professionals use. If the results are not "top 10", it isn't the end of the world. But at least we can start discussing tangible things.
 

Old Man Mike

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If "most of the argument is subjective", do you not invalidate your own argument? I.e., no strong argument can be made about any "external matter", if one believes that it's all "subjective", and by inference, flawed.

Obviously ANYTHING humans try to do has a huge dose of subjectivity, and rarely does anything achieve the status of idealized "science." (including "science itself.) But it is not as if experienced observation (i.e. coaches and evaluators) are wasting their time rating things.

My comments about out-doing rival OLines vs same competition in terms of measurable productivity would seem numerical enough to reach an accountant's interest at the least. My memory of our OLine receiving the Best OLine award makes me think that there MUST have been some merit to that, despite contrarian arguments above. My comment about game grades being high are based upon the "irrational faith" that coaches doing such grading have some idea what they're talking about. They HAVE human minds of course, so, philosophically, everything they do is "subjective." etc....

As is this "conversation" .....
As is this Life ......

and the subjectivity argument dissolves into meaninglessness --- if it's just all subjective. And if that is what one believes, why ask any questions at all? Particularly if one in answering does not acknowledge, even briefly, that any of another's views might have hidden in them some merit.

..... but why am I bothering? THAT's the real mystery.
 

snoopdog

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Impossible to compare O-lines throughout the P5.

Every team plays a different schedule.

It is much easier but not exact in the nfl, where scheduled are closer.
 

CoachB

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Pardon the interruption in the OLine debate, but I just wanted to take a moment to say OMM, you are the man! I am a fan.
 

Ndaccountant

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If "most of the argument is subjective", do you not invalidate your own argument? I.e., no strong argument can be made about any "external matter", if one believes that it's all "subjective", and by inference, flawed.

Obviously ANYTHING humans try to do has a huge dose of subjectivity, and rarely does anything achieve the status of idealized "science." (including "science itself.) But it is not as if experienced observation (i.e. coaches and evaluators) are wasting their time rating things.

My comments about out-doing rival OLines vs same competition in terms of measurable productivity would seem numerical enough to reach an accountant's interest at the least. My memory of our OLine receiving the Best OLine award makes me think that there MUST have been some merit to that, despite contrarian arguments above. My comment about game grades being high are based upon the "irrational faith" that coaches doing such grading have some idea what they're talking about. They HAVE human minds of course, so, philosophically, everything they do is "subjective." etc....

As is this "conversation" .....
As is this Life ......

and the subjectivity argument dissolves into meaninglessness --- if it's just all subjective. And if that is what one believes, why ask any questions at all? Particularly if one in answering does not acknowledge, even briefly, that any of another's views might have hidden in them some merit.

..... but why am I bothering? THAT's the real mystery.

Once again you miss the point as you are too busy waxing useless hyperbole.

First, I didn't say the entire discussion is subjective, but rather your awkward and useless points like in game commentary mean very little. And the one metric you do throw out there about outperforming another line, your criteria is being better than the average. Hardly "great".

At any point between your tired "why bother" posting, did you actually look at football outsiders data and approach? Or is that too new age for your liking since some centenarian watching VHS tapes didn't do it?

They offer good metrics that offer up good discussion points. Some metrics are neutralized for opponents while others or not. But my hunch is that if it reaches a different conclusion thab everyone is "great", you will ingore it and come back with some other passive aggressive dig that is your MO. So why bother, am I right?
 
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woolybug25

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Once again you miss the point as you are too busy waxing useless hyperbole.

First, I didn't say the entire discussion is subjective, but rather your awkward and useless points like in game commentary mean very little. And the one metric you do throw out there about outperforming another line, your criteria is being better than the average. Hardly "great".

At any point between your tired "why bother" posting, did you actually look at football outsiders data and approach? Or is that too new age for your liking since some centenarian watching VHS tapes didn't do it?

They offer good metrics that offer up good discussion points. Some metrics are neutralized for opponents while others or not. But my hunch is that if it reaches a different conclusion thab everyone is "great", you will ingore it and come back with some other passive aggressive dig that is your MO. So why bother, am I right?

This is a completely unnecessary response. Just mean spirited for the sake of being mean spirited.

Additionally, nobody wants to read your bickering. There’s an Oline thread and you have pm boxes. Please do the rest of us a favor and utilize those for your back and forth bickering. Because the rest of us just keep seeing this thread bumped with your nonsense.
 

D-BOE34

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This is a completely unnecessary response. Just mean spirited for the sake of being mean spirited.

Additionally, nobody wants to read your bickering. There’s an Oline thread and you have pm boxes. Please do the rest of us a favor and utilize those for your back and forth bickering. Because the rest of us just keep seeing this thread bumped with your nonsense.

#FactsOnly
 

beryirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Offensive line coach Jeff Quinn on recruiting to Notre Dame: "There’s a spirit to this place like no place I’ve been."</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/986969061086068737?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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beryirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jeff Quinn said he feels like he knows the best position (i.e. tackle or guard) for everybody within the Irish line coming out of spring ball. A couple guys have shifted around during the past few weeks.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/986969762575147009?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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beryirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jeff Quinn asked about Notre Dame’s offense in terms of ratios of rush vs. pass. <br><br>Said that’s up to Chip Long and Brian Kelly.</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/986971540528029696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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beryirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jeff Quinn on offensive linemen as captains: "Any time your big guys run the program, I think you always have a better chance of succeeding."</p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/986973746928996352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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beryirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"It's his turn and his time." - Jeff Quinn on Liam Eichenberg.</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/986970693559570432?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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beryirish

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Quinn says Trevor Ruhland, Dillan Gibbons, Alex Bars and Colin Grunhard have worked at center. <br><br>Adds Luke Jones could get work there once he arrives in June.</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/986973203867291651?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 19, 2018</a></blockquote>
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