Rioting in St Louis

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kmoose

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He died of cardiac arrest, not from the "illegal restraint."

To be fair.... the coroner did rule it a homicide. But the coroner also ruled that asthma and heart disease were contributing factors. So maybe that means that the effects of the hold that the cops used would not have been lethal in an otherwise healthy person? I don't know.
 

kmoose

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1506894_860172447368976_8183305456591647204_n.jpg

That is photoshopped, isn't it? I hope.
 

ulukinatme

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That is photoshopped, isn't it? I hope.

i don't think so, but here's some more stupid for you just in case:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sL5iqph_KRQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[EDIT] Ok, Snopes says the picture was Photoshopped. However, the original photo is somewhat stupid as well, and I can see why they 'shopped it based on what we know now. Mother's wouldn't have to fear for their sons if their sons weren't robbing stores.
 
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GoIrish41

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Racism exists. So does claims of racism that really aren't racist at all. So does racism toward whites. Probably the largest segment of society today that is openly discriminated against is the white, heterosexual male. Why? Because we have a liberal media and a liberal section of our society that tries to tell us that if we don't think like them, accept the things they accept, agree on hot button social topics such as gay marriage, then we are racist, elitist, pigs.

It appears liberals are very happy and very inclusive... when everyone thinks, believes, and acts like them. If not, then we hear all the claims that have reared their ugly head in this case.

I don't know Tommy, I don't know how you can type with a straight face that the poor oppressed straight, white man is taking it on the chin, when he controls the vast majority of the nation's political power and wealth -- including that liberal media I hear so much about. That "liberal" section of our society is also more than 50 percent of the nation and growing and those of us who fall in the liberal segment who also happen to be straight white men don't have to tell anyone anything about what you think. The beauty is that you do it yourselves. To use your example, it is OK if you disagree on gay marriage -- just don't be shocked or offended if the growing political majority finds your believes backward and hateful. You are entitled to your believes and they theirs. And the same is true about race. The more people defend the actions of cops who kill black men (for whatever reason -- right or not, reasonable or not) you are taking the chance that you are going to irritate the other side and have them make judgements about you and your motivations for thinking that way. Afterall, they've been hearing the same tired bullshit for a long time and nothing every really seems to change. That doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative, democrat or republican, left or right -- that is just the world we live in. And the consistent bickering (on both sides) and refusal to listen to the other side's point of view without lashing out at it is the reason. So we can't both live in a world where politicians seek to embareass and humiliate the black president, make sure he gets nothing accomplished and then bash him for being a do-nothing and at the same time complain because people assign motivations to that behavior. It is a learned response every bit as much as demonizing the people who complain too much that they are being put upon.
 
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wizards8507

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I don't know Tommy, I don't know how you can type with a straight face that the poor oppressed straight, white man is taking it on the chin, when he controls the vast majority of the nation's political power and wealth -- including that liberal media I hear so much about.
You're viewing people as groups, not as individuals. There's no such thing as "THE straight, white man." Obviously, John Kerry and Rush Limbaugh have substantial power and wealth, but the factory worker in Muncie, Indiana is neither John Kerry nor Rush Limbaugh. That guy doesn't control a damn thing, just like any poor black man from any place.
 

GoIrish41

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You're viewing people as groups, not as individuals. There's no such thing as "THE straight, white man." Obviously, John Kerry and Rush Limbaugh have substantial power and wealth, but the factory worker in Muncie, Indiana is neither John Kerry nor Rush Limbaugh. That guy doesn't control a damn thing, just like any poor black man from any place.

We are talking about racism aren't we? Yes, I'm referring to people as groups because that is the topic at hand. I suppose the larger point is that not only do white people control the wealth and power, but they also control access to it. They control the banks, the businesses, the free market economy and most all of the institutions of this country. But don't pin the individuals vs. groups on me. Talk to Tommy about what he meant when he said that straight, white men were the group most discriminated against. Hard to understand where that logic stands up to common sense, but much easier to understand how that mentality would infuriate people who are truely held down in our society.
 

ulukinatme

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Racism exists. So does claims of racism that really aren't racist at all. So does racism toward whites. Probably the largest segment of society today that is openly discriminated against is the white, heterosexual male. Why? Because we have a liberal media and a liberal section of our society that tries to tell us that if we don't think like them, accept the things they accept, agree on hot button social topics such as gay marriage, then we are racist, elitist, pigs.

It appears liberals are very happy and very inclusive... when everyone thinks, believes, and acts like them. If not, then we hear all the claims that have reared their ugly head in this case.

I've got to agree with this when it comes to "offensive comments." I understand that white men typically control a great deal of the free world, but when did it become okay to discriminate against them? Everything is incredibly PC these days, you have to be so careful in what you say so you don't offend a particular group (Despite the fact that occasionally the people that are "offended" are liberals and not the groups themselves). The same isn't true when it comes to Caucasian males. Apparently we're not allowed to be offended if someone says something that would be considered offensive if the same sentence was uttered against a minority.

