Protest Erupts In Charlotte

GoIrish41

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Innovation predates government. So you're demonstrably wrong.

There's a reason that Silicon Valley is one of the most libertarian parts of the country. Government stifles innovation.

Nobody said all innovation was the result of government, but that government has spearheaded the most rapid technological advancement in world history that is the foundation for private sector innovation.
 

kmoose

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Nobody said all innovation was the result of government, but that government has spearheaded the most rapid technological advancement in world history that is the foundation for private sector innovation.

No............. this whole line of discussion got started with this:

And, for those misguided who can only repeat the mantra free capitalism, I ask you, if we had an economy that only favored this mantra, how would we ever move to a more technically advanced economy, without the pain of warfare requiring advances?

So people started offering up examples of innovation that came out of things unrelated to warfare. Then YOU tried to turn this into a "Government funding" discussion.... stop trying to move the goalposts.
 

IrishBroker

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yankeehater;1793923[B said:
]What I have not seen discussed is that most of these suspects were repeat offenders? [/B] I live in the ultimate suburbia and we have a situation with someone in our neighborhood where the police have been called out no less than ten times. He has been convicted of at least one felony. With laws like Prop. 47 out here it seems like it is almost impossible to put someone away. The police called it "Cite and Release." You steal something and the law has them issue a ticket now. We are frustrated as a community and speaking with the police they are EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED. We are hearing them say, "we are doing everything we legally can, it is up to the system." They know this guy by name, his address, etc. I can sense they have lost their patience with him. I am not saying it will end in a shooting, but I can see each visit escalating with the way they are handling him.

Nearly all of them do. At some point, your luck will run out
 

pkt77242

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North Carolina has strict video realease laws. It basically can only release the footage regarding the people involved. That being said one of the people involved is dead and the police rarely release video footage. I would not hold your breath on the public getting to see the footage.

So the opposite of transparency. Awesome.
 

BleedBlueGold

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That's exactly correct. Systematic police racism (in 2016) has been statistically proven to be an absolute myth. Controlling to compare apples to apples, police are more likely to shoot a white suspect than a black suspect.

Didn't the DOJ find widespread systemic racism in the Ferguson PD? Not saying it's everywhere, but it does happen. It's not an "absolute myth."
 

wizards8507

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Nobody said all innovation was the result of government, but that government has spearheaded the most rapid technological advancement in world history that is the foundation for private sector innovation.
Yes, Bogs said exactly that, which is how this whole thing started.

And, for those misguided who can only repeat the mantra free capitalism, I ask you, if we had an economy that only favored this mantra, how would we ever move to a more technically advanced economy, without the pain of warfare requiring advances?
 

Irish Insanity

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But they won't release the video...

I find it odd that the cops have a video that shows that Scott had a gun in his hand but they won't release it. What is gained by not releasing it? What is there to hide?
What's even more odd is they allowed the family to view it and the family is still calling for it to be released. If he's clearly holding a gun why would they continue the narrative of him being murdered while holding a book after they watched a video of him holding a gun.
 

wizards8507

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Didn't the DOJ find widespread systemic racism in the Ferguson PD? Not saying it's everywhere, but it does happen. It's not an "absolute myth."
The DOJ report focused exclusively on police interaction as a function of population size, which is irrelevant. Obviously the numbers are not this extreme, but the DOJ methodology would conclude that a PD is racist if 60% arrests are of black people in a community where black people make up 50% of the population but commit 90% of the crime.

The relevant comparative proportion when talking about police interactions is the crime rate of a given demographic rather than population numbers.
 

IrishBroker

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Didn't the DOJ find widespread systemic racism in the Ferguson PD? Not saying it's everywhere, but it does happen. It's not an "absolute myth."

Define racism within a PD?

Singling out one or two racist cops doesn't mean an entire PD is racist. Nor do incidents involving black residents. And are we really using email jokes (bad taste, yes) as proof of rampant racism? But don't tell the media that. See below.

"One woman has paid $550 on what was original a $151 fine for two parking tickets -- and, more than seven years later, she still owes $541.

The police also let dogs loose on residents, sometimes without warning.

One 14-year-old African-American boy said he was waiting for his friends at a house, unarmed, when police released a dog that bit his ankle, thigh and arm.

