Regarding Today's Accident

[mgriff]

I find his remarks on the exceptional nature of the gusts to be disingenuous. It was a very windy last few days in South Bend and the county in which campus is located was put on tornado warning just the day before. In fact, yesterday afternoon before the accident, a professor I work for was stranded in Chicago because they wouldn't fly out to South Bend with the wind the way it was.

I have to agree, but it makes perfect sense--damage control. It's pretty apparent to everyone that there is no way the young man should have been up there. I would have to assume it's a question of the University placing blame on Kelly, or if it falls on someone else. Ultimately, it does fall on BK, but it certainly depends on his level of involvement and the decisions that were made. Someone is in a lot of trouble, and rightfully so, but they just don't know on who's head it will fall. That's what it seems like to me.

 

[SoDakDomer]

I hope whoever is resposible for this is held accountable, however i could see some poor soul being the fallguy for this...

 

[irishff1014]

I would have to say that the football program is responseable considering they were taping the practice.

 

[Colts baby!]

I don't know what time Swarbrick was at practice yesterday, but the winds yesterday afternoon were ferocious. They were sustained at 40 mph and gusting to over 50 mph. I was home in South Bend and was just amazed at how strong the winds were. When I heard this tragic news, I was dumbfounded that anyone would be allowed to be up 50' on a a scissor lift. My prayers and thoughts go out to Declan's family. The Notre Dame family has lost one of its own.

 

[irishff1014]

I think any one from indiana to the east coast had winds blowing there *** off

 

[Old Man Mike]

Someone has responsibility for this lack of "safety first consciousness". It almost certainly is NOT Kelly. Every major sports team at a University has a "Director of x_______ Operations" [in football nicknamed the DOFO] whose job it is to deal with all these non-football matters. If someone was sleeping on the job, it was someone within that officer's purview [unless ND does this differently than every other school I know.] The DOFO exists because the Head Coach nor any of the assistant coaches cannot be expected to understand equipment characteristics, any more than they do airplane reservations or organizing meals. Someone has been a major screw-up here and probably should be fired, but it is not the coaching staff. And that someone will not be some little fall-guy, as the DOFO, or chief of grounds and equipment, or whomever has that responsibility, is a major job. And yes, the University should do all they can to make things up---but there is no "price tag" on a life. What a nightmare....

 

[NDOM]

This is a terrible thing for sure. but who gets up on a scissor lift that high in the air when there are 50 mph sustained winds. Thats just asking for trouble.

 

[fitz_bu47]

I was just reading the message boards on Rivals and it really makes me worry about our country. People over there are talking A LOT about how Kelly should be fired, and who is gonna replace him, etc., but hardly at all about the kid. This was a horrific tragedy, and the Sullivan family will never be the same, that is where the focus should be (and I think is on here, and obviously in South Bend.) but internet tough guys are more concerned on making sure that ND's coach is fired, and they pay out the ***, etc. I realize there were mistakes made, and those who made them will also, never be the same, and no amount of money, or anyone losing their job will help with that. I know it's the state of our country right now to immediately think, "Who Can we blame?!?!?" and "How much money willl they get?", it just makes me sad. God bless the young man and his family, and please help our country b/c we have a lot of issues......Sorry guys, can't post stuff like this on Rivals, just here.

 

[dskoo65]

We also need to know the safety warnings of the lift from the manufacturer, how those are distributed to purchasers, and whether the lift had been in any other accidents at ND. (And if so, whether the individuals in charge of practice should have known about them).

.

Conduct that falls below the standards of behavior established by law for the protection of others against unreasonable risk of harm. A person has acted negligently if he or she has departed from the conduct expected of a reasonably prudent person acting under similar circumstances

i think a "reasonably prudent" person would not need anyone to inform them that it is highly dangerous to have a human being in a 40 foot lift on a day where wind warnings were in effect and, in fact, there were sustained high winds with even higher wind gusts.

there may be legal action against the university simply because nobody was proactive in making sure he didnt go up on that day.

if someone actually told him to go up there, losing their job should be just the beginning of it, as that would be gross negligence, imo.