Am I offended when I see a comment that's derogatory towards someone of my color? No, not really, but if people want to push a PC agenda lets be consistent across the board. You see the same attitude in religion today. It's alright to say disparaging things about Christians (And probably most specifically Catholics), or make political cartoons that satire them, etc, but it's offensive to say certain things about any other religion it seems. I'm fine if people want to push their PC agenda here, consistency across the board is all I'm saying. I find it offensive that only the groups I belong to have to eat offensive comments and ridicule.
 

calvegas04

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And here read this

Rookie Jersey City Cop Melvin Santiago Killed During Armed Robbery

You'll be thrilled to know that the bloods put a hit out on all cops bc they killed him. His trash bag wife said on the channell 10 news that she wishes her husband would've killed more cops.

Go tell Melvin's mom that you can relate to why this poor kid was killed
This is sad, this is what should really be on the news. But sadly the news doesn't think this will give them ratings
 

Wild Bill

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I don't know Tommy, I don't know how you can type with a straight face that the poor oppressed straight, white man is taking it on the chin, when he controls the vast majority of the nation's political power and wealth -- including that liberal media I hear so much about. That "liberal" section of our society is also more than 50 percent of the nation and growing and those of us who fall in the liberal segment who also happen to be straight white men don't have to tell anyone anything about what you think. The beauty is that you do it yourselves. To use your example, it is OK if you disagree on gay marriage -- just don't be shocked or offended if the growing political majority finds your believes backward and hateful. You are entitled to your believes and they theirs. And the same is true about race. The more people defend the actions of cops who kill black men (for whatever reason -- right or not, reasonable or not) you are taking the chance that you are going to irritate the other side and have them make judgements about you and your motivations for thinking that way. That doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative, democrat or republican, left or right -- that is just the world we live in. And the consistent bickering (on both sides) and refusal to listen to the other side's point of view without lashing out at it is the reason. So we can't both live in a world where politicians seek to embareass and humiliate the black president, make sure he gets nothing accomplished and then bash him for being a do-nothing and at the same time complain because people assign motivations to that behavior in a world in which it has never been seen before.

There it is. Right or not, reasonable or not, really is not significant, huh? Just make sure you don't say anything, even if it is the truth. And if you do...you're a racist.

It's not a big fucking mystery why whites are apathetic about this issue or any other race issue in this country. There are only two positions you can take at this moment - agree with nonsense or be pegged a racist. No thanks. I'll just keep to myself and let the geniuses in DC and the race hustlers figure it out.
 

GoIrish41

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There it is. Right or not, reasonable or not, really is not significant, huh? Just make sure you don't say anything, even if it is the truth. And if you do...you're a racist.

It's not a big fucking mystery why whites are apathetic about this issue or any other race issue in this country. There are only two positions you can take at this moment - agree with nonsense or be pegged a racist. No thanks. I'll just keep to myself and let the geniuses in DC and the race hustlers figure it out.

#1 your first paragraph is making the same point I was making. After so much time goes by with bad things happening and it falling on deaf ears, everything just becomes "just one more example," even if it is not. I suspect that there is more than a little truth and deceipt to be found on both sides of the issue.

#2 your second paragraph is describing the apathy I spoke about earlier. There are many more than two positions you can take if you are committed to having a civil discussion about the issue that includes really trying to understand where the other side is coming from. It is not an easy or comfortable discussion to have, but it is high time that we have it in this country.
 

GoIrish41

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I've got to agree with this when it comes to "offensive comments." I understand that white men typically control a great deal of the free world, but when did it become okay to discriminate against them? Everything is incredibly PC these days, you have to be so careful in what you say so you don't offend a particular group (Despite the fact that occasionally the people that are "offended" are liberals and not the groups themselves). The same isn't true when it comes to Caucasian males. Apparently we're not allowed to be offended if someone says something that would be considered offensive if the same sentence was uttered against a minority.

Am I offended when I see a comment that's derogatory towards someone of my color? No, not really, but if people want to push a PC agenda lets be consistent across the board. You see the same attitude in religion today. It's alright to say disparaging things about Christians (And probably most specifically Catholics), or make political cartoons that satire them, etc, but it's offensive to say certain things about any other religion it seems. I'm fine if people want to push their PC agenda here, consistency across the board is all I'm saying. I find it offensive that only the groups I belong to have to eat offensive comments and ridicule.

When did it become OK to discriminate against ANYONE? Blacks have been and continue to be discriminated against in the job market, in public schools, in the judicial system, and almost every other facet of society. I'm a white male just like you and Tommy, but I don't think we are even beginning to approach the type of discrimination that the average black person in the inner city has to suck up every single day. We can be offended if we choose to be, but we should not expect any more responsiveness to our reaction than the average person living in Harlem or Watts receive to theirs. So if we are going for equity, we should absolutely all seek to communicate in such a way that does not offend (although you'll find a butt load of guys on here who will say that is just complete bullshit). That is a tiny sliver of part of the overall problem though. We should seek to understand where the other side is coming from ... that requres a national conversation, in which, more than likely, some feelings are going to get hurt before any progress is made.
 