Harassment was also a common occurrence.

An African-American man was cooling off in his car after playing basketball in a public park in Ferguson, Missouri, in 2012 when a police officer approached him and accused him of being a pedophile."


^I wouldn't define ANY of that as racism...yet this is what CNN put on their website and presented it as such. All while ignoring the demographics (70% black). It's absurd.
 
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GoIrish41

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I've actually been thinking about this, and have to ask a question:

If the crime rate for African American's was that of other races, do you believe that police brutality would also decrease?

In 2010, Charlotte was 67% white, 22% black.

The percentage of homicides was 48% committed by blacks, 27% whites.

Rapes were about equal.

Couldn't find other violent crimes.

Just this problem in a hypothetical vacuum:

1.) Officers are going to engage African American's more often due to the percentage of violent crimes committed.

2.) Let's face it, and the situation in Charlotte MAY be a case of this (that's a huge leap, I know), when you're an office, and the vast percentage of violent offenders are of one race, what is your reaction going to be when confronted with a potentially hostile situation with that race? Even the perception of a confrontation would be warped, creating a "hostile" situation of much less given the percentages.

If the crime rate is reduced, would police "brutality" follow suit?

Now we are getting somewhere! Only this as far as we ever go on the topic. Dig deeper ... why is the African American homicide rate larger? What are the human factors behind this statistic? Are there genetic deficiencies that cause violent tendencies? Some think so. I tend to believe that those people are unintelligent bigots who have convinced themselves that the first possible answer is the right answer. See David Duke.

Is it the "second class citizen" perception that always lingers around those who look different and the indifference that follows that sort of thinking. That could explain a lot ... why predominately black neighborhoods tend to have poorer schools, fewer opportunities, lower living conditions. Generations of indifference that carries such results would lead all of our families into despair. It would lead all of us to find alternative ways outside societal norms to make our way in the world. Unfortunately that leads to pursuits that fall outside the law ... even those that involve violence.

This problem is so much more complex than simply rounding people up and incarcerating them. Never mind the twisted policy of privatizing prisons and creating incentives to keep the pump churning. We have to take a hard look at the root causes, not just pat ourselves on the back for being "the law and order candidate" or the "tough on crime party." That BS has led to 2.2 million people behind bars and a bigger bill than just fixing the problems at the core. Our approach to this problem is flawed and only leads to perpetual problems moving forward.

I've always found that if you treat people right, give them a fair shake, provide pathways to self improvement and an environment conducive to self improvement, they are more likely trust and respect you or to to conform your rules. Treat people like crap and consign them to hopelessness, they will not trust you. They will not respect you. They are less likely to seek your approval or to conform to your standards.

And before anyone suggests that I am coddling criminals, know that I am for strict punishments for violent criminals. I just believe we'd have far fewer if we would have true equality in this country and weren't so quick to demonize any group, especially those who have never been on equal footing in our land of opportunity.
 

wizards8507

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Now we are getting somewhere! Only this as far as we ever go on the topic. Dig deeper ... why is the African American homicide rate larger? What are the human factors behind this statistic? Are there genetic deficiencies that cause violent tendencies? Some think so. I tend to believe that those people are unintelligent bigots who have convinced themselves that the first possible answer is the right answer. See David Duke.
David Duke? Come on, man. If you're going to credibly claim that America itself is an unfair or unjust place in 2016, you're going to have to do a lot better than picking the most fringe extremist who represents exactly 0.0% of the population. Your assessment of the American psyche is about 200 years out of date.

And before anyone suggests that I am coddling criminals, know that I am for strict punishments for violent criminals. I just believe we'd have far fewer if we would have true equality in this country and weren't so quick to demonize any group, especially those who have never been on equal footing in our land of opportunity.
Again, nobody on the right except for an extreme fringe demonizes any group because the entire perspective of the right (or classical left) is based on the primacy of the individual. Groups are irrelevant, they're just a way politicians skew statistics to support their agenda. If there is a high crime rate in a particular black neighborhood, it's not the black neighborhood that's the problem. It's the criminals who live their. The neighborhood itself is nothing more than the sum of the individuals who live there and I don't think a high crime predominantly black neighborhood is any different than a high crime predominantly white neighborhood. It's probably poverty that's the causal factor in both cases, not "demonziation" from the outside world.
 

