Russia Invades Ukraine

Giddyup

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I’ll give u a pro tip. If you’re siding with Lindsey Graham on war you’re probably killing people “legally” for money. Ur a drug dealer on steroids.
 

Giddyup

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Lol. I’ll let u know what started happening in 2014 but u probably wouldn’t believe me anyway.
 

GowerND11

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Lol. I’ll let u know what started happening in 2014 but u probably wouldn’t believe me anyway.
Russia invaded Crimea because they are a bully and want to recreate the Russian Empire?

Or is it somehow some red pilled conspiracy brought on by the Washington elites?
 

calvegas04

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Russia invaded Crimea because they are a bully and want to recreate the Russian Empire?

Or is it somehow some red pilled conspiracy brought on by the Washington elites?
Why do you hate the US when trump isn't in control?
 

Giddyup

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Ukrainians want Russia to win. Only the elites want to kill Russians off. Normal Ukrainians would probably love to be Russian again. They don’t want to fight their “brothers”. Ukraine politicians better ramp up the western mercenaries
 

Giddyup

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Many many rubles. It’s what it is. This is a war for money and Ukrainians aren’t that dumb to get thrown in the meat grinder. Love our country hate our deep state.
 

calvegas04

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Many many rubles. It’s what it is. This is a war for money and Ukrainians aren’t that dumb to get thrown in the meat grinder. Love our country hate our deep state.
Stop with the "OUR" stuff unless you are referencing russia
 

IrishLax

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Ukrainians want Russia to win. Only the elites want to kill Russians off. Normal Ukrainians would probably love to be Russian again. They don’t want to fight their “brothers”. Ukraine politicians better ramp up the western mercenaries

You really, earnestly need to get better sources of information. This is straight up Russian talking points, the same ones that had them saying Ukrainians would welcome them and that they’d be hailed as liberators and take Kyiv in 3 days.

There are *parts* of Ukraine that are very sympathetic to Russia. There are also parts of Ukraine that are the opposite. You are very poorly informed if you think “normal Ukrainians would love to be Russian again.”

Either way, it’s comical to unironically cite those desertion numbers without mentioning Russian desertion, attrition, and recruitment issues.
 

Giddyup

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These are commonly known things and reported by the AP news and Financial Times etc. that Ukraine is struggling with desertions. Unless they are Russian asset news outlets too I think it’s safe to say many Ukrainian men want nothing to do with this.
 

Irish#1

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These are commonly known things and reported by the AP news and Financial Times etc. that Ukraine is struggling with desertions. Unless they are Russian asset news outlets too I think it’s safe to say many Ukrainian men want nothing to do with this.
That could be said for both sides.
 

IrishLax

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These are commonly known things and reported by the AP news and Financial Times etc. that Ukraine is struggling with desertions. Unless they are Russian asset news outlets too I think it’s safe to say many Ukrainian men want nothing to do with this.
Of course they have desertions, conditions are brutal and the war has been dragging on for years. They are running out of people who are willing or able to fight.

Now do Russia.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Bro is unironically tweeting Glenn Greenwald in the year 2024
Can you fill me in on Glenn? I know that guy has said some outlandish things, but I didn't realize he had become a meme. I mean he did win a Pulitzer for his investigative journalism, did he not? I thought Liberals respected that guy back in the day, no?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I largely categorize people like Glenn as "having attacked too many powerful people and now he's paying the price."

How many public figures/journalists have we seen attack the corporate establishment's views/actions only to be attacked themselves by all angles of the corporate media, ultimately swaying public opinion of said public figure/journalist? This country doesn't kill journos, but they do have their own way of rendering them obsolete.

Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I always assumed that's what happened to Glenn. Do you have info on him that would clear that up?
 
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ColoradoIrish

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Can you fill me in on Glenn? I know that guy has said some outlandish things, but I didn't realize he had become a meme. I mean he did win a Pulizer for his investigative journalism, did he not? I thought Liberals respected that guy back in the day, no?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I largely categorize people like Glenn as "having attacked too many powerful people and now he's paying the price."

How many public figures/journalists have we seen attack the corporate establishment's views/actions only to be attacked themselves by all angles of the corporate media, ultimately swaying public opinion of said public figure/journalist? This country doesn't kill journos, but they do have their own way of rendering them obsolete.

Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I always assumed that's what happened to Glenn. Do you have info on him that would clear that up?
Not sure if this helps, but this seems to cover most of the reasons people have shifted opinions on the guy.


It's the most concise thing I've found recently that covers your question.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Not sure if this helps, but this seems to cover most of the reasons people have shifted opinions on the guy.


It's the most concise thing I've found recently that covers your question.

Thanks, I'll give it a read.

Edit: @ColoradoIrish Meh, I get what he's saying but it's not convincing enough to me to just eliminate Glenn as a source of information. Sounds a lot like a whataboutism. I agree that becoming a caricature of one particular mindset or one way of thinking/reporting can lead to skewed and biased journalism, but I'm not convinced that Glenn should be labeled as a LOL-type source though. One voice among many differing voices to culminate a more well-rounded view of things, seems healthy. The way I've read Glenn is, "Hmm, interesting points. On to the next," as I peruse different viewpoints on any given topic.
 
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NorthDakota

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Of course they have desertions, conditions are brutal and the war has been dragging on for years. They are running out of people who are willing or able to fight.

Now do Russia.
They have some number of young men between 18-25 it seems. You'd be hard pressed to find a more able group in a population suited to fight. I get that Europeans have a severe crunch in their demographics, but refusing to draft young men looks weird.

I'm curious how many people either country have available. I have zero special expertise in either of the following, just going on "gut" here.

1) I don't really trust either one of them to be accurate about their losses. The "official numbers" are just absurd on their face. I get that countries are reluctant to share information about casualties, but they'd be better off just not saying anything if that's the case.

2) I also don't trust either to be honest about their population as a whole. I see claims from the UN that Ukraine is a country of 41 million people, but that includes areas under Russian control. The IMF says the population is 33 million. Reuters reports it's around 28 million. Im not sure if that is including refugees or not. Ukraine hasn't had a census in over 20 years.

The UN says there are about 4 million refugees in Poland, Russia, and Germany alone. Another 500k in Chechia. Who knows if that has grown or shrank but it seems reasonable that the number fluctuates as some leave or return.

Russia's claimed population is 147 million per a 2021 census. But it's also a giant country with remote populations and serial corruption problems from the top down. Would anyone be surprised if some local bureaucrats were juicing the numbers to get more funding? Like Ukraine, many men worried about conscription have fled the country. I read southeast Asia is a popular destination? Who knows.
 

Irish#1

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Of course they have desertions, conditions are brutal and the war has been dragging on for years. They are running out of people who are willing or able to fight.

Now do Russia.
This is probably the biggest contributor IMO.
 

PerthDomer

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They have some number of young men between 18-25 it seems. You'd be hard pressed to find a more able group in a population suited to fight. I get that Europeans have a severe crunch in their demographics, but refusing to draft young men looks weird.

I'm curious how many people either country have available. I have zero special expertise in either of the following, just going on "gut" here.

1) I don't really trust either one of them to be accurate about their losses. The "official numbers" are just absurd on their face. I get that countries are reluctant to share information about casualties, but they'd be better off just not saying anything if that's the case.

2) I also don't trust either to be honest about their population as a whole. I see claims from the UN that Ukraine is a country of 41 million people, but that includes areas under Russian control. The IMF says the population is 33 million. Reuters reports it's around 28 million. Im not sure if that is including refugees or not. Ukraine hasn't had a census in over 20 years.

The UN says there are about 4 million refugees in Poland, Russia, and Germany alone. Another 500k in Chechia. Who knows if that has grown or shrank but it seems reasonable that the number fluctuates as some leave or return.

Russia's claimed population is 147 million per a 2021 census. But it's also a giant country with remote populations and serial corruption problems from the top down. Would anyone be surprised if some local bureaucrats were juicing the numbers to get more funding? Like Ukraine, many men worried about conscription have fled the country. I read southeast Asia is a popular destination? Who knows.

From what I've read that age group is among the smallest demographics in Ukraine. They're worried they won't have a country in 40 years if enough of them die.
 

ab2cmiller

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From what I've read that age group is among the smallest demographics in Ukraine. They're worried they won't have a country in 40 years if enough of them die.
You would think that this should be part of the "calculation" for Zelensky.
 
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