QB Recruiting going forward

Domina Nostra

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It seems to me that ND is at the forefront of the phenomenon that will permanently change QB recruiting for the traditional football powerhouses. With the rise of the transfer portal, most blue chip QB recruits will start picking smaller schools where they can get immediate experience with the explicit intention of transferring later to a better program.

It has always been true that QBs need snaps/PT more than anything else in order to develop. Yet, for the most part, kids have been willing to sit and wait their turn at the traditional power programs because (1) they want to win (i.e., they want the best teammates when it's their turn), (2) those schools can claim to have the best resources for development (coaches, equipment, etc.), and (3) when the current starter's time was up, another QB on the roster took over 95% of the time because other options were both limited and risky (and bad for the lockerroom).

However, #3 is no longer a given. With the portal, proven QBs with an actual track record at the college level are readily available. Because of their game time experience, they are actually less risky (in many cases) than this year's backup or the promising incoming freshman. We all know how much P5 coaches value experience.

When a QB recruit goes to a P5 powerhouse to wait his turn, he is essentially forfeiting the experience that is necessary for his development and that his coaches prize so much in picking a starter. So doesn't it make sense to start at a smaller school where you know you can get PT as a freshman or sophomore?

In effect, the smaller P5 and D1A schools are going to become like AA or Single A teams, that develop QB talent for the blue bloods. With few exceptions, the best QB recruits will start shunning the traditional powers (except for schools with a current QB juru--like Lincoln Riley), and will start going to lesser schools to start their careers. Unless they promise the recruit the starting job, the blue bloods will only be able to recruit lesser talent--essentially game managers to make sure they have an insurance plan if their guy goes down.
 

Lberry

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I think everything you're saying is logical but I still don't see elite HS QBs passing on the top 10 schools because 1) They have immediate NIL and the smaller schools won't 2) They think they're the exception, every time. Every 3 star player thinks they're underrated and NFL bound, imagine what 5-star QBs think.

But the path you lay out is very logical, just don't think that's how it'll play out, IMO.
 

gregm83

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The top 10 per 247 I would argue are going to very large schools. Georgia, FL, bama, Florida state, ND, OSU, PSU, Auburn, Mich, Stanford.
Not sure any stand out from baseline 5-10 years.
I would subjectively think the next group rankings 11-25 are much more appropriate for your theory. I don't follow their recruiting per say but some smaller schools are certainly in there.
I would not think ND will have a huge problem getting one good recruit each year.
 

jprue24

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There is no way a team is going to turn down 3 years of a "known", for annual uncertainty.

Big QBs are still going to big schools where they will get PAID. Late blooming QBs now have the opportunity to move to bigger time college football and make more money.
 

Poopsie

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I am turning my back on college football...NIL and the transfer portal has made this sport a joke
 

TorontoGold

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I am turning my back on college football...NIL and the transfer portal has made this sport a joke
NIL/TP have added another element to the product, which still remains an "entertainment" business.

Having the "developed" talent spread out a bit more has certainly helped with the entertainment side of things. Seeing teams like UW/Oregon make runs with transfer pieces has been good for the sport. For many outside of the top 3/4 having your Top 100 QB not pan out kills the program's chances, think of UW with Sam Huard - if they had to rely on him to carry the program they wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs this year.

The top teams will always stick their dick on the table and get who they want. Having a more competitive top 25 (IMO) is better for entertainment. Having incredible player movement and the separation of the haves and have nots hasn't killed the most popular sport in the world. No sport will succeed with artificial parity and subjective restrictions (See - NHL and how Gary Bettman has killed it).
 

jprue24

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I watch more college football than I ever had before.

Never sat right with me that millions and millions were made off of the blood, sweat, and tears of "student athletes". THEN I discovered that "student athlete" was a term invented by universities to avoid treating athletes like employees. What a fucking rachet huh?
Knowing that adults playing football for a university can now make money from their own name, or their image, or their likeness feels like...freedom? Also knowing that athletes are no longer locked in to a choice they made as a teenager makes me feel better about cfb as a whole.


More freedom, less exploitations. It's awesome.
 
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Giddyup

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Let’s be honest, u probably just started gambling more on it.
 

irishff1014

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NIL/TP have added another element to the product, which still remains an "entertainment" business.