GoIrish41

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David Duke? Come on, man. If you're going to credibly claim that America itself is an unfair or unjust place in 2016, you're going to have to do a lot better than picking the most fringe extremist who represents exactly 0.0% of the population. Your assessment of the American psyche is about 200 years out of date.


Again, nobody on the right except for an extreme fringe demonizes any group because the entire perspective of the right (or classical left) is based on the primacy of the individual. Groups are irrelevant, they're just a way politicians skew statistics to support their agenda. If there is a high crime rate in a particular black neighborhood, it's not the black neighborhood that's the problem. It's the criminals who live their. The neighborhood itself is nothing more than the sum of the individuals who live there and I don't think a high crime predominantly black neighborhood is any different than a high crime predominantly white neighborhood. It's probably poverty that's the causal factor in both cases, not "demonziation" from the outside world.

The republican candidate for president of the United States has said some pretty bigoted shit and that seems ok with half the country, so I'd say my assessment is fairly timely. He demonizes Muslims, Mexicans and blacks ... All groups of people. Stop and frisk nationwide or later corrected to just Chicago is a recipe for racial profiling ... not criminal profiling, but racial profiling. Telling Americans that black neighborhoods are more dangerous than Afghanistan? C'mon man. That sounds like he's talking about the places where people live, assigning fault to those who live there for the problems that exist.
 

GATTACA!

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The republican candidate for president of the United States has said some pretty bigoted shit and that seems ok with half the country, so I'd say my assessment is fairly timely. He demonizes Muslims, Mexicans and blacks ... All groups of people. Stop and frisk nationwide or later corrected to just Chicago is a recipe for racial profiling ... not criminal profiling, but racial profiling. Telling Americans that black neighborhoods are more dangerous than Afghanistan? C'mon man. That sounds like he's talking about the places where people live, assigning fault to those who live there for the problems that exist.

That doesn't mean he thinks black people are genetically stupid and that's why their communities are being destroyed by crime. That's such a strawman argument, no one with half a brain believes African Americans are genetically deficient.
 

wizards8507

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The republican candidate for president of the United States has said some pretty bigoted shit and that seems ok with half the country, so I'd say my assessment is fairly timely. He demonizes Muslims, Mexicans and blacks ... All groups of people. Stop and frisk nationwide or later corrected to just Chicago is a recipe for racial profiling ... not criminal profiling, but racial profiling. Telling Americans that black neighborhoods are more dangerous than Afghanistan? C'mon man. That sounds like he's talking about the places where people live, assigning fault to those who live there for the problems that exist.
You're hearing what you want to hear. Open your mind a bit.

1. Muslims - Radical Islam is an ideology at war with Western Civilization. You don't combat radical Islam by monitoring the Jewish or Italian neighborhoods. Policing in a world with limited resources requires prioritization based on risk. To pretend otherwise is to jeopardize lives in the name of political correctness.

2. Mexicans - Trump's comments were about illegal immigrants. Illegal immigration is not a race, it's a behavior. You're the one being racist if you equate "illegal immigrant" with "brown skinned person." Trump's stance on illegal immigration would apply to a French guy who overstayed his Visa and would not apply to a legal immigrant from Mexico. Thus, neither racist nor bigoted.

3. Trump was not telling white Americans that black neighborhoods are dangerous as a criticism of black neighborhoods. Trump was telling black Americans that black neighborhoods are dangerous as a criticism of Democrat policies, which have prevailed in these neighborhoods for decades and haven't helped anyone.

4. Trump often says things in ways that are unpolished. I don't think he's spent much time with minorities in his life, nor with poor or working class people of any race. I don't think his lack of tact in that regard should be construed as bigoted.

5. I do not support Trump.
 

GoIrish41

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That doesn't mean he thinks black people are genetically stupid and that's why their communities are being destroyed by crime. That's such a strawman argument, no one with half a brain believes African Americans are genetically deficient.

I didn't say he thought that. But there are plenty of people who do.
 

