Rioting in St Louis

[ickythump1225]

'Tosh.0' Production Assistant Mistakenly Shot and Killed by LA Sheriff Deputy - TheWrap

Read this story, and then imagine the production assistant was black.

People right now just go "wow, dumb cop, what a tragedy."

If all facts were the exact same and the production assistant was black, imagine the outcry from these everything-is-about-race people. It'd be all "oh the cop showed up and ASSUMED that the BLACK man was the criminal! Racism!"

That's what bothers me so much. Stats show there were MANY more white people gunned down last year by cops than black people. I don't know what the numbers look like precisely when you adjust for %s, but in terms of raw incidents that could make the news the number is much greater. The question should be why are so many PEOPLE getting gunned down by cops and why are cops generally not held accountable?

But there are a lot of insulated and ignorant people with a warped set of facts who are never going to get it. And that makes me sad.

Why wasn't the Tosh assistant wearing his government issued "White Privilege shield" that wards off all bullets, diseases, viruses, cancers, etc so no white person ever has to suffer. It's in the standard issue "White Privilege" pack that comes with our $1,000,000 in gold from Fort Knox, get out of jail free cards, acceptance letters from every Ivy League school, and a job offer as CEO of the Fortune 500 company of our choosing. Bottom line always wear your privilege shield and remember suffering is only for minorities, all white people are rich and powerful.

 

[GATTACA!]

Please explain to me what is so outrageous about what I said. Regardless of my opinion on what they are protesting for, I think they are going about this the complete wrong way. And I think it's naive to believe that the only way to get any attention to your cause is to burn down businesses and endanger unrelated third parties, like random people on an interstate. Sorry if that offended you?

No sorry i was trying to make a funny. I completely agreed with your post and it made perfect logical sense, that why some in this thread ignored it. I wasn't insinuating that i was going to ignore it but that others where going to ignore it. Sorry i didn't make that more clear lol.

 

[IrishinSyria]

'Tosh.0' Production Assistant Mistakenly Shot and Killed by LA Sheriff Deputy - TheWrap

Read this story, and then imagine the production assistant was black.

People right now just go "wow, dumb cop, what a tragedy."

If all facts were the exact same and the production assistant was black, imagine the outcry from these everything-is-about-race people. It'd be all "oh the cop showed up and ASSUMED that the BLACK man was the criminal! Racism!"

That's what bothers me so much. Stats show there were MANY more white people gunned down last year by cops than black people. I don't know what the numbers look like precisely when you adjust for %s, but in terms of raw incidents that could make the news the number is much greater. The question should be why are so many PEOPLE getting gunned down by cops and why are cops generally not held accountable?

But there are a lot of insulated and ignorant people with a warped set of facts who are never going to get it. And that makes me sad.

a) I think you're wrong about the stats... this article, at least, seems to directly contradict what you said.

b) I think that, to a large extent, the movement is about questioning police behavior in general. Obviously, there are some outliers, but a good % of the commentary out there is about the militarization of our police in general, and not just in black communities. Definitely not saying this is 100%, there's plenty of folk who are upset about the racial aspect of this case.

c) My reading of your link was that it was an even more understandable killing than the Fergusson or NYC killings. The police were responding to reports of a knife wielding torture psycho and they saw a guy lunging at another guy who had just been stabbed. In all of the other situations, there was at least the potential for police to de-escalate the situation. The way the article describes this one, they were responding to an ongoing emergency and any delay that normally would be warranted could have cost lives.

 

[MPClinton22]

No sorry i was trying to make a funny. I completely agreed with your post and it made perfect logical sense, that why some in this thread ignored it. I wasn't insinuating that i was going to ignore it but that others where going to ignore it. Sorry i didn't make that more clear lol.

Ok definitely misunderstood that, my bad. I was really confused, but it's all good! I expected NJNP to irrationally call me out on something, so I was surprised when I thought someone else had (although he never actually responds to people so that would be out of character)!

And I think your insinuation was correct!

 

[calvegas04]

You would think Eric Garner would have known how to be arrested without putting up a fight, after all he has been arrested more than 30 times before.

 

[BobD]

 

[Nick Setta]

You would think Eric Garner would have known how to be arrested without putting up a fight, after all he has been arrested more than 30 times before.

Still shouldn't be killed. Seriously that is too much give him a long sentence for resisting arrest. Police violence is too much.

 

[kmoose]

Still shouldn't be killed. Seriously that is too much give him a long sentence for resisting arrest. Police violence is too much.

Stop acting like the cop intended to kill him. He was put in a chokehold for resisting arrest. I don't think the cop ever intended the chokehold to be fatal.

 

[Nick Setta]

Stop acting like the cop intended to kill him. He was put in a chokehold for resisting arrest. I don't think the cop ever intended the chokehold to be fatal.

I agree but you can't also use a choke hold and its banned by the NYPD.

 

[NDRock]

What was Garner going to be charged with since they were arresting him? Was it the cigerette thing? Is that normal to be arrested for that or is it usually a ticket? Honestly don't know the answer to these questions.