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Name one way that's not "affirmative action" in which white, Christian, heterosexual males have been discriminated against other than "mean comments" on the Internet.
 
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Also the restraint used was forbidden by the NYPD handbook and I doubt any training would tell anyone to use a chokehold. When I was trained to be a security guard that was something that was absolutely stressed to us.
 
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At least now cops know they can be caught on video choking a man to death, have it ruled a homicide, and then not even face trial. What a world we live in.
 
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City paid out $30K to settle 2012 lawsuit against chokehold cop Daniel Pantaleo | SILive.com

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- One of the two civil rights lawsuits against Daniel Pantaleo, the NYPD officer who put Eric Garner in a chokehold Thursday, ended up costing taxpayers $30,000 in settlement money, according to the plaintiffs' attorney.

The suit, which was settled in January, accuses Pantaleo and another officer of strip-searching two men on a New Brighton street, pulling down their pants and underwear in broad daylight, in March 2012.

It alleges that Pantaleo and several other officers -- Joseph Torres, Ignazio Conca, and Steven Lopez -- "unlawfully stopped" a vehicle on Jersey Street in New Brighton. Another officer, Christian Cataldo, arrived at the scene later.

Two of the car's passengers, Darren Collins and Tommy Rice -- a federally convicted gun felon who had been released from prison five months prior -- wound up suing in Brooklyn federal court.

According to the lawsuit, after getting license and registration information from both the car's driver, Morris Wilson, and Collins, the officers ordered Collins and Rice out of the vehicle for a search.

After they were handcuffed, "Pantaleo and/or Conca pulled down the plaintiffs' pants and underwear, and touched and searched their genital areas, or stood by while this was done in their presence," the lawsuit alleged.

Pantaleo then took the two men to the 120th Precinct stationhouse, where Pantaleo and Torres strip-searched them again, forcing them "to remove all of their clothing, squat, cough and lift their genitals."

Both men were criminally charged, but the cases against them were ultimately dismissed.

According to Jason Leventhal, Collins and Rice's lawyer, Pantaleo had falsely claimed that he saw crack and heroin in plain view, on the vehicle's back seat, allowing the officers to arrest everyone in the car. Wilson admitted the drugs were in his pocket, not in plain view, when he ultimately took a plea deal, Leventhal said.

Collins and Rice each received $15,000 settlements from the city, Leventhal said.

"One of the fundamental, most important things a police officer needs to do is to tell the truth," Leventhal said. "He has no right to strip-search anyone in the middle of the street."

SECOND CASE STILL PENDING

The second lawsuit against Pantaleo is still open - filed by Rylawn Walker in Manhattan federal court this past February.

Walker accuses Pantaleo of arresting him on Feb. 16, 2012 even though he was "committing no crime at that time and was not acting in a suspicious manner."

The lawsuit doesn't specify the circumstances of the arrest, but alleges that Pantaleo "misrepresented facts in the police reports and other documents that the plaintiff had committed offenses when in fact this was not true."

Walker was charged with marijuana-related offenses, and the case against him was dismissed and sealed in criminal court a day later, the lawsuit alleges.

CAUGHT ON VIDEO

On Thursday, Pantaleo was caught on video placing Eric Garner, 43, in a chokehold as he tried to arrest the tall, heavyset man on charges of selling untaxed cigarettes.

Garner can be heard in the video repeatedly gasping, "I can't breathe! I can't breathe!" He was pronounced dead shortly after at Richmond University Medical Center, West Brighton.

Leventhal, who regularly handles civil rights cases lodged against the NYPD, said that based on the Garner video, Pantaleo ignored a "life-or-death rule of the NYPD patrol guide" prohibiting chokeholds, and ignored the department's use-of-force continuum.

"You don't just immediately jump on the guy's neck and choke him," Leventhal said. "I think it's a depraved indifference to human life to choke him like that."

The NYPD prohibits the use of chokeholds. Legal experts told the Advance the officer may well face departmental disciplinary charges over the incident, though it's not yet clear if he'll be criminally charged, or, ultimately convicted.
 

GoIrish41

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Name one way that's not "affirmative action" in which white, Christian, heterosexual males have been discriminated against other than "mean comments" on the Internet.

Haven't we been through enough? Now we have to put up with mean comments? Is there no mercy?
 

IrishLax

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Also the restraint used was forbidden by the NYPD handbook and I doubt any training would tell anyone to use a chokehold. When I was trained to be a security guard that was something that was absolutely stressed to us.

I mean... this is the NYPD we're talking about...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7rWtDMPaRD8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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I mean... this is the NYPD we're talking about...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7rWtDMPaRD8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stop and frisk is the most racist shit. What a surprise that more than half the people who "look suspicious" are black. That is institutionalized racism.
 
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They waited 7 minutes to perform CPR on seven minutes. This is a huge failing, even for our broken justice system.
 
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