Woneone

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The republican candidate for president of the United States has said some pretty bigoted shit and that seems ok with half the country, so I'd say my assessment is fairly timely. He demonizes Muslims, Mexicans and blacks ... All groups of people. Stop and frisk nationwide or later corrected to just Chicago is a recipe for racial profiling ... not criminal profiling, but racial profiling. Telling Americans that black neighborhoods are more dangerous than Afghanistan? C'mon man. That sounds like he's talking about the places where people live, assigning fault to those who live there for the problems that exist.

I guess my problem with this is we attribute designations based on statistics ( or our perception of reality at the time).

Currently, there is a problem with the Muslim religion and it's (very small, but still) population being radicalized compared to other religions (I have no idea what the percentage compared to other religions is) .

Currently, black communities, and quite frankly based on statistics, blacks have a violent crime problem compared to other races.

Stop and Frist is effectively racial profiling, but it's deterrence to crime rates, or maybe more specifically how it skyrockets in the policies absence, can't be ignored (and catch 22, neither can the racial profiling).

This idea that he demonizes entire groups of people is a bit of hyperbole. He demonizes the minority based on the topic at hand, but I don't think he's said "All Muslims are Terrorists, all blacks are violent." This "SEE! He hates you!!!" line of thinking is just political crap. He's an idiot, but he's as much David Duke as Hillary is for "Deplorable" or the predator comment she made about blacks years ago.

How is the "demonizing" of law enforcement any different?
 

GATTACA!

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They are Trump's base, man. Without them he has no shot at winning.

Hold on


So you're actually saying that you believe Trump's base of support is white people that believe that black people are genetically deficient?


Come on
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Nobody said all innovation was the result of government, but that government has spearheaded the most rapid technological advancement in world history that is the foundation for private sector innovation.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha
 

GoIrish41

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Hold on


So you're actually saying that you believe Trump's base of support is white people that believe that black people are genetically deficient?


Come on

That's not what I am saying. Being a racist or demonstrating indifference to racism and actively supporting a candidate who is a racist .... there isn't a whole lot of difference there to me.
 
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wizards8507

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Being a racist or demonstrating indifference to racism and actively supporting a candidate who is a racist .... there isn't a whole lot of difference there to me.
You still haven't provided a single shred of evidence that Donald Trump is racist other than the fact that David Duke supports him. David Duke might like The Beatles too, but that doesn't make Sir Paul racist.
 

GoIrish41

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You still haven't provided a single shred of evidence that Donald Trump is racist other than the fact that David Duke supports him. David Duke might like The Beatles too, but that doesn't make Sir Paul racist.

Do you really need me to provide examples of Trump being a racist? Have you not been paying attention for the last year .... the last 30 years? Read back though the thread, man. The dude is a racist. He has the alt right. idiot from Breitbart running his campaign, for Christ sakes.
 

wizards8507

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Do you really need me to provide examples of Trump being a racist? Have you not been paying attention for the last year .... the last 30 years? Read back though the thread, man. The dude is a racist. He has the alt right. idiot from Breitbart running his campaign, for Christ sakes.
So no.
 

wizards8507

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Let me know if you need more. There are literally hundreds of articles on Trump's racism available.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...53b65c809eb_story.html?utm_term=.47bb97b6d92b

Voters See Trump As a Racist Madman. He May Win Anyway.
If there are literally hundreds of examples, this shouldn't be hard for you.

Tell me one single solitary fact that indicates that Donald Trump is a racist. Your left-wing writers crying "Donald Trump is a raaaaaacist" is not evidence of shit.

All you need is one sentence. Not a link. One statement of fact.
 

GoIrish41

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If there are literally hundreds of examples, this shouldn't be hard for you.

Tell me one single solitary fact that indicates that Donald Trump is a racist. Your left-wing writers crying "Donald Trump is a raaaaaacist" is not evidence of shit.

All you need is one sentence. Not a link. One statement of fact.

He blocked blacks from renting apartments in his buildings. There. One fact. As I said. There are literally hundreds of examples.
 

wizards8507

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He blocked blacks from renting apartments in his buildings. There. One fact. As I said. There are literally hundreds of examples.
Holy shit. That was A) 1973 and B) settled out of court with no decision of guilt. If that's how you define racism, fine. Trump is a racist. However, if that's your definition of racist, Mrs. Clinton is far worse than a racist.
 
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