...and swarbricks statement about the wind has very little credibility. i was in South Bend that afternoon and i can assure anyone that the wind warning was in effect for a reason.

i would like to add that my first thoughts are with the family, but that does not prevent me from being angry about the this tragedy being completely preventable and wanting someone to be accountable. the two ideas are not mutually exclusive. there may be people who have an agenda against the head coach, but unless he was responsible for putting this young man in harms way, its not really about him.

 

[irishff1014]

In reference to fitz bu47 this country is all about getting rich and doing nothing for it. It is always sue first. But No matter if it was 100 million or 1 million you stil have lost your child,brother. What does that money mean it isn't going to bring him back. I feel horible for the young guys family. And i understand they are upset and will be for a long time.

 

[fitz_bu47]

I hear ya man, it's just sad. Don't get me wrong though, if someone was negligent than his family should be compensated, I just thought it was sad on Rivals that the focus was on that and tearing down ND more than lifting up the young man..............I just can't believe that it happened, not talking trash on Declan here at all, but does anyone else think it odd that he would tweet those things but not ask someone to lower him down, or lower himself down if that is how the machine works? I just can't believe that no one, Declan included, didn't say this is crazy we gotta get him down.....I guess it goes back to the old "invincible" thing, I know on more than one occasion I have been very lucky when I put myself in a bad situation because "that won't happen to me", I wish Declan had been as lucky.

 

[irishff1014]

It is truly sad.Someone one new that it was not safe for them to be in the air. I don't care who you are use some common sense thats like you don't go in the ocean with a 12ft jon boat in the middle of a hurricane just doesn't make sense.

 

[maison bleu]

I have to agree, but it makes perfect sense--damage control.

IMO, "damage control" is just a euphemism for lying....

 

[Rack Em]

Hey guys I know the legal issues surrounding this situation are very visible. But let the media take care of the unimportant aspects of this accident. This thread wasn't started to point fingers or establish blame.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that a Notre Dame student passed away. At the heart of this firestorm is a person. Take away from this incident that life is precious. Tell the people in your lives that you care about them and that you love them. Life is too short to not state such feelings.

 

[mgriff]

Can we switch out all the posts dealing with legal ramifications to their own thread then, to appease Rack Em? Mods?

 

[IrishLax]

Someone has responsibility for this lack of "safety first consciousness". It almost certainly is NOT Kelly. Every major sports team at a University has a "Director of x_______ Operations" [in football nicknamed the DOFO] whose job it is to deal with all these non-football matters. If someone was sleeping on the job, it was someone within that officer's purview [unless ND does this differently than every other school I know.] The DOFO exists because the Head Coach nor any of the assistant coaches cannot be expected to understand equipment characteristics, any more than they do airplane reservations or organizing meals. Someone has been a major screw-up here and probably should be fired, but it is not the coaching staff. And that someone will not be some little fall-guy, as the DOFO, or chief of grounds and equipment, or whomever has that responsibility, is a major job. And yes, the University should do all they can to make things up---but there is no "price tag" on a life. What a nightmare....

This is a very accurate post. People blaming this on Kelly are ignorant. It is a tragedy that he had practically no control over... even in the minor sports they have people like OMM mentioned in charge of all of this stuff making sure everything runs smoothly and safely behind the scenes.

Without a doubt this is some admins fault because you cannot expect a 20 year old kid to refuse to work because he is scared. That is not how young males operate. It was the responsibility of whoever was in charge of filming to know the limits on wind forces that the lift could sustain and make sure it was not used if it exceeded those limits. They did not do that and a kid paid the ultimate price.