Having the "developed" talent spread out a bit more has certainly helped with the entertainment side of things. Seeing teams like UW/Oregon make runs with transfer pieces has been good for the sport. For many outside of the top 3/4 having your Top 100 QB not pan out kills the program's chances, think of UW with Sam Huard - if they had to rely on him to carry the program they wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs this year.

The top teams will always stick their dick on the table and get who they want. Having a more competitive top 25 (IMO) is better for entertainment. Having incredible player movement and the separation of the haves and have nots hasn't killed the most popular sport in the world. No sport will succeed with artificial parity and subjective restrictions (See - NHL and how Gary Bettman has killed it).

The only thing it’s going to do is make the cost of tickets and events go up.
 

Poopsie

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I watch more college football than I ever had before.

Never sat right with me that millions and millions were made off of the blood, sweat, and tears of "student athletes". THEN I discovered that "student athlete" was a term invented by universities to avoid treating athletes like employees. What a fucking rachet huh?
Knowing that adults playing football for a university can now make money from their own name, or their image, or their likeness feels like...freedom? Also knowing that athletes are no longer locked in to a choice they made as a teenager makes me feel better about cfb as a whole.


More freedom, less exploitations. It's awesome.
I understand and appreciate your point of view
 

MacIrish75

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There’s a fairly significant part of me that loves the excitement of the transfer portal. Free agency is one of the best times of the offseason in the MLB and hope springs eternal. Lord knows at least ND has hit on bringing in more quality free agents than the White Sox have.

Swarbrick/Jenkins > Reinsdorf
 

LifelongFan

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The only thing it’s going to do is make the cost of tickets and events go up.
As anyone who had season tickets to Notre Dame ever can attest to, that was already happening. Cost of live entertainment has skyrocketed across the board over the last decade. Concert tickets probably even moreso than sporting events, and I don't think that has anything to do with Name, Image, and Likeness. Prices went up when the data came back that millennials spend more on experiences instead of physical possessions than previous generations.
 

Giddyup

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As anyone who had season tickets to Notre Dame ever can attest to, that was already happening. Cost of live entertainment has skyrocketed across the board over the last decade. Concert tickets probably even moreso than sporting events, and I don't think that has anything to do with Name, Image, and Likeness. Prices went up when the data came back that millennials spend more on experiences instead of physical possessions than previous generations. It
Like food and a house?
 

TorontoGold

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The only thing it’s going to do is make the cost of tickets and events go up.
That's what you got from my post? How are collectives going to drive up the cost of the tickets that the University is going to charge.

Please explain this type of thinking.
 

irishff1014

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That's what you got from my post? How are collectives going to drive up the cost of the tickets that the University is going to charge.

Please explain this type of thinking.

Just one of the items that I got out your post.

I understand that college football is an entertainment group just like any other sport for the average fan.

But in order to have a more competitive team is going to require money. Money to always expand facilities and then the payment of players. To keep that competitive nature is going to cost you.
 

LifelongFan

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Like food and a house?

According to the US Labor Department, inflation on "live performing admission events" is 2.6 percentage points more than headline inflation, as of June 2023, when grocery inflation was below headline inflation. Housing is its own beast, which is probably way more complex than any other kind of inflation.
 

TorontoGold

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Just one of the items that I got out your post.

I understand that college football is an entertainment group just like any other sport for the average fan.

But in order to have a more competitive team is going to require money. Money to always expand facilities and then the payment of players. To keep that competitive nature is going to cost you.
How do ticket prices figure into this. You stated ticket costs will go up.

How do ticket prices correlate to outside fundraising for NIL collectives or facility expansions?
 

T-Boone

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How do ticket prices figure into this. You stated ticket costs will go up.

How do ticket prices correlate to outside fundraising for NIL collectives or facility expansions?
Bigger NIL will mean better players, better players equals more wins, which equals more demand for seats. Bidding wars will erupt.
 

stlnd01

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Bigger NIL will mean better players, better players equals more wins, which equals more demand for seats. Bidding wars will erupt.
Is that how it works in baseball?

Seriously. I'm not sure. It's an interesting question. The teams with the highest ticket prices - like my beloved Red Sox - tend to also be ones with higher payrolls. But they also tend to be in more affluent markets and have larger fan bases. I'm not sure how much those ticket prices are really driven by wins on the field creating more demand, so much as they're what the team thinks the market will bear. If anything, higher ticket prices drive fan demand that the teams invest more in players to win. So is it the chicken or the egg?