 

[Grahambo]

What was Garner going to be charged with since they were arresting him? Was it the cigerette thing? Is that normal to be arrested for that or is it usually a ticket? Honestly don't know the answer to these questions.

Selling untaxed cigarettes. Cops were called there by the business owners. Depends on the city but some cities you can issue a citation for a misd arrest, others you have to actually arrest like we had to do.

 

[Bluto]

Can you explain to me what that means? Who or what is vigorously trying to destroy the black family?

Mostly because American business and legal institutions aren't dominated primarily with Asian men. Pointing to Asian immigrant success, or Irish or Italian immigrant success (I am Italian/Irish 4th generation fwiw) ignores the fact that the American experience has been fundamentally different for blacks than it has been for people with other ethnic backgrounds. I am not and am not interested in making excuses for any individual instances of bad behavior by anyone, but in the macro it is a intellectually dishonest to dismiss the long history of relations between blacks and whites in this country and the effects that have carried into the present day related to socioeconomic opportunities and access to the power structure in this country. Anecdotal examples of individual successes don't detract from that narrative, either, because supremely talented people will always be able to rise in just about any circumstance. But everyone can't be supremely talented. How many idiots do you know that continue to fail upwards because their daddy is important or has undepletable resources? And how many of those are white versus those that are black?.

So, Rhode Irish posted this in the white privilege thread. It touches on some of what I was alluding to earlier. What has been acting to destroy the cultural institution of the Black family is as follows. It's not so much a who or what as much as it is a process that has been set in motion by events from the past.

First you have 2 centuries of unchecked violence and open discrimination which served to destroy black cultural institutions such as the family and various black communities throughout time that were models for Black success. It should be clear how this would undermine familial ties and the institution of the family so I'll fast forward.

Post civil rights act you are left with a Black community which now has the right to vote and the ability to fully participate in the political process it still however, encounters open and blatant discrimination as well as institutionalized barriers (the results of the last two centuries of openly racist policies) to resources that might serve to strengthen the institution of the black family, in this case the father figure of the Black male. Some examples would include access to wealth, education and gainful employment. At the same time Black males still face institutional policies that disproportionally effect them, serve to undermine familial ties and further limit access to resources such as employement and wealth (incarceration being a clear example). As this process of limited access to resources and disproportionate application of institutional policies (incarceration) continues it creates a feedback loop that continuously serves to marginalize Black males and therefore continues to undermine the cultural institution of the black family.

 

[NDRock]

Selling untaxed cigarettes. Cops were called there by the business owners. Depends on the city but some cities you can issue a citation for a misd arrest, others you have to actually arrest like we had to do.

Thank you.

 

[IrishLax]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>.<a href="https://twitter.com/ndwbb">@NDwbb</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TakeAStaND?src=hash">#TakeAStaND</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ICantBreathe?src=hash">#ICantBreathe</a> <a href="http://t.co/HSa4p82HPx">pic.twitter.com/HSa4p82HPx</a></p>— The Fighting Irish (@FightingIrish) <a href="https://twitter.com/FightingIrish/status/543824186893152256">December 13, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishinSyria]

I agree but you can't also use a choke hold and its banned by the NYPD.

The legal significance on the NYPD's ban on chokeholds is an interesting question. Does it mean using a chokehold is per se criminal? Absolutely not. Is it persuasive evidence that the cop was negligent or reckless in the amount of force he used? Maybe. Is it grounds for administrative action? Absolutely. And they did, in fact, take administrative action against the guy. Is that a satisfying outcome for people who want to see Justice served? Probably not, but it's important that we don't confuse criminal behavior with workplace guidelines.

 

[ickythump1225]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>.<a href="https://twitter.com/ndwbb">@NDwbb</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TakeAStaND?src=hash">#TakeAStaND</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ICantBreathe?src=hash">#ICantBreathe</a> <a href="http://t.co/HSa4p82HPx">pic.twitter.com/HSa4p82HPx</a></p>— The Fighting Irish (@FightingIrish) <a href="https://twitter.com/FightingIrish/status/543824186893152256">December 13, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Where are the "Don't Break the Law!" t-shirts? Seriously all of these athletes deciding to "take a staND" over the Michael Brown and Eric Garner issues is becoming annoying. And how they are "taking a staND"? By wearing some silly shirt? I feel like this is closer to attention w**ring than to concrete action. Slacktivism.

 

[kmoose]

Where are the "Don't Break the Law!" t-shirts. Seriously all of these athletes deciding to "take a staND" over the Michael Brown and Eric Garner issues is becoming annoying. And how they are "taking a staND"? By wearing some silly shirt? I feel like this is closer to attention w**ring than to concrete action. Slacktivism.