 

[IrishinSyria]

This is a very accurate post. People blaming this on Kelly are ignorant. It is a tragedy that he had practically no control over... even in the minor sports they have people like OMM mentioned in charge of all of this stuff making sure everything runs smoothly and safely behind the scenes.

Without a doubt this is some admins fault because you cannot expect a 20 year old kid to refuse to work because he is scared. That is not how young males operate. It was the responsibility of whoever was in charge of filming to know the limits on wind forces that the lift could sustain and make sure it was not used if it exceeded those limits. They did not do that and a kid paid the ultimate price.

IrishLax and OMM, agree with everything you say. From the grounds crew who maintains the equipment, to whatever admin manages the managers, to the full-scholarship head football manager, there are many people who are in-between Kelly and this decision. However, I also believe in the Mack Brown theory of coaching: a coach is responsible for his entire program, from the water-boys to the players.

I have no doubt that this issue never came to Kelly's attention. My gut tells me that the victim is the only one who realized that there was any danger at all, and that he decided to "tough it out." However, this is Kelly's program and to some degree...he is responsible.

 

[IrishLax]

Interesting article from ESPN. Couple key points:

-There is a huge grey area on safety protocol and standards.
-This is the kind of thing that someone in Kelly's position both probably gives very little thought to and has very little expertise on.
-It seems like there is a lot of information left to be gathered before anyone will have a sound conclusion on why this happened. There are just so many variables.

Football video tower usage policies and procedures vary from team to team - ESPN

 

[Mavericknyc1980]

This is a tragic story. He is in a better place now. My thoughts and prayers for the Sullivan family.

 

[jonesman]

Time to stop the speculation and allow the investigation to take its course. It is now time for us to honor this young student and show support for his family.

My condolences. May God be with you.

 

[Jason Pham]

I just came back from a beautiful memorial Mass for Declan at the Basilica. All the men of Fisher Hall, the dorm where he lived, wore their Fisher Hall bright green sunglasses. His family was in attendance. And from the choir loft where I sang, to see the Basilica packed beyond its means and to see the Notre Dame community go shoulder to shoulder swaying back and forth to the Alma Mater, it was a service worthy of celebrating Declan's life.

 

[TerryTate]

I lived in fisher hall from '03 to '05. It's a small dorm, but it's a close community. I am sure they represented the ND family well.

 

[Jason Pham]

My brother is in Fisher and they have received every ounce of love the Notre Dame community has been able to muster. I just heard that over 3000 persons were in attendance for tonight's memorial.

 

[PapaIrish37]

I offer my thoughts and prayers for Declan and his family.

Jason, Rack 'Em and all the other IE members on Our Lady's campus - my thoughts and prayers are with you as well.

As someone who has been involved in academia for 30 of the last 33 years, there is no collegiate community quite like the one at Notre Dame.

Two families are missing someone right now - the Sullivans and the Notre Dame Family. Prayers for all.

May Declan RIP.

 

[Jason Pham]

Papa and everyone else: thank you for your thoughts and prayers. It's moments like these where it's never clearer what it means to be a part of the ND family.

I was just told that there were as many people inside the Basilica as there were congregated outside in the cold and wet to be present to the Sullivan family and the rest of the community. Truly moving.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

Wow my thoughts and prayers to family

 

[Old Man Mike]

That's my school...God strengthen the Sullivan family.

 

[dskoo65]

This is a very accurate post. People blaming this on Kelly are ignorant. It is a tragedy that he had practically no control over.

maybe...maybe not.

i found it interesting to hear Jim Tressel speaking on Tuesday, telling reporters he was worried about practicing outside because of high winds in the forecast and expressed concern for the camera crew. he was worried about it even though OSU has permanent towers.....my point being a coach might have an awarenss about such a thing.

why wasnt ANYBODY, other than Declan Sullivan, worried about it here?

 

[tko]

so should brian kelly step down? is that what the media wants? c'mon.

 

[mick2]

man, i don't know what to think, very sad for the family and friends of Declan.