Regardless I'm not sure how much this applies to college football, where most fans are fans of a team for more tribal reasons than simple winning/losing. And where attendance broadly has been slumping for years. Demand/prices are still high for the biggest games. Not so much for the lesser ones.
 

IrishLax

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Of the top 10 QBs on 247 in the '21 class, something like 8 of them transferred. Only McCarthy and one other (can't remember who off the top of my head... maybe Drake Maye?) are at their original school. Many of them were very successful at their new school (e.g. Ewers, Caleb Williams, etc.). The new reality is twofold:
1. Schools with the resources will go after the best proven QB in the portal every year. Does not matter who else is on the roster.
2. Schools with a guy they really believe in will play them early and try to retain them for ~3 years.

Guys who get passed over either need to stay and wait for an opportunity or make a move... but they will have lower value and generally need to "downgrade" to a lower tier school (e.g. Drew Pyne to ASU, DJ U. to Oregon State, etc.). The $$ for QBs coming out of HS will plummet relative to the first few years of NIL because that money will be spent on portal guys OR retaining your proven starter.
 

NDFAN2008

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Look around zero schools are developing QB's right now it's guys bouncing around year after year trying to find a better fit or schools looking for the next best thing. You can have a 3500 yard passer and get pushed out for someone else.
 

BleedBlueGold

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Of the top 10 QBs on 247 in the '21 class, something like 8 of them transferred. Only McCarthy and one other (can't remember who off the top of my head... maybe Drake Maye?) are at their original school. Many of them were very successful at their new school (e.g. Ewers, Caleb Williams, etc.). The new reality is twofold:
1. Schools with the resources will go after the best proven QB in the portal every year. Does not matter who else is on the roster.
2. Schools with a guy they really believe in will play them early and try to retain them for ~3 years.

Guys who get passed over either need to stay and wait for an opportunity or make a move... but they will have lower value and generally need to "downgrade" to a lower tier school (e.g. Drew Pyne to ASU, DJ U. to Oregon State, etc.). The $$ for QBs coming out of HS will plummet relative to the first few years of NIL because that money will be spent on portal guys OR retaining your proven starter.

ND basically validating this take with their NIL philosophy. We as fans who follow recruiting may hate not getting the 5* kids out of highschool, but ND putting up money for veterans makes far more sense from ROI perspective.
 

Irishman77

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Takes time fix Rees QB room! Last two years we are back on track with Carr and Knight. Gotta go the rental route until they are ready.

The future is bright!
 

thekid33

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Many of them were very successful at their new school (e.g. Ewers, Caleb Williams, etc.). The new reality is twofold:
What's interesting, is that it seems like most of the transfers needed Year #2 in the new system to really thrive. Penix, Ewers and Nix were all much better this season compared to last season. Williams was playing for the same coach in the same system, so he was able to thrive right away.

1 year rentals may not be the best call. It certainly isn't something that schools should be doing almost every year. Hopefully the 1 year rental trend as ND is just a bridge to get us to the home grown talent taking over.
 

NDRock

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What's interesting, is that it seems like most of the transfers needed Year #2 in the new system to really thrive. Penix, Ewers and Nix were all much better this season compared to last season. Williams was playing for the same coach in the same system, so he was able to thrive right away.

1 year rentals may not be the best call. It certainly isn't something that schools should be doing almost every year. Hopefully the 1 year rental trend as ND is just a bridge to get us to the home grown talent taking over.
Add Burrow and Jaden Daniels to that as well. Although most quarterbacks probably get better with more reps. Somehow Notre Dame quarterbacks under Kelly never got better (and often regressed) in their 2nd year of being a starter.
 

Irish#1

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I wouldn't be surprised if in three years, NIL and the portal don't resemble what we see today. Coaches getting fired during the season shows the heat is getting turned up and IMO, that means coaches will be willing to take a chance on a portal QB more than developing their own.

While I don't blame kids for transferring if they want to, I see it degrading the relationship some between the fan and the team. We follow these kids as they're being recruited up through them graduating. There's a certain connection we develop that to me was art of what makes CFB great. Even with Sam and how he ingrained himself to the team and university, it just felt a little different with him.
 
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