If it spurs earnest conversation about the use of force by the police, then there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[IrishLax]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V-ZaFmdB13A?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[IrishinSyria]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V-ZaFmdB13A?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's freaking awesome. Somebody get Coach McGraw spun up on the x's and o's of football, I think she has the right attitude to coach any Notre Dame team. "It's not just about basketball, basketball's just a game. And the thing that it teaches you is about life."

 

[irisheyes]

Im not a big fan of ND taking a side in this. What if a player had the opposite opinion and didnt wear the shirt out? Could cause a rift in the team.

 

[irishff1014]

Im not a big fan of ND taking a side in this. What if a player had the opposite opinion and didnt wear the shirt out? Could cause a rift in the team.

I agree. If I was the AD she would be in my office in the morning.

 

[ickythump1225]

If it spurs earnest conversation about the use of force by the police, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Sports is a form of escapism. I'm tired of all of these left wing social justice movements injecting their political commentary into sporting events. There is a time and place for that stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n3WgiMftaU

 

[dshans]

Sports is a form of escapism. I'm tired of all of these left wing social justice movements injecting their political commentary into sporting events.

So "Fly Overs," extravagant ROTC facilities, etc. play no "political" role in sports?

I'm one of those "assholes" who remains seated when the National Anthem is played.

It's a form of political commentary.



Uber Alles!

 

[BGIF]

Some Ferguson witnesses weren't credible - CNN.com

One challenge for Ferguson grand jury: Some witnesses' credibility
By Josh Levs, CNN
updated 7:03 AM EST, Sun December 14, 2014

(CNN) -- The grand jury in the case of Michael Brown's shooting didn't just face an onslaught of witnesses with conflicting memories of what happened the day white police officer Darren Wilson killed Brown, an unarmed black teenager. It also heard from witnesses who couldn't be believed at all.
Some admitted lying. Others changed their stories under questioning. Prosecutors were so skeptical of one woman's account that they asked whether she might have dreamed about seeing the confrontation in Ferguson, Missouri, on August 9.
Most of the dozens of witnesses who testified likely did their best to describe what they saw, but a review of thousands of pages of grand jury documents shows that untrustworthy testimony came from some witnesses on both sides.

...

Process, not necessarily result, is in question

Still, Toobin says, the evidence shows that a conviction would have been very unlikely had the case gone to trial.
"Given the evidence that came out, I think the exoneration may well be justified. But I don't think the process inspires a lot of confidence."

 

[ginman]

So "Fly Overs," extravagant ROTC facilities, etc. play no "political" role in sports?

I'm one of those "assholes" who remains seated when the National Anthem is played.

It's a form of political commentary.



Uber Alles!

And I support the millions of men and women who have sacrificed so much for this country so that you could assert your political opinion so eloquently!

 

[Cackalacky]

Some Ferguson witnesses weren't credible - CNN.com

One challenge for Ferguson grand jury: Some witnesses' credibility
By Josh Levs, CNN
updated 7:03 AM EST, Sun December 14, 2014

This by far where I get hung up at. The Grand Jury is not supposed to decide the validity of the evidence. That occurs in the trial where the evidence entered can be provided and sorted through for reliability. The death of an unarmed person by a police officer is enough to indict. Simple. Go to trial and debate the evidence. Its likely he would have gotten off but its also more likely the evidence would have been significantly more investigated and Wilson would have been cross examined instead of been given an unopposed platform.

 

[Corry]

This by far where I get hung up at. The Grand Jury is not supposed to decide the validity of the evidence. That occurs in the trial where the evidence entered can be provided and sorted through for reliability. The death of an unarmed person by a police officer is enough to indict. Simple. Go to trial and debate the evidence. Its likely he would have gotten off but its also more likely the evidence would have been significantly more investigated and Wilson would have been cross examined instead of been given an unopposed platform.

I don't think he would have taken the stand in a trail.

 

[kmoose]

This by far where I get hung up at. The Grand Jury is not supposed to decide the validity of the evidence. That occurs in the trial where the evidence entered can be provided and sorted through for reliability. The death of an unarmed person by a police officer is enough to indict. Simple. Go to trial and debate the evidence. Its likely he would have gotten off but its also more likely the evidence would have been significantly more investigated and Wilson would have been cross examined instead of been given an unopposed platform.

You do realize that there are certain jobs out there that ANY indictment will automatically disqualify you for?

 

[Grahambo]

You do realize that there are certain jobs out there that ANY indictment will automatically disqualify you for?

What's more is you can't indict just to indict to appease the masses. Cops do get indicted, people can Google that. Enough with this unarmed person narrative which makes him appear innocent.

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good story though.

 

[Cackalacky]

What's more is you can't indict just to indict to appease the masses. Cops do get indicted, people can Google that. Enough with this unarmed person narrative which makes him appear innocent.

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good story though.

What are the facts? Nothing has been determined as a fact yet. I did not say he was innocent of robbing the store but that is not why Wilson stopped him. I did not say he was innocent of other things but was Wilson innocent in shooting him from 35 feet away? An indictment does not appease the masses. We will never know the FACTS because one person is dead and can't defend himself.