Silly Season '13 (Coaching Changes)

stlnd01

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I realize some of you don't much care for Penn State, but is there any reason why it couldn't be, as a program, on a level with jobs like Oklahoma or Michigan or Georgia? Maybe not tip-top of the heap, but consistently in the hunt in the Big Ten and, in a good year, compete for the title shot or a BCS bowl (or whatever we'll call them).
They've got plenty of resources and facilities, good recruiting turf in Pennsylvania, NJ, Maryland, NY, a good brand and tradition. The place was on autopilot for a decade at the end of Paterno's career, and then the NCAA sanctions. What they need is a coach capable of pulling it all together, and an administraiton that will get out of the past and let him.
 
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koonja

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I realize some of you don't much care for Penn State, but is there any reason why it couldn't be, as a program, on a level with jobs like Oklahoma or Michigan or Georgia? Maybe not tip-top of the heap, but consistently in the hunt in the Big Ten and, in a good year, a the title mix or a BCS bowl (or whatever we'll call them).
They've got plenty of resources and facilities, good recruiting turf in Pennsylvania, NJ, Maryland, NY, a good brand and tradition. The place was on autopilot for a decade at the end of Paterno's career, and then the NCAA sanctions. What they need is a coach capable of pulling it all together, and an administraiton that will get out of the past and let him.

No reason at all, IMO. They have a great stadium with passionate fans, and they're in a location that's advantageous compared to the rest of the BIG 10 (i.e., not burried in the midwest). I'd argue they're in the best location of any BIG 10 team.
 
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Buster Bluth

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No reason at all, IMO. They have a great stadium with passionate fans, and they're in a location that's advantageous compared to the rest of the BIG 10 (i.e., not burried in the midwest). I'd argue they're in the best location of any BIG 10 team.

I'm not following that at all. Please elaborate.
 
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koonja

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I'm not following that at all. Please elaborate.

If you don't think Pennsylvania is in a better recruiting location than the likes of Indiana, wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, etc, then let's agree to disagree.
 
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Buster Bluth

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If you don't think Pennsylvania is in a better recruiting location than the likes of Indiana, wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, etc, then let's agree to disagree.

You're missing some, in particular:

ohio.jpg
 

Polish Leppy 22

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If you don't think Pennsylvania is in a better recruiting location than the likes of Indiana, wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa, etc, then let's agree to disagree.

Agree. PA is top 5 in the country for producing college talent, also bordered by Ohio, MD, and NJ.
 

IrishLax

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On the "how good of a job is Penn State?" debate... if you really pay attention to college football, you'll notice that there are pretty distinct tiers (although slightly debatable year to year for teams on the fringes) for football schools.

Tier 1 is all of your schools with high prestige, massive fan bases, $$$, talent recruiting ability, etc. Tier 1 you can actually split into a Tier 1A and Tier 1B, with your Tier 1B schools basically having everything a Tier 1A school has except as much of a legacy/prestige/$$/exposure/etc. For example, Alabama is a Tier 1A school... LSU is a Tier 1B school. Tier 2 are your competitive major conference teams that can and do win conference championships and can compete at the highest level in a given year, but are missing something that keeps them from being Tier 1. Tier 3 are your major conference also-rans or rare non-AQ "powers" (most of which have now joined a major conference). Then you have Tier 4 and Tier 5 below that but no one cares about those teams really.

It is very, very rare for a coach to move from one job in a tier to another job in the same tier. In fact, I can't remember the last time it happened. It's possible for someone to go from Tier 1B to 1A if there is a compelling reason, but that is also very rare. The reason is that you're much more inclined to keep building with what you've got then uproot and start over at a comparable place for comparable money.

Penn State is a Tier 1B job, like Georgia or Oregon. Off the top of my head, there are probably about 15-20 Tier 1 jobs, then about twice as many Tier 2 jobs (Michigan State, UCLA, Stanford, etc.). PSU has all the tools to win and win big, and for the coach to be compensated very well while doing so. It's going to be less attractive because of the sanctions, but they should be able to make a strong run at basically any coach of a Tier 3 school and some Tier 2 school coaches, and NFL coaches are always a wildcard.

When ND grabbed Kelly, he was coaching at a Tier 3 school. When Mack Brown went to Texas, it was Tier 3 to Tier 1. Urban Meyer to Florida? Tier 3 to Tier 1. Saban to LSU? Tier 2 to Tier 1. This is how hiring is typically done, and usually how it works out for the best for a Tier 1 school.

A case can be made for Miami being Tier 2 or at the very low end of Tier 1B. The move to PSU was an upgrade on some levels for him, and for others it would be a downgrade. That makes it tough. For a candidate like Franklin, you're talking Tier 3 to Tier 1. He'll jump at that.
 

IrishLax

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Interesting note... Browns and Redskins both reached out to Franklin with interview requests, and Frankling also interviewed with the Texans before they hired O'Brien.

Top two candidates for Browns are McDaniel and Stoops... will be interesting to see how that goes.

So per reports, Lions, Vikings, Browns, and Redskins are all looking at or have considered college coaches.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Agree. PA is top 5 in the country for producing college talent, also bordered by Ohio, MD, and NJ.

The problem with this strict thinking is that programs recruit regionally. Really, most programs in the Big Ten can recruit in all of Big Ten territory if they had the coaches and wins to get it done.

Penn State's advantage is that they are a premier name in the states you named.
 

arrowryan

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So Saban to Texas would've been Tier 1A to another Tier 1A?

Strong to Texas is Tier 3 to Tier 1A?

Golden to Penn St would've been Tier 1B to Tier 1B?
 

IrishLax

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So Saban to Texas would've been Tier 1A to another Tier 1A?

Strong to Texas is Tier 3 to Tier 1A?

Golden to Penn St would've been Tier 1B to Tier 1B?

Yup. Although a case could be made that Miami is Tier 2. I'm really not sure on the Hurricanes, they don't exactly have a Tier 1 fanbase or money, but they have a lot of other things going for them.
 

IrishSteelhead

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Per Rivals:

Pennsylvania is #6 of all states in terms of producing BCS conference signees.

There is an understandably HUGE drop off after the top 3 (Texas, Florida, California), and another large drop off after 4 (Georgia) to 5 (Ohio).
 

IrishLax

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Here is a good article on the pecking order of college football. Mandel updates it about every 5 years or so and this one is about a year old. College football program pecking order of kings, barons; Mailbag - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

Wow, this is almost exactly what I'm talking about. Although I'm a bit more discerning with my "kings"... I draw a line between true "kings" and lets call them "princes."

Tier 1A: Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan, Ohio State, Oklahoma
Tier 1B: Florida, Florida State, LSU, Penn State, Georgia, Miami (?), Nebraska (?), Oregon (?)
 
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IrishSteelhead

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Per 247, the 2014 class stacks up like this (ranked by concentration of high recruits):

1. Florida
2. Texas
3. California
4. Georgia
5. Louisiana
6. Virginia
7. Alabama
8. Ohio
9. North Carolina
10. New Jersey

* I expect the Rust Belt states to continue slipping behind the likes of Georgia, Louisiana, etc.
 
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IrishSteelhead

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Wow, this is almost exactly what I'm talking about. Although I'm a bit more discerning with my "kings"... I draw a line between true "kings" and lets call them "princes."

Tier 1A: Alabama, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Michigan, and Ohio State.
Tier 1B: Florida, Florida State, LSU, Penn State, Georgia, Miami (?), Nebraska (?), Oregon (?)

I'd put Oklahoma in 1A
 

Polish Leppy 22

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The problem with this strict thinking is that programs recruit regionally. Really, most programs in the Big Ten can recruit in all of Big Ten territory if they had the coaches and wins to get it done.

Penn State's advantage is that they are a premier name in the states you named.

Sure, but Penn State carries a little more weight than some. Ohio State should lock down Ohio, MSU and UM should split their state, etc. etc., which is why PA is at an advantage in being bordered by good talent in NJ and MD. PSU is a lot sexier, even now, than Rutgers and Maryland.
 

IrishLax

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Sure, but Penn State carries a little more weight than some. Ohio State should lock down Ohio, MSU and UM should split their state, etc. etc., which is why PA is at an advantage in being bordered by good talent in NJ and MD. PSU is a lot sexier, even now, than Rutgers and Maryland.

This cannot be understated, and the proximity to Virginia/DC shouldn't be understated either. Basically, should PSU ever get rolling with the right coach, they'd almost have their pick of talent from the mid-Atlantic. If you go look at the amount of talent in PA, MD, VA, DC, NJ, NY this year... it's #1 class worthy without even having to go into Ohio.
 

ulukinatme

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Texas Coaching Search from Prevail and Ride

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stlnd01

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What Lax said. Yes, Penn State is a 1B job. It may not be the best of the best, but it's certainly better than most. And in the hands of the right coach/administration they can return to being a national power, once the sanctions are through. They've got to work through some of their own issues first, apparently. But if they do that and land a good coach there's no structural reason they couldn't go toe-to-toe with Michigan and even Ohio State long-term in the Big Ten.
 

rtrn2glory

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a lil off topic:

i got a buddy who stays pretty tapped in to the Lions and he said that everything he's hearing is that they're going all in on Wisenhunt and he really expects him to be their next head coach
 
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